Sleeper being awoken tonight (April 13th)

[Goldknyght]

This is wrong. Trains were not purposely programmed, they are an unintended consequence of the game mechanics. This is why in the PnP and on the live servers they will punish players from doing it. They cannot easily prevent trains via clever programming, so they have to resort to GM intervention instead.

Sleeper, on the other hand, was purposely programmed to be awoken and despawn the Warders. There is nothing in the PnP that prevents it from happening, and there is nothing unintended happening here. It isn't like Warders despawning is a bug. That is the difference.

Everquest was purposely programmed to move past this event also. Not locked in this timeline. This event was a neat way to have the community decide when it happens then move on to the next expansion. When the p99 team wanted to lock this game in classic. Waking the sleeper actually is a D*** move. How aren't you grasping this concept?

And reading the Play nice policy, this actually violates those rules. We can no longer hunt the warders. They no longer spawn.

[Local]

Proceeds to make baseless claims every 10 pages to try and look cool.

Sad how confident I am that I will see you in another 10 pages.

[Skarne]

In addition, whether it’s a dick move or not is subjective at best. I do believe the sleeper is meant to be awakened. If a guild wakes the sleeper it’s their choice and right to do so.

[Goldknyght]

In addition, whether it’s a dick move or not is subjective at best. I do believe the sleeper is meant to be awakened. If a guild wakes the sleeper it’s their choice and right to do so.

with this logic training or kill stealing is subjective at best too. If i want to train you or KS its my choice and my right to do so as the game allows it.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

All Eli is trying to say is that the comparison of manastone and waking the sleeper are completely different due to the player choice aspect regarding waking the sleeper.

The manastone is a set timeline removal.

The sleeper requires player choice which is a trigger, not a timer.

I agree with Eli on this. It’s a silly argument anyway and I’m surprised it’s gone on for 15 pages.

I think the problem is people are getting too hung up on the "player choice" thing. In video games there typically aren't a ton of things to do, as video games are heavily restrictive systems. You can only do what has been programmed, or what can be done unexpectedly via exploit.

In a game of limited choices, something as cool as waking the Sleeper is something most players wouldn't ignore. So while yes, it is a "choice", it is a choice that is heavily weighted psychologically to happen. And we have 20 years of data to back this up, since the Sleeper has been awoken on most servers. I am really confused as to why people think it is much of a choice when 20 years of data prove most people end up doing the same thing. Everything you do in life is a choice, but there are different degrees to where having the choice actually matters. Sleeper is going to be awoken, because it is just too tempting.

That is why I consider it a timer, because realistically speaking I would never expect a P99 server to keep Sleeper sleeping, and so far all of the data backs this up. It is not a question of if, but when.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

with this logic training or kill stealing is subjective at best too. If i want to train you or KS its my choice and my right to do so as the game allows it.

No, this is wrong. Kill stealing and training was not intended, which is why you get punished for it. Just because the developers cannot find any easy way to fix this problem programmatically, doesn't mean it is intentional or allowed.

[eqravenprince]

In addition, whether it’s a dick move or not is subjective at best. I do believe the sleeper is meant to be awakened. If a guild wakes the sleeper it’s their choice and right to do so.

Neah... it's a dick move. There is nothing subjective about it. It's selfish. And you are correct, they have the right to be dicks.

[Skarne]

I think the problem is people are getting too hung up on the "player choice" thing. In video games there typically aren't a ton of things to do, as video games are heavily restrictive systems. You can only do what has been programmed, or what can be done unexpectedly via exploit.

In a game of limited choices, something as cool as waking the Sleeper is something most players wouldn't ignore. So while yes, it is a "choice", it is a choice that is heavily weighted psychologically to happen. And we have 20 years of data to back this up, since the Sleeper has been awoken on most servers. I am really confused as to why people think it is much of a choice when 20 years of data prove most people end up doing the same thing. Everything you do in life is a choice, but there are different degrees to where having the choice actually matters. Sleeper is going to be awoken, because it is just too tempting.

That is why I consider it a timer, because realistically speaking I would never expect a P99 server to keep Sleeper sleeping, and so far all of the data backs this up. It is not a question of if, but when.


Ok so if it’s a timer you should be able to predict with accuracy when the sleeper will wake up on the next iteration of p99 <insert color>

If you can’t do that accurately, and I can predict exactly when the manastones cease to drop, how is that a decent comparison?

[Skarne]

Neah... it's a dick move. There is nothing subjective about it. It's selfish. And you are correct, they have the right to be dicks.

I don’t really think it’s a dick move…it’s actually kind of generous of them to keep the sleeper asleep for as long as they did. They could have woken up Kerafyrm months ago as far as I’ve heard.

[eqravenprince]

Ok so if it’s a timer you should be able to predict with accuracy when the sleeper will wake up on the next iteration of p99 <insert color>

If you can’t do that accurately, and I can predict exactly when the manastones cease to drop, how is that a decent comparison?

More like a jack in the box. *boing* Surprise, there are dicks on the server.

[Kirdan]

Everquest was purposely programmed to move past this event also. Not locked in this timeline...

Green was purposely programmed to recycle and move past this event also. Not locked in this timeline forever like Blue.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Ok so if it’s a timer you should be able to predict with accuracy when the sleeper will wake up on the next iteration of p99 <insert color>

If you can’t do that accurately, and I can predict exactly when the manastones cease to drop, how is that a decent comparison?

It's the equivalent of a randomized timer. The dev's for fun could make the Manastone timer a random number between 10 days and 50 days, and players would have to figure out when it happens. That is still a timer, you simply don't know when it ends. It sounds like you have falsely assumed that everybody must always know the time left on a timer. Timers can be hidden.

Sleeper is the same way, it is a timer by vote. Every day that players don't kill Sleeper, they are voting to extend the timer. But since we can't predict the future, it is somewhat random as to when it occurs.

However, as I stated before, every ST key that drops increases the probability of Sleeper spawning, either by player dispute or by accident. Realistically speaking the chance of waking Sleeper is extremely high once you have like 200 unique keyed players.

[Goldknyght]

No, this is wrong. Kill steaming and training was not intended, which is why you get punished for it. Just because the developers cannot find any easy way to fix this problem programmatically, doesn't mean it is intentional.

How do you know it wasn't intended? Players just bitched enough and they made it punishable. The game was also intended to move past this event. So by this server not moving on past this event. This is a negative outcome just like me being able to kill steal or train.

[eqravenprince]

I don’t really think it’s a dick move…it’s actually kind of generous of them to keep the sleeper asleep for as long as they did. They could have woken up Kerafyrm months ago as far as I’ve heard.

Do you even know what a dick move is? By definition it is doing something to help you and ruining it for other people.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

How do you know it wasn't intended? Players just bitched enough and they made it punishable. The game was also intended to move past this event. So by this server not moving on past this event. This is a negative outcome just like me being able to kill steal or train.

That is super easy. If it was intended, they wouldn't punish people lol. Last time I checked people don't get punished on P99 for playing the game as intended.

[Skarne]

It's the equivalent of a randomized timer. The dev's for fun could make the Manastone timer a random number between 10 days and 50 days, and players would have to figure out when it happens.

Sleeper is the same way, it is a timer by vote. Every day that players don't kill Sleeper, they are voting to extend the timer. But since we can't predict the future, it is somewhat random as to when it occurs.

However, as I stated before, every ST key that drops increases the probability of Sleeper spawning, either by player dispute or by accident. Realistically speaking the chance of waking Sleeper is extremely high once you have like 200 unique keyed players.

I agree with your point above but still disagree the two are a decent comparison. Fair enough though it’s okay to disagree and debate unless you’re today’s Republican Party.

[Skarne]

Do you even know what a dick move is? By definition it is doing something to help you and ruining it for other people.

Yeah I get your point. Sorry you didn’t get to go kill warders man. That does really suck if you were looking forward to that.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I agree with your point above but still disagree the two are a decent comparison. Fair enough though it’s okay to disagree and debate unless you’re today’s Republican Party.

Lol as always, thank you for the respectable conversation. It is hard to come by on these forums. Agree to disagree!

[eqravenprince]

Fair enough though it’s okay to disagree and debate unless you’re today’s Republican Party.

Lol, don't even go there. The debates have been so biased towards liberals for decades. I applaud the Republicans for saying enough of the bullshit.

[Skarne]

Lol, don't even go there. The debates have been so biased towards liberals for decades. I applaud the Republicans for saying enough of the bullshit.

I just think debates are too important to our democracy to just pull the plug completely like that.

[eqravenprince]

I just think debates are too important to our democracy to just pull the plug completely like that.

Biased debates are worse than no debates. But I would like a fair and just debate.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Let's just stick to the topic at hand. There is plenty of politics in RnF and Off Topic already lol.

[Goldknyght]

Green was purposely programmed to recycle and move past this event also. Not locked in this timeline forever like Blue.

And on the next server it will be a issue again. So just like other mechanics that are punishable, this event should be punishable also. As brad didn't expect this to be the only unique event for players just like kill stealing and training. So Ban everyone involved in that raid, because it was a D*** move.

[Skarne]

Biased debates are worse than no debates. But I would like a fair and just debate.

I’m down for that no doubt. I just wish they would’ve presented an alternative instead of straight quitting like we did.

[Skarne]

And on the next server it will be a issue again. So just like other mechanics that are punishable, this event should be punishable also. As brad didn't expect this to be the only unique event for players just like kill stealing and training. So Ban everyone involved in that raid, because it was a D*** move.

Now that’s just silly

[Elizondo]

For less than 1% of the server, the other 99% did not have a choice.

Choice remains

[eqravenprince]

Choice remains

Sure ok, choice remains in a dictatorship or communism too.

[Goldknyght]

Now that’s just silly

well i think its silly to punish people who train. Its what makes Everquest unique. You literally cant do it in any other game. But they deemed it toxic, so it punishable. Waking sleeper when the majority of the server doesn't want that to happen is toxic, so should be punishable.

[Skarne]

well i think its silly to punish people who train. Its what makes Everquest unique. You literally cant do it in any other game. But they deemed it toxic, so it punishable. Waking sleeper when the majority of the server doesn't want that to happen is toxic, so should be punishable.

I think you might be a bit too close to the situation man. Waking the sleeper and intentionally training somebody are two different things completely. Training is against PnP and waking the sleeper is arguably an intended mechanic not covered in the PnP because it’s the ultimate guild aspiration to be the ones to do it.

[Elizondo]

I think the problem is people are getting too hung up on the "player choice" thing.

Sorry you're not going to weasel your way out of it

Stop comparing it to manastone. It's not the same thing.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

well i think its silly to punish people who train. Its what makes Everquest unique. You literally cant do it in any other game. But they deemed it toxic, so it punishable. Waking sleeper when the majority of the server doesn't want that to happen is toxic, so should be punishable.

This is a very strange argument to make. If you think it's OK to train people, why is killing Sleeper bad? If you want a wild west game where people can do what they want, I am fine with that on P99, but that goes against the points you made earlier.

You also can't kill Sleeper in any other game, so why is that different from training in your mind? Both are unique.

Sorry you're not going to weasel your way out of it

Stop comparing it to manastone. It's not the same thing.

Some day you will learn just saying stuff does not mean it is correct:)

[Elizondo]

Sure ok, choice remains in a dictatorship or communism too.

Analogy doesn't work

Devs don't trigger the event

Some day you will learn just saying stuff does not mean it is correct:)

lol speak your yourself. Your comparison is wrong and always will be be.

[Goldknyght]

I think you might be a bit too close to the situation man. Waking the sleeper and intentionally training somebody are two different things completely. Training is against PnP and waking the sleeper is arguably an intended mechanic not covered in the PnP because it’s the ultimate guild aspiration to be the ones to do it.

I agree its the ultimate aspiration and ST won that honor. Doing this on a p99 server though is the ultimate guild D*** move also, which is Toxic and should be treated as such as its unique.

[Ooloo]

I agree its the ultimate aspiration and ST won that honor. Doing this on a p99 server though is the ultimate guild D*** move also, which is Toxic and should be treated as such as its unique.

You keep using words that you're just defining yourself. "Yes I agree it's totally okay that ST did this, but it is also not okay because it's "toxic"."

I think it's toxic to guilt trip the top guild into never doing the one final thing that you can do in a game they clearly care about. Does that fall under "toxic" or?? How does this work? Join the next seal team if you want that gnome mask or whatever. I mean, stop and consider what we are even arguing about here...

[Skarne]

I agree its the ultimate aspiration and ST won that honor. Doing this on a p99 server though is the ultimate guild D*** move also, which is Toxic and should be treated as such as its unique.

Yeah I get what you’re saying but to ban everyone involved or even punish anyone to any degree involved would be an unprecedented event of major catastrophe. Why should a guild worry about the repercussions for triggering an intended and original event?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

lol speak your yourself. Your comparison is wrong and always will be be.

This continues to be an invalid argument, no matter how many times you post it lol.

[Ooloo]

The point about manastones is that people are not mad about manastones being taken out. We all understand that will happen. We also *should* all understand that the sleeper being awakened is inevitable. It could even happen *by accident*. It therefor makes no sense to be mad about one and not the other.

If you wanted a guise on p99 green, you had to sock through the other people who wanted to get it, before it's too late. If you want warder loot on green, you also had to sock through the other people who want it, before it's too late. It's the same thing.

It's like when somebody claims an analogy is wrong because you're comparing two things that are different. Like yeah that's why it's an analogy; you're showing how two things that are different in some ways (player VS dev controlled) are also similar in more important ways (you knew what you had to do to get item X and you didn't do it, sorry).

If ST had announced in advance (which they did, just by days not months) would that have somehow been better?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The point about manastones is that people are not mad about manastones being taken out. We all understand that will happen. We also *should* all understand that the sleeper being awakened is inevitable. It could even happen *by accident*. It therefor makes no sense to be mad about one and not another.

If you wanted a guise on p99 green, you had to sock through the other people who wanted it to get it, before it's too late. If you want warder loot on green, you also had to sock through the other people who want it, before it's too late. It's the same thing.

It's like when somebody claims an analogy is wrong because you're comparing two things that are different. Like yeah that's why it's an analogy; you're showing how two things that are different in some ways (player VS dev controlled) are also similar in more important ways (you knew what you had to do to get item X and you didn't do it, sorry).

If ST had announced in advance (which they did, just by days not months) would that have somehow been better?

Exactly! Thank you for the succinct summation.

[Goldknyght]

You keep using words that you're just defining yourself. "Yes I agree it's totally okay that ST did this, but it is also not okay because it's "toxic"."

I think it's toxic to guilt trip the top guild into never doing the one final thing that you can do in a game they clearly care about. Does that fall under "toxic" or?? How does this work? Join the next seal team if you want that gnome mask or whatever. I mean, stop and consider what we are even arguing about here...

Well no, my original argument it was a D*** move. Just this thread is getting deeper into the topic. So the very fact that this thread is where its at already shows how toxic this is.

[Elizondo]

This continues to be an invalid argument, no matter how many times you post it lol.

You've already been slowly conceding my point the entire time.

I think the problem is people are getting too hung up on the "player choice" thing.

You're trying to shift the goal posts to save face.

[Elizondo]

The point about manastones is that people are not mad about manastones being taken out. We all understand that will happen. We also *should* all understand that the sleeper being awakened is inevitable. It could even happen *by accident*. It therefor makes no sense to be mad about one and not the other.

If you wanted a guise on p99 green, you had to sock through the other people who wanted to get it, before it's too late. If you want warder loot on green, you also had to sock through the other people who want it, before it's too late. It's the same thing.

It's like when somebody claims an analogy is wrong because you're comparing two things that are different. Like yeah that's why it's an analogy; you're showing how two things that are different in some ways (player VS dev controlled) are also similar in more important ways (you knew what you had to do to get item X and you didn't do it, sorry).

If ST had announced in advance (which they did, just by days not months) would that have somehow been better?

A lot of words, but choice remains

It's not removed by developers. Not the same thing.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You've already been slowly conceding my point the entire time.
You're trying to shift the goal posts to save face.

Not moving the goal post, I am simply trying help you out by explaining different aspects of my argument. It is a waste of time for you, since you are a troll. But hopefully it is beneficial for the other readers.

[Goldknyght]

The point about manastones is that people are not mad about manastones being taken out. We all understand that will happen. We also *should* all understand that the sleeper being awakened is inevitable. It could even happen *by accident*. It therefor makes no sense to be mad about one and not the other.

If you wanted a guise on p99 green, you had to sock through the other people who wanted to get it, before it's too late. If you want warder loot on green, you also had to sock through the other people who want it, before it's too late. It's the same thing.

It's like when somebody claims an analogy is wrong because you're comparing two things that are different. Like yeah that's why it's an analogy; you're showing how two things that are different in some ways (player VS dev controlled) are also similar in more important ways (you knew what you had to do to get item X and you didn't do it, sorry).

If ST had announced in advance (which they did, just by days not months) would that have somehow been better?

This is ignorant. Those items removal or changes were nerfs. If this game magically stopped in velious, nerfs to this event WOULD OF HAPPENED. But the game didn't stop here, it kept going. so no need to nerf it as its irrelevant. P99 staff needs to nerf this in the future. Nerfs happen because of unfair advantages or broken mechanics. this mechanic is obviously broken if the game stops in velious.

[Skarne]

This is ignorant. Those items removal or changes were nerfs. If this game magically stopped in velious, nerfs to this event WOULD OF HAPPENED. But the game didn't stop here, it kept going. so no need to nerf it as its irrelevant. P99 staff needs to nerf this in the future. Nerfs happen because of unfair advantages or broken mechanics. this mechanic is obviously broken if the game stops in velious.

I think you mean sleeper needs a buff to not wake up after all 4 are dead. A nerf would mean the sleeper would wake up after 3 or 2 or 1 warder dies.

Despite that I think the mechanic works exactly as intended…I don’t understand where you’re coming from on this.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Despite that I think the mechanic works exactly as intended…I don’t understand where you’re coming from on this.

Agreed, I am confused as well on what he is trying to say.

[Elizondo]

Not moving the goal post, I am simply trying help you out by explaining different aspects of my argument. It is a waste of time for you, since you are a troll. But hopefully it is beneficial for the other readers.

Yea, you tried to move the goal posts

Choice remains

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yea, you tried to move the goal posts

Choice remains

Not moving the goal post, I am simply trying help you out by explaining different aspects of my argument. It is a waste of time for you, since you are a troll. But hopefully it is beneficial for the other readers.

[Goldknyght]

I think you mean sleeper needs a buff to not wake up after all 4 are dead. A nerf would mean the sleeper would wake up after 3 or 2 or 1 warder dies.

Despite that I think the mechanic works exactly as intended…I don’t understand where you’re coming from on this.

Well the manastone was working as intended. the Guise of the deceiver was working as intended. but unfair advantages were discovered and it was nerfed. So this interaction only happening once should be nerfed for a p99 server that stops in velious. How is this not understandable?

[Elizondo]

Not moving the goal post, I am simply trying help you out by explaining different aspects of my argument. It is a waste of time for you, since you are a troll. But hopefully it is beneficial for the other readers.

It's not my problem you are trying to move the goal posts now.

Calling me a troll won't make your initial comparison any less stupid than it was.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Well the manastone was working as intended. the Guise of the deceiver was working as intended. but unfair advantages were discovered and it was nerfed. So this interaction only happening once should be nerfed for a p99 server that stops in velious. How is this not understandable?

That is a separate argument from this thread. It would certainly be consistent to simply remove all legacy items, but that isn't what we are talking about here hehe. P99 is supposedly trying to re-create the Everquest timeline, even though they don't do it perfectly. This is why they put Manastone in for a month and then remove it, to attempt to simulate the limited time drop of that legacy item. But that is still a customized decision that is unique to P99, and not the same as the on-the-fly nerf that occurred initially in 1999.

It's not my problem you are trying to move the goal posts now.

Calling me a troll won't make your initial comparison any less stupid than it was.

Not moving the goal post, I am simply trying help you out by explaining different aspects of my argument. It is a waste of time for you, since you are a troll. But hopefully it is beneficial for the other readers.

[Skarne]

Well the manastone was working as intended. the Guise of the deceiver was working as intended. but unfair advantages were discovered and it was nerfed. So this interaction only happening once should be nerfed for a p99 server that stops in velious. How is this not understandable?

Because when those things were nerfed it was 1999. The ultimate goal of this server even though there are some things still to be improved, is to be as classic as possible. This includes timelines in which items were nerfed back in the day.

What you’re talking about is ret-conning the original developers decisions which wouldn’t be in spirit of the original purpose of the server.

[Elizondo]

P99 is supposedly trying to re-create the Everquest timeline

Wait, what?

the Staff have denied players pixels by removing legacy items, which they have no obligation to do so.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Wait, what?

Lol do you not understand two things can be true at once? P99's mission statement is to recreate classic Everquest circa 1999-2001 or so. But they are not getting paid to do it, and they do not have a gun to their head. They have no obligation to actually go through with it. How is this complicated?

[Goldknyght]

That is a separate argument from this thread. It would certainly be consistent to simply remove all legacy items, but that isn't what we are talking about here hehe. P99 is supposedly trying to re-create the Everquest timeline, even though they don't do it perfectly. This is why they put Manastone in for a month and then remove it, to attempt to simulate the limited time drop of that legacy item. But that is still a customized decision that is unique to P99, and not the same as the on-the-fly nerf that occurred initially in 1999.



Not moving the goal post, I am simply trying help you out by explaining different aspects of my argument. It is a waste of time for you, since you are a troll. But hopefully it is beneficial for the other readers.

Im not arguing to remove legacy items, but the farming of them is toxic. Why there was a /list set up for them. So even the p99 devs know its a problem. So by using that same logic, waking the sleeper without the server wanting that event to happen is toxic. because This is a by product of the server stopping in velious. On TLPs people complain, but they can just wait till luclin drops then Planar armor from plane of time to correct what happens after a server wakes the sleeper. There is no new expansion to correct or make the items irrelevant anymore.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Im not arguing to remove legacy items, but the farming of them is toxic. Why there was a /list set up for them. So even the p99 devs know its a problem. So by using that same logic, waking the sleeper without the server wanting that event to happen is toxic. because This is a by product of the server stopping in velious. On TLPs people complain, but they can just wait till luclin drops then Planar armor from plane of time to correct what happens after a server wakes the sleeper. There is no new expansion to correct or make the items irrelevant anymore.

I guess I am just confused then. You don't want anything to change, you just want to call people dicks and toxic? Of course people understand the problem with limited time content is it is... limited. That doesn't make it bad lol. That is one of the things people like about Everquest, which is different from other MMOs where you are just spoon fed all the best gear.

[Elizondo]

Lol do you not understand two things can be true at once? P99's mission statement is to recreate classic Everquest circa 1999-2001 or so. But they are not getting paid to do it, and they do not have a gun to their head. They have no obligation to actually go through with it. How is this complicated?

Who said anything about getting paid?

It's advertised as a "Classic Everquest Server". A museum that captures the spirit and history of the game as it was during the Classic Era. A labor of love.

I'm amazed at how utterly devoid of integrity you are to try and minimize the passion, time, dedication and energy involved in making this server a reality for everyone to enjoy. Anyone can just throw up an EQ emu server and hope to attract players. You don't see Daybreak giving their stamp of approval on any other server but this one. And for good reason.

To just toss that aside so you can feel like you 'won' an argument is pathetic

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Who said anything about getting paid?

It's advertised as a "Classic Everquest Server". A museum that captures the spirit and history of the game as it was during the Classic Era. A labor of love.

I'm amazed at how utterly devoid of integrity you are to try and minimize the passion, time, dedication and energy involved in making this server a reality for everyone to enjoy. Anyone can just throw up an EQ emu server and hope to attract players. You don't see Daybreak giving their stamp of approval on any other server but this one. And for good reason.

To just toss that aside so you can feel like you 'won' an argument is pathetic

I didn't toss that aside at all. Nice attempt at a straw man pivot to try and avoid the conversation. I think the P99 developers are doing an amazing job.

The people who are minimizing the P99 staff's efforts are people who think a mechanic they created (and wanted to be played) is "toxic" or "loot denying" lol. Seal Team respected the Dev's efforts by actually triggering the script, instead of letting it rot because people didn't put in the effort to get to the Warders first.

By blaming Seal Team, you are also blaming the Dev's. The only asshole here blaming the Dev's and minimizing their effort is you. That is precisely why I am arguing against blaming Seal Team. You are also slapping the Dev's in the face by doing that. Shame.

[Worry]

the community really sucks here lol... what a shame.

[Phraxas]

the community really sucks here lol... what a shame.

Idk if I agree with this. Seal Team has given the green server what they needed, which is content and more importantly an enemy.

Look at these forums for example, kinda boring kinda dull. Wake a sleeper and now we got conversations and threads in RNF with 6,000 views. Green UN with multiple people talking, memes flying…

Seal Team gives the community what they need and when they need it, sadly too many people don’t realize it but it’s healthy.

[Gustoo]

The devs didn't create the sleeper mechanic. Brad did.

This is a live everquest classic emulator, so you can bet your ass the sleeper is going to work just like he did on live.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The devs didn't create the sleeper mechanic. Brad did.

This is a live everquest classic emulator, so you can bet your ass the sleeper is going to work just like he did on live.

Brad and the original Everquest team did design and implement Sleeper, yes.

But the P99 Dev's had to rebuild the script from scratch, which is quite a bit of work. It isn't like P99 just had all of the original code lying around. So they had to decide whether or not to build the script first before implementing it on P99. This means they wanted it to happen on P99, otherwise they wouldn't have done it.

[Ooloo]

I would love to hear a description of how somebody in classic everquest can get an item that you wanted instead of you getting it, but it's not "toxic" when they do? Is it toxic when somebody gets to a camp you wanted before you do? What exactly is and isn't toxic? "Toxic" just seems to mean "an outcome I don't like".

Because I do love this game and this server so much, and all of the free work that goes into making it happen for over a decade now, it's concerning how many people just seem primed to bail the moment an outcome occurs that was clearly telegraphed like 3 years ago. What game do you think you're playing? It's like the whole point of this niche project that has exceeded all expectations. I was there when blue launched and we had global /ooc cause the pop was so low.

[fortior]

lol this thread is still going

[kthulhu]

You were a hero, and clearly on the good side thank you.

[Skarne]

You were a hero, and clearly on the good side thank you.

You’re welcome man it’s what I do

[Elizondo]

I didn't toss that aside at all. Nice attempt at a straw man pivot to try and avoid the conversation. I think the P99 developers are doing an amazing job.

Holding a gun to their head? Really? lol unreal

The people who are minimizing the P99 staff's efforts are people who think a mechanic they created (and wanted to be played) is "toxic" or "loot denying" lol. Seal Team respected the Dev's efforts by actually triggering the script, instead of letting it rot because people didn't put in the effort to get to the Warders first.

Player triggered. Choice.

Not the same as Manastone. Choice not involved. Completely Dev controlled in adherence with the Classic Time Line.

By blaming Seal Team, you are also blaming the Dev's. The only asshole here blaming the Dev's and minimizing their effort is you. That is precisely why I am arguing against blaming Seal Team. You are also slapping the Dev's in the face by doing that. Shame.

Don't care about ST. Your comparison to manastone is stupid.

So the guy who claimed P99 staff is "denying pixels" is suddenly accusing others of slapping them in the face

This is comedy

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Holding a gun to their head? Really? lol unreal



Player triggered. Choice.

Not the same as Manastone. Choice not involved. Completely Dev controlled in adherence with the Classic Time Line.



Don't care about ST. Your comparison to manastone is stupid.

So the guy who claimed P99 staff is "denying pixels" is suddenly accusing others of slapping them in the face

This is comedy

It's pretty clear you didn't read my arguments lol. Not surprising. I said if you think Seal Team is denying pixels, you are also saying the staff is doing the same thing. You can't logically blame one without the other. Reading is not really your strong suit it seems.

I myself am not blaming Seal Team or the Dev's for denying pixels. I am not blaming them for anything lol. I am defending them. You really don't even know what we are talking about. P99 is working as intended, Seal Team played the game as intended. It's really that simple.

[Elizondo]

It's pretty clear you didn't read my arguments lol. Not surprising. I said if you think Seal Team is denying pixels, you are also saying the staff is doing the same thing. You can't logically blame one without the other. Reading is not really your strong suit it seems.

I myself am not blaming Seal Team or the Dev's for denying pixels. I am not blaming them for anything lol. I am defending them. You really don't even know what we are talking about. P99 is working as intended, Seal Team played the game as intended. It's really that simple.

So I have to be mad at staff or being mad at the players is hypocritical?

Yup. Both players and staff are guilty of pixel denial. There is nothing specific about Sleeper that makes it a different form of pixel denial.

Except that it is different

Players choose to trigger Sleeper event

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Except that it is different

Players choose to trigger Sleeper event

You do realize I was speaking within Reiwa's question right? That wasn't me blaming the Dev's for pixel denial, that was me expanding on his question.

My point was that if you blame Seal Team, you also blame the Staff because there is no difference between removing Manastone and waking Sleeper.

But I understand you are trying really hard to score points lol.

[Elizondo]

You do realize I was speaking within Reiwa's question right? That wasn't me blaming the Dev's for pixel denial, that was me expanding on his question.

My point was that if you blame Seal Team, you also blame the Staff because there is no difference between removing Manastone and waking Sleeper.

But I understand you are trying really hard to score points lol.

You've been dragging staff intentions through the mud for pages now trying to justify your ridiculous comparison

Sleeper and Manastone are not the same. Just accept it.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You've been dragging staff intentions through the mud for pages now trying to justify your ridiculous comparison

Sleeper and Manastone are not the same. Just accept it.

I have not, and the post history shows it. This is just pathetic trolling. You can actually see the posts lol. But I guess you are just hoping people are like you and can't read.

[Skarne]

Haha you guys

[Elizondo]

I have not, and the post history shows it. This is just pathetic trolling. You can actually see the posts lol. But I guess you are just hoping people are like you and can't read.

If we blame Seal Team we have to blame the Devs?

lol

What if we don't blame Seal Team and just acknowledge as players they chose to trigger an event and that has nothing to do with manastone being removed because of the Classic Time Line?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

If we blame Seal Team we have to blame the Devs?

lol

What if we don't blame Seal Team and just acknowledge as players they chose to trigger an event and that has nothing to do with manastone being removed because of the Classic Time Line?

Yes, don't blame Seal Team. That is correct, and what I have been saying the entire time. If you don't blame Seal Team, you don't blame the Dev's either. My whole gripe has been with people accusing Seal Team of just playing the game, which is blaming the Dev's by proxy for their content.

Yes, players triggered the Sleeper event, which is cool.

Manastone being removed is the same thing as waking Sleeper. Both are content designed to be removed on P99. Manastone is on a fixed timer, Sleeper is a timer by vote.

Glad you agree with me!

[Elizondo]

Yes, don't blame Seal Team. That is correct, and what I have been saying. If you don't blame Seal Team, you don't blame the Dev's either.

Yes, players trigger the Sleeper event

Manastone being removed is the same thing as waking Sleeper. Both are content designed to be removed on P99. Manastone is on a fixed timer, Sleeper is a timer by vote.

Glad you agree with me!

lol

[DeathsSilkyMist]

lol

Yes, triggering the event is voting to end the timer. Either you really enjoy bad trolling with semantics, or you don't understand the difference. In both cases, you are being silly. I am not sure why you think triggering an event cannot be tied to the concept of a timer. They are not mutually exclusive.

[Ripqozko]

Sorry you don't got

[Elizondo]

Yes, triggering the event is voting to end the timer. Either you really enjoy bad trolling with semantics, or you don't understand the difference. In both cases, you are being silly. I am not sure why you think triggering an event cannot be tied to the concept of a timer. They are not mutually exclusive.

Who voted?

Show me the ballots

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Who voted?

Show me the ballots

Can you try to troll better? This doesn't troll me, and it just makes you look stupid.

[Elizondo]

Can you try to troll better? This doesn't troll me, and it just makes you look stupid.

Spare me the insults

When did this vote take place. Show me the ballots.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Spare me the insults

When did this vote take place. Show me the ballots.

Can you try to troll better? This doesn't troll me, and it just makes you look stupid.

Voting does not require ballots. Seal Team voted to awaken the Sleeper by killing the Warders lol.

[Elizondo]

Can you try to troll better? This doesn't troll me, and it just makes you look stupid.

Voting does not require ballots. Seal Team voted to awaken the Sleeper by killing the Warders lol.

Players triggered the event

Not the same as manastone

We've been over this already

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Players triggered the event

Not the same as manastone

We've been over this already

Bad trolling. Try again.

[Elizondo]

Bad trolling. Try again.

Your comparison is wrong

Just accept it

Accusing me of trolling doesn't change that

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Your comparison is wrong

Just accept it

Accusing me of trolling doesn't change that

Bad Trolling. Try again. You can read my previous posts to find your answers. I won't hold my breath though:)

[Goldknyght]

Bad Trolling. Try again. You can read my previous posts to find your answers. I won't hold my breath though:)

only one here trolling here is you. you use an example that fits your argument yet it isnt the same situation. The original devs also didnt intend the game to end in velious. I was never saying anything bad about the p99 devs. they wanted to recreate a classic experience and they did. This is a classic experience. In 2001 it was also a D*** move to awaken the sleeper once people understood it. reason people wanted progression servers in the first place. And I can guarentee every guild that awakens the sleeper was considered D***s back then also. And your are trying to compare apples(dev timer) to oranges(player timer) because yes they are both fruits(time). so we should say they are the same, when no an apple is different than a orange in every way.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

only one here trolling here is you. you use an example that fits your argument yet it isnt the same situation. The original devs also didnt intend the game to end in velious. I was never saying anything bad about the p99 devs. they wanted to recreate a classic experience and they did. This is a classic experience. In 2001 it was also a D*** move to awaken the sleeper once people understood it. reason people wanted progression servers in the first place. And I can guarentee every guild that awakens the sleeper was considered D***s back then also. And your are trying to compare apples(dev timer) to oranges(player timer) because yes they are both fruits(time). so we should say they are the same, when no an apple is different than a orange in every way.

I have explained my position clearly, and been quite patient. I am not trolling at all. You are the one simply calling people dicks because you don't agree with them lol.

You can dislike my example all you want, that doesn't mean it is incorrect. You have yet to show why it is incorrect, other than your disagreement.

[Goldknyght]

I have explained my position clearly, and been quite patient. I am not trolling at all. You are the one simply calling people dicks because you don't agree with them lol.

You can dislike my example all you want, that doesn't mean it is incorrect. You have yet to show why it is incorrect, other than your disagreement.

And i explained my postion clearly also, and been more patient. Just because i think it was a D*** move doesnt change anything for good or bad. You can call a chicken whatever you want, its still a chicken.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

And i explained my postion clearly also, and been more patient. Just because i think it was a D*** move doesnt change anything for good or bad. You can call a chicken whatever you want, its still a chicken.

I am not the one going around calling people dicks because they played the game as intended. You are. I am not sure why you think that is virtuous, or the proper response:)

[Goldknyght]

I am not the one going around calling people dicks because they played the game as intended. You are. I am not sure why you think that is virtuous, or the proper response:)

Is training someone not a D*** move? its playing the game as it was intended also. Just cuz you dont think it is or isnt. doesnt change that fact either. Its a D*** move. are they D***s in real life idk and like to think they are kewl cats, but in game that was a D*** move period. like its not rocket science.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Is training someone not a D*** move? its playing the game as it was intended also. Just cuz you dont think it is or isnt. doesnt change that fact either. Its a D*** move. are they D***s in real life idk and like to think they are kewl cats, but in game that was a D*** move period. like its not rocket science.

Training people is factually not playing the game as intended lol. That is why there are rules against it. You can't use that argument. They put the rules in place because they couldn't fix the training issue programmatically.

Sleeper is a game mechanic purposely designed to work the way it does. Training is an unintended consequence of the game mechanics they couldn't fix programmatically. Those are two different things.

[Goldknyght]

I am not the one going around calling people dicks because they played the game as intended. You are. I am not sure why you think that is virtuous, or the proper response:)

And i will continue to use the train mechanic because people during that time deemed it was a D*** move, the sleeper event isnt officially considered a D*** move, but in the eyes of the majority of the playerbase it is. Like its not a hard concept to grasp

[Elizondo]

Bad Trolling. Try again. You can read my previous posts to find your answers. I won't hold my breath though:)

You've already conceded Sleeper is triggered and a choice

I don't need to read your previous posts to know your comparison is stupid and wrong

[Goldknyght]

Training people is factually not playing the game as intended lol. That is why there are rules against it. You can't use that argument. They put the rules in place because they couldn't fix the training issue programmatically.

Sleeper is a game mechanic purposely designed to work the way it does. Training is an unintended consequence of the game mechanics they couldn't fix programmatically. Those are two different things.

yes it was intended. Just people COMPLAINED. had noone complained about training, it wouldnt be considered a D*** move. Thats how things are considered D*** moves. the playerbase dems it not the devs.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You've already conceded Sleeper is triggered and a choice

I don't need to read your previous posts to know your comparison is stupid and wrong

Bad Trolling. Try again. You can read my previous posts to find your answers. I won't hold my breath though:)

yes it was intended. Just people COMPLAINED. had noone complained about training, it wouldnt be considered a D*** move. Thats how things are considered D*** moves. the playerbase dems it not the devs.

This is incorrect. People complained and they realized how bad of an issue it was. Since they couldn't fix it, they put in rules instead. You can't compare this to Sleeper, which was intentionally designed to despawn Warders permanently.

[Elizondo]

Bad Trolling. Try again. You can read my previous posts to find your answers. I won't hold my breath though:)

You're the one that's trolling. You're just dodging now because you've lost the argument.

Again, you conceded it's a trigger and a choice. Checkmate.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You're the one that's trolling. You're just dodging now because you've lost the argument.

Again, you conceded it's a trigger and a choice. Checkmate.

Bad trolling. You cannot be bothered to read my arguments, which is why you think I am dodging or conceding. Post history proves otherwise.

[Elizondo]

Bad trolling. You cannot be bothered to read my arguments, which is why you think I am dodging or conceding. Post history proves otherwise.

You're reduced to whining now and are calling people trolls because you lost the argument

Your comparison was wrong and stupid

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You're reduced to whining now and are calling people trolls because you lost the argument

Your comparison was wrong and stupid

The only person I call a troll is yourself, as you keep trolling. Post history shows I am responding to the non-trolls:) Honestly this is just pathetic.

[Elizondo]

The only person I call a troll is yourself, as you keep trolling. Post history shows I am responding to the non-trolls:) Honestly this is just pathetic.

Yes I agree with you are pathetic because you can't admit the comparison you made was stupid and wrong

Again, you've conceded it's a triggered event and a choice. It's an absolute disgrace that you're trying to drag the devs into shouldering some blame for what a group of players chose to do

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yes I agree with you are pathetic because you can't admit the comparison you made was stupid and wrong

Again, you've conceded it's a triggered event and a choice. It's an absolute disgrace that you're trying to drag the devs into shouldering some blame for what a group of players chose to do

Nothing you said is true here, and my post history proves it lol. You aren't going to magically change history if you simply troll harder:)

[Goldknyght]

Bad Trolling. Try again. You can read my previous posts to find your answers. I won't hold my breath though:)



This is incorrect. People complained and they realized how bad of an issue it was. Since they couldn't fix it, they put in rules instead. You can't compare this to Sleeper, which was intentionally designed to despawn Warders permanently.

what do you think we are doing here? the game was also designed to have the manastone. Im sure someone complained and thats how they knew the meta and got nerfed it. Your not getting it, so i guess we can keep goin back in forth.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

what do you think we are doing here? the game was also designed to have the manastone. Im sure someone complained and thats how they knew the meta and got nerfed it. Your not getting it, so i guess we can keep goin back in forth.

Again, you are trying to compare unfixable consequences of gameplay with intentional gameplay choices.

Trains were not intended, Sleeper despawning Warders was.

Manastone was fixable via code, which is why they removed it from the loot table, instead of putting in place rules to prevent you from using them. Even your example doesn't prove your point.

[Elizondo]

Nothing you said is true here, and my post history proves it lol. You aren't going to magically change history if you simply troll harder:)

You're being delusional now

Sleeper still up on Red? If so, how long has he been up? How many years.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You're being delusional now

Sleeper still up on Red? If so, how long has he been up? How many years.

Bad Trolling. Try Again. You aren't going to magically change history if you simply troll harder:)

[Elizondo]

Bad Trolling. Try Again. You aren't going to magically change history if you simply troll harder:)

Dodge noted

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Dodge noted

Bad Trolling. Try Again. You aren't going to magically change history if you simply troll harder:)

[Goldknyght]

Again, you are trying to compare unfixable consequences of gameplay with intentional gameplay choices.

Trains were not intended, Sleeper despawning Warders was.

Manastone was fixable via code, which is why they removed it from the loot table, instead of putting in place rules to prevent you from using them. Even your example doesn't prove your point.

thats litterally what your doing trying to compare manastone timer to awakening of sleeper. And dont give me that crap they couldnt fix the code for training. All they would of had to do. if a mob gets aggro it stays on the original person till it resets its aggro ie with a taunt or returns to its original position if FD made it lose aggro. they could fix it, they chose not to as its easier to leave it alone and let the community police it. People just wouldnt group with you as its hard to prove you trained someone unless a GM see's it. Ur logic is flawed sir.

[Elizondo]

Bad Trolling. Try Again. You aren't going to magically change history if you simply troll harder:)

Another dodge noted

BTW any info on Sleeper status on red? Still curious

[DeathsSilkyMist]

thats litterally what your doing trying to compare manastone timer to awakening of sleeper. And dont give me that crap they couldnt fix the code for training. All they would of had to do. if a mob gets aggro it stays on the original person till it resets its aggro ie with a taunt or returns to its original position if FD made it lose aggro. they could fix it, they chose not to as its easier to leave it alone and let the community police it. People just wouldnt group with you as its hard to prove you trained someone unless a GM see's it. Ur logic is flawed sir.

Your comparison of Manastone is not the same as mine.

You're idea for fixing training wouldn't work, because it is very easy to exploit. If agro only stays on the original person, you could just train all the named mobs back to the entrance and people could just pick them out, no need to crawl the dungeon at all.

Do you know how all modern day games fix the training issue? They make the leashing radius of mobs like 100 feet lol. It certainly fixes the problem, but Everquest would have no danger whatsoever if you did that. You could just run through to the end boss and reset all the mobs.

You fail to grasp that not all problems are easy to solve, just because there is a quick code solution. Everything has a ripple effect, and the Everquest developers couldn't find a way to keep the dungeons dangerous without also having trains.

Another dodge noted

BTW any info on Sleeper status on red? Still curious

You can keep noting imaginary dodges if you want. You're just trolling yourself and allowing me to live rent free in your brain:) Keep going please.

[Elizondo]

You can keep noting imaginary dodges if you want. You're just trolling yourself and allowing me to live rent free in your brain:) Keep going please.

lol what's the status of Sleeper on Red?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

lol what's the status of Sleeper on Red?

You can keep noting imaginary dodges if you want. You're just trolling yourself and allowing me to live rent free in your brain. Keep going please:)

[Elizondo]

You can keep noting imaginary dodges if you want. You're just trolling yourself and allowing me to live rent free in your brain. Keep going please:)

Why can't you just confirm if he's been triggered or not?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Why can't you just confirm if he's been triggered or not?

You can keep noting imaginary dodges if you want. You're just trolling yourself and allowing me to live rent free in your brain. Keep going please:) I have already answered that before, you can check the post history!

[Elizondo]

You can keep noting imaginary dodges if you want. You're just trolling yourself and allowing me to live rent free in your brain. Keep going please:) I have already answered that before, you can check the post history!

Is he still up on Red?

Just confirming your comparison is still wrong and stupid

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Is he still up on Red?

Just confirming your comparison is still wrong and stupid

You can keep noting imaginary dodges if you want. You're just trolling yourself and allowing me to live rent free in your brain. Keep going please:) I have already answered that before, you can check the post history! You have also never rebutted my comparison other than calling it stupid.

[Local]

Proceeds to make baseless claims every 10 pages to try and look cool.
Sad how confident I am that I will see you in another 10 pages.

/wave

[Elizondo]

You can keep noting imaginary dodges if you want. You're just trolling yourself and allowing me to live rent free in your brain. Keep going please:) I have already answered that before, you can check the post history! You have also never rebutted my comparison other than calling it stupid.

Your comparison was refuted from the get go

Triggered event by players choosing to trigger the event is not the same thing as devs removing manastone because of a fixed time line that mirrors Classic

So I'll as again, has The Sleeper event been triggered on Red? yes or no works

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Your comparison was refuted from the get go

Triggered event by players choosing to trigger the event is not the same thing as devs removing manastone because of a fixed time line that mirrors Classic

So I'll as again, has The Sleeper event been triggered on Red? yes or no works

You can keep noting imaginary dodges if you want. You're just trolling yourself and allowing me to live rent free in your brain. Keep going please:) I have already answered that before, you can check the post history! You have also never rebutted my comparison other than calling it stupid.

[Elizondo]

You can keep noting imaginary dodges if you want. You're just trolling yourself and allowing me to live rent free in your brain. Keep going please:) I have already answered that before, you can check the post history! You have also never rebutted my comparison other than calling it stupid.

lol you're just embarrassing yourself now

You really are willing to die on that hill

[DeathsSilkyMist]

lol you're just embarrassing yourself now

You really are willing to die on that hill

You can keep noting imaginary dodges if you want. You're just trolling yourself and allowing me to live rent free in your brain. Keep going please:)

[Elizondo]

You can keep noting imaginary dodges if you want. You're just trolling yourself and allowing me to live rent free in your brain. Keep going please:)

Haha this comment from page 3 has come full circle

Do you always act this childish and stubborn when you're wrong?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Haha this comment from page 3 has come full circle

The only person acting childish here is yourself. I am just responding to your trolls with my own. I will happily have a civil discussion with you when you are ready. I can out wait and out troll the child:)

[Elizondo]

The only person acting childish here is yourself. I am just responding to your trolls with my own. I will happily have a civil discussion with you when you are ready. I can out wait and out troll the child:)

You're just being childish and stubborn and now you admit you're trolling

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You're just being childish and stubborn and now you admit you're trolling

The only person trolling here is yourself. I am just responding to your trolls with my own. I will happily have a civil discussion with you when you are ready. I can out troll the troll:)

[Elizondo]

The only person trolling here is yourself. I am just responding to your trolls with my own. I will happily have a civil discussion with you when you are ready. I can out troll the troll:)

You've now admitted you're trolling

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You've now admitted you're trolling

You think that not admitting to it is somehow clever lol. I am just responding to your trolls with my own. I will happily have a civil discussion with you when you are ready. I can out troll the troll:)

[Elizondo]

You think that not admitting to it is somehow clever lol. I am just responding to your trolls with my own. I will happily have a civil discussion with you when you are ready. I can out troll the troll:)

You're the only one trolling here. You've admitted it.

Accusing others of what you admit to is merely projection.

My original point still stands and you have yet to refute it. On the contrary, you've given up all the ground while my position has remained unchanged. Your continued buffoonery now trying to slap the label of troll on people and copy/pasting the same post over and over is just a tantrum and an effort to save face because you can't admit your comparison was silly and wrong.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You're the only one trolling here. You've admitted it.

Accusing others of what you admit to is merely projection.

My original point still stands and you have yet to refute it. On the contrary, you've given up all the ground while my position has remained unchanged. Your continued buffoonery now trying to slap the label of troll on people and copy/pasting the same post over and over is just a tantrum and an effort to save face because you can't admit your comparison was silly and wrong.

You think that not admitting to it is somehow clever lol. I am just responding to your trolls with my own. I will happily have a civil discussion with you when you are ready. I can out troll the troll:)

Asking the same question in 20 different ways because you can't win the argument is basically the same as copy pasting. You are just spending more effort on a bad troll than me:)

[Elizondo]

You think that not admitting to it is somehow clever lol. I am just responding to your trolls with my own. I will happily have a civil discussion with you when you are ready. I can out troll the troll:)

Asking the same question in 20 different ways because you can't win the argument is basically the same as copy pasting. You are just spending more effort on a bad troll than me:)

Why would I ask if Sleeper was triggered or not on red if I wasn't confident I won the argument 30 pages ago

You just can't admit your comparison was wrong and now you're beclowning yourself

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Why would I ask if Sleeper was triggered or not on red if I wasn't confident I won the argument 30 pages ago

You just can't admit your comparison was wrong and now you're beclowning yourself

I answered that question already! Please check the post history!

[Elizondo]

I answered that question already! Please check the post history!

Please confirm

Thanks!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Please confirm

Thanks!

I answered that question already! Please check the post history!

[Elizondo]

I answered that question already! Please check the post history!

Call me lazy. Don't want to dig through all the mess.

Please confirm. Thanks!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Call me lazy. Don't want to dig through all the mess.

Please confirm. Thanks!

You created this mess with your trolling. Now it is up to you to find the answers. You reap what you sow.

[Elizondo]

You created this mess with your trolling. Now it is up to you to find the answers. You reap what you sow.

I don't see a mess at all

I see a coward who is trying to hide behind accusations and refusing simple requests because he can't admit he was wrong

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I don't see a mess at all

I see a coward who is trying to hide behind accusations and refusing simple requests because he can't admit he was wrong

I can level the same accusation at you and you have no proof to refute it. But you are the one trying to flood this thread with posts. I wonder why that is?:)

[Elizondo]

I can level the same accusation at you and you have no proof to refute it. But you are the one trying to flood this thread with posts. I wonder why that is?:)

Are you even reading what you've copy/pasted the last few pages?

I'll ask again. Has Sleeper been triggered on Red? Yes or No

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Are you even reading what you've copy/pasted the last few pages?

I'll ask again. Has Sleeper been triggered on Red? Yes or No

You created this mess with your trolling. Now it is up to you to find the answers. You reap what you sow.

[Elizondo]

You created this mess with your trolling. Now it is up to you to find the answers. You reap what you sow.

Another Copy/Paste dodge noted

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Another Copy/Paste dodge noted

Keep noting my imaginary dodges. I will live rent free in your brain. Keep going please:)

[Elizondo]

Keep noting my imaginary dodges. I will live rent free in your brain. Keep going please:)

Copy/Paste Dodge noted from admitted troll

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Copy/Paste Dodge noted from admitted troll

Keep noting my imaginary dodges. I will live rent free in your brain. Keep going please:)

You think not admitting your a troll is clever lol.

[Elizondo]

Keep noting my imaginary dodges. I will live rent free in your brain. Keep going please:)

You think not admitting your a troll is clever lol.

You keep thinking that accusing other people of what you've admitted to doing is not projection

Clearly you got some issues my dude

All you have to do is admit the comparison to manastone was wrong. You were wrong. It's ok. It happens sometimes. Compare it to something else player triggered in game if you want. I really don't care.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

This is my last post in response to Elizondo. I will happily talk to him again when he is willing to not be a troll. Simply claiming you are right is not a valid argument, and the post history shows he hasn't rebutted anything.

I am sure he is banking on the 20 pages of nonsense to mask his poor arguments. It doesn't hide is trolling though:)

[Elizondo]

This is my last post in response to Elizondo. I will happily talk to him again when he is willing to not be a troll. Simply claiming you are right is not a valid argument, and the post history shows he hasn't rebutted anything.

I am sure he is banking on the 20 pages of nonsense to mask his poor arguments. It doesn't hide is trolling though:)

You're just admitting defeat

It's about time

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Reposting the last response to a non-Elizondo comment so the adults can continue the conversation:


thats litterally what your doing trying to compare manastone timer to awakening of sleeper. And dont give me that crap they couldnt fix the code for training. All they would of had to do. if a mob gets aggro it stays on the original person till it resets its aggro ie with a taunt or returns to its original position if FD made it lose aggro. they could fix it, they chose not to as its easier to leave it alone and let the community police it. People just wouldnt group with you as its hard to prove you trained someone unless a GM see's it. Ur logic is flawed sir.


Your comparison of Manastone is not the same as mine.

You're idea for fixing training wouldn't work, because it is very easy to exploit. If agro only stays on the original person, you could just train all the named mobs back to the entrance and people could just pick them out, no need to crawl the dungeon at all.

Do you know how all modern day games fix the training issue? They make the leashing radius of mobs like 100 feet lol. It certainly fixes the problem, but Everquest would have no danger whatsoever if you did that. You could just run through to the end boss and reset all the mobs.

You fail to grasp that not all problems are easy to solve, just because there is a quick code solution. Everything has a ripple effect, and the Everquest developers couldn't find a way to keep the dungeons dangerous without also having trains.

/wave

/wave

[Reiwa]

Reposting the last response to a non-Elizondo comment so the adults can continue the conversation

The adults who copypaste the same line for 2 pages to avoid answering a simple question?

:confused:

[Tunabros]

elizondo and DeathsSilkyMist should just make out and have sex already

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The adults who copypaste the same line for 2 pages to avoid answering a simple question?

:confused:

I did answer all of Elizondo's questions multiple times as the post history shows. He just keeps asking the same questions to troll me. Again, he is banking on the number of posts he has generated to mask his terrible arguments, and try to just say he is right.

What question did you want to ask?

[Elizondo]

I did answer all of Elizondo's questions

Nope. You just lied.

[Reiwa]

I did answer all of Elizondo's questions multiple times as the post history shows. He just keeps asking the same questions to troll me. Again, he is banking on the number of posts he has generated to mask his terrible arguments, and try to just say he is right.

What question did you want to ask?

It doesn't count as an answer if it doesn't answer the question.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

It doesn't count as an answer if it doesn't answer the question.

What question are you referring to?

[Reiwa]

What question are you referring to?

Is the Sleeper awakening triggered by players or programmed by the staff to occur at an appointed time?

I think that's it for you.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Is the Sleeper awakening triggered by players or programmed by the staff to occur at an appointed time?

I think that's it for you.

Oh you are referring to that trolling question. For some reason Elizondo believes I said somewhere that Sleeper isn't triggered. I never said that, and he can check through the post history to confirm lol. He seems to believe the only word you can use for activating a game mechanic is "triggered". Sadly he must not have his thesaurus nearby, or maybe he is triggered himself?:)

What I said was Sleeper is a a timer by vote. The vote is the "trigger". Every day players do not kill all four Warders, they are voting to extend the Sleeper timer by another day. When they do vote to kill all four Warders, they "trigger" Sleeper.

The reason why I say it is a timer by vote is because realistically speaking any server with a decent population statistically wakes the Sleeper. It is not a question of if, but when. If you want me to say the Sleeper script isn't triggered by a timer function, you are probably correct. I never made that claim on a technical level, and I haven't seen the code.

As Ooloo correctly pointed out earlier, my comparison of Manastone to Sleeper is an analogy. Manastone is a fixed timer, and Sleeper is a timer by vote. Both are true, because they could be programmed that way and they wouldn't work any differently to the end user than what we have now. Whether it is a timer that gets extended or a trigger that gets triggered is irrelevant to the point. Elizondo is basically trying to score points by thinking that if the script isn't triggered by a timer function, my whole analogy somehow becomes moot. It is quite silly.

[Jibartik]

I cant handle reading the crippling depression for 40 pages, is there a link to a good video ITT yet?

[Reiwa]

Oh you are referring to that trolling question. For some reason Elizondo believes I said somewhere that Sleeper isn't triggered. I never said that, and he can check through the post history to confirm lol. He seems to believe the only word you can use for activating a game mechanic is "triggered". Sadly he must not have his thesaurus nearby, or maybe he is triggered himself?:)

What I said was Sleeper is a a timer by vote. The vote is the "trigger". Every day players do not kill all four Warders, they are voting to extend the Sleeper timer by another day. When they do vote to kill all four Warders, they "trigger" Sleeper.

The reason why I say it is a timer by vote is because realistically speaking any server with a decent population statistically wakes the Sleeper. It is not a question of if, but when. If you want me to say the Sleeper script isn't triggered by a timer function, you are probably correct. I never made that claim on a technical level, and I haven't seen the code.

As Ooloo correctly pointed out earlier, my comparison of Manastone to Sleeper is an analogy. Manastone is a fixed timer, and Sleeper is a timer by vote. Both are true, because they could be programmed that way and they wouldn't work any differently to the end user than what we have now. Whether it is a timer that gets extended or a trigger that gets triggered is irrelevant to the point. Elizondo is basically trying to score points by thinking that if the script isn't triggered by a timer function, my whole analogy somehow becomes moot. It is quite silly.

cool cool, but not worth reading. you've told too many lies already.

[Elizondo]

Oh you are referring to that trolling question. For some reason Elizondo believes I said somewhere that Sleeper isn't triggered.

If it's triggered, there's no timer

Not like manastone

[DeathsSilkyMist]

cool cool, but not worth reading. you've told too many lies already.

Bad troll, and no proof to your claims lol. I wouldn't take a page out of Elizondo's book. What lie have I told?

[Tethler]

I feel dumber for having read this thread

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I feel dumber for having read this thread

Agreed. It is mind numbing that people think it is a dick move to play the game as intended.

[Tethler]

Agreed. It is mind numbing that people think it is a dick move to play the game as intended.

I was talking about you.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I was talking about you.

Why? What do you think I have done?

[Tethler]

You're unnecessarily fixated on the fact that this event was put in game to be triggered. It was, and everyone understands that. But, to paraphrase, you feel that people shouldn't be upset about it because it was programmed to exist in it's current state.

That, however, completely ignores the social contexts that exist surrounding the choice by players to actually trigger it. Players motivated to trigger it to the detriment of their competition (spite) is widely considered to be a "dick move", and is a valid reason for the affected players to be upset.

Ignoring this is unnecessarily pedantic, and frankly, makes your argument appear disingenuous.

I don't intend on debating this with you, just answering your question. It's fine if you don't agree.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You're unnecessarily fixated on the fact that this event was put in game to be triggered. It was, and everyone understands that. But, to paraphrase, you feel that people shouldn't be upset about it because it was programmed to exist in it's current state.

That, however, completely ignores the social contexts that exist surrounding the choice by players to actually trigger it. Players motivated to trigger it to the detriment of their competition (spite) is widely considered to be a "dick move", and is a valid reason for the affected players to be upset.

Ignoring this is unnecessarily pedantic, and frankly, makes your argument appear disingenuous.

I don't intend on debating this with you, just answering your question. It's fine if you don't agree.

I appreciate the reply and the honesty! Thank you.

I respect your request not to debate, so I will simply reply to what you have said.

I don't understand how I am "unnecessarily fixated" on the fact that it was meant to be triggered, but the other side is not "unnecessarily fixated" on the idea that triggering the Sleeper is an evil, spiteful act. The amount of forum threads and posts angry at Seal Team seems to prove the latter, not the former. It isn't like the "good" people are acting "good" when they post.

Everybody knew Sleeper would probably be awakened on Green. The statistics show it, and Seal Team hasn't been denying it as far as I am aware. Just like Manastone, you only have a limited time to get Warder loot. I am sorry if you were unable to get Warder loot, but that isn't anyone's fault but yourself. And I don't say this to be mean. Limited time means only some people will get it.

The reality is P99 is a game designed around scarcity. If you don't like it, play literally any other modern game. I think it is a bit unfair for people to deny Seal Team their fun when they have no other game to go to for this kind of experience. Literally everybody else can go play a game that hands them loot to fit their busy schedule. Isn't it a bit selfish to try and change every game you play to fit your schedule, even if it is the last game of it's kind and you have literally every other game to choose from?

[Elizondo]

Everybody knew Sleeper would probably be awakened on Green. The statistics show it, and Seal Team hasn't been denying it as far as I am aware. Just like Manastone, you only have a limited time to get Warder loot.

Can you still get warder loot on Red?

[Jibartik]

If ever there was a place to have custom p99 questing it'd be the sleeper, what a great way to reset green and merge it to blue.

Let the plaeyrs decide, will it take a year 4? Never?

It should have a bit more of an event ending though, with merchants going on rampages killing people and everything training everywhere 1 by 1 players dying, and being transferred to blue and then when after the last person dies, the server finally resets.

[Mazoku]

If ever there was a place to have custom p99 questing it'd be the sleeper, what a great way to reset green and merge it to blue.

Let the plaeyrs decide, will it take a year 4? Never?

It should have a bit more of an event ending though, with merchants going on rampages killing people and everything training everywhere 1 by 1 players dying, and being transferred to blue and then when after the last person dies, the server finally resets.



I volunteer to be the last person in this.

[Keza]

You're unnecessarily fixated on the fact that this event was put in game to be triggered. It was, and everyone understands that. But, to paraphrase, you feel that people shouldn't be upset about it because it was programmed to exist in it's current state.

That, however, completely ignores the social contexts that exist surrounding the choice by players to actually trigger it. Players motivated to trigger it to the detriment of their competition (spite) is widely considered to be a "dick move", and is a valid reason for the affected players to be upset.

Ignoring this is unnecessarily pedantic, and frankly, makes your argument appear disingenuous.

If you want to point fingers at the people who are dicks you should start with the developers rather than the people who are trying to fulfil the ultimate finality of green's lifespan before it's canned by p99's staff. What would be a bigger waste, someone losing out on an item or the entire server never experiencing Kerafyrm's awakening?

What would be the good-guy move? To not disrupt it, let the servers merge and let the people obsessed with loot farming continue their warped mindset of pixel grinding forever? I disagree. The concept of Kerafyrm was flawed by the devs - who probably had good intentions in regards to story* telling - and by the virtue of P99 being a clone it's flawed all the same. What remains is the playerbase wishing to see what they couldn't all those years ago, and is that any different from the desire of someone wanting their best-in-slot item from a warder? Isn't it the exact same? Is an item more important than waking the sleeper, when both are just a dream or a memory of something you never had?

Unless you have a good reason for green/blue to continue indefinitely while consuming the lives of the people who play it until they die of a pulmonary embolism I would call any argument against finality disingenuous. The end needs to happen, otherwise there is no meaning to whatever item you obtained from the warder. What is more disingenuous than greed for the sake of it? What is the purpose of blue, or the green that bleeds onto it? How can someone be a dick for preventing others from wasting their lives on an emu server at the end of it's rope?

[Jibartik]

Everyone is literally a huge dick for not dropping everything and as a group escorting you on a CR

[Tethler]

If you want to point fingers at the people who are dicks you should start with the developers rather than the people who are trying to fulfil the ultimate finality of green's lifespan before it's canned by p99's staff. What would be a bigger waste, someone losing out on an item or the entire server never experiencing Kerafyrm's awakening?

What would be the good-guy move? To not disrupt it, let the servers merge and let the people obsessed with loot farming continue their warped mindset of pixel grinding forever? I disagree. The concept of Kerafyrm was flawed by the devs - who probably had good intentions in regards to story* telling - and by the virtue of P99 being a clone it's flawed all the same. What remains is the playerbase wishing to see what they couldn't all those years ago, and is that any different from the desire of someone wanting their best-in-slot item from a warder? Isn't it the exact same? Is an item more important than waking the sleeper, when both are just a dream or a memory of something you never had?

Unless you have a good reason for green/blue to continue indefinitely while consuming the lives of the people who play it until they die of a pulmonary embolism I would call any argument against finality disingenuous. The end needs to happen, otherwise there is no meaning to whatever item you obtained from the warder. What is more disingenuous than greed for the sake of it? What is the purpose of blue, or the green that bleeds onto it? How can someone be a dick for preventing others from wasting their lives on an emu server at the end of it's rope?

I wasn't saying that the sleeper should never be awakened. The ogre was saying that he can't understand why people were upset, so I explained some of the reasons. The social aspects were a big part of why a lot of people were/are upset. A ST leader is on the record saying that they wouldn't wake it before more people got to experience the content. Some in ST also believe that Kingdom broke encounter rules to obtain a number of keys, so waking the sleeper was to give Kingdom the finger.

In a social context, being dishonest/not sticking with your word, and being spiteful are behaviors that people tend to not like. This is why many people were upset and this is why a group of guilds teamed up to kill Yelinak to show their disatisfaction.

For transparency's sake, I'm a member of Kingdom, but my play time the last year is so limited that i have like a 3% raid attendance, so there is no way I was ever going to get a key. It doesn't really impact me personally, and I'm not personally angry. That said, I can still call a duck a duck when it quacks in our collective faces.

[Abukii]

This thread is shit. One pussy refuses to say dicks for some reason and two idiots arguing over manastone/sleeper should just go fuck already. Hope this helps

[Tethler]

This thread is shit. One pussy refuses to say dicks for some reason and two idiots arguing over manastone/sleeper should just go fuck already. Hope this helps

Super helpful, thank you!

[Elizondo]

This thread is shit. One pussy refuses to say dicks for some reason and two idiots arguing over manastone/sleeper should just go fuck already. Hope this helps

He's claiming devs removing manastone is like players waking sleeper for a reason

Sorry you're too dumb to see it

Hope that helps

[sajbert]

Can we drop the bullshit, please?

We got a user pretending this isn’t loot denail because of Essence Lens quest. Lmao, no comment.

We got users pretending this wasn’t pure selfishness. Of course it was. ST wanted to have waking the sleeper on their list of accomplishments. They weren’t willing to risk that for the sake of other guilds being allowed to have a go at legacy warder loot. They weren’t even willing to plan the awakening well ahead of time and on a weekend when most people in both time zones could realistically attend the once-in-a-server event.

Then we got people pretending that this isn’t what the devs want. It’s clear that the devs wanted a system for green that premieres the poopsockers. That’s why I also laughed when ST threw a hissy fit about bag limits.

To summarize, ST are pussies and entitled selfish players who use the rationale that since they burned the most hotpockets during batphone calls they deserved to wake the sleeper. Usrrs who use a semblance of balance between real and virtual life are asked to play on another emu. The former is of course bullcrap, ST aren’t deserving of anything, the later however has a ring of truth to it. The P99 devs set up rules for the server that created this, this is their vision of classic Everquest.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Can we drop the bullshit, please?

We got a user pretending this isn’t loot denail because of Essence Lens quest. Lmao, no comment.

We got users pretending this wasn’t pure selfishness. Of course it was. ST wanted to have waking the sleeper on their list of accomplishments. They weren’t willing to risk that for the sake of other guilds being allowed to have a go at legacy warder loot. They weren’t even willing to plan the awakening well ahead of time and on a weekend when most people in both time zones could realistically attend the once-in-a-server event.

Then we got people pretending that this isn’t what the devs want. It’s clear that the devs wanted a system for green that premieres the poopsockers. That’s why I also laughed when ST threw a hissy fit about bag limits.

To summarize, ST are pussies and entitled selfish players who use the rationale that since they burned the most hotpockets during batphone calls they deserved to wake the sleeper. Usrrs who use a semblance of balance between real and virtual life are asked to play on another emu. The former is of course bullcrap, ST aren’t deserving of anything, the later however has a ring of truth to it. The P99 devs set up rules for the server that created this, this is their vision of classic Everquest.

It isn't pretending, you are factually denying Essence Lens by keeping Sleeper sleeping. To pretend otherwise is just silly. Or do you have some other definition of loot denial we are not privy to?

People aren't pretending it isn't selfish. Everquest is a selfish game by nature lol. That is why guilds compete to get loot, they don't simply share. I am not sure how saying it's selfish is an argument against Seal Team. Does Kingdom just give all their loot away to other guilds?

Basically to summarize you are mad and dislike Seal Team lol. That is why half of your whole argument is just insulting Seal Team.

[sounion]

Keeping the sleeper sleeping is loot denial of you want to frame it that way. But if everyone capable of waking the sleeper on a server AGREES to that denial, then it's a non issue.

I cant believe this nit-picky bullshit is in its 43rd page. Go outside. I'm disappointed in myself for reading this far.

To Seal Team decision makers (cause it wasn't everyone people), wish you weren't dicks about it.

Also to Seal Team, grats on the accomplishment. You had to neck-beard, hot-pocket, forego a life, and piss off an entire server to do it, but you DID accomplish a feat which deserves some respect. There most certainly will be a price to pay beyond what you've paid already, but you did earn the opportunity.

[Phraxas]

It isn't pretending, you are factually denying Essence Lens by keeping Sleeper sleeping. To pretend otherwise is just silly. Or do you have some other definition of loot denial we are not privy to?

People aren't pretending it isn't selfish. Everquest is a selfish game by nature lol. That is why guilds compete to get loot, they don't simply share. I am not sure how saying it's selfish is an argument against Seal Team. Does Kingdom just give all their loot away to other guilds?

Basically to summarize you are mad and dislike Seal Team lol. That is why half of your whole argument is just insulting Seal Team.

The answer is no, people forget Kingdom said no to open raids in classic cause they didn't want to share....

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Keeping the sleeper sleeping is loot denial of you want to frame it that way. But if everyone capable of waking the sleeper on a server AGREES to that denial, then it's a non issue.

I cant believe this nit-picky bullshit is in its 43rd page. Go outside. I'm disappointed in myself for reading this far.

To Seal Team decision makers (cause it wasn't everyone people), wish you weren't dicks about it.

Also to Seal Team, grats on the accomplishment. You had to neck-beard, hot-pocket, forego a life, and piss off an entire server to do it, but you DID accomplish a feat which deserves some respect. There most certainly will be a price to pay beyond what you've paid already, but you did earn the opportunity.

It's not framing, it's fact. The only framing going on is people claiming you can loot deny Scepter of Destruction and Shroud of Longevity, but you can't loot deny Essence Lens lol. Even if everyone agrees that it's only loot denial for waking Sleeper, they are still factually incorrect. Everybody could agree that the sun no longer exists, but that doesn't make it true.

Again, you are just mad at Seal Team. Half your entire post is just a backhanded compliment.

If you are so much better than everybody on these forums, why bother posting here? Just go outside:)

[sajbert]

It isn't pretending, you are factually denying Essence Lens by keeping Sleeper sleeping. To pretend otherwise is just silly. Or do you have some other definition of loot denial we are not privy to?

People aren't pretending it isn't selfish. Everquest is a selfish game by nature lol. That is why guilds compete to get loot, they don't simply share. I am not sure how saying it's selfish is an argument against Seal Team. Does Kingdom just give all their loot away to other guilds?

Basically to summarize you are mad and dislike Seal Team lol. That is why half of your whole argument is just insulting Seal Team.
You’re actually doubling down on the Lens argument? That’s hilarious. Noone expects the sleeper to be around forever and the Lens quest will be available for as long as p99 exists after that. It’s one item which you wouldn’t even know if you had equipped vs fungal regen robe and gnome illusion masks on top of resistance stones and whatnot. Nobody was being denied the Lens quest and the people who already had obtained the warder loot they wanted were the only ones who’d really have to unwillingly WAIT for the lens quest. Don’t compare the two, it’s NOT the same thing.

And I wouldn’t argue EQ is a selfish game in its nature, people are selfish in their nature, or rather, enough people are.

I’m only sad at ST for picking a poor time, weak. I don’t need any warder loot.

[Phraxas]

You’re actually doubling down on the Lens argument? That’s hilarious. Noone expects the sleeper to be around forever and the Lens quest will be available for as long as p99 exists after that. It’s one item which you wouldn’t even know if you had equipped vs fungal regen robe and gnome illusion masks on top of resistance stones and whatnot. Nobody was being denied the Lens quest and the people who already had obtained the warder loot they wanted were the only ones who’d really have to unwillingly WAIT for the lens quest. Don’t compare the two, it’s NOT the same thing.

And I wouldn’t argue EQ is a selfish game in its nature, people are selfish in their nature, or rather, enough people are.

I’m only sad at ST for picking a poor time, weak. I don’t need any warder loot.

curious why the time was poor? can you elaborate for us.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You’re actually doubling down on the Lens argument? That’s hilarious. Noone expects the sleeper to be around forever and the Lens quest will be available for as long as p99 exists after that. It’s one item which you wouldn’t even know if you had equipped vs fungal regen robe and gnome illusion masks on top of resistance stones and whatnot. Nobody was being denied the Lens quest and the people who already had obtained the warder loot they wanted were the only ones who’d really have to unwillingly WAIT for the lens quest. Don’t compare the two, it’s NOT the same thing.

And I wouldn’t argue EQ is a selfish game in its nature, people are selfish in their nature, or rather, enough people are.

I’m only sad at ST for picking a poor time, weak. I don’t need any warder loot.

They are both loot denial. You can't loot deny one without loot denying the other. It's fact, and you can't change it. You can claim the sun doesn't exist, but it will keep on shining.

Essence Lens is better than all Warder Loot, with the exception of SoD, Shroud, and maybe Mask of Tinkering. All other Warder loot is pretty sub par, even the resistance stones. So you could easily argue Essence Lens is the better option anyway, as more classes can use it.

Everquest was made by humans. Not really sure how you can say a game made by selfish humans is not infused with that same selfishness:) It isn't like Everquest was produced by nature and we discovered it.

And while you may be right that Seal Team didn't pick the optimal time, I don't think people will ever agree as to which time will be optimal. Since we don't have EU servers, there will be hundreds of players missing out in all cases just due to the time zone.

[Tunabros]

watch two people who never seen warders or got warder loot argue about warder loot

lol

[DeathsSilkyMist]

watch two people who never seen warders or got warder loot argue about warder loot

lol

Yup, you can debate without getting warder loot. That is not a requirement.

[sajbert]

Essence Lens is better than all Warder Loot, with the exception of SoD, Shroud, and maybe Mask of Tinkering. All other Warder loot is pretty sub par, even the resistance stones. So you could easily argue Essence Lens is the better option anyway, as more classes can use it.

So besides the actual legacy warder loot that anyone really cares about (save easier access to primal weapons), Lense is better? Great argument.

And no, delaying the quest is not the same as flat out removing the reward for others.

watch two people who never seen warders or got warder loot argue about warder loot

lol
Wasn’t on blue p99 when sleeper was awoken. On Green most of us were denied the experience, which is why there is an argument in the first place. Not gonna no-life and wake up at 4am just for pixels that’s of no use to my class anyway. Given 6-12 months the rest of the raiding guilds would have gotten there.

But yeah great point, I’m sure if only ST could argue the matter here there’s be more or a consensus.

[cd288]

So besides the actual legacy warder loot that anyone really cares about (save easier access to primal weapons), Lense is better? Great argument.

And no, delaying the quest is not the same as flat out removing the reward for others.


Wasn’t on blue p99 when sleeper was awoken. On Green most of us were denied the experience, which is why there is an argument in the first place. Not gonna no-life and wake up at 4am just for pixels that’s of no use to my class anyway. Given 6-12 months the rest of the raiding guilds would have gotten there.

But yeah great point, I’m sure if only ST could argue the matter here there’s be more or a consensus.

I would just ignore death silky he is one of those people who can never admit he’s wrong and will just keep making up different arguments and moving goalposts every time

[Phraxas]

Wasn’t on blue p99 when sleeper was awoken. On Green most of us were denied the experience, which is why there is an argument in the first place. Not gonna no-life and wake up at 4am just for pixels that’s of no use to my class anyway. Given 6-12 months the rest of the raiding guilds would have gotten there.

so you did nothing to get warder/primals or experience ST but you think you deserve the right to the warder/primals or experience of ST.

Remind you of something in the society we look down upon??

[DeathsSilkyMist]

So besides the actual legacy warder loot that anyone really cares about (save easier access to primal weapons), Lense is better? Great argument.

And no, delaying the quest is not the same as flat out removing the reward for others.


Wasn’t on blue p99 when sleeper was awoken. On Green most of us were denied the experience, which is why there is an argument in the first place. Not gonna no-life and wake up at 4am just for pixels that’s of no use to my class anyway. Given 6-12 months the rest of the raiding guilds would have gotten there.

But yeah great point, I’m sure if only ST could argue the matter here there’s be more or a consensus.

Shroud and SoD are only used on 2 classes. Essence Lens can easily argued to be better, since it is generally second or third BiS for all classes. Good luck getting BiS Earring/Ring slot, which is Vulak/AoW loot. 14 classes can benefit from Essence Lens instead of two. Also, you do not need SoD, Shroud, or Essence Lens to do any content in the game. It isn't like they are game changing. People just like them because they are legacy.

Delaying waking Sleeper is denying the Essence Lens rewards lol. It's factually true. Every day Sleeper is sleeping, you can't get Essence Lens. That is denying loot. If you never wake the sleeper (which a lot of people are suggesting), that is the equivalent of removing Essence Lens entirely. Arguing for keeping the Sleeper sleeping forever is arguing to permanently remove Essence Lens from the game.

I would just ignore death silky he is one of those people who can never admit he’s wrong and will just keep making up different arguments and moving goalposts every time

You have yet to provide any evidence for these baseless claims:) I have admitted to being wrong plenty of times. But I don't have to do it when I am right and you are wrong lol. Just because you disagree with me doesn't make me wrong and you right.

Most of the time when people claim I am "moving goalposts", it is because they are simply too lazy to read my previous comments, so they don't know what I have and haven't said.

Also, I don't tell people to ignore you when I disagree with you. Shame. You're simply angry I don't agree with you, and are trying to discredit me any way you can with silly comments like this.

[sajbert]

so you did nothing to get warder/primals or experience ST but you think you deserve the right to the warder/primals or experience of ST.

Remind you of something in the society we look down upon??

I unlike ST don’t believe I am entitled to anything, I enjoy P99 at a more reasonable pace instead of monopolizing content by blazing through it at expense of real life function and obligations. I don’t believe that going to the dumbest lengths is a good metric for who should get to experienxe what on P99 but that’s exactly what the devs wanted for Green p99.

I’ve also been a member of ST, I know of the ”welfare pixel”-jargon. Oh and I don’t look down on people on welfare, but you do you man. You sound like a real success.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I unlike ST don’t believe I am entitled to anything, I enjoy P99 at a more reasonable pace instead of monopolizing content by blazing through it at expense of real life function and obligations. I don’t believe that going to the dumbest lengths is a good metric for who should get to experienxe what on P99 but that’s exactly what the devs wanted for Green p99.

I’ve also been a member of ST, I know of the ”welfare pixel”-jargon. Oh and I don’t look down on people on welfare, but you do you man. You sound like a real success.

Why is playing a game mechanic as intended entitled? And why is forcing everybody to play the game your way (keeping Sleeper sleeping) not entitled?

[sajbert]

Why is playing a game mechanic as intended entitled? And why is forcing everybody to play the game your way (keeping Sleeper sleeping) not entitled?
I haven’t forced ST to do anything, I am stating that they perceive themselves to be entitled to loot and content. I’m stating that they chickened out going for wakening now instead of picking a better date or allow other guilds to partake in warder content. I believe that reflects poorly on the guild. With ST being the top guild on the server I also believe it reflects poorly on the P99 servers and community as a whole.

In my view the P99 devs have an unfortunate stance on the matter and I hope it will change one day for future P99-servers that promote a healthier balance between life and everquesting. That’s why I have posted in this topic. Hopefully it will also discourage future guilds from being as weak as ST. Go out with a bang, not a fart.

[Elizondo]

ST made the choice to trigger the event

Want to forum PR Propaganda to try and convince people to not be mad about it

I'd rather they'd just gloat about it. This is embarrassing.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I haven’t forced ST to do anything, I am stating that they perceive themselves to be entitled to loot and content. I’m stating that they chickened out going for wakening now instead of picking a better date or allow other guilds to partake in warder content. I believe that reflects poorly on the guild. With ST being the top guild on the server I also believe it reflects poorly on the P99 servers and community as a whole.

In my view the P99 devs have an unfortunate stance on the matter and I hope it will change one day for future P99-servers that promote a healthier balance between life and everquesting. That’s why I have posted in this topic. Hopefully it will also discourage future guilds from being as weak as ST. Go out with a bang, not a fart.

If you aren't suggesting forcing them to keep Sleeper sleeping, then it is perfectly fine to wake the Sleeper. Who cares how they perceive themselves? They are the top guild on the server and have the right to wake Sleeper whenever they want. That isn't entitlement, that is something they have earned by getting more ST keys than any other guild.

Are other guilds entitled to Warder loot content? If so, why is that entitlement good? I am not sure how other guild's feeling entitled to Warder loot is better than Seal Team feeling entitled to kill Sleeper. Not saying any guild feels entitled here, just trying to understand your argument.

[Phraxas]

I unlike ST don’t believe I am entitled to anything, I enjoy P99 at a more reasonable pace instead of monopolizing content by blazing through it at expense of real life function and obligations. I don’t believe that going to the dumbest lengths is a good metric for who should get to experienxe what on P99 but that’s exactly what the devs wanted for Green p99.

I’ve also been a member of ST, I know of the ”welfare pixel”-jargon. Oh and I don’t look down on people on welfare, but you do you man. You sound like a real success.

who said anything bout looking down at welfare? i dont look down on welfare but i do look down on entitlement and believing you deserve something just because you exist. and thats what all these, ST is toxic for waking the sleeper complaints are.

they go 7 months without competing for a single key, 2 months later complain they didnt get a shot... thats not welfare, thats entitlement friend

[Elizondo]

who said anything bout looking down at welfare? i dont look down on welfare but i do look down on entitlement and believing you deserve something just because you exist. and thats what all these, ST is toxic for waking the sleeper complaints are.

they go 7 months without competing for a single key, 2 months later complain they didnt get a shot... thats not welfare, thats entitlement friend

ST chose to permanently remove content from the server forever

You want people to be happy?

[sajbert]

who said anything bout looking down at welfare? i dont look down on welfare but i do look down on entitlement and believing you deserve something just because you exist. and thats what all these, ST is toxic for waking the sleeper complaints are.

they go 7 months without competing for a single key, 2 months later complain they didnt get a shot... thats not welfare, thats entitlement friend
*covered in feces*
“Look, nobody want to wrestle me so I deserve this trophy!”

Like I said earler, going to the dumbest lengths possible is a poor metric for who deserves anything. If heaven forbid ST found something more productive to so with their time other guilds would be enjoying Sleeper’s Tomb without going to the same lengths ST did.

[Rethalis]

Here you can host your own server and wake up the sleeper on your own time

https://docs.eqemu.io/

[sajbert]

Here you can host your own server and wake up the sleeper on your own time

https://docs.eqemu.io/

Glad that’s sorted then.

[Phraxas]

ST chose to permanently remove content from the server forever

You want people to be happy?

i dont expect anyone to be happy but be mad at the lack of effort put in by yourself or guild/leadership. stop blaming ST because everyone had a choice, and choices were made.

[Elizondo]

i dont expect anyone to be happy but be mad at the lack of effort put in by yourself or guild/leadership. stop blaming ST because everyone had a choice, and choices were made.

Only one guild chose to remove content from the server forever

Why not just gloat about it? Why are you trying to convince people to blame themselves for something you did

Hell, DSM Criteria is trying to convince people to blame staff for what you did. You should give him an audacity medal for effort

[Phraxas]

Only one guild chose to remove content from the server forever

Why not just gloat about it? Why are you trying to convince people to blame themselves for something you did

Hell, DSM Criteria is trying to convince people to blame staff for what you did. You should give him an audacity medal for effort

your right, and the other guilds chose Sleepers wasn't important for more then 7 Months. So in the end we all live with the choices we made.

[Abukii]

Sorry you joined the wrong guild and are mad about it. But I love the idiots in Castle etc who think they'd ever sniff ST loot if it stayed around longer (you wouldn't)

[Phraxas]

Sorry you joined the wrong guild and are mad about it. But I love the idiots in Castle etc who think they'd ever sniff ST loot if it stayed around longer (you wouldn't)

i wouldnt even say that, more like im sorry everyone assumed/thought the sleeper would be asleep forever so you decided to do nothing to get yourself/guild into the Tomb.

But I can say for those who did do something, got the keys, they got primals...

[Elizondo]

Sorry you joined the wrong guild and are mad about it. But I love the idiots in Castle etc who think they'd ever sniff ST loot if it stayed around longer (you wouldn't)

There we go. Much better.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

i wouldnt even say that, more like im sorry everyone assumed/thought the sleeper would be asleep forever so you decided to do nothing to get yourself/guild into the Tomb.

But I can say for those who did do something, got the keys, they got primals...

Exactly. Everybody knew Sleeper would be awoken by the top guild. That is the normal strategy.

[Abukii]

i wouldnt even say that, more like im sorry everyone assumed/thought the sleeper would be asleep forever so you decided to do nothing to get yourself/guild into the Tomb.

But I can say for those who did do something, got the keys, they got primals...

I mean it, the moral outrage for shit they'd never see has been hilarious. Kingdom could've forced our hand by doing keys when we did but chose the easy route hoping for bag limits/rotations (again). Every member of theirs got fucking played and will soon realize it, got to keep up a united front when it's rotting from within though.

[cd288]

I mean it, the moral outrage for shit they'd never see has been hilarious. Kingdom could've forced our hand by doing keys when we did but chose the easy route hoping for bag limits/rotations (again). Every member of theirs got fucking played and will soon realize it, got to keep up a united front when it's rotting from within though.

As someone who is not in a raiding guild I just love the Seal Team deflecting when really they were just getting scared that they were starting to get some competition and since they couldn’t handle it they decided to just wake the Sleeper lol

[Abukii]

As someone who is not in a raiding guild I just love the Seal Team deflecting when really they were just getting scared that they were starting to get some competition and since they couldn’t handle it they decided to just wake the Sleeper lol

Only dipshits say we were scared, 0 competition and then they cheated to get keys at the last leg which made the final push for waking it happen. Sorry you are too dumb

[Skarne]

Only dipshits say we were scared, 0 competition and then they cheated to get keys at the last leg which made the final push for waking it happen. Sorry you are too dumb

So your reasoning is just because they supposedly cheated? That’s just as spiteful lol. It’s better to just say straight up you guys wanted to wake the sleeper. There’s no shame in that in of itself. Acting like you are is what makes the guild look like a bunch of man babies.

[Abukii]

Sure Decapolis95, I'll try to sum it all up for you

Sleeper's Tomb is a raid zone in Velious. To enter, you need a key that drops off of raid dragons that take 25-75 people to kill. They drop a maximum of one key at a time, so it takes months to key a full raid force for the Tomb

The final bosses of the tomb are 4 warders. They drop legacy loot (legacy means at some point it won't drop anymore), as well as primal weapons which are a huge boost to raid DPS.

Lorewise, the warders have been tasked with keeping The Sleeper (aka Kerafyrm) asleep. As long as any warder is alive, Kerafyrm will stay asleep. Once you kill the 4th warder, without waiting first for the others to respawn, Kerafyrm will awaken. This only happens once per server. After this point, the warders will never respawn again.

There's a really cool script that then happens where Kerayrm then goes from zone to zone, killing everything in it's path - players and NPCs alike. Lots of cool plotline / lore stuff as well

Kerafyrm was meant to be unkillable. Level 99 and kills everyone in one round

There were just a couple servers back on live that waited to awaken the sleeper. 2 expansions later, in PoP era, at level 65, a guild was finally able to kill it. It took hundreds of people hours to do it. The strategy involved was corpse cannoning - dying, resurrecting, and getting back in there, over, and over, and over. There was actually a lot of interesting drama over this stuff back in the day. For example the first guild that had a shot to kill the sleeper, got it to ~15% HP, and then the GMs manually despawned it, assuming they were using cheats/exploits (they were not).

As for P99 politics, many want the sleeper to stay asleep for ever so that people can keep farming the Warders for loot. There are many different reasons why players in Seal Team want to awaken it (as well as many reasons why some want to keep it asleep)
1) Yes, there are some players, who view p99 green as a competitive server, and want to prevent other guild forces from getting that loot, so they can continue to compete with an advantage
2) There are many like myself who have dreamed of watching this event. I missed it 20 years ago when I played EQ on live, and I've always wanted to see it. I played on a TLP server trying to witness it, but I was on a plane the day they woke it =/
3) Many are afraid that a rogue force will wake it in the middle of the night, and they don't want to miss the once in a server event. Yes, there is definitely a rogue force that does want the sleeper to awaken at any cost
4) Many ST members want it to waken so as a guild they can focus on other targets instead of always prioritizing tomb targets first
5) There has been a ton of drama in the guild, and many want to awaken it so the drama and the bickering ends
6) Some players see the event as the culmination of the purpose of p99 - to relive the progression of classic -> velious
7) Once the sleeper awakes, new content is added. Namely Essence Lens quest items. Some players want the sleeper to awaken so they can work on these quests
8) Many ST members want to keep it asleep to farm loot for themselves and their friends
9) Many ST members want to keep it asleep so that other guilds will have a chance to kill warders and get legacy items before they go away for ever
10) Some ST players are just team players and are happy to do whatever leadership wants, supporting them and their teammates
11) Some ST members believe that Kingdom has been cheating by breaking the engagement rules on Sleeper's Tomb key mobs (namely the 1 minute 97% rule). They see his as an FU to Kingdom (and in the case of some members, an FU to the GMs), for ignoring these rules and others

In reality, Seal Team is a guild of over 100 active members, and we have varying different opinions and goals. I can tell you that even those leading the guild have been incredibly split on the issue. However, the rogue kill force has put it somewhat out of our control, and most of us agree that we would rather do it on our own terms, than to randomly wake up one day and discovering someone woke it overnight

Let me know if you have any questions

It's a really cool event, and I hope you're able to watch it! Either on the stream, or with your own character
Page 1, reading is knowledge.

[LevelUpLarry]

Hey y'all!

For anyone interested in a super condensed version of the event the other night, feel free to check it out on the YouTubes!

https://youtu.be/G1EbSl-UuQ0

Cheers!

[Abukii]

You did a great job Larry

[LevelUpLarry]

You did a great job Larry

Too kind! Thank you so much! It was fun to have the opportunity to capture the moment. :)

[Elizondo]

Page 1, reading is knowledge.

Just a sad and pathetic attempt to shape the narrative through forum propaganda

Nothing more

[Phraxas]

Just a sad and pathetic attempt to shape the narrative through forum propaganda

Nothing more

Propaganda? Please the Federation Zerg, and Kingdom has been using propaganda for years against Seal Team. And it only works within their ranks.

Ever ask yourself for all the self propaganda being spewed by Kingdom leadership, all these people who got smart and see past it, they left kingdom and other guilds right? How many that left applied to ST, joined ST, how many went back to kingdom and was like wow y’all were right… Seal Team is toxic… I’ll wait…

Now count how many left kingdom, joined seal team, and is still with seal team… yea propaganda it’s a hell of a drug when used blindly…

[Tethler]

Propaganda? Please the Federation Zerg, and Kingdom has been using propaganda for years against Seal Team. And it only works within their ranks.

Ever ask yourself for all the self propaganda being spewed by Kingdom leadership, all these people who got smart and see past it, they left kingdom and other guilds right? How many that left applied to ST, joined ST, how many went back to kingdom and was like wow y’all were right… Seal Team is toxic… I’ll wait…

Now count how many left kingdom, joined seal team, and is still with seal team… yea propaganda it’s a hell of a drug when used blindly…

Or maybe those that were too pixel hungry also happen to be OK with a certain level of toxicity if it means getting what they want.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Propaganda? Please the Federation Zerg, and Kingdom has been using propaganda for years against Seal Team. And it only works within their ranks.

Ever ask yourself for all the self propaganda being spewed by Kingdom leadership, all these people who got smart and see past it, they left kingdom and other guilds right? How many that left applied to ST, joined ST, how many went back to kingdom and was like wow y’all were right… Seal Team is toxic… I’ll wait…

Now count how many left kingdom, joined seal team, and is still with seal team… yea propaganda it’s a hell of a drug when used blindly…

Don't react to Elizondo until he is ready to be an adult again. He clearly hasn't read this thread, and prefers to just say stuff. We can happily welcome him back when he has stopped caring more about his post count than the content of them.

[Tethler]

Sorest winners I've ever seen on this box

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Sorest winners I've ever seen on this box

Sorest losers, too. I don't think I have ever seen so many people angry at others playing the game as intended. On a non-instanced MMO, people will always lose out on loot. That is part of the game. There are plenty of games where you can get all the loot you want at a quick pace. There is nothing wrong with that, either.

[Phraxas]

Or maybe those that were too pixel hungry also happen to be OK with a certain level of toxicity if it means getting what they want.

Every single one of them were pixel hungry?? Let god take the wheel if every single person who left kingdom to join ST were just pixel hungry loot whores…

[Tethler]

Every single one of them were pixel hungry?? Let god take the wheel if every single person who left kingdom to join ST were just pixel hungry loot whores…

Maybe not every person, sure. But I'd bet every dollar to my name that pixels is a primary motivator for the majority of people jumping ship for the top guild.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Maybe not every person, sure. But I'd bet every dollar to my name that pixels is a primary motivator for the majority of people jumping ship for the top guild.

Honestly though, whats the problem with that? Gaining loot is one of the primary mechanics of the game, and small guilds cannot get high end loot. Its a great way to get the items you want.

[Phraxas]

Maybe not every person, sure. But I'd bet every dollar to my name that pixels is a primary motivator for the majority of people jumping ship for the top guild.

now just think back to all the people that have told you, Seal team is toxic. think real hard....

All those people, how many were ex-Seal Team that left and joined Kingdom...

point will be proven lol

[cd288]

now just think back to all the people that have told you, Seal team is toxic. think real hard....

All those people, how many were ex-Seal Team that left and joined Kingdom...

point will be proven lol

I never joined kingdom and seal team is definitely toxic lol

[Elizondo]

Propaganda? Please the Federation Zerg, and Kingdom has been using propaganda for years against Seal Team. And it only works within their ranks.

Ever ask yourself for all the self propaganda being spewed by Kingdom leadership, all these people who got smart and see past it, they left kingdom and other guilds right? How many that left applied to ST, joined ST, how many went back to kingdom and was like wow y’all were right… Seal Team is toxic… I’ll wait…

Now count how many left kingdom, joined seal team, and is still with seal team… yea propaganda it’s a hell of a drug when used blindly…

People flock to where the best loot is. It's been that way since Live.

I've never said ST is "toxic'. You have me confused with someone else. I really don't care about ST. I don't care about Kingdom. My perspective of anyone playing the game that hardcore within this era of EQ's life cycle is pity. We're not kids anymore.

The old school raiders on Blue were much more savvy at image messaging than this current crop of people on Green. They embraced their hatred of anyone that would challenge them. They weren't afraid of being hated. They relished in it. They didn't play victim and whine or make pathetic excuses in an effort to convince people not to be mad at them. They wanted to be the villain and there is nothing wrong with that. They enjoyed being bad. Servers need a villain. It motivates competition.

Seal Team's problem is they are trying to straddle the fence between trying to be the server's hero and villain. It just hasn't worked. I think waking the sleeper wasn't calculated. It was a compulsive, rushed decision. It was a reaction to a perceived threat that could no longer be ignored. The fact that a vote even had to be taken says a lot. There wasn't even consensus within your own ranks. That builds resentment that may fester over time. We'll see.

When Rampage did it, it was a big middle finger to everyone. It was at the time that took place, a going away present. They took a dump on the entire community and lit it on fire and enjoyed every minute of it. If you're going to do it, that's the way to do it.

What annoys me are the attempts at shaping the narrative with a bunch of political BS in an attempt to gas light people on the forums. I understand why. I get it. It's because Seal Team still has to play here with everyone. You still have to share the same box with an entire server that now hates you for what you did. So how to try and raise your sagging poll numbers?

Let's go over the talking points in this thread alone thus far that are beyond absurd and fooling no one:

Players choosing to trigger an event that has no timer is a timer

Triggering Sleeper is like the devs removing manastone

If you're mad at Seal Team you should be mad at server staff too. They created the server. It's their fault

Be mad at your yourself

We shouldn't focus on choice

Be mad at Kingdom

Not triggering Sleeper denied essence lens or whatever

Kingdom may have cheesed a few keys. It's their fault.

There are so many more I've seen in other threads and the list keeps growing. We've all seen this dog and pony show play out time after time after time after time as guilds compete for bragging rights over loot.

Sifting through the Aftermath (pun intended) my personal take is instead of giving the entire server the middle finger like Rampage did, Seal Team chose to give Kingdom the middle finger and are now trying to shift blame when you should have went all in, guns blazing and embraced your now earned status as server villain.

Trying to pull the wool over people's eyes pretending you're still the heroes is only going to make everyone hate you even more. Why fight it? Just embrace it. You might enjoy being the villain and there is nothing wrong with that.

17474

[Phraxas]

Sure got a lot to say for people you pity buddy.

If you don’t care about hardcore gaming in EQ in 2022. If you don’t care about Seal Team, if you don’t care about Kingdom. Then why are you posting anything about the event, said it yourself you don’t care so you were ever going to be in the tomb…

Sounds like you liked the sirken era… well that just isn’t p99 anymore my friend embrace the new political side of p99 or continue to make really long post about people you pity and don’t care about I guess

[DeathsSilkyMist]

People flock to where the best loot is. It's been that way since Live.

I've never said ST is "toxic'. You have me confused with someone else. I really don't care about ST. I don't care about Kingdom. My perspective of anyone playing the game that hardcore within this era of EQ's life cycle is pity. We're not kids anymore.

The old school raiders on Blue were much more savvy at image messaging than this current crop of people on Green. They embraced their hatred of anyone that would challenge them. They weren't afraid of being hated. They relished in it. They didn't play victim and whine or make pathetic excuses in an effort to convince people not to be mad at them. They wanted to be the villain and there is nothing wrong with that. They enjoyed being bad. Servers need a villain. It motivates competition.

Seal Team's problem is they are trying to straddle the fence between trying to be the server's hero and villain. It just hasn't worked. I think waking the sleeper wasn't calculated. It was a compulsive, rushed decision. It was a reaction to a perceived threat that could no longer be ignored. The fact that a vote even had to be taken says a lot. There wasn't even consensus within your own ranks. That builds resentment that may fester over time. We'll see.

When Rampage did it, it was a big middle finger to everyone. It was at the time that took place, a going away present. They took a dump on the entire community and lit it on fire and enjoyed every minute of it. If you're going to do it, that's the way to do it.

What annoys me are the attempts at shaping the narrative with a bunch of political BS in an attempt to gas light people on the forums. I understand why. I get it. It's because Seal Team still has to play here with everyone. You still have to share the same box with an entire server that now hates you for what you did. So how to try and raise your sagging poll numbers?

Let's go over the talking points in this thread alone thus far that are beyond absurd and fooling no one:

Players choosing to trigger an event that has no timer is a timer

Triggering Sleeper is like the devs removing manastone

If you're mad at Seal Team you should be mad at server staff too. They created the server. It's their fault

Be mad at your yourself

We shouldn't focus on choice

Be mad at Kingdom

Not triggering Sleeper denied essence lens or whatever

Kingdom may have cheesed a few keys. It's their fault.

There are so many more I've seen in other threads and the list keeps growing. We've all seen this dog and pony show play out time after time after time after time as guilds compete for bragging rights over loot.

Sifting through the Aftermath (pun intended) my personal take is instead of giving the entire server the middle finger like Rampage did, Seal Team chose to give Kingdom the middle finger and are now trying to shift blame when you should have went all in, guns blazing and embraced your now earned status as server villain.

Trying to pull the wool over people's eyes pretending you're still the heroes is only going to make everyone hate you even more. Why fight it? Just embrace it. You might enjoy being the villain and there is nothing wrong with that.

17474

Hey you actually posted something! Looks like you might be ready to end your trolling phase.

You have gotten a lot of these points wrong, or don't understand them. This is why you aren't making progress in this thread. Either you aren't reading, or you just like making up straw men to try and win arguments. In both cases, you are having problems. The post history is clear, so you can easily go back and read things more clearly if you wished to. As you mentioned earlier you are too lazy to do so, so please refrain from posting falsehoods if you can't be bothered to read.

You have a very strange idea that everybody here who disagrees with you is some kind of secret agent for Seal Team trying to create propaganda or something. People can have their opinions about Sleeper and Seal Team without being a propogandist for Seal Team. I have never claimed Seal Team is a hero, for example, so I am not sure why this is your assumption. I am simply defending their right to play the game as intended. There is no problem with that, and it is not propaganda. However Seal Team wants to craft their image is honestly irrelevant to Sleeper. They could be the best heroes or the worst villains, but awaking Sleeper is still a neutral act.

Now, to your current "understanding" of the thread and topic in general:

1. Players choosing to trigger an event that has no timer is a timer - You don't seem to understand analogies, which is why you are failing to comprehend this point (assuming you aren't trolling). Sleeper is not like regular mobs in the game, which are permanent as long as the server is active. Like Manastone, Sleeper is flagged to be permanently removed. Manastone is flagged as a fixed timer, Sleeper is flagged as a timer by vote. Players vote to keep him Sleeping by not killing him. The analogy is really that simple. There is no reason to try and score points by claiming on a technical level, they didn't program it as a timer. That is irrelevant to the analogy, and not a point I was ever making to begin with. I am not sure why it is difficult to understand both Manastone and Sleeper are designed to be removed on P99.

2. Triggering Sleeper is like the devs removing manastone - Correct. As stated above, both Manastone and Sleeper are intended to be removed from the game at some point. If they weren't, they wouldn't work this way. Unless you are claiming it is a bug of some kind?

3. If you're mad at Seal Team you should be mad at server staff too. They created the server. It's their fault - No one said this. This is your straw man version of my previous points. The point is you can't accuse one party of loot denial without accusing the other party of loot denial. It is logically inconsistent to blame Seal Team and not blame the Staff. However, that is NOT me saying you should be mad at the Staff. Don't be mad at the Staff or Seal Team lol, the game is working as intended. I am showing the logical fallacy of thinking you can blame Seal Team of "loot denial", without realizing Manastone is also removed from the game by the Staff. The Staff is not "spitefully loot denying" players, they are simply removing Manastone to simulate the timeline. Similarly, Seal Team is playing the game as intended by the Staff, and are forwarding the simulated timeline. Even assuming Seal Team had the evilest intentions possible, that has no relevance to the Sleeper mechanic. You cannot spitefully play the game by the rules, as intended by the Staff. It is a neutral act, regardless of intentions. Unless you are claiming the cheated or broke the rules somehow?

4. We shouldn't focus on choice - A poor understanding of what I said, yet again. The point I was making was that most players will choose to wake the Sleeper, so you are using the possibility that he remains Sleeping to try and frame the argument like there is a high probability of keeping the Sleeper sleeping. That is not a great argument, as no data shows keeping the Sleeper sleeping is the more common choice. Just because something has a 1% chance of happening, doesn't mean you should expect it to happen. The Staff could certainly bring back Manastone into the drop table at any time. Nothing is preventing this from happening. But I wouldn't argue the slim possibility of this happening means that it's going to happen, or should happen. Similarly, the arguments about choice falsely assume only Seal Team had the choice to wake the Sleeper. As more guilds/players get keyed, the ability to choose decreases.

5. Be mad at your yourself - Correct. Everybody knew the Sleeper would be awoken on Green. It has been known for years. If you failed to gather any information on the Sleeper, or get your character in a position to get Warder loot, you are the only one to blame. Everquest is a game where there is no second place. Either you get the item or you don't. Knowing about limited time content means you need to get busy and get it, or miss out. Blaming others because you didn't put in the work is just silly.

6. Not triggering Sleeper denied essence lens or whatever - Correct. Loot denial is simply the act of preventing players from getting loot. In the case of Sleeper, you are denying loot in either state. If Sleeper remains Sleeping, players cannot get Essence Lens. If Sleeper is awoken, players cannot get Warder loot. It is really that simple, loot denial is not some complex subject matter, it is binary. Either loot is available or it isn't. Anybody who supports keeping the Sleeper sleeping is supporting denying Essence Lens. The only reason why people don't want to think this way is because they don't want to be the bad guys, so they frame the argument as somehow only waking the Sleeper counts as Loot Denial. It is the same fallacy they use to try and claim Seal Team is somehow denying loot, but removing Manastone is somehow different.

7. Be mad at Kingdom - I haven't made this point, or know the history of Kingdom, so I won't comment further.

8. Kingdom may have cheesed a few keys. It's their fault. - I haven't made this point, or know the history of Kingdom, so I won't comment further.

[Reiwa]

Hey you actually posted something! Looks like you might be ready to end your trolling phase.

You have gotten a lot of these points wrong, or don't understand them. This is why you aren't making progress in this thread. Either you aren't reading, or you just like making up straw men to try and win arguments. In both cases, you are having problems. The post history is clear, so you can easily go back and read things more clearly if you wished to. As you mentioned earlier you are too lazy to do so, so please refrain from posting falsehoods if you can't be bothered to read.

You have a very strange idea that everybody here who disagrees with you is some kind of secret agent for Seal Team trying to create propaganda or something. People can have their opinions about Sleeper and Seal Team without being a propogandist for Seal Team. I have never claimed Seal Team is a hero, for example, so I am not sure why this is your assumption. I am simply defending their right to play the game as intended. There is no problem with that, and it is not propaganda. However Seal Team wants to craft their image is honestly irrelevant to Sleeper. They could be the best heroes or the worst villains, but awaking Sleeper is still a neutral act.

Now, to your current "understanding" of the thread and topic in general:

1. Players choosing to trigger an event that has no timer is a timer - You don't seem to understand analogies, which is why you are failing to comprehend this point (assuming you aren't trolling). Sleeper is not like regular mobs in the game, which are permanent as long as the server is active. Like Manastone, Sleeper is flagged to be permanently removed. Manastone is flagged as a fixed timer, Sleeper is flagged as a timer by vote. Players vote to keep him Sleeping by not killing him. The analogy is really that simple. There is no reason to try and score points by claiming on a technical level, they didn't program it as a timer. That is irrelevant to the analogy, and not a point I was ever making to begin with. I am not sure why it is difficult to understand both Manastone and Sleeper are designed to be removed on P99.

2. Triggering Sleeper is like the devs removing manastone - Correct. As stated above, both Manastone and Sleeper are intended to be removed from the game at some point. If they weren't, they wouldn't work this way. Unless you are claiming it is a bug of some kind?

3. If you're mad at Seal Team you should be mad at server staff too. They created the server. It's their fault - No one said this. This is your straw man version of my previous points. The point is you can't accuse one party of loot denial without accusing the other party of loot denial. It is logically inconsistent to blame Seal Team and not blame the Staff. However, that is NOT me saying you should be mad at the Staff. Don't be mad at the Staff or Seal Team lol, the game is working as intended. I am showing the logical fallacy of thinking you can blame Seal Team of "loot denial", without realizing Manastone is also removed from the game by the Staff. The Staff is not "spitefully loot denying" players, they are simply removing Manastone to simulate the timeline. Similarly, Seal Team is playing the game as intended by the Staff, and are forwarding the simulated timeline. Even assuming Seal Team had the evilest intentions possible, that has no relevance to the Sleeper mechanic. You cannot spitefully play the game by the rules, as intended by the Staff. It is a neutral act, regardless of intentions. Unless you are claiming the cheated or broke the rules somehow?

4. We shouldn't focus on choice - A poor understanding of what I said, yet again. The point I was making was that most players will choose to wake the Sleeper, so you are using the possibility that he remains Sleeping to try and frame the argument like there is a high probability of keeping the Sleeper sleeping. That is not a great argument, as no data shows keeping the Sleeper sleeping is the more common choice. Just because something has a 1% chance of happening, doesn't mean you should expect it to happen. The Staff could certainly bring back Manastone into the drop table at any time. Nothing is preventing this from happening. But I wouldn't argue the slim possibility of this happening means that it's going to happen, or should happen. Similarly, the arguments about choice falsely assume only Seal Team had the choice to wake the Sleeper. As more guilds/players get keyed, the ability to choose decreases.

5. Be mad at your yourself - Correct. Everybody knew the Sleeper would be awoken on Green. It has been known for years. If you failed to gather any information on the Sleeper, or get your character in a position to get Warder loot, you are the only one to blame. Everquest is a game where there is no second place. Either you get the item or you don't. Knowing about limited time content means you need to get busy and get it, or miss out. Blaming others because you didn't put in the work is just silly.

6. Not triggering Sleeper denied essence lens or whatever - Correct. Loot denial is simply the act of preventing players from getting loot. In the case of Sleeper, you are denying loot in either state. If Sleeper remains Sleeping, players cannot get Essence Lens. If Sleeper is awoken, players cannot get Warder loot. It is really that simple, loot denial is not some complex subject matter, it is binary. Either loot is available or it isn't. Anybody who supports keeping the Sleeper sleeping is supporting denying Essence Lens. The only reason why people don't want to think this way is because they don't want to be the bad guys, so they frame the argument as somehow only waking the Sleeper counts as Loot Denial. It is the same fallacy they use to try and claim Seal Team is somehow denying loot, but removing Manastone is somehow different.

7. Be mad at Kingdom - I haven't made this point, or know the history of Kingdom, so I won't comment further.

8. Kingdom may have cheesed a few keys. It's their fault. - I haven't made this point, or know the history of Kingdom, so I won't comment further.

Are you aware of the incongruence between your timer theory and your essence lens malarkey?

Hypocrite. :p

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Are you aware of the incongruence between your timer theory and your essence lens malarkey?

Hypocrite. :p

what is hypocritical or incongruent? Saying big words is meaningless lol. Please explain, or you are just being silly.

[Reiwa]

what is hypocritical or incongruent? Saying big words is meaningless lol. Please explain, or you are just being silly.

Players who didn't want essence lens to be available are now forced to have it be available. Because of Seal Team's choice, not the timeline created by the staff.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Players who didn't want essence lens to be available are now forced to have it be available. Because of Seal Team's choice, not the timeline created by the staff.

And player's who didn't want Warder loot to be available were forced to have it available before Seal Team woke the Sleeper lol. Because of the player's choice to keep him Sleeping. What's your point? It's the same thing, just in the opposite direction. Not sure why this logic is difficult.

[Elizondo]

Hey you actually posted something! Looks like you might be ready to end your trolling phase.

You have gotten a lot of these points wrong, or don't understand them. This is why you aren't making progress in this thread. Either you aren't reading, or you just like making up straw men to try and win arguments. In both cases, you are having problems. The post history is clear, so you can easily go back and read things more clearly if you wished to. As you mentioned earlier you are too lazy to do so, so please refrain from posting falsehoods if you can't be bothered to read.

You have a very strange idea that everybody here who disagrees with you is some kind of secret agent for Seal Team trying to create propaganda or something. People can have their opinions about Sleeper and Seal Team without being a propogandist for Seal Team. I have never claimed Seal Team is a hero, for example, so I am not sure why this is your assumption. I am simply defending their right to play the game as intended. There is no problem with that, and it is not propaganda. However Seal Team wants to craft their image is honestly irrelevant to Sleeper. They could be the best heroes or the worst villains, but awaking Sleeper is still a neutral act.

Now, to your current "understanding" of the thread and topic in general:

1. Players choosing to trigger an event that has no timer is a timer - You don't seem to understand analogies, which is why you are failing to comprehend this point (assuming you aren't trolling). Sleeper is not like regular mobs in the game, which are permanent as long as the server is active. Like Manastone, Sleeper is flagged to be permanently removed. Manastone is flagged as a fixed timer, Sleeper is flagged as a timer by vote. Players vote to keep him Sleeping by not killing him. The analogy is really that simple. There is no reason to try and score points by claiming on a technical level, they didn't program it as a timer. That is irrelevant to the analogy, and not a point I was ever making to begin with. I am not sure why it is difficult to understand both Manastone and Sleeper are designed to be removed on P99.

2. Triggering Sleeper is like the devs removing manastone - Correct. As stated above, both Manastone and Sleeper are intended to be removed from the game at some point. If they weren't, they wouldn't work this way. Unless you are claiming it is a bug of some kind?

3. If you're mad at Seal Team you should be mad at server staff too. They created the server. It's their fault - No one said this. This is your straw man version of my previous points. The point is you can't accuse one party of loot denial without accusing the other party of loot denial. It is logically inconsistent to blame Seal Team and not blame the Staff. However, that is NOT me saying you should be mad at the Staff. Don't be mad at the Staff or Seal Team lol, the game is working as intended. I am showing the logical fallacy of thinking you can blame Seal Team of "loot denial", without realizing Manastone is also removed from the game by the Staff. The Staff is not "spitefully loot denying" players, they are simply removing Manastone to simulate the timeline. Similarly, Seal Team is playing the game as intended by the Staff, and are forwarding the simulated timeline. Even assuming Seal Team had the evilest intentions possible, that has no relevance to the Sleeper mechanic. You cannot spitefully play the game by the rules, as intended by the Staff. It is a neutral act, regardless of intentions. Unless you are claiming the cheated or broke the rules somehow?

4. We shouldn't focus on choice - A poor understanding of what I said, yet again. The point I was making was that most players will choose to wake the Sleeper, so you are using the possibility that he remains Sleeping to try and frame the argument like there is a high probability of keeping the Sleeper sleeping. That is not a great argument, as no data shows keeping the Sleeper sleeping is the more common choice. Just because something has a 1% chance of happening, doesn't mean you should expect it to happen. The Staff could certainly bring back Manastone into the drop table at any time. Nothing is preventing this from happening. But I wouldn't argue the slim possibility of this happening means that it's going to happen, or should happen. Similarly, the arguments about choice falsely assume only Seal Team had the choice to wake the Sleeper. As more guilds/players get keyed, the ability to choose decreases.

5. Be mad at your yourself - Correct. Everybody knew the Sleeper would be awoken on Green. It has been known for years. If you failed to gather any information on the Sleeper, or get your character in a position to get Warder loot, you are the only one to blame. Everquest is a game where there is no second place. Either you get the item or you don't. Knowing about limited time content means you need to get busy and get it, or miss out. Blaming others because you didn't put in the work is just silly.

6. Not triggering Sleeper denied essence lens or whatever - Correct. Loot denial is simply the act of preventing players from getting loot. In the case of Sleeper, you are denying loot in either state. If Sleeper remains Sleeping, players cannot get Essence Lens. If Sleeper is awoken, players cannot get Warder loot. It is really that simple, loot denial is not some complex subject matter, it is binary. Either loot is available or it isn't. Anybody who supports keeping the Sleeper sleeping is supporting denying Essence Lens. The only reason why people don't want to think this way is because they don't want to be the bad guys, so they frame the argument as somehow only waking the Sleeper counts as Loot Denial. It is the same fallacy they use to try and claim Seal Team is somehow denying loot, but removing Manastone is somehow different.

7. Be mad at Kingdom - I haven't made this point, or know the history of Kingdom, so I won't comment further.

8. Kingdom may have cheesed a few keys. It's their fault. - I haven't made this point, or know the history of Kingdom, so I won't comment further.

Sleeper still napping on Red?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Sleeper still napping on Red?

Irrelevant. Its a dead server. You can't get Warder loot on Red anyway, you can't get enough players to fight them lol. Its a very bad argument to say "all the servers people made that nobody plays count toward how many Sleepers remain sleeping". The only servers that matter are the ones that people play.

[Elizondo]

Irrelevant. Its a dead server. You can't get Warder loot on Red anyway, you can't get enough players to fight them lol. Its a very bad argument to say "all the servers people made that nobody plays count toward how many Sleepers remain sleeping". The only servers that matter are the ones that people play.

Is that a yes?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Is that a yes?

I'll leave it up to your imagination lol. Either you are going back to your trolling, or you need to improve your thinking skills. I can't do all your thinking for you:)

Your argument is bad. Even including Red into the statistics (which you wouldn't do because it's dead), the vast majority of Everquest servers that actually matter in the statistics have awoken the Sleeper. You don't count all of the small servers that have 50 people or less, because they can't even kill Warders. They are irrelevant to the discussion, they can't get Warder loot or Essence Lens lol. Their population is the loot denial.

[Reiwa]

And player's who didn't want Warder loot to be available were forced to have it available before Seal Team woke the Sleeper lol. Because of the player's choice to keep him Sleeping. What's your point? It's the same thing, just in the opposite direction. Not sure why this logic is difficult.

Indeed, choice. Good talk. :)

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Indeed, choice. Good talk. :)

What are you trying to say? You don't look witty here lol.

You do know the P99 Staff also have a choice to respawn Sleeper right? There is nothing preventing them from doing this other than their choice.

[Rethalis]

What are you trying to say? You don't look witty here lol.

You do know the P99 Staff also have a choice to respawn Sleeper right? There is nothing preventing them from doing this other than their choice.

you seem really worked up over this whole sleeper thing

[Reiwa]

What are you trying to say? You don't look witty here lol.

You do know the P99 Staff also have a choice to respawn Sleeper right? There is nothing preventing them from doing this other than their choice.

You said it was a timeline now you say it is a choice.

That's all.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You said it was a timeline now you say it is a choice.

That's all.

I really don't understand why you think being extremely petty like this is helping you. I never said it wasn't a choice lol. You can check the post history.

I was using something called an analogy. You might want to look up the definition:) Trying to pretend I said players didn't have a choice is just petty and a poor way to try and score points.

[Reiwa]

I really don't understand why you think being extremely petty like this is helping you. I never said it wasn't a choice lol. You can check the post history.

I was using something called an analogy. You might want to look up the definition:) Trying to pretend I said players didn't have a choice is just petty and a poor way to try and score points.

Why did you tell me I have to be mad at the staff?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Why did you tell me I have to be mad at the staff?

I didn't, you are simply misinterpreting the argument to score points. The post history is clear lol.

[Reiwa]

So I have to be mad at staff or being mad at the players is hypocritical?Yup.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Nice taking quotes out of context to score points lol. Please post the rest.

[Reiwa]

Nice taking quotes out of context to score points lol. Please post the rest.

No, bossy. You do it if you meant something else by "yup".

[DeathsSilkyMist]

No, bossy. You do it if you meant something else by "yup".

Nope. You are making a claim about what I said. Prove it or admit your wrong. You can read my previous posts.

[Reiwa]

Nope. You are making a claim about what I said. Prove it or admit your wrong. You can read my previous posts.

Yup.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yup.

Ok, then your accusations are baseless. Come back when you have an arguement that isn't simply a petty attempt at scoring points when you cant counter the arguments presented.

[Elizondo]

Ok, then your accusations are baseless. Come back when you have an arguement that isn't simply a petty attempt at scoring points when you cant counter the arguments presented.

It depends on what the meaning of 'yup' is

'I did not have forum relations with that poster!'

[DeathsSilkyMist]

It depends on what the meaning of 'yup' is

'I did not have forum relations with that poster!'

If you post the rest of my comments you would see my explaination. But when you do that you disprove your point. So keep dodging lol.