Nerf Bowquest 99

[Twainz]

Why am I able to do this much damage this fast on a Troll Warrior with a Weighted Axe. I'm legit a machine gun fighting kids with knives.

[Mon Dec 21 23:16:05 2020] You hit Symbiotic for 139 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:07 2020] You can't see your target from here.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:09 2020] Your feet move faster.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:10 2020] You think you are heading SouthWest.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:11 2020] Your target resisted the Spirit Strike spell.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:14 2020] You hit Gstring for 132 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:16 2020] Gstring was hit by non-melee for 54 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:16 2020] Gstring staggers as spirits of frost slam against them.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:16 2020] You hit Gstring for 134 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:17 2020] Your target resisted the Spirit Strike spell.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:20 2020] You hit Gstring for 111 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:20 2020] Your target resisted the Spirit Strike spell.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:21 2020] You hit Gstring for 142 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:21 2020] Your target resisted the Spirit Strike spell.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:24 2020] Meatwad Scores a critical hit!(40)
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:24 2020] You hit Gstring for 150 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:24 2020] Your target resisted the Spirit Strike spell.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:25 2020] You hit Gstring for 162 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:25 2020] You slow down.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:25 2020] Your target resisted the Spirit Strike spell.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:26 2020] You hit Gstring for 159 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:29 2020] You hit Gstring for 131 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:29 2020] Your target is too close to use a ranged weapon!!
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:30 2020] Deighre lets loose a piercing blast.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:31 2020] Your target is too close to use a ranged weapon!!
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:31 2020] Baugi begins to cast a spell.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:33 2020] Deighre's song ends abruptly.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:34 2020] You try to hit Gstring, but miss!
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:34 2020] Baugi's casting is interrupted!
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:35 2020] You hit Gstring for 133 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:37 2020] You try to hit Gstring, but miss!
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:38 2020] Gstring was hit by non-melee for 54 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:38 2020] Gstring staggers as spirits of frost slam against them.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:38 2020] You hit Gstring for 132 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:38 2020] Deighre lets loose a piercing blast.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:39 2020] You try to hit Gstring, but miss!
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:40 2020] You hit Gstring for 113 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:41 2020] Your target resisted the Spirit Strike spell.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:42 2020] You hit Gstring for 153 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:43 2020] You hit Gstring for 111 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:44 2020] You hit Gstring for 141 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:46 2020] You try to hit Gstring, but miss!
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:47 2020] You hit Gstring for 118 points of damage.

[Baugi]

Already posted here - https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=370070
and here - https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=374280
(by other members of <Apex>)

Please stop spamming the bug forum with new threads.

[Gustoo]

Nice to see the log. Looks really fun I can't believe its been this way for so long.

[Jeni]

We should brainstorm a way for blue players to abuse this and then post it over there so it will actually get looked at and fixed by the devs. They don't even open any forum with the word red or pvp in the title.

[Jibartik]

Its easy to fix but shutting off the box :o

[Gustoo]

We should brainstorm a way for blue players to abuse this and then post it over there so it will actually get looked at and fixed by the devs. They don't even open any forum with the word red or pvp in the title.

Well for 1 an SK can be a vastly overpowered bow kiter. Is it possible that this could circumvent the damage cap below level 30 so a big boy could use a weighted axe, a fast bow and be bowing NPC's for 100's, sub level 30?

And also, I think you are right with your creative solution to this problem. Thing is even if fixed is developed it might not get applied to red. Like how red still can't duck to instant interrupt spells despite being timeline appropriate to be able to do so, and like how green never had that ability taken from them, despite the timeline saying that they should not be able to cancel spell casts with ducks.

=/ so you can't count on your trick working, but its a good trick anyways.

Anyone got a blue toon to test, and then post results? Almost no one even equips a weighted axe on blue (or green) so there is a good chance no one has ever used a bow and arrow with it equipped, and if they did its a small chance they noticed the relationship between the bow damage and the use of the axe. Only on PVP do the limits of the game actually get explored, because they actually matter :( thanks for being the good R&D team red players.

[Baugi]

It's not super relevant for PVE because your hit rate goes way down. The underlying issue for PVP is the non-classic dex-based accuracy formula which does weird things at the high end. Unfortunately, I don't think we have any era-appropriate logs to recommend a new formula (and the current one is fairly opaque).

[Gustoo]

The delay of your main hand weapon impacts bow damage.

You can use the lowest delay bow you can get your hands on, and your minimum hit is still over 100 when using a weighted axe.

So to abuse this in PVE you would be bow kiting with an ogre warrior or something.

My question about the base bow damage with a weighted axe could be most impactful if you can exceed level damage caps on sub 20 or sub 30 characters it would be pretty powerful.

But no one is testing it right now. I could ALMOST go test it on blue assuming someone in EC has a weighted axe to sell me. But golly gee, I might just not get around to it!

Maybe though. Wednesday is my free day.

[Mortdecai99]

...red still can't duck to instant interrupt spells despite being timeline appropriate to be able to do so...
yes you can

[Zipity]

Does this effect throwing items too?

[Zipity]

Haha ranger using trueshot with a bow of destroyer 10/17 + earth shaker(70 delay) sounds super fun.

[Baugi]

can exceed level damage caps on sub 20 or sub 30 characters it would be pretty powerful.

The damage bonus is still level capped.

[Twainz]

Sustained 82 Damage Per Second on Trakanon. Seems like good output for an Troll Warrior.

[Baugi]

Sustained 82 Damage Per Second on Trakanon. Seems like good output for an Troll Warrior.

You should hit up Dpswarrior for some tips. He used to top the Apex charts with standard warrior melee. 82dps on Trakanon is honestly really bad.

For context, my last three Trakanon parses with a budget rogue were 152, 141, and 164dps. 82 is notably less than my dps without backstab even. Short duration + low ac = high dps.

I realize you're just being scummy and trying to push your agenda, but your lack of min/max offends me.

[Kief]

bump this needs to be fixed please nilbog brother

[Gustoo]

The damage bonus is still level capped.

Thank you for that.

[Elven_Wine_Abuse]

Weighted Axe + Bow probably means you're going THREE slots with NO STATS. Just MR debuff and most of your problems will be solved.

Primary - weighted axe (no stats)
Secondary - empty (no stats)
Ranged - Most peoples bows (no stats)

Arrows are finite. In a large pvp battle, you'll run out of arrows in a couple of minutes. The problem all these <Apex> people are complaining about solves itself in a couple of minutes. Think about that.

This has made the barrier to entry into endgame pvp much easier, allowing new player to participate without requiring multiple years of uncontested ToV gear farming and a legacy character to compete.

Changing this heavily favors <Apex> and nobody else. (the people who've made multiple threads on it) They mostly just log in for raids, and have never accepted or pushed for rules changes that don't directly benefit themselves.

A great example of this is how they pulled out of RED UN. They like when others get punished but when they start screwing up training peoples raids, they refuse to cooperate or take responsibility. The toxic people you hear about on Blue. It's <Apex>

[Gustoo]

First I’ve seen defense of broken mechanic. Stack the arrows deep on bodies if you run 6 bags of arrows they last a while

6x10x20 that’s 1200 arrows that’s 120,000 damage dealt with no misses. Not bad

[Elven_Wine_Abuse]

First I’ve seen defense of broken mechanic. Stack the arrows deep on bodies if you run 6 bags of arrows they last a while

6x10x20 that’s 1200 arrows that’s 120,000 damage dealt with no misses. Not bad

I suppose if you don't run a bag full of resist gear to swap on, bank all your keys, run no cure potions, calimony potions, golem wands, pumice, gate pots, reagents for spells, weapons, clickies, gear for various occasions, and no quiver. There's really not that much room for most people.

You're talking 6 bags no pumice status. Get real.

[Gustoo]

2 bags is 40,000 damage not accounting for misses. You can do this all day long with no mana and your guildies can carry extra stacks of arrows or even fletching supplies for you. I think the mechanic sounds like great fun. I wish it didn't favor big races only because this dumb game favors them at every possible turn from Slam to Throwing boulders and now broken bow and arrow mechanic.

There is no possible argument to leave this in the game since it is fully unclassic and not intended, but I do think it sounds awesome.

QUESTION: For Weak ass Paladins and SK's with this broken mechanic are they putting down as much arrow damage as Warriors and Rogues using same techniques? I don't know how archery works here, does the 75 skill cap impact misses? Like a warrior misses less than a paladin or does it effect damage, therefore warriors and rogues have no advantage in bow and arrow right now?

[Disease]

2 bags is 40,000 damage not accounting for misses. You can do this all day long with no mana and your guildies can carry extra stacks of arrows or even fletching supplies for you. I think the mechanic sounds like great fun. I wish it didn't favor big races only because this dumb game favors them at every possible turn from Slam to Throwing boulders and now broken bow and arrow mechanic.

There is no possible argument to leave this in the game since it is fully unclassic and not intended, but I do think it sounds awesome.

QUESTION: For Weak ass Paladins and SK's with this broken mechanic are they putting down as much arrow damage as Warriors and Rogues using same techniques? I don't know how archery works here, does the 75 skill cap impact misses? Like a warrior misses less than a paladin or does it effect damage, therefore warriors and rogues have no advantage in bow and arrow right now?

Paladins cant use a weighted axe.

[Gustoo]

Sorry, yeah. So how do SK's stack up against the warriors and rogues with this + their low skill?

How about a paladin with an earthshaker, what is minimum hit in that situation?

[Tigerstyle Wutangfist]

Damage bonus is calculable based on delay and is applies as a flat increase in damage

At player level 60
Weighted Axe = 110 (bis large war/sk)
Gromlok's Basher = 66 (bis non-large war/sk)
Earthshaker = 56 (bis pal/rng)
OT Hammer = 42 (rog)

[Gustoo]

Thanks for taking the time Tigerstyle, really appreciate that.

I finally understand the problem. There is a damage bonus that applies based on weapon delay, which was intentional (sort of) but it is applying to all player melee attacks including bows?

Does it have a positive impact on kick too?

Just wondering to bolster my own knowledge of the game mechanics.

[Abominog]

Damage bonus is calculable based on delay and is applies as a flat increase in damage

At player level 60
Weighted Axe = 110 (bis large war/sk)
Gromlok's Basher = 66 (bis non-large war/sk)
Earthshaker = 56 (bis pal/rng)
OT Hammer = 42 (rog)

But what about ranger double damage against nonrooted? and trueshot?

[Zipity]

But what about ranger double damage against nonrooted? and trueshot?

Yes rangers getting a big dmg bonus to ranged weapons will do more damage. I hope this helps.

[Tigerstyle Wutangfist]

Damage bonus does not factor into multipliers the same way as regular damage. That's why its a "bonus" or "flat".

The best way to see this in effect is when a warrior Critical Hits. The crit will say 55 DMG, but the actual hit is 63 DMG. The bonus dmg was applied after and not reflected in the global message.

[furiesenvy]

Damage bonus is calculable based on delay and is applies as a flat increase in damage

At player level 60
Weighted Axe = 110 (bis large war/sk)
Gromlok's Basher = 66 (bis non-large war/sk)
Earthshaker = 56 (bis pal/rng)
OT Hammer = 42 (rog)


You forgot Mroon's toy
2hb
20-70 delay
war shd shm
bar dwf trl ogr iks

according to wiki its a rare drop of named cyclops in S. karana, but it drops everytime in my experience

[Gustoo]

It looks like the mroon's toy is the best for Iksars (all) and Dwarf Warriors

Thanks for completing the list of best items to use with bowhax.

[Botten]

Ok I just want to put this in perspective:

1. There are 4 items that break bow damage; they are:
Weighted Axe only usable by Warriors & Shadow Knights and Ogres & Trolls
Gromlok's Basher but it is only an 85 delay compared to the 150 delay on the Weighted Axe, can only be used by Warriors & Shadow Knights; most if not all races
Mroon's Toy which is only a 70 delay compared to the 85 delay on the Gromlok's Basher, can only be used... by again Warriors & Shadows (shamans can't use a bow so they are out); but it allows dwarf and Barbarian warriors to wield it.
Earthshaker which is a 70 delay but has the perk that it can finally be used by a ranger and palladin ... AND all races can use it... Sadly the last one sold was on January 3rd of 2020 (according to the wiki) and it isn't exactly too abundant.

2. Fletching and arrows are limited on Warriors, Shadow Knights and Palladins. And unless you pester a mage for summoned arrows all the time you really don't have a means to abuse it in normal setting.

3. Ranger's could use the Earthshaker at a 70 delay and summoned arrow and could bow kite (something already done when soloing) but they will never be as good as they were in Luclin. But then there is the other perspective of this a Ranger gets double attack and arguably could do more damage in melee when well geared. And their bow discipline is on a 45 minute cool down.

I guess you could argue that Shadow Knight & Warrior while being an Ogre & Troll get the most realist damage increase but are limited by arrows or being the tank for the group.

There was a post on this thread stating:
"Sustained 82 Damage Per Second on Trakanon. Seems like good output for an Troll Warrior."
Realistically, This isn't destroying rogue, monk and wizard's damage.

So then that leaves PvP where it is being abused in which it is upsetting some of the population of Red Server.

I am sure the devs will remove the additional damage added by delay to bow and thrown damage

......... but it doesn't look like it is a shutdown the server and patch need.
and removing the Weighted Axe could be a bandaid fix to resolve a lot of the PvP problems.

=-/

Is there something I missed?

[feniin]

Ok I just want to put this in perspective:

1. There are 4 items that break bow damage; they are:
Weighted Axe only usable by Warriors & Shadow Knights and Ogres & Trolls
Gromlok's Basher but it is only an 85 delay compared to the 150 delay on the Weighted Axe, can only be used by Warriors & Shadow Knights; most if not all races
Mroon's Toy which is only a 70 delay compared to the 85 delay on the Gromlok's Basher, can only be used... by again Warriors & Shadows (shamans can't use a bow so they are out); but it allows dwarf and Barbarian warriors to wield it.
Earthshaker which is a 70 delay but has the perk that it can finally be used by a ranger and palladin ... AND all races can use it... Sadly the last one sold was on January 3rd of 2020 (according to the wiki) and it isn't exactly too abundant.

2. Fletching and arrows are limited on Warriors, Shadow Knights and Palladins. And unless you pester a mage for summoned arrows all the time you really don't have a means to abuse it in normal setting.

3. Ranger's could use the Earthshaker at a 70 delay and summoned arrow and could bow kite (something already done when soloing) but they will never be as good as they were in Luclin. But then there is the other perspective of this a Ranger gets double attack and arguably could do more damage in melee when well geared. And their bow discipline is on a 45 minute cool down.

I guess you could argue that Shadow Knight & Warrior while being an Ogre & Troll get the most realist damage increase but are limited by arrows or being the tank for the group.

So then that leaves PvP where it is being abused in which it is upsetting some of the population of Red Server.

I am sure the devs will remove the additional damage added by delay to bow and thrown damage

......... but it doesn't look like it is a shutdown the server and patch need.
and removing the Weighted Axe could be a bandaid fix to resolve a lot of the PvP problems.

=-/

Is there something I missed?
72 minutes for Trueshot

[Gustoo]

It is pretty easy to do fletching or just carry stacks of vendor arrows and max out your bags. You get a lot of use. Saying that the limitation on arrows means this isn't a problem is kinda silly.

Its mainly powerful for weighted axe users, as demonstrated.

[Botten]

It is pretty easy to do fletching or just carry stacks of vendor arrows and max out your bags. You get a lot of use. Saying that the limitation on arrows means this isn't a problem is kinda silly.

Its mainly powerful for weighted axe users, as demonstrated.

A Warrior or Shadow Knight as either a Troll or Ogre.

And then they need to either have enough fletching for the raid (or pester a mage) or if in group ask not to tank.

And as said can achieve 82 damage per second on Troll Warrior at Trak.

Sorry but it does sound it really pesters PVP most.

[Gustoo]

Yes it is a pvp tool. You're fighting a warrior and getting smashed by arrows hitting like polearms.

I don't play so I don't mind but it is obviously not working as intended and the limited ammo capacity doesn't fix that.

[Tune]

this is about to grief all casters off the server

like gettin smashed with a 2hander outside of spell range

[Gustoo]

Ya but dude I can only do it 200 times per back pack of summoned free arrows.

It’s for real a joke poor casters KA BLAM right in the throat it’s like a silver knights heavy bow shot spiking through your guy in dark souls like a flying lance

[Tigerstyle Wutangfist]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Game_Mechanics

https://i.imgur.com/tmucb8Z.png

This is player maintained as we all know, but I am sure this list was either copied from some other post, or announcement, or elsewhere. I cannot find the source.

[Baugi]

This is player maintained as we all know, but I am sure this list was either copied from some other post, or announcement, or elsewhere. I cannot find the source.

When you're trying to find the source of wiki text, you should go into the history and figure out what version the text was added on - https://wiki.project1999.com/index.php?title=Game_Mechanics&diff=prev&oldid=14856

The other items in that edit indicate that it's from this patch in 2011 -
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43419

Damage bonuses have been revamped since that patch FWIW.

[Tigerstyle Wutangfist]

Thanks -

That is a while back however the only time Rogean mentions Damage Bonus is here - with little detail on September 8th, 2019.

Rogean: [Kunark/Sep2000/Oct2001] Applied Era Rules to Weapon Damage Bonus Calculations.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2956468&postcount=1

And here - stating it is primary only on 07-23-2012, 02:23 PM

Only the primary weapon gets a damage bonus.

Code: http://codepad.org/NjMM455H

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=690963&postcount=3


Is it possible the 2019 change broke/altered this is a way not noted? Rogean's codepad link does not indicate that 2000/2001 should add bows to Bonus.

[Tigerstyle Wutangfist]

The only other seemingly relevant post by Rogean is this - August 13th, 2011

Kanras: Archery weapon_dmg is once again correctly being calculated.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=362009&postcount=1


This is approx. 20 days after "Removed archery damage bonuses."

Did this revert/alter damage bonus possibly?


My take is ..

there has been no post indicating that archery should have gained damage bonus or moved to some era other than the era specified in the code snippet.

there are posts showing it removed from archery, and what should have damage bonus and when.

that means this was either unintentionally reverted or stealth added intentionally. Thoughts?

[Tigerstyle Wutangfist]

Wow hit a treasure trove.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=335611&highlight=archery#post335611

This post implies that on live in 2002 (Wed Jan 23 05:38:32 2002) that there was no damage bonus on bows.

Hmmm you're right. Judging by the rest of the log he's using both Primal Weapons and a Primal Bow, which is 33 damage. No bow seems to list a damage bonus like weapons do, and nor do Arrows. With that said he's hitting as low as 8 and it's counting as double damage. o.O

2 primal weapons and a primal bow the quote says. 1h bonus is flat 11 so if minimum was 4 + dbl dmg to 8; there is no way a bonus was applied in all likelihood.

[Baugi]

This post implies that on live in 2002 (Wed Jan 23 05:38:32 2002) that there was no damage bonus on bows.

A minimum damage of 8 suggests a damage bonus of 6 or 3 depending on how you calculate the double damage, but you're right that it's inconsistent with just adding the mainhand damage bonus.

[Jimjam]

Hit could have been more and target had rune which wad 8 damage less than the true damage of the hit.

[Jimjam]

Ignoring above, min hit is (DI+arrow Dmg)x2,

In this case, ((33/20 rounded down, or rounded up to 1 if <1) + 3)x2 = 1+3 + 1+3 = 8

[Tigerstyle Wutangfist]

I did consider the Rune/Dmg absorb aspect, but 3 hitsfor 8 in 1min 10 sec seems too coincidental - also I do not immediately recall a fight in Luclin or prior (even Ring of Fire) where mobs chain rune themselves.

In the post linked in the linked post - he says he used " 14dmg arrows."

There are also some logs of trueshot, where his lowest recurrent hit is 32 which is 4X the 8 which i thought was interesting.

@jimjam I was not familiar with the bow dmg calc, can you outline the math/variables you posted above?

[Jimjam]

Honestly I pulled that model out of my butt. I know eq likes d20s, i figured maybe he was mistaken on the arrows he used and was using summoned ones (3dmg).

[Twainz]

[Sat Feb 13 14:42:17 2021] LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:28 2021] You have entered The Overthere.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:38 2021] Vhanilla invites you to join a group.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:38 2021] To join the group, click on the 'FOLLOW' option, or 'DISBAND' to cancel.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:43 2021] Bogey tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:43 2021] You notify Vhanilla that you agree to join the group.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:44 2021] You have joined the group.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:44 2021] Your target is too close to use a ranged weapon!!
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:45 2021] Melodie lets loose a piercing blast.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:45 2021] Baugi begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:46 2021] Bogey hits Vhanilla for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:46 2021] You hit Baugi for 187 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:47 2021] Your feet move faster.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:48 2021] Bogey tries to hit Vhanilla, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:48 2021] Vhanilla reels in pain and loses concentration.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:48 2021] You hit Baugi for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:49 2021] Bogey tries to hit Vhanilla, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:50 2021] You try to hit Baugi, but miss!
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:51 2021] Bogey tries to hit Vhanilla, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:51 2021] Baugi regains concentration and continues casting.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:51 2021] Your skin erupts in purulent pock marks. You have taken 60 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:52 2021] Vhanilla's image shimmers.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:52 2021] You hit Baugi for 130 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:54 2021] You hit Baugi for 200 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:55 2021] You hit Baugi for 149 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:56 2021] Faceoff hits Baugi for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:57 2021] Thunderdorne Scores a critical hit!(37)
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:57 2021] You hit Baugi for 147 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:58 2021] You hit Baugi for 156 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:59 2021] Baugi begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:00 2021] You hit Baugi for 143 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:01 2021] Faceoff tries to hit Baugi, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:02 2021] You hit Baugi for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:02 2021] Baugi regains concentration and continues casting.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:03 2021] You hit Faceoff for 129 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:06 2021] You slow down.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:07 2021] Baugi begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:08 2021] Faceoff hits Baugi for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:08 2021] You hit Baugi for 123 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:08 2021] Your target is too close to use a ranged weapon!!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:10 2021] Auto attack on.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:10 2021] You slash Baugi for 143 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:10 2021] YOU are tormented!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:10 2021] You slash Baugi for 278 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:10 2021] YOU are tormented!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:10 2021] Baugi's casting is interrupted!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:11 2021] Baugi begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:11 2021] Faceoff was tormented.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:11 2021] Faceoff slashes Baugi for 126 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:11 2021] Faceoff was tormented.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:11 2021] Faceoff slashes Baugi for 190 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:11 2021] Baugi has been slain by Faceoff!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:11 2021] Baugi's casting is interrupted!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:11 2021] [PvP] Baugi <Perdition> has been defeated by Faceoff <Apex> in The Overthere!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:16 2021] Your target is too close to use a ranged weapon!!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:17 2021] Vhanilla is bound by strands of solid music.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:17 2021] Melodie lets loose a piercing blast.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:19 2021] You hit Melodie for 138 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:30 2021] You hit Melodie for 115 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:32 2021] You hit Melodie for 130 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:33 2021] You try to hit Melodie, but miss!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:35 2021] You hit Melodie for 142 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:37 2021] You hit Melodie for 135 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:38 2021] Melodie lets loose a piercing blast.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:38 2021] You hit Melodie for 115 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:40 2021] You hit Melodie for 139 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:41 2021] Melodie's song ends abruptly.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:42 2021] You hit Melodie for 192 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:51 2021] Your feet move faster.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:53 2021] You hit Jimbobbie for 133 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:55 2021] You hit Melodie for 128 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:57 2021] You hit Melodie for 187 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:59 2021] You try to hit Melodie, but miss!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:02 2021] You hit Melodie for 114 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:03 2021] You assume a precise fighting style.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:04 2021] You hit Melodie for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:05 2021] You hit Melodie for 174 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:06 2021] Faceoff tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:06 2021] You slow down.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:06 2021] You hit Melodie for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:09 2021] Faceoff tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:09 2021] You hit Melodie for 131 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:09 2021] You have slain Melodie!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:09 2021] [PvP] Melodie <> has been defeated by Thunderdorne <Apex> in The Overthere!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:13 2021] You try to hit Bogey, but miss!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:14 2021] You receive 4 silver and 2 copper from the corpse.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:26 2021] The grim aura fades.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:26 2021] A dull aura covers your hand.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:26 2021] The maelstrom fades away.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:26 2021] You are enveloped in a swirling maelstrom.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:26 2021] The brambles fall away.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:26 2021] You are surrounded by a thorny barrier.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:30 2021] You hit Bogey for 151 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:31 2021] You hit Bogey for 145 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:33 2021] You hit Bogey for 149 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:35 2021] You hit Bogey for 160 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:36 2021] You hit Bogey for 147 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:37 2021] You hit Bogey for 144 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:39 2021] You hit Bogey for 117 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:41 2021] You hit Bogey for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:41 2021] The pox has run its course.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:43 2021] You hit Bogey for 148 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:44 2021] You hit Bogey for 202 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:46 2021] You hit Bogey for 153 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:47 2021] You hit Bogey for 161 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:48 2021] Faceoff hits Bogey for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:49 2021] You hit Bogey for 160 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:50 2021] You hit Bogey for 151 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:52 2021] You hit Bogey for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:53 2021] You hit Bogey for 184 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:55 2021] You hit Bogey for 121 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:55 2021] Faceoff tries to hit Bogey, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:56 2021] Faceoff tries to hit Bogey, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:56 2021] You try to hit Bogey, but miss!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:57 2021] Bogey writhes in the grip of agony.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:57 2021] Bogey has been slain by Bogey!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:57 2021] Bogey's casting is interrupted!

[Twainz]

25 seconds = 2515 damage to a Troll SK from a bow. Imagine if he was a clothie.

[demokatt]

Why is there no wiki selling record of weighted axe? Or is it nodrop?

[Gustoo]

Its usually vendor garbage and I don't think anyone uses it on blue at all.

Only used on PVP and there is no economy on red, so you gotta go kill giants and get one yourself.

[Gustoo]

25 seconds = 2515 damage to a Troll SK from a bow. Imagine if he was a clothie.

Thanks for sharing that log. Hilarious to see him self harmtouch. RIP.

What class / race are you twainz in that log? Looks like ranger - were you using your discipline?

[Tune]

Thanks for sharing that log. Hilarious to see him self harmtouch. RIP.

What class / race are you twainz in that log? Looks like ranger - were you using your discipline?

lol u srs with that question dude?

pay attention hes on a warrior with a weighted axe

non-disc

[Baugi]

lol u srs with that question dude?

pay attention hes on a warrior with a weighted axe

non-disc

Huh? Twainz didn't include any of the useful details so the question was very relevant. You still haven't included any of the relevant stats so it's essentially worthless to the developers. Also, he did disc.


[Sat Feb 13 14:44:03 2021] You assume a precise fighting style.

Not sure why he bothered. The broken accuracy formula is an even longer standing bug as already mentioned.

[Twainz]

Disc aint really needed but just in case I miss 1 or 2 I might as well. 60 Ogre Warrior with a Weighted Axe.

[Gustoo]

This must have been fun like 5 years ago with pop and less people being able to explain the javelins destroying their toons.

Didn’t read log sorry tune just saw those 100 dmg shots.

On live only ranger with discipline popped and really only post AA points was archery good from my memory. Does anyone have other experiences from live?

[Disease]

Why am I able to do this much damage this fast on a Troll Warrior with a Weighted Axe. I'm legit a machine gun fighting kids with knives.

[Mon Dec 21 23:16:05 2020] You hit Symbiotic for 139 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:07 2020] You can't see your target from here.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:09 2020] Your feet move faster.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:10 2020] You think you are heading SouthWest.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:11 2020] Your target resisted the Spirit Strike spell.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:14 2020] You hit Gstring for 132 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:16 2020] Gstring was hit by non-melee for 54 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:16 2020] Gstring staggers as spirits of frost slam against them.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:16 2020] You hit Gstring for 134 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:17 2020] Your target resisted the Spirit Strike spell.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:20 2020] You hit Gstring for 111 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:20 2020] Your target resisted the Spirit Strike spell.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:21 2020] You hit Gstring for 142 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:21 2020] Your target resisted the Spirit Strike spell.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:24 2020] Meatwad Scores a critical hit!(40)
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:24 2020] You hit Gstring for 150 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:24 2020] Your target resisted the Spirit Strike spell.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:25 2020] You hit Gstring for 162 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:25 2020] You slow down.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:25 2020] Your target resisted the Spirit Strike spell.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:26 2020] You hit Gstring for 159 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:29 2020] You hit Gstring for 131 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:29 2020] Your target is too close to use a ranged weapon!!
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:30 2020] Deighre lets loose a piercing blast.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:31 2020] Your target is too close to use a ranged weapon!!
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:31 2020] Baugi begins to cast a spell.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:33 2020] Deighre's song ends abruptly.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:34 2020] You try to hit Gstring, but miss!
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:34 2020] Baugi's casting is interrupted!
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:35 2020] You hit Gstring for 133 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:37 2020] You try to hit Gstring, but miss!
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:38 2020] Gstring was hit by non-melee for 54 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:38 2020] Gstring staggers as spirits of frost slam against them.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:38 2020] You hit Gstring for 132 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:38 2020] Deighre lets loose a piercing blast.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:39 2020] You try to hit Gstring, but miss!
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:40 2020] You hit Gstring for 113 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:41 2020] Your target resisted the Spirit Strike spell.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:42 2020] You hit Gstring for 153 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:43 2020] You hit Gstring for 111 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:44 2020] You hit Gstring for 141 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:46 2020] You try to hit Gstring, but miss!
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:47 2020] You hit Gstring for 118 points of damage.

This matches up with my logs from 2000. I also remember it functioning this way from kunark until luclin launched. I was unstoppable on tallon zek.

[Botten]

Take it how you wish but 2 days after Luclin came out this person posted this on allakhazam (28 posts down)

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=6002&p=1#comments

On the topic of Primal Velium Reinforced Bow

Thoughts?

Also kinda sad to see the damage they are posting because Rangers certainly on p99 aren't breaking those numbers even before Luclin and with Trueshot.


RE: Dmg Bonus?
Posted on
Dec 03 2001 at 12:08 PM Rating: Good

The damage bonus on a weapon is added to the damage you deal to a mob.
For instance:
I have a level 45 bard, my sionachie's partisan has 6 damage bonus. When I wield it in my main hand (only had you get damage bonus in) all my hits will be of 6 points more damage than if I would wield it in my offhand.
So let's say that with 130str and 9 damage on the weapon the damage I can deal will range from 1 to 30 (no exact numbers, but they will do for explaining how it works). The actualy damage I do unto a mob will be ranged from 1-30 if I wield this weapon in the offhand. In the mainhand the damage I deal will range from 7-36.

Twohand weapons are also wielded in the mainhand (though you can't have one in the offhand...du'h) so for a twohanded weapon the math works exactly the same.

Damage bonus is calculated from the delay of the weapon and the level on the person wielding it. I don't know the exactly formula for it though.

Damage bonus, as far as my experience goes, has effect from level one and up, contrary to some that claim it to only go into effect from level 51 and up. I can say for certain though, that from level 40 it definatly has effect.

Hope I made some sense, Rakso.

[Gustoo]

Take it how you wish but 2 days after Luclin came out this person posted this on allakhazam (28 posts down)

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=6002&p=1#comments

On the topic of Primal Velium Reinforced Bow

Thoughts?

Also kinda sad to see the damage they are posting because Rangers certainly on p99 aren't breaking those numbers even before Luclin and with Trueshot.

He doesn’t say anything about archery just main hand

[Gustoo]

This matches up with my logs from 2000. I also remember it functioning this way from kunark until luclin launched. I was unstoppable on tallon zek.

Interesting. So is this indeed not a bug but an OG strategy most people simply didn’t know about?

If I knew about logs I might have been able to compare
My ranger with woodsmans staff bow damage versus lamentation bow damage but 100% don’t have anything from olden times

[Botten]

He doesn’t say anything about archery just main hand

Actually he does. But I can see why you don't want to acknowledge it in case all of this is all actually part of the patching processes leading up to the release of Luclin.

Did you see he was referring to the post above his that very much was talking about archery.


Dmg Bonus?
Quote
Reply
#
Nov 30 2001 at 12:46 AM Rating: Decent

50 posts
Hey all, if you have this you are most likely level 60 with maxed Archery and high STR and DEX. What I want to know is what is the Dmg Bonus on it? And just how does it affect the max dmg outcome? I'm still a little lost on just how this Bonus works with regular Damage output. If anyone can help me out thanks, have fun all. Good hunting.

Enfiniti Starr

It was referring to the Primal Velium Reinforced Bow the item being discussed.

[demokatt]

So what you saying is that my Runed Oak Bow that do max 22 damage on mobs will do over 100 on mobs when wielding that axe? But the downside is that it will be slower so it wont be better anyhow?

[Gustoo]

The delay of the main hand has no impact on the Bow Delay.

The delay of the main hand has an impact on the damage bonus of the ranged weapon. So a huge delay like weighted axe gives huge damage bonus.

This info was available to you by reading the thread.

[Videri]

The delay of the main hand has no impact on the Bow Delay.

The delay of the main hand has an impact on the damage bonus of the ranged weapon. So a huge delay like weighted axe gives huge damage bonus.

This info was available to you by reading the thread.

You're so good with the kids. Good on you, Gustoo.

[demokatt]

Well someone wrote that the hitrate goes down but if that is not the case I want one :-)

Anyone able to get one and sell to me for a couple hundred plats?

[Videri]

Well someone wrote that the hitrate goes down but if that is not the case I want one :-)

Anyone able to get one and sell to me for a couple hundred plats?

It's not super relevant for PVE because your hit rate goes way down. The underlying issue for PVP is the non-classic dex-based accuracy formula which does weird things at the high end. Unfortunately, I don't think we have any era-appropriate logs to recommend a new formula (and the current one is fairly opaque).

Ah. "Hit rate" doesn't mean attack speed. It means the chance for your hit to land, rather than miss. By "hit rate goes way down," he means you miss more bow shots against NPCs; whereas it's easier to hit players, especially if your dex is higher than the enemy player's agility.

[Gustoo]

Does attackers dex vs defenders agility really come into play with thrown and range attacks in this game?

[Tune]

Nope its str based. Another bug they never fixed

[pivo]

Few beginner questions: (say for Troll or Ogre SK)

- this (higher bow damage because of weighted axe) only works against players or also all NPC's?
- is there player's level limit or can this 'technique' be used from lvl 1?
- do you need any specific bow, or will any bow work?

[Gustoo]

I don't think you get the same level of damage bonus at low levels but it would be interesting to try and see what bow hits do at level 1 with a weighted axe in hand. Probably the hard damage cap for lowbies would apply.

[Botten]

Few beginner questions: (say for Troll or Ogre SK)

- this (higher bow damage because of weighted axe) only works against players or also all NPC's?
- is there player's level limit or can this 'technique' be used from lvl 1?
- do you need any specific bow, or will any bow work?

* The damage increase to the bow affects Players and NPCs, however, as explained in a previous post, in this thread, this affects the PVP server the most.

1. The most damage increase comes from the Weighted Axe that can be used by a combination of limited races and limited classes.

2. Referencing the Weighted Axe and its 150 delay. The classes utilizing this 'technique' don't have means to summon arrows (unless they have a mage in the group, have a ranger with the summon arrows bracer around, are a fletcher who will again have limited supplies or there is a vendor selling them near by.

3. In a group the classes affected (warrior and SK) are often the role of the tank not the ranged dps. You may not get your place in a pickup group to do this.

4. The damage increase is not enough to do more damage than the DPS in the raid, however, it does increase your damage if you have all the trimmings like worn, spell and Fleeting Quiver haste.

But again even with these you will not out damage the DPS classes.

5. This and I can't stress it enough affects PvP most giving an unfair advantage to surprised players that don't build the stat(s) to defend against this type of attack. Or are of a class most vulnerable to this type of attack.

* It is level limited. There is a damage cap at various levels and at level 1 you are going to do 26 damage at most for every shot utilizing this 'technique'.

* It works with any bow but bows with a faster delay get the biggest benefit due to the base damage increase.
(Note: There is a bug that too fast of a delay can actually do less damage utilizing the most haste. Look up Fleeting Quiver discussion on ZAM.)

In Conclusion, it is most likely an unintended bug that may have even happened on live for a period of time building up to Luclin as seen in the discussion thread on Exquisite Velium Reinforced Bow on the website ZAM (outlined on this thread). But note some of the damage from ranger bow attacks 'on live' as discussion building to Luclin (even in the ZAM Exquisite Velium Reinforced Bow thread) could be with out the bug be as high as 1K and........ this isn't this way on P99 - ranger bow damage doesn't do all that much.

If determine a bug and put into perspective it isn't warranted to bring down blue and green to patch and if it was; the simplest bandaid fix until a patch for this usual trash vendor item would be to remove it from the game. The other longer delay items are harder to get or simply don't give the same grossly larger damage increase as the Weighted Axe.

[Gustoo]

Weighted axe was a common PVP item for budget minded people looking to smash casters when they are meditating for maximum destruction. Seems a stretch to just remove the item but that is the easiest fix (make it non equippable)

[pivo]

Weighted axe was a common PVP item for budget minded people looking to smash casters when they are meditating for maximum destruction. Seems a stretch to just remove the item but that is the easiest fix (make it non equippable)

I gave Weighted Axe to my lvl 1 Ogre SK, and vendor bought Long Bow (8 damage I think) and regular arrows.

Arrows were hitting NPC's for 9-10 damage. At what level this advantage kicks in? I was hoping my leveling of this SK is going to be piece of cake. Doesn't look so far, I'm dying just as easy as I did with other toons lol

Ahh, and Weighted Axe needs minute or two to finally hit. It is quite a grindy process, had to switch it out ;)

[Imago]

If determine a bug and put into perspective it isn't warranted to bring down blue and green to patch and if it was; the simplest bandaid fix until a patch for this usual trash vendor item would be to remove it from the game. The other longer delay items are harder to get or simply don't give the same grossly larger damage increase as the Weighted Axe.

Sounds like Earthshaker futures are going to the moon.

[Botten]

Sounds like Earthshaker futures are going to the moon.

*Looking at your signature with your ranger on red...

On the PVP server red; maybe but good luck finding one for sale when they are pretty hard to find even on Blue. Look at the last time one sold on Blue from p99 wiki and consider the mob it drops from.

And then come to the realization that Earthshaker (70) delay is not even HALF the delay of the weighted Axe (150). Truly at least on the blue and green server a ranger double attacking, self buffed weapon proc and kick is going to do arguably more damage than a ranger doing double bow damage attacks on a raid mob. I just wish Trueshot wasn’t on such a bad cool down.

But again I have to stress look at the rangers talking about their archery damage on the ZAM post about the Exquisite Reinforced Velium Bow before Luclin came out. Ranger bow damage on P99 isn’t anything like that.

And the biggest insult an iksar monk with Grandmaster bracer that summons free shurikens has a better chance to experience this “range damage” increase with a 60 delay weapon you merely ASK for from an NPC. See hammer of exonerated

This ranged damage issue is more of a concern on PVP red server due to the way most players don’t gear to combat this type of attack. And how easy it is to get the weighted axe as an Ogre or Troll warrior/Shadow knight.

[Tune]

https://imgur.com/IOQDRuW

https://imgur.com/IOQDRuW

this bow quest is being taken to levels out of hand

trivializing even pve content now (bowing out of aoe range)

this shit needs to get fixed already

Back in the day, im pretty sure u didnt have 10 ogre warriors as raid dps standing back and bowing

[Merzenary]

what a bunch of cheaters

[Baugi]

this bow quest is being taken to levels out of hand

trivializing even pve content now (bowing out of aoe range)

this shit needs to get fixed already

Is <Apex> seriously whining that someone put a PVP group at the entrance of a room to disrupt your raid violation attempts? They're not there because they parse well (thus the rogues that you conveniently cropped out).

[Tigerstyle Wutangfist]

a PVP group at the entrance of a room

I think this may be valid, but the overall principle that players can do a grossly high amount of damage via a bonus 110 dmg per bowshot out of melee or AE range *is likely not intended.

The best example of this is ST golems w pet tanking. 6-10 players bowing is an incredible dps increase.

[Tigerstyle Wutangfist]

This goes beyond the actions of any one guild. The server turning into tons of ogre/troll war/sks using bowing undermines the spirit of EQ PVP (which is already laughable).

Same is true for the reaper/insta cast pots nerf that is needed.

[Tune]

Is <Apex> seriously whining that someone put a PVP group at the entrance of a room to disrupt your raid violation attempts? They're not there because they parse well (thus the rogues that you conveniently cropped out).

nothing was cropped

u can see the 1 rogue there and all weighted axe bow classes

bc its more viable to circumvent the aoe

[Botten]

nothing was cropped

u can see the 1 rogue there and all weighted axe bow classes

bc its more viable to circumvent the aoe

So your saying they purposely took troll/ogres warriors/SK to only use weighted axe bow damage?

Um... sorry but that is just weird.
Not saying it couldn't happen but....

having an abundance of that race/class combination compared to much better damaging classes in PvE sounds kinda silly.

I mean it isn't like that specific race and class bow damage and gear combination is that amazing in PvE. With such a delay and single attack on those bows.... there are lot of classes if focusing their damage from the same distance can do much more damage.

I mean look at same Troll SK reporting this damage who stated:
"Sustained 82 Damage Per Second on Trakanon."

Just kinda sounds like a purpose setup for a screenshot opportunity. As stated before the problem with it really is in PvP.

[Symbioticforks]

The person complaining about this, also has the abandoned accounts of many of the best geared characters on the server.

"Bowquest" allows newer players who weren't around during the uncontested velious PvE to pose a bit of a threat. Heaven forbid!

Also nobody had this level of gear during Velious on live, so I don't mind seeing a few people dieing in pvp versus being nigh invincible with old fully geared ToV characters with maxed out resists.

Killed so many dragons you can ignore pvp? Wow.

[Tigerstyle Wutangfist]

The person complaining about this, also has the abandoned accounts of many of the best geared characters on the server.

"Bowquest" allows newer players who weren't around during the uncontested velious PvE to pose a bit of a threat. Heaven forbid!

Also nobody had this level of gear during Velious on live, so I don't mind seeing a few people dieing in pvp versus being nigh invincible with old fully geared ToV characters with maxed out resists.

Killed so many dragons you can ignore pvp? Wow.

Those are two separate issues.

It is unfortunate and makes competition lopsided, but that doesn't mean make melee/caster irrelevant/at a significant disadvantage in group PVP.

Suspend the accounts he uses for training (or by IP) and enforcing boxing - one guy whose friends all ditched him is stoppable with any gear level. Right now he just abuses the rules.

[Baugi]

nothing was cropped

u can see the 1 rogue there and all weighted axe bow classes

bc its more viable to circumvent the aoe

4 rogues and 2 monks on the parse vs. 3 warriors. Top damage by far was a rogue. We get that you think this is a bug and should be fixed. You've already presented your evidence, or lack thereof. There's no reason to lie to the developers about things that are easily debunked.

"nothing was cropped" (when the photo is 727x607 and you cut off your own UI elements) - who do you honestly expect to believe this gaslighting nonsense?

[Tune]

So your saying they purposely took troll/ogres warriors/SK to only use weighted axe bow damage?

Um... sorry but that is just weird.
Not saying it couldn't happen but....

having an abundance of that race/class combination compared to much better damaging classes in PvE sounds kinda silly.

I mean it isn't like that specific race and class bow damage and gear combination is that amazing in PvE. With such a delay and single attack on those bows.... there are lot of classes if focusing their damage from the same distance can do much more damage.

I mean look at same Troll SK reporting this damage who stated:
"Sustained 82 Damage Per Second on Trakanon."

Just kinda sounds like a purpose setup for a screenshot opportunity. As stated before the problem with it really is in PvP.

bro.. it uses the delay on the bow... and u get the damage from the weighted axe

u just get the fastest bow u can find with all the haste, buffs, quiver and high damage arrows

what are u talking about this is a very OP way to get free damage outside of aoes and be like an immortal rog from distance

[Tune]

no one really cares about posts here but i will anyway

Those are two separate issues.

It is unfortunate and makes competition lopsided, but that doesn't mean make melee/caster irrelevant/at a significant disadvantage in group PVP.

Suspend the accounts he uses for training (or by IP) and enforcing boxing - one guy whose friends all ditched him is stoppable with any gear level. Right now he just abuses the rules.

enforcing boxing means you are taking their raids from like 30 to 20 and theres going to be no pvp grp fighting us while the raid is going.

training? wont be any trains unless they bring the mobs, as seen in hate.

The person complaining about this, also has the abandoned accounts of many of the best geared characters on the server.

"Bowquest" allows newer players who weren't around during the uncontested velious PvE to pose a bit of a threat. Heaven forbid!

Also nobody had this level of gear during Velious on live, so I don't mind seeing a few people dieing in pvp versus being nigh invincible with old fully geared ToV characters with maxed out resists.

Killed so many dragons you can ignore pvp? Wow.

point is moot

4 rogues and 2 monks on the parse vs. 3 warriors. Top damage by far was a rogue. We get that you think this is a bug and should be fixed. You've already presented your evidence, or lack thereof. There's no reason to lie to the developers about things that are easily debunked.

"nothing was cropped" (when the photo is 727x607 and you cut off your own UI elements) - who do you honestly expect to believe this gaslighting nonsense?

bro u had 5-6 weighted axes at CT do I need to post the video?

[Botten]

bro.. it uses the delay on the bow... and u get the damage from the weighted axe

u just get the fastest bow u can find with all the haste, buffs, quiver and high damage arrows

what are u talking about this is a very OP way to get free damage outside of aoes and be like an immortal rog from distance

I know you use the delay on the bow when using the weighted ax on either an Ogre/Troll Warrior/SK.

The bow the Troll SK was using that got 82 damage per second on Trak was a Bow of the Huntsman with a 30 delay. You can see that from the first post with the proc.

The Bow of the Huntsman is probably one of the easier bows with a low delay comparably to getting the Sarnak War Bow with a 25 delay or Bow of the Destroyer which is ridiculously hard to get and probably better suited for a ranger.

So yeah you are not going to get much better in delay.

You certainly aren't doing rogue damage with this setup. In fact you may actually do more damage on the same SK and Warrior with a straight up 2hander with double attack.

Does the range help yeah but again there are many other classes that offer much more damage from that range comparably to loading up your small raid with Orge/Troll Warrior/SK doing weighted axe bow damage.

Again the problem with this combination is in PvP where many aren't gear with the correct stats to combat this type of damage.

I know you want this changed in PvP and it is easiest to blow it up as a PvE issue that affects everything but it really isn't.

[Baugi]

You certainly aren't doing rogue damage with this setup.

It's less than half a decent rogue with patch heals. It's just nice that they can double as PVP protection.

enforcing boxing means you are taking their raids from like 30 to 20 and theres going to be no pvp grp fighting us while the raid is going.

<Perdition> doesn't box like <Apex> did. Mainly because our guildleader isn't personally setting members up with a VirtualBox and a VPN, then giving out loot council preference for using them.

training? wont be any trains unless they bring the mobs, as seen in hate.

Didn't you personally train constructs and spiders down to Zlandi on Reap? They would have made it all the way to our clerics if the PVP group hadn't been there to force you into a fear.

bro u had 5-6 weighted axes at CT do I need to post the video?

You were, in fact, lying about Zlandicar though? 8 rogues, 2 mages, and a chanter on CT. Top damage was obviously Irak, followed by the rogues. Perhaps you should actually try PVE bow damage so you understand its limitations better.

[Gustoo]

Hey guys these threads are bad don't argue this way in public it makes you look straight up bad.

Respond to "facts" with non sequitur facts for example:

Someone: "Baugi trained me, and said something offensive"
Baugi: "My guild continues to make progress through the most challening PVE content while prevailing in PVP encounters. We are open to any new recruits of superior quality"

Someone and Baugi roles could be flipped depening on who is better at not sounding like a goof ball on a message board.

"You had 3 people doing X"
"No YOU had 4 people doing X and I had 2"
"oh but one of your 2 was counted as one of my 4 so we actually each had 3 since he fought on your side before betraying you!"

It doesn't help guys. I want you to prosper.

[Baugi]

Respond to "facts" with non sequitur facts for example

I'll admit that the discussion has devolved into childishness, but this is a bug report thread, not a guild recruitment thread. Responding to false statements with non sequiturs doesn't really help get at the truth of anything.

The claim that bow damage is comparable to a rogue currently and trivializing content is just silly.

[Gustoo]

I agree, the but bug report has been made and adequately documented. The DPS is easy to calculate and not actually relevant.

It seems like a bug, because people used weighted axes for PVP in rallos times but I don't remember anyone having flying freight-train arrows as you guys are describing.

I think that if you had enough Ogre SKs and Ogre Warriors using weighted axes and bows you could trivialize quite a bit of content just arrow blasting aggro kiting back and forth anything that doesn't summon too much. But that doesn't matter as much as the PVP impact since all PVE is trivial and this won't help enough to kill dragons that red 99 doesn't have enough players to take down.

Yeah it felt like a guild recruitment thread.

[Jimjam]

I agree, the but bug report has been made and adequately documented. The DPS is easy to calculate and not actually relevant.

It seems like a bug, because people used weighted axes for PVP in rallos times but I don't remember anyone having flying freight-train arrows as you guys are describing.

I think that if you had enough Ogre SKs and Ogre Warriors using weighted axes and bows you could trivialize quite a bit of content just arrow blasting aggro kiting back and forth anything that doesn't summon too much. But that doesn't matter as much as the PVP impact since all PVE is trivial and this won't help enough to kill dragons that red 99 doesn't have enough players to take down.

Yeah it felt like a guild recruitment thread.

Maybe the issue is the archery skill isn't being called correctly. Knights only have like 75 skill, but it doesn't feel like they are that bad when they shoot up.

[Botten]

Maybe the issue is the archery skill isn't being called correctly. Knights only have like 75 skill, but it doesn't feel like they are that bad when they shoot up.

Nah it affects Throwing too.

It is main hand delay adding the damage.

The skill only affects whether it hits or misses in mostly PvE... there are other stats factored in PvP like Dex vs Agi.

[Tune]

I'll admit that the discussion has devolved into childishness, but this is a bug report thread, not a guild recruitment thread. Responding to false statements with non sequiturs doesn't really help get at the truth of anything.

The claim that bow damage is comparable to a rogue currently and trivializing content is just silly.

umm with max buffs its quite viable ,

especially if u never need to take an aoe

constant dps never needing to dodge an aoe

lets see some parses

[Gustoo]

Maybe the issue is the archery skill isn't being called correctly. Knights only have like 75 skill, but it doesn't feel like they are that bad when they shoot up.

We should put an SK vs an Warrior and see how they do shooting eachother with arrows.

The SK at 75 skill at lvl60 should be way way behind a warrior who has 240 at lvl60

I suspect your right about the archery skill. Remember how much you miss in PVE with a low skill melee item?

[Botten]

We should put an SK vs an Warrior and see how they do shooting eachother with arrows.

The SK at 75 skill at lvl60 should be way way behind a warrior who has 240 at lvl60

I suspect your right about the archery skill. Remember how much you miss in PVE with a low skill melee item?

On Red server Dexterity affects PVP hit rate. It does this by comparing your dexterity to your opponent's agility. There is no evidence that Dexterity affects hit rate in PVE.

I suspect your skill level with a weapon doesn’t play a factor on whether you hit your PvP opponent. Thou some how I do think level plays a factor. Skill level plays a factor as to how many time you hit a PVE mob of a similar level.

This is why players aren’t exactly geared to combat this type of damage.

No one stack AGI for PvP. Not when HP and resists are king.

[Tune]

archery was always bugged

strength affected the hit rate, its probably the same now

[Botten]

archery was always bugged

strength affected the hit rate, its probably the same now

I believe STR affects damage as it does in PVE

Strength is a valuable stat for melee and tank characters to increase both their max and average hit of melee and bow damage.

[Kief]

This does need to be nerfed in regards to PvP. A weighted axe and a vendor bow with arrows should not allow a naked warrior or sk large race be able to dominate you regardless of class.

Of course with more gear in the variation it changes but the point is sound. If Nilbog could spare a brief moment send me a PM and I will gladly get the logs required for you to see for yourself.

[Symbioticforks]

It's something people can easily deal with by just playing a little differently. For most people they hug zonelines anyway. Anything indoors and it's pretty bad too. It's whatever.

[Tune]

It's something people can easily deal with by just playing a little differently. For most people they hug zonelines anyway. Anything indoors and it's pretty bad too. It's whatever.

can only pvp by clinging to said crutch

easy to click ranged attack

[Jimjam]

can only pvp by clinging to said crutch

easy to click ranged attack

I dont think red 2.0 is happening. People get too mad in this game when they get pvped and cry too hard when they lose. I dont think staff wants to deal with 40yr old millenial participation trophy cry babies

[Symbioticforks]

can only pvp by clinging to said crutch

easy to click ranged attack

Take it easy smooth brain. You're confusing me with someone else. You complain about literally everything. Your suspensions, your guild evaporating, the rules of the server, and now how much an arrow hurts you. #Crybone

[reebz]

This will literally never be changed, sorry

[Ragnaros]

how could anyone possibly think keeping this is a good idea

[Tune]

this is beyond stupid at this point

like this is the worst bug that is preventing people from even wanting to play

bump for sanity

[Gustoo]

So what is better to take advantage of this exploitable mechanic?

SK ogre or Warrior ogre?

Thanks

[Botten]

So what is better to take advantage of this exploitable mechanic?

SK ogre or Warrior ogre?

Thanks

On a PvP server I suspect utilizing a SKs spells and pet if needed.

It isn't worth it to use this for the most damage in PvE that is for sure. Both classes can do a lot more damage in PvE using double attack (speaking from a non-ranged encounter).

I guess a bandaid fix like making the Weighted Ax as non-wearable by all would fix the grotesque abuse of this PvP strategy.

Or else just pick up an AGI PvP set and see how it does against this type of damage.

[Gustoo]

I'm really curious how agility comes into play, seems non classic?

But yeah just disabling the weighted axe is an instant fix for this and at least levels the playing field.

[reebz]

???????

We are coming into the 4th year of Velious and you think people to need to pick up an AGI set of gear???? God you people are so dumb. No one's been pvp'ing without 255 str/dex/agi since the first copy of Focus Of Spirit dropped in 2017

[Imago]

???????

We are coming into the 6th year of Velious and you think people to need to pick up an AGI set of gear???? God you people are so dumb. No one's been pvp'ing without 255 str/dex/agi since the first copy of Focus Of Spirit dropped in 2015

FTFY

[Botten]

???????

We are coming into the 4th year of Velious and you think people to need to pick up an AGI set of gear???? God you people are so dumb. No one's been pvp'ing without 255 str/dex/agi since the first copy of Focus Of Spirit dropped in 2017

It is cute how these are the same people who don't know what a Crystallized Pumice is used for in pvp.

[Kief]

Regardless of statements made in this thread, the 2 hand damage bonus did not apply to ranged weaponry.

It's in error and should be fixed when Nilbog has adequate time.

Regards and love,
Guava

[JipXIII]

Has anything been said by p99 staff about this topic? Interested parties want to know.

[Tune]

easy fix to this issue:

Remove 2hand damage bonus all together, roll back the changes UNTIL this is ready to come out properly

the server doesn't need 2hand damage bonus that badly, trust me drybone is still gonna kill any perd shidder.

it is WAY WAY better to play on a reverted time line a few more years than play a broken game a few years

[Botten]

easy fix to this issue:

Remove 2hand damage bonus all together, roll back the changes UNTIL this is ready to come out properly

the server doesn't need 2hand damage bonus that badly, trust me drybone is still gonna kill any perd shidder.

it is WAY WAY better to play on a reverted time line a few more years than play a broken game a few years

Again removing *broadly* the 2handed Bonus isn't really viable. Especially since the method of damage even with the Weighted Axe (that is very selective in Race & Class to begin with) doesn't compete with normal PvE damage (on that same class).

The issue arise with PvP and this type of damage that few gear to combat against.

Classic had the 2handed Bonus about this time while Archery damage in game at this time does not seem to reflect some of the damage reported by Allakhazam post.

Now with all this said do I think the 2handed Weighted Axe should be wearable by None/None on the PvP server as a bandaid fix for this? Yes.

But, just removing the 2handed Bonus added from delay isn't classic.

[/quote] Originally Posted by Patch Notes Sept 19, 2000
Low-Delay Weapons and Damage Bonus Changes:

In accordance with our announcement several weeks ago, two low-delay weapons can now only be equipped in the off-hand. Included in this change are the Mosscovered Twig and the Barbed Scale Whip. The delay on these weapons and the associated damage bonus to weapons in the primary hand made these weapons much too powerful for their availability and the risk associated with their acquisition.

In addition, two-handed weapons have had their damage-bonus modified. The damage-bonus for low-delay two-handed weapons (27 or below) created a problem similar to the weapons above and has been reduced. The damage-bonus has not changed for normal-delay (28-39) two-handed weapons. The damage bonus for high-delay two-handed weapons (40+) has been increased.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patch Notes Oct 8, 2001
Summary of Melee Changes:

Two-Handed Weapons have been given an increased damage bonus for characters over level 50. Also, certain post-epic quality two-handers have been improved.
Here is a table that has the correct values after all the changes listed above. I don't remember what they were before those patches.
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/dmgbonus.html?setcookie=1[/quote]

Even the 2 handed Weighted Axe is mentioned here in this thread.
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16261

[Tune]

its not a permanent change its just temporarily until its fixed

u can make the weighted axe none/none for the time being that would help tremendously

[Symbioticforks]

Keep things the way they are.

This helps close the gear gap for new players to get involved in end-game velious pvp, and compete against characters who free farmed trivialized TOV @ zone in years ago.

You may see Tune complain about this a lot, and it's mostly because it affects him the most. Having a ton of legacy geared characters who get stuck like pin coushins when caught out in open zones.

The last thing we need on red99 is to be granting someone from <Nihilum>'s inner circle their every wish. (insert picture of Outback Steakhouse's most popular appetizer) If reverting this didn't benefit him in some way you know they'd not even mention it.

[Heywood]

easy fix to this issue:

it is WAY WAY better to play on a reverted time line a few more years than play a broken game a few years



I don't get it, is this why you disrespectfully ignore GMs rules and exploit water mechanics when it comes to drowning dragons?


You can't cry that something is broken, then turn around and blatantly exploit broken mechanics. GMs have said do not drown dragons, you go and drown dragons, then cry that something else is broken (clearly 2hand dmg bonus isnt broken).

I feel like this is straight up disrespectful and you're insulting the GMs' intelligence when you come to the forums to cry wolf.


Move this to resolved. thank you.

[Tune]

I don't get it, is this why you disrespectfully ignore GMs rules and exploit water mechanics when it comes to drowning dragons?


You can't cry that something is broken, then turn around and blatantly exploit broken mechanics. GMs have said do not drown dragons, you go and drown dragons, then cry that something else is broken (clearly 2hand dmg bonus isnt broken).

I feel like this is straight up disrespectful and you're insulting the GMs' intelligence when you come to the forums to cry wolf.


Move this to resolved. thank you.

this post doesnt make any sense and is a different topic for a different issue (broken since Red Dawn kunark era). One is a pve issue the other actually affects other players and breaks the game

Keep things the way they are.

This helps close the gear gap for new players to get involved in end-game velious pvp, and compete against characters who free farmed trivialized TOV @ zone in years ago.

You may see Tune complain about this a lot, and it's mostly because it affects him the most. Having a ton of legacy geared characters who get stuck like pin coushins when caught out in open zones.

The last thing we need on red99 is to be granting someone from <Nihilum>'s inner circle their every wish. (insert picture of Outback Steakhouse's most popular appetizer) If reverting this didn't benefit him in some way you know they'd not even mention it.

Again, this makes no sense, I have characters that can use weighted axes, some of my best characters, in fact. Changing this rule hurts ME. This completely throws the balance 180 degrees in the opposite direction, and ruins pvp even more. The wars and sks are already some of the top teir classes in this game, keeping it like this and making them even more brokenly OP is asinine.

[Baugi]

You hate bowquest because it makes it harder for you to run around golem wanding dragons and tanks. The stuff about balance is just lip service, which is why you supported the golem wand and reaper changes even though they similarly disable casters.

In any case, this is classicquest not balancequest and you've yet to supply any evidence that bowquest isn't classic.

Drowning dragons is obviously non-classic btw.

[Symbioticforks]

Tune your best geared character is relegated to King Tormax protection and doesnt leave Kael ever unless it’s to cast SoW. Drybone might as well not even exist. The majority of what you play doesn’t benefit from bow quest so naturally you’re raising a fuss about it.

Allowing a lot of newer players to have strong viable pvp characters, devalues your easy tov gains. I get it.

[Tunabros]

lol bow go brrrrrrrr

[Tune]

This was taken from the jan 17th 2001 patch notes

The ranger's "Trueshot" discipline has had its damage increased after
analyzing data from its fix last week. Prior to the last patch, all bows, while under the discipline, were hitting as if they were 45dmg bows regardless of the delay. Last week's patch fixed it so that damage was based on the damage of the bow. This weeks patch increases damage bonuses in relation to delay (longer delays yield better damage bonuses).

clearly the damage bonus on the BOW was based off the delay of the BOW here not the main hand

there is 0 evidence that people were using weighted axes to assist with bow damage

[Penish]

the low iq's fighting over a 30 pop box, you guys are fucking sad in SO many ways, lets lol together today.

[Kief]

Tune your best geared character is relegated to King Tormax protection and doesnt leave Kael ever unless it’s to cast SoW. Drybone might as well not even exist. The majority of what you play doesn’t benefit from bow quest so naturally you’re raising a fuss about it.

Allowing a lot of newer players to have strong viable pvp characters, devalues your easy tov gains. I get it.

The issue is that when equally geared people of the same class want to have a fun, lasting fight - it comes down to a mindless random bow shot.

That is the problem. And the context you're missing. Tune may not be elegant but he just proved what I have been saying - 2H Damage Bonus did NOT apply to the bow. Even on a Ranger.

Sorry Baugi but it's not right and you know it. Let's make it how it should/was.

Thanks Nilbog and company when you have time,
Guava

[Baugi]

That is the problem. And the context you're missing. Tune may not be elegant but he just proved what I have been saying - 2H Damage Bonus did NOT apply to the bow. Even on a Ranger.

Nah, you're reading your own bias into the patch note. Your assumption is that since the damage interval is based on the damage of the bow, the damage bonus should also be based on its delay. The patch note doesn't say that.

The patch just says that damage bonuses were increased relative to delay, which is also true on P99, where the damage interval is based on the damage of the bow, but the damage bonus is based on the delay of the mainhand.

I agree that it seems buggy, but I also don't know why it was coded that way in the first place (could be based on an in-era parse or a EQmac dump, ect.) and there's still no compelling evidence in this thread that it should be different.

[Kief]

[QUOTE=Tune;3370669]This was taken from the jan 17th 2001 patch notes

The ranger's "Trueshot" discipline has had its damage increased after
analyzing data from its fix last week. Prior to the last patch, all bows, while under the discipline, were hitting as if they were 45dmg bows regardless of the delay. Last week's patch fixed it so that damage was based on the damage of the bow. This weeks patch increases damage bonuses in relation to delay (longer delays yield better damage bonuses).QUOTE]

[Kief]

The damage bonus on the bow was based off the delay of the bow.

It's right there. You are being purposefully obtuse Baugi. I have no bias.

You know as well as I do it's unbalanced, too. I will leave it at that.

[Baugi]

It's right there. You are being purposefully obtuse Baugi. I have no bias.

Pedantic maybe, but reading critically, it just doesn't say what you want it to say.

"This weeks patch increases damage bonuses in relation to delay (longer delays yield better damage bonuses)." - doesn't say where the damage bonus comes from, just that it was increased and that it applies to overall bow damage (under trueshot). If you assume that the damage bonus is calculated based on mainhand delay as it is on P99, the whole note still reads correctly.

Reading between the lines on a historic document is dangerous. You have to be careful what assumptions you come into it with.

[Jimjam]

On top of that the Devs were obviously really bad at getting archery to work properly - took them ages to realise all bows were being treated as 45DMG under trueshot. Whats to say they managed to pull delay from the right source for the purposes of creating ranged damage bonus.

[Tune]

Pedantic maybe, but reading critically, it just doesn't say what you want it to say.

"This weeks patch increases damage bonuses in relation to delay (longer delays yield better damage bonuses)." - doesn't say where the damage bonus comes from, just that it was increased and that it applies to overall bow damage (under trueshot). If you assume that the damage bonus is calculated based on mainhand delay as it is on P99, the whole note still reads correctly.

Reading between the lines on a historic document is dangerous. You have to be careful what assumptions you come into it with.


Its not pedantic, we are on the topic of bows, OBVIOUSLY he's referring to bows.

People simply don't speak like that, with such redundancy. We don't have to state bow 5 times in the same paragraph.

You are just grasping at straws here

[Baugi]

People simply don't speak like that, with such redundancy. We don't have to state bow 5 times in the same paragraph.

This person did heh. He did exactly that in the previous sentence -

"Prior to the last patch, all bows, while under the discipline, were hitting as if they were 45dmg bows regardless of the delay."

Seems to me like you're the one raging at straws. At this point the developers have undoubtedly decided its an obvious bug based on their knowledge of the p99 implementation or they haven't. A fix is in the works or it isn't. Nitpicking unrelated patch notes isn't going to sway them either way.

[Kief]

This was taken from the jan 17th 2001 patch notes

Last week's patch fixed it so that damage was based on the damage of the bow. This weeks patch increases damage bonuses in relation to delay (longer delays yield better damage bonuses).


Bolded the bow delay being the 2nd update. It proves the bonus is based off the delay of the bow and not main hand. It is quite clear if you read it correctly.

[Baugi]

Bolded the bow delay being the 2nd update. It proves the bonus is based off the delay of the bow and not main hand. It is quite clear if you read it correctly.

Again... it doesn't say the bow damage bonus is based on the bow delay... it just doesn't. It says the damage bonus was increased relative to delay (also true on P99 which uses mainhand delay). It doesn't even say "the delay," which might hint at referring to the aforementioned bow. It just says "delay".

[Imago]

Again... it doesn't say the bow damage bonus is based on the bow delay... it just doesn't. It says the damage bonus was increased relative to delay (also true on P99 which uses mainhand delay). It doesn't even say "the delay," which might hint at referring to the aforementioned bow. It just says "delay".

If you cant understand the contextual reference to the dev post, you are either a) a complete idiot, or b) a tryhard lawyerquest who knows they're wrong but is too stubborn to give up after it's too late in order to maintain the status quo that works in their favor.

It was fun while it lasted. Time to let it go.

[Baugi]

If you cant understand the contextual reference to the dev post, you are either a) a complete idiot, or b) a tryhard lawyerquest who knows they're wrong but is too stubborn to give up after it's too late in order to maintain the status quo that works in their favor.

It was fun while it lasted. Time to let it go.

I've said from the start that it seems likely to be a bug to an outside observer. I'm not sure what I'd have to be stubborn about. This is more about discipline in scholarship.

The context is increasing trueshot damage. Which word in particular are you claiming is a substitute for "bow"? Again, you can't just read between the lines and substitute your own assumptions when you're presenting a reference. It's lazy and often misleading.

Incidentally, calculating bow damage bonus (assuming the formula is the same as melee) based on the delay of the bow rather than delay of the mainhand would be even more inconsistent with the small of amount of log data presented from Luclin earlier in the thread (since the damage bonus from a primal bow would be greater than the damage bonus from a one-handed mainhand). - http://forums.hossguild.org/showthread.php?2391-HOSS-and-ST&p=19954&viewfull=1#post19954

[Kief]

It's called context Baugi. The devs were talking about bow damage and then referenced delay. So one can safely infer that they were calculating bow delay since they were talking about bow damage.

Lol come on bro.

[Baugi]

So one can safely infer that they were calculating bow delay[sic]

One cannot. For the fifth? time, the overall context is increasing trueshot damage. There's nothing logically linking the third and fourth sentences so it reads perfectly correct whether you assume the damage bonus is based on the delay of the bow or mainhand (both would increase trueshot damage).

I'm sorry it doesn't say what you want it to.

[Imago]

"Hey pals! Your bestest friends John Smedley and Brad McQuaid checking in to talk about our new game - Everquest!

We recently made some upgrades to the Bow using classes, especially the Ranger class. We've added a long cooldown, short term duration buff for Rangers that DOUBLES damage done by a bow. Also, we've decided to significantly increase bow damage based on delay for all classes! Isn't that neat? But here's the catch - the increase in bow damage doesn't come from bow delay, it comes from MAINHAND delay! Bet you didn't see that coming! This will put Warriors and Shadowknights as better bow users, when using their class specific 2h weapons, than Rangers who have the best Ranger items in the game, even when they're using their brand new buff! Don't you love class fantasy?"

This is what you think is right, Baugi.

[Botten]

Would be really cool for rangers to benefit with a damage bonus based on the delay of the bow. And I have a ranger!

And maybe damage bonus was added base on bow delay back then as suggested.

But to just to play devil's advocate for a second.

Are we really talking about adding something like 75 damage to something like:
https://wiki.project1999.com/Efreeti_War_Bow
40/100

And before you say yeah it is fine! It works with melee weapons with a long delay (it is the same thing)!

Please realize WITHOUT true shot rangers (if the mob is occupied) do double damage every shot. Figure in also crits and may see where I am going with this.

And then.... God forbid they then use trueshoot discipline.

Then that would truly be a problem on blue servers; not just red servers.
It would be my Luclin dreams in Velious era.

And what about bows like:
https://wiki.project1999.com/Bow_of_the_Underfoot
33/60
Bow from a rock golem in the hole; it would have an added damage of 49 with double damage and crit it would more than likely do more damage than:
https://wiki.project1999.com/Bow_of_the_Destroyer
10/17
a bow from Temple of Veeshan

You can't see it now but I putting on a sad panda face thinking about the fact nothing will be given to archery to avoid yet another problem.

I just can't see them adding a damage bonus on the delay of a bow.

[Baugi]

This is what you think is right, Baugi.

Thanks, but no thanks. If it's classic, it's classic. It doesn't have to make sense.

I'm sorry that your character is inconvenienced by this bug and/or feature, but that's no reason to misrepresent evidence.

Are we really talking about adding something like 75 damage to something like:
https://wiki.project1999.com/Efreeti_War_Bow

Hopefully not. It's clear from the Luclin era parse that if damage bonus is supposed to be based on bow delay, it definitely doesn't use the 2handed chart.

[Kief]

Yet you completely ignore the part where they specify bow damage is based on the bow itself - not just trueshot disc.

Selectively reading? Prejudice? Either way I cannot believe you are this obtuse. This is my last reply. Good day.

[Tune]

Thanks, but no thanks. If it's classic, it's classic. It doesn't have to make sense.

I'm sorry that your character is inconvenienced by this bug and/or feature, but that's no reason to misrepresent evidence.



Hopefully not. It's clear from the Luclin era parse that if damage bonus is supposed to be based on bow delay, it definitely doesn't use the 2handed chart.

its no classic tho

sks only have 75 skill for a reason, they are NOT supposed to be good bowers

like how much evidence to u need? there is not 1 shred of proof people equipping a weighted axe for a bow kiting "boost"

I feel like the onus is on you to prove a game breaking bug is supposed to be the way it is

[Baugi]

its no classic tho

sks only have 75 skill for a reason, they are NOT supposed to be good bowers

like how much evidence to u need? there is not 1 shred of proof people equipping a weighted axe for a bow kiting "boost"

I feel like the onus is on you to prove a game breaking bug is supposed to be the way it is

And yet, they have near 100% accuracy with a good dex vs. agility matchup. It's telling that you don't seem to care at all about the underlying PVP formula being broken and heavily slanted towards gear/stat buffs/avatar.

I'm still waiting on any evidence really since your patch note is both inconclusive and contradicts the Luclin bow parse. I'm not the person you have to convince though. I don't know why it was implemented the way it was, just that it's been that way on P99 since ~2011.

There's a very small window where this bug/feature would've been relevant on Live (post 2handed DB buff late Velious and pre Luclin) so it makes sense that no one got around to playing with weighted axes and bows, as evidenced by the fact that we have NO in-era bow parses. You're demanding that the developers completely rewrite the archery formulas while giving them nothing to work with.

[Botten]

There's a very small window where this bug/feature would've been relevant on Live (post 2handed DB buff late Velious and pre Luclin) so it makes sense that no one got around to playing with weighted axes and bows, as evidenced by the fact that we have NO in-era bow parses. You're demanding that the developers completely rewrite the archery formulas while giving them nothing to work with.

He is probably right. If they can't use the current damage bonus, then creating a damage bonus table for those bows that have a long delay due to the inherit fact rangers can sometimes double damage and crit could be a bit of work.

Sigh maybe there just wouldn't be a damage bonus for bows at all then.

But I still stand by the fact that the damage bonus from bows right now using the Weighted Ax in PvE is not doing more damage than meleeing with weapons that often have double attack and allow riposte or (crit and berserk; if an Ogre or Troll warrior)

[Tune]

And yet, they have near 100% accuracy with a good dex vs. agility matchup. It's telling that you don't seem to care at all about the underlying PVP formula being broken and heavily slanted towards gear/stat buffs/avatar.

are we playing the same game? no they dont, not even close


I'm still waiting on any evidence really since your patch note is both inconclusive and contradicts the Luclin bow parse. I'm not the person you have to convince though. I don't know why it was implemented the way it was, just that it's been that way on P99 since ~2011.

no it hasn't , it broke very recently with the 2hd damage bonus patch. PROVE to me it should be broken like the way it is

There's a very small window where this bug/feature would've been relevant on Live (post 2handed DB buff late Velious and pre Luclin) so it makes sense that no one got around to playing with weighted axes and bows, as evidenced by the fact that we have NO in-era bow parses. You're demanding that the developers completely rewrite the archery formulas while giving them nothing to work with.

reaching /cringe

[Tune]

He is probably right. If they can't use the current damage bonus, then creating a damage bonus table for those bows that have a long delay due to the inherit fact rangers can sometimes double damage and crit could be a bit of work.

Sigh maybe there just wouldn't be a damage bonus for bows at all then.

But I still stand by the fact that the damage bonus from bows right now using the Weighted Ax in PvE is not doing more damage than meleeing with weapons that often have double attack and allow riposte or (crit and berserk; if an Ogre or Troll warrior)

thats simply not true if u can bow outside of fear range when u would normally get feared / killed by aoes

[Tune]

Would be really cool for rangers to benefit with a damage bonus based on the delay of the bow. And I have a ranger!

And maybe damage bonus was added base on bow delay back then as suggested.

But to just to play devil's advocate for a second.

Are we really talking about adding something like 75 damage to something like:
https://wiki.project1999.com/Efreeti_War_Bow
40/100

And before you say yeah it is fine! It works with melee weapons with a long delay (it is the same thing)!

Please realize WITHOUT true shot rangers (if the mob is occupied) do double damage every shot. Figure in also crits and may see where I am going with this.

And then.... God forbid they then use trueshoot discipline.

Then that would truly be a problem on blue servers; not just red servers.
It would be my Luclin dreams in Velious era.

And what about bows like:
https://wiki.project1999.com/Bow_of_the_Underfoot
33/60
Bow from a rock golem in the hole; it would have an added damage of 49 with double damage and crit it would more than likely do more damage than:
https://wiki.project1999.com/Bow_of_the_Destroyer
10/17
a bow from Temple of Veeshan

You can't see it now but I putting on a sad panda face thinking about the fact nothing will be given to archery to avoid yet another problem.

I just can't see them adding a damage bonus on the delay of a bow.

adding to the damage bonus to the bows is fine

the efreeti war bow has 100 Delay, 75 damage bonus is justified

the problem here is they are getting a 150 damage bonus on something that is 17 delay

like how is this even a debate

[Heywood]

can confirm tune is just mad that he lost the server and thinks bowquest is the reason.

Bows working as intended.

Moved to resolved.

[Tune]

can confirm tune is just mad that he lost the server and thinks bowquest is the reason.

Bows working as intended.

Moved to resolved.

lets stay on topic, but as far as "loosing" goes

the server was a wasteland for 2 years after apex quit.

You then decided to come out of your hiding in <sanctuary> to accomplish 1/2 of what I've done

great win

[Jimjam]

Apesex killed the server (harder than it already was) then quit cos server was killed.

Funderdumbs were good tho.

Edit: sorry the tone of Tunes post had me thinking this was rnf. Please ban if needed. My post is legit as this have been bugging me.

[Tune]

[Fri Oct 22 17:57:16 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:17 2021] You hit Papercuts for 117 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:19 2021] You hit Papercuts for 114 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:20 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:21 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:22 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:23 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:24 2021] You hit Papercuts for 111 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:25 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:26 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:27 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:29 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:30 2021] You hit Papercuts for 124 points of damage.

NEAR 100% accuracy guys

sk bow vs a rog

[Baugi]

NEAR 100% accuracy guys

sk bow vs a rog

Sure seems like mainhand damage bonus isn't that game breaking when the accuracy formula isn't skewed. What was your dex vs. his agility for this fight? I'm guessing bad considering that Papercuts is a primaled rogue.

[Tune]

Sure seems like mainhand damage bonus isn't that game breaking when the accuracy formula isn't skewed. What was your dex vs. his agility for this fight? I'm guessing bad considering that Papercuts is a primaled rogue.

he didnt have primal up

bc he cant hit any1 to proc it

[Gustoo]

You saying that bows miss too much if enemy has high agility?

[Jimjam]

You saying that bows miss too much if enemy has high agility?

Dodge this.

[Botten]

You saying that bows miss too much if enemy has high agility?

With Archery... yes.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Statistics#Dexterity_.28DEX.29

On Red server Dexterity affects PVP hit rate. It does this by comparing your dexterity to your opponent's agility. There is no evidence that Dexterity affects hit rate in PVE.

[reebz]

Lol here we go again. How can anyone think that 6 years into velious the two people involved had anything but 255 Dex or Agi???? Do these people play the same game ????

[Tune]

Lol here we go again. How can anyone think that 6 years into velious the two people involved had anything but 255 Dex or Agi???? Do these people play the same game ????

lots of people dont have 255 dex and agi unbuffed

like its not even a good troll anymore

[reebz]

why arent you buffed? doesnt focus last like an hour and a half ?

I just honestly dont remember ever not having focus unless i was stripped in PvP

it really doesnt make sense 2 me

[Tune]

this just gonna get ignored patch after patch?

ffs server is hopeless

[Jimjam]

this just gonna get ignored patch after patch?

ffs server is hopeless

Can't believe it didn't make it.

Aye, time to change server.

I suggest rolling a child of discord on green.

See you real soon!

[Penish]

this just gonna get ignored patch after patch?

ffs server is hopeless

translation; wahhhhh my 30 pop box

no one cares retard, move on, holy fuck

[reebz]

Tune how can you have played here since Classic and actually think it will get fixed?

[Gustoo]

It’s just another example of the game mechanics actually making a difference when pvp is involved.

Can anyone tell me if any of the blue gang figured out how to optimize bows on p99 or was it purely a red discovery?

[Botten]

It’s just another example of the game mechanics actually making a difference when pvp is involved.

Can anyone tell me if any of the blue gang figured out how to optimize bows on p99 or was it purely a red discovery?

It tried it on blue.

It isn't worth it.

Even with the perfect gear. Max Haste, Primal Bow etc...

A. You can do a hell of a lot more damage via Melee

B. Skill plays a big factor when hitting the only boss mobs that utilize AoE (to make this worth it) 240 archery vs 250 melee expect misses

Speaking of skill I tried for LoLs on an SK Orge Shadow Knight and in PVE ... it is pathetic.

Seriously Whiff Whiff Whiff.... SKs only have a 75 Archery skill

Skill doesn't play a factor in PvP.

C. You can't double or triple hit with archery

D. The huge delay on the ax makes the difference and you can't even use it on something like ... I don't know... a ranger. The closest long delay weapon for a ranger is the Earthshaker.. that thing is only 70 delay vs 150 and it is not really easy to find. Last one sold was on blue by Tankiee on 2021-07-06. Ranger in Melee all the way.

E. Arrows aren't unlimited (especially for SKs and Warriors) and when was the last time in a group a warrior was allowed to just sit back and fire arrows as oppose to be a main or secondary tank.

Using any of this on blue is just ridiculously silly. I think earlier in this thread a Troll Warrior tried vs Trak and the damage was piss poor.

So yeah this effects Red server and PvP and who knows it probably was part of classic and because it only really affected PvP it probably was never noticed and before Archery really shined with Luclin.

I do think the easiest bandaid that NO one will care about is just make the Ax None/None ... it was really only meant to be vendor trash.

[Gustoo]

I’m just curious if a blue player discovered the mechanic first or if it was discovered on red.

Because I want to make the point that Pvp encourages people to really understand what all their items do.

[Disease]

I’m just curious if a blue player discovered the mechanic first or if it was discovered on red.

Because I want to make the point that Pvp encourages people to really understand what all their items do.

Was discovered on blue, word spread to red many years after blue used and abused this method. Sorry you guys were late.

We also aren't some chatty patty snitches making bug reports. Red players been soft.

[Gustoo]

Proof? I’m curious. Was it discussed in old mechanics discussions?

Remember when kunark launched on red first? I didn’t realize that was so epic.

[Disease]

Proof? I’m curious. Was it discussed in old mechanics discussions?

Remember when kunark launched on red first? I didn’t realize that was so epic.

It was first used the first couple weeks of kunark. A warrior named " Laperra" discovered it and had a youtube video of him leveling 50-60 with it. This works on most eq emu servers. I don't have live to test it.

[Gustoo]

Thanks for the reference I appreciate it.

[Imago]

Bump

[Tune]

pretty sad people actually want to comeback and dabble

but get un-immersed with this broken shit

[Kief]

let me spell it out for you tune. the gm's do not give 2 flying fucks about Red server. or blue or green. they just want it functional enough to get donations and nerd lord over simp male he she tranny freaks.

let this place go dude. you too good a dude to be holding onto this shit.

[Disease]

let me spell it out for you tune. the gm's do not give 2 flying fucks about Red server. or blue or green. they just want it functional enough to get donations and nerd lord over simp male he she tranny freaks.

let this place go dude. you too good a dude to be holding onto this shit.

Yet you are here lol and show back every day for the last 10 years. How about you let go and just don't come back lol

[Kief]

yeah bro totally i have 180 posts ( 160 of them when i started playing with perdition like the past year).

im totally here every day like you bud. self projection much? go slop on that knob and get the angst outa ya boy. girl. whatever the fuck you are.

[Baugi]

( 160 of them when i started playing with perdition like the past year).

For the record, this poster has no affiliation with Perdition.

[Disease]

For the record, this poster has no affiliation with Perdition.

It's OK. I had him banned for gay slurs. Perdition have always been a cool and normal guild.

[ylarik24]

Bump 200+ damage bow shots from any big class that can carry a weighted axe. Precision with bow of the destroy and a weighted axe= GG

[Flame of Anor]

This is ridiculous. Please fix this.

[ylarik24]

Finally a response looks to be getting fixed thank you @telin

[Bigcountry23]

I want to thank you all for this thread. I had stalled out at 35 on my Barb Warrior due to not being able to find groups. After reading this, I started playing around with mobs I would normally only be able to play with on a caster. Was able to start killing specs and giants at 35 and within a week I'm past hell level 45, all solo.

This is incredible!

[Botten]

I want to thank you all for this thread. I had stalled out at 35 on my Barb Warrior due to not being able to find groups. After reading this, I started playing around with mobs I would normally only be able to play with on a caster. Was able to start killing specs and giants at 35 and within a week I'm past hell level 45, all solo.

This is incredible!

This would mean you have means to get arrows from either a ranger, mage or vendor (purchasing)

As a Barbarian you don't have access to the Weighted Ax

And there are damage caps so you aren't going to do a lot of damage.

Let alone the question where you got constant movement speed buff in order to range and damage these mobs.

[Bigcountry23]

Have a Guise so I can buy arrows in Oggok.
Barbs DO have access to Weighted axe.
Jboot speed is enough to keep specs away running backwards (Giants I auto run and mouse look back for each shot).
My low is in the 60s and high non-crit is in the 100s.

[Jimjam]

Mroon's Toy is pretty good 2hander for bowerin. Only complaint is it looks like a staff, not a doll on equipped model.

[ylarik24]

thankfully fix is coming

[Botten]

Have a Guise so I can buy arrows in Oggok.
Barbs DO have access to Weighted axe.
Jboot speed is enough to keep specs away running backwards (Giants I auto run and mouse look back for each shot).
My low is in the 60s and high non-crit is in the 100s.

I did this on my ranger with sow. Your character gets auto turned to look at what you are shooting. It disrupts your run away enough to get hit by the mob without pain stakingly shoot a single arrow only then try to get far enough away again. And for a poor soloing barb you had the cash and ability purchase a these items. Why not fungi and melee then. Hell get the bandage dagger from velious cheap! The method above sounds ridiculously Inefficient.

[Botten]

I want to thank you all for this thread. I had stalled out at 35 on my Barb Warrior due to not being able to find groups. After reading this, I started playing around with mobs I would normally only be able to play with on a caster. Was able to start killing specs and giants at 35 and within a week I'm past hell level 45, all solo.

This is incredible!

I just visited this location to duplicate what you did.

Yeah you are using the water to snare and avoid aggro of mobs.

P99 changed the ability recently for floating casters hit mobs with spells in water for this reason.
I see you are taking advantage of this.

If you have cash for arrows and jboots you may as well just pay for bandage and or other gear I can't imagine your melee offensive skills or defensive skill are getting raised bow kite over water all day. Just say as before there is a better way. This is such an issue on Red because of the fact PvP doesn't use weapon skill and rather agility vs Dex to determine hit. So yeah a caster sitting while getting hit with a bow hurts.

No need to tread close to the interpretation of PvE rule of play when the damage is equivalent or lower in most cases.

[Imago]

I just visited this location to duplicate what you did.

Yeah you are using the water to snare and avoid aggro of mobs.

P99 changed the ability recently for floating casters hit mobs with spells in water for this reason.
I see you are taking advantage of this.

If you have cash for arrows and jboots you may as well just pay for bandage and or other gear I can't imagine your melee offensive skills or defensive skill are getting raised bow kite over water all day. Just say as before there is a better way. This is such an issue on Red because of the fact PvP doesn't use weapon skill and rather agility vs Dex to determine hit. So yeah a caster sitting while getting hit with a bow hurts.

No need to tread close to the interpretation of PvE rule of play when the damage is equivalent or lower in most cases.

Starting to sound real desperate

[Botten]

Starting to sound real desperate

How so I have been a big contributor on the thread. Read through. The damage in PvE is absolute garbage you can do a lot more damage in melee . It has been talked to death and why this effect PvP most. The only one desperate to have this hot fixed is Tune who is rightfully upset since he can’t combat it in PvP. Stop Trolling with nonsense.

[Darkone]

for whatever it is worth pretty much all of my euro crew is not playing red99 because of this stupid pvp meta, anyone defending bowquest is a bluebie that wants red99 to stay blue because it levels out the playing field between bad players and good ones if you can just spam your bow, it literally takes zero skill

[Botten]

for whatever it is worth pretty much all of my euro crew is not playing red99 because of this stupid pvp meta, anyone defending bowquest is a bluebie that wants red99 to stay blue because it levels out the playing field between bad players and good ones if you can just spam your bow, it literally takes zero skill

Nothing about PvP in Everquest was very balanced. For proof of this look no further than the bard doing something similar to bow exploits. Getting pop shots without the means to stop it.

No I suspect this bothers more the old school players with the upper level gear that have been playing long enough they don't want to modify their play style. Basically I don't want to get a set of AGI gear or learn other methods. And I get it, outdoors the range on these bows can be high.

Does this completely break PvP for all? Not at all because the only ones abusing this really are Barbarian, Ogre and/or Trolls - Warriors and/or Shadowknights forced to buy or get their arrows from other sources.

I would argue, you are truly good, if you aren't willing to get the right gear again for this already unbalance pvp game.

This is coming from a person who has dabbled with this as a 60 warrior ogre and decked out ranger with the earthshaking, cl-icky haste cloak from sky, Clock of Flames, Fleeting Quiver and 4th best dmg/ratio bow.

You can do the same on one of the gm enabled servers.
And in each scenario I have seen this isn't worth it in PvE vs PvP. Hot fixing this for the low population of Red just isn't worth it. And beside you saw, it is getting fixed.
So Meh..

[reebz]

Ya Tunes upset because he doesn't want to get a set of AGI gear lol

[Baugi]

for whatever it is worth pretty much all of my euro crew is not playing red99 because of this stupid pvp meta, anyone defending bowquest is a bluebie that wants red99 to stay blue because it levels out the playing field between bad players and good ones if you can just spam your bow, it literally takes zero skill

The meta isn't going to change much either way heh. Most of the loud voices in this thread are windy rangers.

[Imago]

Hey guys it's clear this isn't working as intended, whether by the P99 Staff or original EQ devs, but honestly, isn't that what this game is all about? In fact, we should be rewarding ourselves for finding new and creative ways to play the game as it is presented to us! In fact, why even bother having any kind of bug forum - if the mechanics are in the game at this moment, it must be exactly what we deserve.
So Meh..

[Botten]

Changing a persons quote is really frowned on by these forums. Especially rewriting it.

I don't get it Imago. You are playing on an emulator of a game hosted for free.

Demanding an immediate fix that only affects a small population of players and characters who have this limited race/class who exploit this in PvP.

Have some humbleness they acknowledge it and are trying to fix it but it doesn't warrant a hot fix and drop all resources to fix NOW.

Hell want fix the code yourself and part of the solution:

https://github.com/EQEmu/Server/blob/master/zone/attack.cpp


if (hit.skill == EQ::skills::SkillArchery ||
(hit.skill == EQ::skills::SkillThrowing && GetClass() != BERSERKER))
hit.damage_done /= 2;

if (hit.damage_done < 1)
hit.damage_done = 1;

if (hit.skill == EQ::skills::SkillArchery) {
int bonus = aabonuses.ArcheryDamageModifier + itembonuses.ArcheryDamageModifier + spellbonuses.ArcheryDamageModifier;
hit.damage_done += hit.damage_done * bonus / 100;
int headshot = TryHeadShot(defender, hit.skill);
if (headshot > 0) {
hit.damage_done = headshot;
}
else if (GetClass() == RANGER && GetLevel() > 50) { // no double dmg on headshot
if ((defender->IsNPC() && !defender->IsMoving() && !defender->IsRooted()) || !RuleB(Combat, ArcheryBonusRequiresStationary)) {
hit.damage_done *= 2;
MessageString(Chat::MeleeCrit, BOW_DOUBLE_DAMAGE);
}
}
}

[Imago]

I don't get it Imago. You are playing on an emulator of a game hosted for free.

Demanding an immediate fix that only affects a small population of players and characters who have this limited race/class who exploit this in PvP.


I am not demanding anything from the Devs. I appreciate what they do, and any interaction with them has always started and ended with "thank you for being you and doing god's work." I will continue to do so, since I understand that what they do is a thankless job.

What I am demanding is that you recognize how stupid you sound when you try to defend this bug and its place in the game. There are plenty of people saying "this is stupid, clearly not working as intended by the P99 devs nor original intent, and should be fixed" and you pipe up and try to make arguments as to why it shouldn't be fixed.

What I want is for you to admit that this does not belong in the game that we play together and leave this thread alone. All you have done is shit it up with your opinions on why this shouldn't be addressed.

[reebz]

The GMs here are ass I don't recall ever thanking any of them. Amelinda? Sirken? Zade or w/e his name is. Any of the other elf police that showed up on red to fuck things up for a few months then dissappear. Ya no thanks.

[Jimjam]

Whats the quality of GMs got to do with the price of fish? Surely this is a dev issue if anything?

[Botten]

I am not demanding anything from the Devs. I appreciate what they do, and any interaction with them has always started and ended with "thank you for being you and doing god's work." I will continue to do so, since I understand that what they do is a thankless job.

What I am demanding is that you recognize how stupid you sound when you try to defend this bug and its place in the game. There are plenty of people saying "this is stupid, clearly not working as intended by the P99 devs nor original intent, and should be fixed" and you pipe up and try to make arguments as to why it shouldn't be fixed.

What I want is for you to admit that this does not belong in the game that we play together and leave this thread alone. All you have done is shit it up with your opinions on why this shouldn't be addressed.

No offense. You need read. Look at all my past posts in this thread. Every single post had stated that this is a bug and should be fixed but didn't warrant a hot fix because it affected a small population of PvP and was a near moot issue in PvE.

The only one freaking out about is Tune.

Unless you are Tune you should be able to realize this.

[reebz]

Devs don't give a hoot about red

File this under not getting fixed

Red is dead. It's not because of this ranged garbage but it probably sucks for the 1 or 2 people who might log in through the week to try and "pvp'

[Imago]

Not gonna lie, I jumped on you because I confused you with Baugi.

[Disease]

No offense. You need read. Look at all my past posts in this thread. Every single post had stated that this is a bug and should be fixed but didn't warrant a hot fix because it affected a small population of PvP and was a near moot issue in PvE.

The only one freaking out about is Tune.

Unless you are Tune you should be able to realize this.

Imago is Tune....

[Gustoo]

Weighted axe on full luclin geared warrior is the ultimate super meta with heavy duty HD sniper rifle bow. File under working as intended.

Anyone not knowing how easy it is to fletch when you can hold ALT or whatever to grab one from a stack is a goof ball. with a bag full of components you've got plenty of top quality arrows that don't cost that much money. k-blam

[Tune]

wtt full windstriker

[Gustoo]

I once got hit by a bow so hard I deleveled even though I didn't die.

[Buellen]

Not sure this is code used by p1999

eq emulator code i found from q quick search: http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6100

"// This is a Ranged Weapon Attack / Bow
const Item_Struct* Rangeweapon = 0;
const Item_Struct* Ammo = 0;
Rangeweapon = database.GetItem(pp.inventory[11]);
Ammo = database.GetItem(pp.inventory[21]);

if (!Rangeweapon) {
Message(0, "Error: Rangeweapon: GetItem(%i)==0, you have nothing to throw!", pp.inventory[11]);
break;
}

if (!Ammo) {
Message(0, "Error: Ammo: GetItem(%i)==0, you have nothing to throw!", pp.inventory[11]);
break;
}

uint8 WDmg = Rangeweapon->common.damage;
uint8 ADmg = Ammo->common.damage;

// These dmg formulae were taken from all over the net.
//No-one knows but Verant. This should be fairly close -BoB
// ** ToDO: take into account trueshot disc (x2.0) and
// Archery Mastery AA when they are available.
// I am still looking for 'double' information too.
// Note: Rangers have a chance of crit dmg with a bow (affected by Dex)

uint8 levelBonus = (pp.STR+pp.level+GetSkill(ARCHERY)) / 100;
uint8 MaxDmg = (WDmg+ADmg)*levelBonus;

sint32 TotalDmg = 0;
sint32 critDmg = 0;

if(GetClass()==RANGER)
{
critDmg = (sint32)(MaxDmg * 1.72);
}

if (MaxDmg == 0)
MaxDmg = 1;

TotalDmg = 1 + rand()%MaxDmg;

// TODO: post 50 dmg bonus
// TODO: Tone down the PvP dmg
// borrowed this from attack.cpp
// chance to hit

float chancetohit = GetSkill(ARCHERY) / 3.75;
if (pp.level-target->GetLevel() &lt; 0) {
chancetohit -= (float)((target->GetLevel()-pp.level)*(target->GetLevel()-pp.level))/4;
}

int16 targetagi = target->GetAGI();
int16 playerDex = (int16)(this->itembonuses->DEX + this->spellbonuses->DEX)/2;

targetagi = (targetagi &lt;= 200) ? targetagi:targetagi + ((targetagi-200)/5);

chancetohit -= (float)targetagi*0.05;

chancetohit += playerDex;
chancetohit = (chancetohit > 0) ? chancetohit+30:30;
chancetohit = chancetohit > 95 ? 95 : chancetohit; /* cap to 95% */

// Hit?
if (((float)rand()/RAND_MAX)*100 > chancetohit)
{
this->Message(MT_Emote, "You missed your target");
target->CastToNPC()->Damage(this, 0, 0xffff, 0x07);
}
else
{
// no crits before level 12 cap is maxed
if((GetClass()==RANGER)&amp;&amp;(GetSkill(ARCHERY )>65)&amp;&amp;(rand()%255&lt;(GetSkill(ARCHERY)+p layerDex)/2)&amp;&amp;(chancetohit > 85))
{
this->Message(MT_Emote, "You score a critical hit!(%d)", critDmg);
target->CastToNPC()->Damage(this, critDmg, 0xffff, 0x07);
}
else
{
this->Message(MT_Emote, "You Hit for a total of %d non-melee damage.", TotalDmg);
target->CastToNPC()->Damage(this, TotalDmg, 0xffff, 0x07);
}



So, from this we see max damage is ..

uint8 WDmg = Rangeweapon->common.damage;
uint8 ADmg = Ammo->common.damage;
// These dmg formulae were taken from all over the net.
//No-one knows but Verant. This should be fairly close -BoB
// ** ToDO: take into account trueshot disc (x2.0) and
// Archery Mastery AA when they are available.
// I am still looking for 'double' information too.
// Note: Rangers have a chance of crit dmg with a bow (affected by Dex)

uint8 levelBonus = (pp.STR+pp.level+GetSkill(ARCHERY)) / 100;
uint8 MaxDmg = (WDmg+ADmg)*levelBonus;
sint32 TotalDmg = 0;
sint32 critDmg = 0;


So, max damage should for a 150 damage bow with dmg. 7 arrows,

(150+7) * lvlBonus, where levelbonus is STR+LEVEL+SKILL/100, so assume a Str of 100, level of 20, and skill of 100, and you get 220/100 = 2 by integer division, so max damage should be

157*2 = 314

Then

if (MaxDmg == 0)
MaxDmg = 1;
TotalDmg = 1 + rand()%MaxDmg;

so, damage done on a noncrit for a 150 damage weapon should be
between 1 and 315...
"

[Botten]

so, damage done on a noncrit for a 150 damage weapon should be
between 1 and 315...
"

See this is where it bothers me most.

This is true on P99. But on live this wasn't true.

Rangers in 2001 were hitting much much high damage.

P1999 has archery wrong. Don't get me wrong. Archery was still not worth it to use before Luclin but it wasn't as pitful as blue server paints it for rangers.

I mean look at the post here.
https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=5522&p=2#comments

A log of its damage
Quote
Reply
#
Apr 06 2001 at 9:07 PM Rating: Excellent
__DEL__1592756515749

[Thu Apr 05 00:36:53 2001] Darby hits YOU for 532 points of damage.

Later he beat his high hit and got 600+

And he wasn't even level 60!!!!
(he was using Tolan's bracer summoned arrows)

Worse someone said later they saw him hit for 900+

And then there were others saying they had done 1000+ damage

All during 2001!!!!

I just don't get it were they all lying??!!?!??

You just can't do that kind of high hitting damage on P99 as a ranger.

And so it has been said that Archery damage using the bonus damage from the delay on the main hand weapon will be removed in a future patch but ultimately got to wonder does P99 have the damage possibility correct when it comes to Archery on a whole?

I decided to try a ranger with a Earthshaker, Tolan Arrows, 255 str and Exquisite Velium Reinforced Bow... yeah they hit for a max of 153 (with out using disc, no double damage an no crit)
That is it.

[reebz]

Ya this is never getting fixed

[Cwall 146.0]

it's working as intended

move to resolved

[heartbrand]

it's working as intended

move to resolved

Correct, this is working as intended.

[Tune]

lol,

just lol

[Barik]

See this is where it bothers me most.

This is true on P99. But on live this wasn't true.

Rangers in 2001 were hitting much much high damage.

P1999 has archery wrong. Don't get me wrong. Archery was still not worth it to use before Luclin but it wasn't as pitful as blue server paints it for rangers.

I mean look at the post here.
https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=5522&p=2#comments

A log of its damage
Quote
Reply
#
Apr 06 2001 at 9:07 PM Rating: Excellent
__DEL__1592756515749

[Thu Apr 05 00:36:53 2001] Darby hits YOU for 532 points of damage.

Later he beat his high hit and got 600+

And he wasn't even level 60!!!!
(he was using Tolan's bracer summoned arrows)

Worse someone said later they saw him hit for 900+

And then there were others saying they had done 1000+ damage

All during 2001!!!!

I just don't get it were they all lying??!!?!??

You just can't do that kind of high hitting damage on P99 as a ranger.

And so it has been said that Archery damage using the bonus damage from the delay on the main hand weapon will be removed in a future patch but ultimately got to wonder does P99 have the damage possibility correct when it comes to Archery on a whole?

I decided to try a ranger with a Earthshaker, Tolan Arrows, 255 str and Exquisite Velium Reinforced Bow... yeah they hit for a max of 153 (with out using disc, no double damage an no crit)
That is it.

Shadows of Luclin came out in 2001, hope this helps.

[Botten]

Shadows of Luclin came out in 2001, hope this helps.

Don't be that troll because you only humiliate yourself.

Luclin release date was December 4, 2001

There isn't a post in that forum link (https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=5522&p=2#comments) on or after the time Luclin was released.

The indication from those posts is archery damage output on live, even before Luclin - was not worth it BUT was a that is a lot more than P1999 currently.

[Barik]

I'm not sure man, are you sure ?

[Rick Sanchez]

I'm 100% sure barik is fucking with you.

[Barik]

yes I can google when SoL dropped I just wanted to be a prick and make you realize that they don't care about red.

[Uton]

lol,

just lol

Tune never used a bow ever. except that one time he bowed a mob outside dozz and trained the raid that still killed dozz.

failure on a sim box & failure at life

[Infectious]

Tune never used a bow ever. except that one time he bowed a mob outside dozz and trained the raid that still killed dozz.

failure on a sim box & failure at life

This is why you guys don't get a new server. You post bugs, troll each other and so on. Grow up and take some accountability. How do you expect gms to even help you guys?

[magnetaress]

This is why you guys don't get a new server. You post bugs, troll each other and so on. Grow up and take some accountability. How do you expect gms to even help you guys?

These ppl probably play on green even and not red.

[reebz]

Who is infectious? Why does he think people still play here

[Infectious]

Who is infectious? Why does he think people still play here

You didn't have a problem with me when we were guided in friends? Don't you have a pocket to hold.

[Patrece]

Current red players got dunked by the bluebies, disregard them

[Salaryman]

whats up with all these mads bads and sads playing on blue/green talking on some contest that wasnt even on red. you bluebies are cowards. pls fix bug

[Thrilla]

Bumping this post. Has there been any response from P99 admins and leadership on this? I thought this was supposed to be as close to a classic experience as possible, but it has made all PvP engagements a ranged attack spam fest and it also actively deluding mob difficulty by certain guilds that use this broken mechanic along with rooted dragons to cheese down mobs.

Nobody ran around on Rallos Zek live with bows chunking people down. It isn't classic.

Can dev at least define a LOE to get this fixed? I'm sure more than a handful of people would be willing to hit that donate button if it meant this got attention in a decent amount of time. This post is over 2 years old. In before the red is dead comments, I still like to login occasionally and I don't like feeling like Ace Ventura, ya dig

https://tenor.com/view/ace-ventura-arrow-oww-pain-which-one-gif-18966955

[Awsten_Tx]

Bumping this post. Has there been any response from P99 admins and leadership on this? I thought this was supposed to be as close to a classic experience as possible, but it has made all PvP engagements a ranged attack spam fest and it also actively deluding mob difficulty by certain guilds that use this broken mechanic along with rooted dragons to cheese down mobs.

Nobody ran around on Rallos Zek live with bows chunking people down. It isn't classic.

Can dev at least define a LOE to get this fixed? I'm sure more than a handful of people would be willing to hit that donate button if it meant this got attention in a decent amount of time. This post is over 2 years old. In before the red is dead comments, I still like to login occasionally and I don't like feeling like Ace Ventura, ya dig

https://tenor.com/view/ace-ventura-arrow-oww-pain-which-one-gif-18966955

I have been standing on my head trying to get this fixed, not necessarily from a PVP standpoint (though that matters too) but from a ranger perspective.

Classic Rangers performed far better in archery than on P99 due to this bug. It needs to be fixed.

[ReadOnly]

Bowquest is not good. Hopefully staff has something in the works.

[Ezpk]

I agree bowquest is busted to a certain extent and should be addressed, however - until people put in the leg work and figure out the actual formula and run tests with logs similar to how Lovely would provide extensive feedback at launch, there won't be any updates outside of dev input. I remember getting smacked around here n there all the time to test #s. If we want to fix bowquest, we'll have to figure out a fix for the coding and why it is the way it is.

Quoting most previous post relating to the actual code below -
Changing a persons quote is really frowned on by these forums. Especially rewriting it.

I don't get it Imago. You are playing on an emulator of a game hosted for free.

Demanding an immediate fix that only affects a small population of players and characters who have this limited race/class who exploit this in PvP.

Have some humbleness they acknowledge it and are trying to fix it but it doesn't warrant a hot fix and drop all resources to fix NOW.

Hell want fix the code yourself and part of the solution:

https://github.com/EQEmu/Server/blob/master/zone/attack.cpp


if (hit.skill == EQ::skills::SkillArchery ||
(hit.skill == EQ::skills::SkillThrowing && GetClass() != BERSERKER))
hit.damage_done /= 2;

if (hit.damage_done < 1)
hit.damage_done = 1;

if (hit.skill == EQ::skills::SkillArchery) {
int bonus = aabonuses.ArcheryDamageModifier + itembonuses.ArcheryDamageModifier + spellbonuses.ArcheryDamageModifier;
hit.damage_done += hit.damage_done * bonus / 100;
int headshot = TryHeadShot(defender, hit.skill);
if (headshot > 0) {
hit.damage_done = headshot;
}
else if (GetClass() == RANGER && GetLevel() > 50) { // no double dmg on headshot
if ((defender->IsNPC() && !defender->IsMoving() && !defender->IsRooted()) || !RuleB(Combat, ArcheryBonusRequiresStationary)) {
hit.damage_done *= 2;
MessageString(Chat::MeleeCrit, BOW_DOUBLE_DAMAGE);
}
}
}


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is where we need to pickup from if we want real results going forward.

[Infectious]

I agree bowquest is busted to a certain extent and should be addressed, however - until people put in the leg work and figure out the actual formula and run tests with logs similar to how Lovely would provide extensive feedback at launch, there won't be any updates outside of dev input. I remember getting smacked around here n there all the time to test #s. If we want to fix bowquest, we'll have to figure out a fix for the coding and why it is the way it is.

Quoting most previous post relating to the actual code below -


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is where we need to pickup from if we want real results going forward.

It's been proven to be classic in pve and pvp. Red players are always late to the party of course

[Awsten_Tx]

It's been proven to be classic in pve and pvp. Red players are always late to the party of course

Lolwut!?!?!

P99 archery mechanics arent even close to classic...

Please post evidence.

[Thrilla]

Proven to be classic by who? I don’t remember getting bowed once from classic through velious in PvP outside of rangers on live. Granted, people have had 24 years to find quirks in the game but when warriors refuse to get into range of casters and kite them out in a open area, giving the caster no ability to get close without eventually taking enough damage to die, its broken, classic or not. This thread has been out here forever, so doubt it gets fixed. It also affects pve.

[Thrilla]

PvP now, pals

exhibit A:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exITYqFTxyY&feature=youtu.be

exhibit B:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyDP3liDF8A

[magnetaress]

Glad this thred is still going lol.

Try project quarm, you may have better luck over there !

PvP now, pals

exhibit A:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exITYqFTxyY&feature=youtu.be

exhibit B:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyDP3liDF8A

The necros where winning? It's hard to tell.

1v1 pvp was always very LULOLZ in EQ

[Thrilla]

Glad this thred is still going lol.

Try project quarm, you may have better luck over there !



The necros where winning? It's hard to tell.

1v1 pvp was always very LULOLZ in EQ

Wasn’t intended to define a winner

Didn’t fight the first time cause i knew how it was going to go based on reaction from jump. 2nd time was for the laughs on the current state of r99 PvP. Something about watching a fatty OOR bow quest hotkey vs a clothie is great.. Fun times. Excited for next patch (insert sarcasm here)

[Platexchange]

lol's 3 years later, still bowquesting because the 5 minutes to fix it seems like too much time to invest in R99.

[Penish]

lol's 3 years later, still bowquesting because the 5 minutes to fix it seems like too much time to invest in R99.

yeah im sure catering to 25 degenerate meth heads is a top priority

lawl

[Ezpk]

Hitting for 50+ every arrow without weighted axe still seems pretty OP

[Imago]

Bump

[Telin]

This thread is filled with useless posts making it difficult to find good data.

If someone would like to take the time, please organize a post with the in-era evidence for how, if any, damage bonuses should apply to range. Thanks!

[nilbog]

Cleaned up the latest replies. Don't troll bug threads.

[Awsten_Tx]

Cleaned up the latest replies. Don't troll bug threads.
In an effort to get this thread back on track, I am reposting what I have found regarding trueshot and bow bonuses...

I dont know if this has been reviewed, but I have found the following patch notes which give insight into how trueshot worked, and thus how archery performed using 2 different patch notes.
-
------------------------------
January 9, 2001 3:00 am
------------------------------
- Corrected a bug that was causing damage while using the "Trueshot"
Discipline to be the same regardless of the quality of your bow.

This patch, changed the mechanics of trueshot whereas before it made the damage 45, regardless of the bow delay. Sony made this change, then analyzed the damage of rangers, and subsequently made the following change a week later.
-
------------------------------
January 17, 2001 3:00 am
------------------------------
The ranger's "Trueshot" discipline has had its damage increased after
analyzing data from its fix last week. Prior to the last patch, all
bows, while under the discipline, were hitting as if they were 45dmg
bows regardless of the delay. Last week's patch fixed it so that damage
was based on the damage of the bow. This weeks patch increases damage
bonuses in relation to delay (longer delays yield better damage
bonuses).

This patch specifically tells us that Trueshot yielded better damage bonuses for rangers based on the delay of the bow. In my opinion, this means two things. Bow had their own independent damage bonus (separate from whatever weapon was in primary slot), and 2, Trueshot would amplify the damage bonus. Sony straight up said, longer delays yielded better damage bonuses.

[Thrilla]

In an effort to get this thread back on track, I am reposting what I have found regarding trueshot and bow bonuses...

I dont know if this has been reviewed, but I have found the following patch notes which give insight into how trueshot worked, and thus how archery performed using 2 different patch notes.
-
------------------------------
January 9, 2001 3:00 am
------------------------------
- Corrected a bug that was causing damage while using the "Trueshot"
Discipline to be the same regardless of the quality of your bow.

This patch, changed the mechanics of trueshot whereas before it made the damage 45, regardless of the bow delay. Sony made this change, then analyzed the damage of rangers, and subsequently made the following change a week later.
-
------------------------------
January 17, 2001 3:00 am
------------------------------
The ranger's "Trueshot" discipline has had its damage increased after
analyzing data from its fix last week. Prior to the last patch, all
bows, while under the discipline, were hitting as if they were 45dmg
bows regardless of the delay. Last week's patch fixed it so that damage
was based on the damage of the bow. This weeks patch increases damage
bonuses in relation to delay (longer delays yield better damage
bonuses).

This patch specifically tells us that Trueshot yielded better damage bonuses for rangers based on the delay of the bow. In my opinion, this means two things. Bow had their own independent damage bonus (separate from whatever weapon was in primary slot), and 2, Trueshot would amplify the damage bonus. Sony straight up said, longer delays yielded better damage bonuses.

For a ranger, not up on my EQemu code, but how would that automatically apply to fatties? Never got bowed once from a fatty on live through velious. Lots of stuff that isn't classic on this box, nerfed clickies, casted pumices, fatties bowing is game breaking, regardless. just my 2c.

[Botten]

Per Awsten_Tx's information kinda clues into what may have happened.
Perhaps main hand delay became the blanket damage bonus by mistake.

- Main hand bonus damage based on delay of weapon was added a while back.
- A similar bonus damage based on delay was applied to bows.
- Along with the TrueShot buff and the delay damage bonus on bows then players see the damage described by rangers here:

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=5522&p=2#m99021051596414

May 18 2001 at 1:28 PM Rating: Default
Acutally highest critical using trueshot on the glade is said to be 1100ish on a velk the sorcery. The bow was a efetti bow. Since delay is one of the factors in damage on trueshot. IE higher delay larger hits.

Kinwen

And

Jun 05 2001 at 10:20 PM Rating: Default

You are correct, high delay does aid with higher hits.
The hardest I have seen Darby hit with this is now 902.
He needs to work on his archery! ;)
-bort

[Thrilla]

Per Awsten_Tx's information kinda clues into what may have happened.
Perhaps main hand delay became the blanket damage bonus by mistake.

- Main hand bonus damage based on delay of weapon was added a while back.
- A similar bonus damage based on delay was applied to bows.
- Along with the TrueShot buff and the delay damage bonus on bows then players see the damage described by rangers here:

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=5522&p=2#m99021051596414

May 18 2001 at 1:28 PM Rating: Default
Acutally highest critical using trueshot on the glade is said to be 1100ish on a velk the sorcery. The bow was a efetti bow. Since delay is one of the factors in damage on trueshot. IE higher delay larger hits.

Kinwen

And

Jun 05 2001 at 10:20 PM Rating: Default

You are correct, high delay does aid with higher hits.
The hardest I have seen Darby hit with this is now 902.
He needs to work on his archery! ;)
-bort

Range attack spam seems unaffected by delay? It’s like a machine gun of 130+ dmg hits with fleeting quiver and range that is well beyond of a casters ability to land spells. 30 seconds for a fully geared velious wizard to go from 3400 plus hp including barrier to death.

[Awsten_Tx]

The primary hand damage bonus is a p99 specific bug. No other server, including OG live, modern TLP's, Takp function that way. Bows should have their own independent bonus damage which would correct large race weighted axe abuse.

On top of that, it would help correct the inherent nerf that is exclusive to P99 rangers in regards to archery.

Ranger bonuses should be doubled on anchored targets, and should also be bonused when trueshotting.

[bellhop]

Damage bonus is calculable based on delay and is applies as a flat increase in damage

At player level 60
Weighted Axe = 110 (bis large war/sk)
Gromlok's Basher = 66 (bis non-large war/sk)
Earthshaker = 56 (bis pal/rng)
OT Hammer = 42 (rog)

This is the crux of the issue.

Where throwing weapons right now still have a chance to hit for 1 point of damage, the damage bonus on your main hand weapon is making it so that your lowest possible hit with an arrow IS THE DAMAGE BONUS + whatever calculation is happening beyond that to give you what you're actually hitting for.

Why am I able to do this much damage this fast on a Troll Warrior with a Weighted Axe. I'm legit a machine gun fighting kids with knives.

[Mon Dec 21 23:16:20 2020] You hit Gstring for 111 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:43 2020] You hit Gstring for 111 points of damage.


As you can see in Twainz' original post, his lowest hit is the damage bonus of his weighted axe + 1 point of damage.

Within the larger context of a log file from Twainz, he's shooting arrows with a Weighted Axe, and because he's got OTHER HITS on, you're seeing bow damage from Faceoff (Troll SK with Weighted Axe) shooting arrows as well:

[Sat Feb 13 14:42:17 2021] LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:28 2021] You have entered The Overthere.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:38 2021] Vhanilla invites you to join a group.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:38 2021] To join the group, click on the 'FOLLOW' option, or 'DISBAND' to cancel.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:43 2021] Bogey tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:43 2021] You notify Vhanilla that you agree to join the group.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:44 2021] You have joined the group.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:44 2021] Your target is too close to use a ranged weapon!!
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:45 2021] Melodie lets loose a piercing blast.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:45 2021] Baugi begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:46 2021] Bogey hits Vhanilla for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:46 2021] You hit Baugi for 187 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:47 2021] Your feet move faster.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:48 2021] Bogey tries to hit Vhanilla, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:48 2021] Vhanilla reels in pain and loses concentration.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:48 2021] You hit Baugi for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:49 2021] Bogey tries to hit Vhanilla, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:50 2021] You try to hit Baugi, but miss!
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:51 2021] Bogey tries to hit Vhanilla, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:51 2021] Baugi regains concentration and continues casting.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:51 2021] Your skin erupts in purulent pock marks. You have taken 60 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:52 2021] Vhanilla's image shimmers.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:52 2021] You hit Baugi for 130 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:54 2021] You hit Baugi for 200 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:55 2021] You hit Baugi for 149 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:56 2021] Faceoff hits Baugi for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:57 2021] Thunderdorne Scores a critical hit!(37)
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:57 2021] You hit Baugi for 147 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:58 2021] You hit Baugi for 156 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:59 2021] Baugi begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:00 2021] You hit Baugi for 143 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:01 2021] Faceoff tries to hit Baugi, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:02 2021] You hit Baugi for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:02 2021] Baugi regains concentration and continues casting.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:03 2021] You hit Faceoff for 129 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:06 2021] You slow down.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:07 2021] Baugi begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:08 2021] Faceoff hits Baugi for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:08 2021] You hit Baugi for 123 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:08 2021] Your target is too close to use a ranged weapon!!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:10 2021] Auto attack on.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:10 2021] You slash Baugi for 143 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:10 2021] YOU are tormented!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:10 2021] You slash Baugi for 278 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:10 2021] YOU are tormented!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:10 2021] Baugi's casting is interrupted!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:11 2021] Baugi begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:11 2021] Faceoff was tormented.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:11 2021] Faceoff slashes Baugi for 126 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:11 2021] Faceoff was tormented.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:11 2021] Faceoff slashes Baugi for 190 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:11 2021] Baugi has been slain by Faceoff!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:11 2021] Baugi's casting is interrupted!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:11 2021] [PvP] Baugi <Perdition> has been defeated by Faceoff <Apex> in The Overthere!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:16 2021] Your target is too close to use a ranged weapon!!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:17 2021] Vhanilla is bound by strands of solid music.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:17 2021] Melodie lets loose a piercing blast.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:19 2021] You hit Melodie for 138 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:30 2021] You hit Melodie for 115 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:32 2021] You hit Melodie for 130 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:33 2021] You try to hit Melodie, but miss!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:35 2021] You hit Melodie for 142 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:37 2021] You hit Melodie for 135 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:38 2021] Melodie lets loose a piercing blast.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:38 2021] You hit Melodie for 115 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:40 2021] You hit Melodie for 139 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:41 2021] Melodie's song ends abruptly.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:42 2021] You hit Melodie for 192 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:51 2021] Your feet move faster.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:53 2021] You hit Jimbobbie for 133 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:55 2021] You hit Melodie for 128 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:57 2021] You hit Melodie for 187 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:59 2021] You try to hit Melodie, but miss!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:02 2021] You hit Melodie for 114 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:03 2021] You assume a precise fighting style.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:04 2021] You hit Melodie for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:05 2021] You hit Melodie for 174 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:06 2021] Faceoff tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:06 2021] You slow down.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:06 2021] You hit Melodie for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:09 2021] Faceoff tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:09 2021] You hit Melodie for 131 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:09 2021] You have slain Melodie!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:09 2021] [PvP] Melodie <> has been defeated by Thunderdorne <Apex> in The Overthere!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:13 2021] You try to hit Bogey, but miss!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:14 2021] You receive 4 silver and 2 copper from the corpse.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:26 2021] The grim aura fades.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:26 2021] A dull aura covers your hand.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:26 2021] The maelstrom fades away.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:26 2021] You are enveloped in a swirling maelstrom.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:26 2021] The brambles fall away.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:26 2021] You are surrounded by a thorny barrier.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:30 2021] You hit Bogey for 151 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:31 2021] You hit Bogey for 145 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:33 2021] You hit Bogey for 149 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:35 2021] You hit Bogey for 160 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:36 2021] You hit Bogey for 147 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:37 2021] You hit Bogey for 144 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:39 2021] You hit Bogey for 117 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:41 2021] You hit Bogey for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:41 2021] The pox has run its course.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:43 2021] You hit Bogey for 148 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:44 2021] You hit Bogey for 202 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:46 2021] You hit Bogey for 153 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:47 2021] You hit Bogey for 161 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:48 2021] Faceoff hits Bogey for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:49 2021] You hit Bogey for 160 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:50 2021] You hit Bogey for 151 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:52 2021] You hit Bogey for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:53 2021] You hit Bogey for 184 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:55 2021] You hit Bogey for 121 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:55 2021] Faceoff tries to hit Bogey, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:56 2021] Faceoff tries to hit Bogey, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:56 2021] You try to hit Bogey, but miss!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:57 2021] Bogey writhes in the grip of agony.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:57 2021] Bogey has been slain by Bogey!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:57 2021] Bogey's casting is interrupted!

You can see that both characters' absolute lowest possible damage with arrows is ALWAYS 111 points of damage.

Where most every weapon or special skill in the game has it's own minimum damage coded in (flying kick, backstabs, kicks, throwing weapons, etc etc), arrows are using the damage bonuses of the slowest weapons available to give you the minimum damage you'll do, and then it starts calculating AC and everything else after that.

In general, someone with 1600 AC would take very little damage from ANY melee damage across the board, but with arrows how they are, it's creating an environment now where everyone is building up armies of TROLL, OGRE, or BARBARIAN bow users, because the weighted axe provides gargantuan minimum hit benefits.

The way people use gear and build characters on Red99 now is mostly by building up the maximum amount of hit points, with no regard for resists or any other alternative criteria. Casters of any kind are only situationally useful, because they have far less hit points than large races and they can't do anything to bow users at 300-350 range.

Another log from this thread (Ogre SK with Weighted Axe):

[Fri Oct 22 17:57:16 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:17 2021] You hit Papercuts for 117 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:19 2021] You hit Papercuts for 114 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:20 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:21 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:22 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:23 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:24 2021] You hit Papercuts for 111 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:25 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:26 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:27 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:29 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:30 2021] You hit Papercuts for 124 points of damage.

sk bow vs a rog

Again, not many hits to go off of here, but the minimum is 111.

Rogues in many different contexts use the OT hammer and don't bother with normal melee, backstabbing, or using any other type of tactical ingenuity to kill people.

The strong vocal outcry is because there's a bastardization effect happening on the normal modes of PvP, and it's making the majority of classes AND races broadly ineffective. Even the very well geared casters can't compete against a "Walmart" Ogre, Troll, or Barbarian SK or warrior.

[Botten]

You mentioned it is a HP race. HP is very valuable in PvP and PvE. It makes sense to be the go to stat.

Two separate tangents to the Bowquest in Red p99 I find intriguing.

1. Shadow Knights and Paladins have a max Archery skill of 75. Do skills affect miss rate in PvP? If I were to wager I don't think they do.

In short in PvE only weapon skill affects chance to hit.

Weapon skill contributes to ATK so it's often conflated, but ATK is what's used vs the opponent's AC to calculate damage, not chance to hit.

Here's where everybody ends up being right: in EQ, if damage is mitigated to 0, it displays as miss. Even though you actually hit the enemy, it was just reduced to 0.

So anything that affects ATK (i.e. weapon skill, offense skill, and STR) will impact how frequently you see a miss on screen due to "false" misses from damage output vs mitigation.

But only weapon skill impacts a true miss.

2. For Red server there is an entry that eludes that AGI affect hit rating.
Here - https://wiki.project1999.com/Statistics

On Red server Dexterity affects PVP hit rate. It does this by comparing your dexterity to your opponent's agility. There is no evidence that Dexterity affects hit rate in PVE.

How is this compared?
For Example:

Attacking player has 70 Dex they roll a random number 1-70 ; They get a 67
Defending player has 200 Agi they roll a random number 1-200 ; They get a 59

Does the attacker hit the defending player?

Is it that simple?

I don't expect p99 developers to release this information nor to reprogram the system to make it more accurate.

I just find it interesting.

[bellhop]

You mentioned it is a HP race. HP is very valuable in PvP and PvE. It makes sense to be the go to stat.

Two separate tangents to the Bowquest in Red p99 I find intriguing.

1. Shadow Knights and Paladins have a max Archery skill of 75. Do skills affect miss rate in PvP? If I were to wager I don't think they do.

In short in PvE only weapon skill affects chance to hit.

Weapon skill contributes to ATK so it's often conflated, but ATK is what's used vs the opponent's AC to calculate damage, not chance to hit.

Here's where everybody ends up being right: in EQ, if damage is mitigated to 0, it displays as miss. Even though you actually hit the enemy, it was just reduced to 0.

So anything that affects ATK (i.e. weapon skill, offense skill, and STR) will impact how frequently you see a miss on screen due to "false" misses from damage output vs mitigation.

But only weapon skill impacts a true miss.

2. For Red server there is an entry that eludes that AGI affect hit rating.
Here - https://wiki.project1999.com/Statistics

On Red server Dexterity affects PVP hit rate. It does this by comparing your dexterity to your opponent's agility. There is no evidence that Dexterity affects hit rate in PVE.

How is this compared?
For Example:

Attacking player has 70 Dex they roll a random number 1-70 ; They get a 67
Defending player has 200 Agi they roll a random number 1-200 ; They get a 59

Does the attacker hit the defending player?

Is it that simple?

I don't expect p99 developers to release this information nor to reprogram the system to make it more accurate.

I just find it interesting.


IÂ’m not certain anyone disputes that fact. The agility versus dexterity was the case prior to this bug, and plenty of people have grievances about that topic (hit rates). ItÂ’s also helpful to keep in mind that with the era weÂ’re in, dexterity is a far, far more common stat than agility, even at the very high end. Agility gets its heyday in Luclin for the most part. People arenÂ’t missing hits very much.

That point aside, itÂ’s a mutually exclusive point from this bug. This bug is doing two versions of damage simultaneously, once from the bonus damage of a main hand weapon, and then again with the actual bow.

Priceless Velium Reinforced Bow was valuable prior to this bug on the server. That is not the bow of choice anymore, despite being the superior bow in almost every respect.

The bows most sought after are the ones that can shoot arrows the fastest. Players want those bows because the MINIMUM hit is so huge from things like the weighted axe that the damage on bows isnÂ’t a real consideration. Players only consider delays. Whatever bow that can pump out 111 points of damage the fastest.

The Sarnak War Bow is one, at 25 delay. ItÂ’s very clearly not as good on its face as a Priceless or Primal bow. The second is a Bow of The Destroyer - at 17 delay. Also not as good as Priceless or Primal by any objective standard.

Sidenote: Most people are choosing fatty warriors because of the precision discipline with bows. That discipline essentially erases the dexterity versus agility consideration. ItÂ’s nearly putting your arrows at a 100% hit rate. Again, not the point - but it does have an indirect relationship with this bug. It works in concert with the obscene minimum damages coming from any bow user.

IÂ’d just keep in mind that Backstab is meant to be one of the strongest, if not the strongest, special abilities in the game, and itÂ’s got a minimum hit of 120 damage, BARELY above a 350 range arrow attack. Call me crazy, but that seems imbalanced.

DonÂ’t get me wrong, when this bug was found out, the entire server took notice, rerolled, and switched tactics. So in that respect itÂ’s not this disparity where one single person or guild has access to anything over another. ItÂ’s much more asymmetrical at a fundamental level. ItÂ’s also not something that was in the patch notes at any point, right? There shouldnÂ’t be a defense for something that wasnÂ’t supposed to be here in the first place.

[Awsten_Tx]

The primary hand damage bonus is a bug exclusive to p99. It wasnt that way on live nor is it replicated on any other server.