Sleeper being awoken tonight (April 13th)

[Daewyn]

The Sleeper is being awoken tonight, on P99 Green, by Seal Team

This is a post to inform the many people who I imagine want to watch or participate in this event, since it only happens once per server

Seal Team will be in Sleeper's Tomb around 8 or 9pm ET. Waking the Sleeper will take some time, and I'm not sure how long the script itself lasts, but I would suggest being online before 9pm ET if you want to watch or participate. I cannot confirm, but I am hoping Level Up Larry will be streaming the event. You can find his stream here (https://www.twitch.tv/leveluplarry)

Seal Team will also be attempting to kill Kerafyrm himself, and is welcoming all who want to share in that attempt. If you would like to join in that attempt, reach out to a Seal Team member in game and head to Skyshrine. We'll need epic clerics and buffers to help with the corpse cannoning, epic mages to pre corpse epics, and melees who are willing to die repeatedly. There may be other roles to be filled as well.

I fully understand that many people are against the waking of the sleeper. For what it's worth, there has been a ton of discussion on this, and Seal Team (including both leadership and regular members) has been very split. A large poll was taken, and the sentiments were all over the place. For what it's worth, I voted to keep it sleeping, at least for now. However, this is an event I have wanted to participate in for 20 years, and I will not be missing it. I hope you are all able to attend.

Many of you may not be aware, but there was a waking-the-sleeper "scare" a few weeks ago. An anonymous person, in the middle of the night, created a discord channel and invited many keyed members from both in and outside Seal Team. It is unclear who created this discord, or what their intentions were, but many of the people who joined it were ready to wake the sleeper in the middle of the night. While today is not the day that I wanted the sleeper to wake, I would have been devastated had it happened in the middle of the night, without myself or many others being able to witness it. For many Seal Team members, that fear of missing out on this once in a life time event, was the reason why they wanted to schedule it and be a part of it.

I hope you can understand that this is an event many players like myself have looked forward to from the day they created their level 1 characters, regardless of loot, or guild politics, or anything like that.

[adruidarkly]

Why not pick a weekend when more people can participate?

[Daewyn]

To be clear, I have no leadership role in Seal Team. I voted not to wake it, and certainly was not involved in the scheduling of it. I just want to inform people so that they don't miss out

[coki]

Glad you guys were able to screw over the server and delete content once you and your buddies all got it!

[Phraxas]

Glad you guys were able to screw over the server and delete content once you and your buddies all got it!

Don’t forget added content, make sure you’re honest on both sides

[Decapolis95]

Can someone please explain to my newb ass what all of this means?

[Nerfromancer]

A guild is unilaterally triggering a one-time ever major in-game event today that will never be seen again on this server and which removes the possibility of ever obtaining some of the best items in the game for anyone who doesn't already have them.

[Tunabros]

Don’t forget added content, make sure you’re honest on both sides

yeah man

added content is in a form of a quest that makes you turn in your sleeper key

lol

[Daewyn]

Sure Decapolis95, I'll try to sum it all up for you

Sleeper's Tomb is a raid zone in Velious. To enter, you need a key that drops off of raid dragons that take 25-75 people to kill. They drop a maximum of one key at a time, so it takes months to key a full raid force for the Tomb

The final bosses of the tomb are 4 warders. They drop legacy loot (legacy means at some point it won't drop anymore), as well as primal weapons which are a huge boost to raid DPS.

Lorewise, the warders have been tasked with keeping The Sleeper (aka Kerafyrm) asleep. As long as any warder is alive, Kerafyrm will stay asleep. Once you kill the 4th warder, without waiting first for the others to respawn, Kerafyrm will awaken. This only happens once per server. After this point, the warders will never respawn again.

There's a really cool script that then happens where Kerayrm then goes from zone to zone, killing everything in it's path - players and NPCs alike. Lots of cool plotline / lore stuff as well

Kerafyrm was meant to be unkillable. Level 99 and kills everyone in one round

There were just a couple servers back on live that waited to awaken the sleeper. 2 expansions later, in PoP era, at level 65, a guild was finally able to kill it. It took hundreds of people hours to do it. The strategy involved was corpse cannoning - dying, resurrecting, and getting back in there, over, and over, and over. There was actually a lot of interesting drama over this stuff back in the day. For example the first guild that had a shot to kill the sleeper, got it to ~15% HP, and then the GMs manually despawned it, assuming they were using cheats/exploits (they were not).

As for P99 politics, many want the sleeper to stay asleep for ever so that people can keep farming the Warders for loot. There are many different reasons why players in Seal Team want to awaken it (as well as many reasons why some want to keep it asleep)
1) Yes, there are some players, who view p99 green as a competitive server, and want to prevent other guild forces from getting that loot, so they can continue to compete with an advantage
2) There are many like myself who have dreamed of watching this event. I missed it 20 years ago when I played EQ on live, and I've always wanted to see it. I played on a TLP server trying to witness it, but I was on a plane the day they woke it =/
3) Many are afraid that a rogue force will wake it in the middle of the night, and they don't want to miss the once in a server event. Yes, there is definitely a rogue force that does want the sleeper to awaken at any cost
4) Many ST members want it to waken so as a guild they can focus on other targets instead of always prioritizing tomb targets first
5) There has been a ton of drama in the guild, and many want to awaken it so the drama and the bickering ends
6) Some players see the event as the culmination of the purpose of p99 - to relive the progression of classic -> velious
7) Once the sleeper awakes, new content is added. Namely Essence Lens quest items. Some players want the sleeper to awaken so they can work on these quests
8) Many ST members want to keep it asleep to farm loot for themselves and their friends
9) Many ST members want to keep it asleep so that other guilds will have a chance to kill warders and get legacy items before they go away for ever
10) Some ST players are just team players and are happy to do whatever leadership wants, supporting them and their teammates
11) Some ST members believe that Kingdom has been cheating by breaking the engagement rules on Sleeper's Tomb key mobs (namely the 1 minute 97% rule). They see his as an FU to Kingdom (and in the case of some members, an FU to the GMs), for ignoring these rules and others

In reality, Seal Team is a guild of over 100 active members, and we have varying different opinions and goals. I can tell you that even those leading the guild have been incredibly split on the issue. However, the rogue kill force has put it somewhat out of our control, and most of us agree that we would rather do it on our own terms, than to randomly wake up one day and discovering someone woke it overnight

Let me know if you have any questions

It's a really cool event, and I hope you're able to watch it! Either on the stream, or with your own character

[Decapolis95]

Sure Decapolis95, I'll try to sum it all up for you

Sleeper's Tomb is a raid zone in Velious. To enter, you need a key that drops off of raid dragons that take 25-75 people to kill. They drop a maximum of one key at a time, so it takes months to key a full raid force for the Tomb

The final bosses of the tomb are 4 warders. They drop legacy loot (legacy means at some point it won't drop anymore), as well as primal weapons which are a huge boost to raid DPS.

Lorewise, the warders have been tasked with keeping The Sleeper (aka Kerafyrm) asleep. As long as any warder is alive, Kerafyrm will stay asleep. Once you kill the 4th warder, without waiting first for the others to respawn, Kerafyrm will awaken. This only happens once per server. After this point, the warders will never respawn again.

There's a really cool script that then happens where Kerayrm then goes from zone to zone, killing everything in it's path - players and NPCs alike. Lots of cool plotline / lore stuff as well

Kerafyrm was meant to be unkillable. Level 99 and kills everyone in one round

There were just a couple servers back on live that waited to awaken the sleeper. 2 expansions later, in PoP era, at level 65, a guild was finally able to kill it. It took hundreds of people hours to do it. The strategy involved was corpse cannoning - dying, resurrecting, and getting back in there, over, and over, and over. There was actually a lot of interesting drama over this stuff back in the day. For example the first guild that had a shot to kill the sleeper, got it to ~15% HP, and then the GMs manually despawned it, assuming they were using cheats/exploits (they were not).

As for P99 politics, many want the sleeper to stay asleep for ever so that people can keep farming the Warders for loot. There are many different reasons why players in Seal Team want to awaken it (as well as many reasons why some want to keep it asleep)
1) Yes, there are some players, who view p99 green as a competitive server, and want to prevent other guild forces from getting that loot, so they can continue to compete with an advantage
2) There are many like myself who have dreamed of watching this event. I missed it 20 years ago when I played EQ on live, and I've always wanted to see it. I played on a TLP server trying to witness it, but I was on a plane the day they woke it =/
3) Many are afraid that a rogue force will wake it in the middle of the night, and they don't want to miss the once in a server event. Yes, there is definitely a rogue force that does want the sleeper to awaken at any cost
4) Many ST members want it to waken so as a guild they can focus on other targets instead of always prioritizing tomb targets first
5) There has been a ton of drama in the guild, and many want to awaken it so the drama and the bickering ends
6) Some players see the event as the culmination of the purpose of p99 - to relive the progression of classic -> velious
7) Once the sleeper awakes, new content is added. Namely Essence Lens quest items. Some players want the sleeper to awaken so they can work on these quests
8) Many ST members want to keep it asleep to farm loot for themselves and their friends
9) Many ST members want to keep it asleep so that other guilds will have a chance to kill warders and get legacy items before they go away for ever
10) Some ST players are just team players and are happy to do whatever leadership wants, supporting them and their teammates

Let me know if you have any questions

It's a really cool event, and I hope you're able to watch it! Either on the stream, or with your own character

Got it! Thank you very much!

[Daewyn]

Why not pick a weekend when more people can participate?

I've been told that this weekend are Passover and Easter, which would make many players unavailable to attend. There are other conflicts with future weekends as well, and of course the concern that the rogue force would wake it if we wait any longer

[DMN]

so they are gonna piss off a large portion of their own guild, and certainly the majority of the server. For what, really? I really don't give a shit personally but it seems a pretty questionable decision to gain server wide emnity. Fortunes shift in time, guilds are born and invariably die, but your guilides names may forever find themselves on a "list" that the sands of time may not bury.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I am not sure why everyone is so surprised. Sleeper has been awakened on the vast majority of Everquest servers. It's a normal part of the game, and no different from something like phasing out Manastone.

[Psionide]

Lowering the already slim amount of raid content even more on an expansion locked server is just absolutely brilliant!

[Daewyn]

I am not sure why everyone is so surprised. Sleeper has been awakened on the vast majority of Everquest servers. It's a normal part of the game, and no different from something like phasing out Manastone.

Yes, exactly. It's literally part of the story line. The game was designed for this to happen, for players to experience this event

[Elizondo]

Yes, exactly. It's literally part of the story line. The game was designed for this to happen, for players to experience this event

Who actually cares about "the story line" 20+ years later

Seriously

[Domni]

in b4 woke

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Who actually cares about "the story line" 20+ years later

Seriously

Under that logic, who actually cares about a 20+ year old game? Not really sure what you are getting at here. Obviously people still care about the Sleeper 20+ years later.

[Castle2.0]

Bout time. One step closer to Green 2.0 so we can all be smarter and stack even more Manastones :D

Good luck!

[Elizondo]

Under that logic, who actually cares about a 20+ year old game? Not really sure what you are getting at here. Obviously people still care about the Sleeper 20+ years later.

It's obviously about the loot and denying everyone else loot. That's all P99 raiding has ever been. Toxic BS that attracts crazy people.

Claiming it's about the story line is just PR BS

Maybe it will trigger a merge. Who knows.

[Convict]

It's obviously about the loot and denying everyone else loot. That's all P99 raiding has ever been. Toxic BS that attracts crazy people.

Claiming it's about the story line is just PR BS


100%

The sleeper can be woken any time, deciding to do it right now is only happening for 1 reason, and its because a second force has just recently gained enough keys to contest and potentially kill warders and get that exclusive loot.

But by all means spin away

[Daewyn]

If you think the 100+ raiders in Seal Team all see eye to eye on this, and want this to happen for the same reason, you're the one who needs a reality check. There has been A TON of debate on this back and forth for weeks, and what you're talking about hasn't been one of the leading 3 narratives

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Anybody who says it's "loot denying" must then say the Dev's do the same thing with Manastone. I don't see anyone complaining about Manastone. The only difference between Sleeper and Manastone is Sleeper's timer is variable, where Manastone's timer is fixed.

[dareo]

So the warders stayed on blue for what 6 years and for green they are going away already?

[Tunabros]

So the warders stayed on blue for what 6 years and for green they are going away already?

what? sleeper woke up like about half a year into velious on blue

[Ripqozko]

So the warders stayed on blue for what 6 years and for green they are going away already?

nope, they were gone in less then a year, you are just 6 years late to the content, hope that helps. consider yellow.

[Elizondo]

Anybody who says it's "loot denying" must then say the Dev's do the same thing with Manastone. I don't see anyone complaining about Manastone. The only difference between Sleeper and Manastone is Sleeper's timer is variable, where Manastone's timer is fixed.

Players have complete control whether he's awaken or not

Players are the gatekeepers for this specific content

It's the very definition of denying content. I don't see why people are denying it. Once he's dead they will all be gloating about it. They already are.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Players have complete control whether he's awaken or not

Players are the gatekeepers for this specific content

It's the very definition of denying content. I don't see why people are denying it. Once he's dead they will all be gloating about it. They already are.

And the devs are the gatekeepers of Manastone. Who cares who flips the switch? The point is the switch will be flipped, and we all knew it. No different from Manastone.

[Elizondo]

And the devs are the gatekeepers of Manastone. Who cares who flips the switch? The point is the switch will be flipped, and we all knew it. No different from Manastone.

Who gives a shit about a manastone?

Do you always act this childish and stubborn when you're wrong?

[Castle2.0]

Pixel deniers and pixel thirsters, equally pathetic. The two groups belong to be together, miserable, on the same server.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Who gives a shit about a manastone?

Do you always act this childish and stubborn when you're wrong?

Clearly basic logic goes over your head.

Both Sleeper and Manastone are limited time content. If you are fine with Manastone being limited time, you are also fine with Sleeper being limited time. Or are you going to complain that the Dev's are "loot denying" limited time content such as Manastone?

Also, who gives a shit about Warder loot?

Do you always act this childish and stubborn when you're wrong?:)

[Elizondo]

Clearly basic logic goes over your head.

Both Sleeper and Manastone are limited time content. If you are fine with Manastone being limited time, you are also fine with Sleeper being limited time. Or are you going to complain that the Dev's are "loot denying" limited time content such as Manastone?

Also, who gives a shit about Warder loot?

Do you always act this childish and stubborn when you're wrong?:)

Devs remove Sleeper?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Devs remove Sleeper?

No, that isn't what I said. Both Manastone and Sleeper are time limited content. If you are going to accuse players for "loot denial", then you must also accuse dev's for "loot denial". You can't have it both ways. Sleeper is meant to be awoken.

[Elizondo]

No

Ok so then you're wrong

Got it

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Ok so then you're wrong

Got it

You clearly cannot refute my point, so you act like a child. If my logic is so fallible, why must you resort to such a childish attempt to "win" the argument?:)

[Nomadic Plainswalker]

Great job all. That was a fun watch.

[Elizondo]

You clearly cannot refute my point, so you act like a child. If my logic is so fallible, why must you resort to such a childish attempt to "win" the argument?:)

Seriously guy just give it up

You're wrong

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Seriously guy just give it up

You're wrong

Nope, your lack of argument is not an argument. It's just sad. Clearly your just being stubborn at this point.

[DMN]

Well, congrats, i guess. here is to hoping your badge doesn't become a letter.

I'm sure rogan et al are a little relieved they won't (yet) have to deal with the conundrum of merging servers with different sleeper statuses.

[Elizondo]

Nope, your lack of argument is not an argument. It's just sad. Clearly your just being stubborn at this point.

I made my argument like 5 posts ago and you can't refute it

Manastone is dev controlled and it's access is dictated by a timeline. It's a part of the game's history. It was removed because of game mechanics. Not a raid. Players do not control when it drops and when it stops dropping.

Sleeper access is completely controlled by players. Devs will never remove it. Players do.

You're trying to argue apples and oranges

Anyways, it's doesn't matter any more. You're still wrong though.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I made my argument like 5 posts ago and you can't refute it

Manastone is dev controlled and it's access is dictated by a timeline. It's a part of the game's history. It was removed because of game mechanics. Not a raid. Players do not control when it drops and when it stops dropping.

Sleeper access is completely controlled by players. Devs will never remove it. Players do.

You're trying to argue apples and oranges

Anyways, it's doesn't matter any more. You're still wrong though.

I did refute it, and you are refuting it yourself. You claim Manastone is removed because of "game mechanics" and "game history". Sleeper is also a "game mechanic" and "game history". There is no difference, even by your own logic.

Your fixation on who flips the switch is irrelevant. Sleeper is a "game mechanic", and meant to be played. The only difference is when Sleeper is awoken. There is no question he will be at some point, and that was the intent, or "game mechanic".

The only difference between Manastone and Sleeper is Manastone has a fixed timer, where Sleeper has a random timer.

[Elizondo]

I did refute it, and you are refuting it yourself. You claim Manastone is removed because of "game mechanics" and "game history". Sleeper is also a "game mechanic" and "game history". There is no difference, even by your own logic.

Your fixation on who flips the switch is irrelevant. Sleeper is a "game mechanic", and meant to be played. The only difference is when Sleeper is awoken. There is no question he will be at some point, and that was the intent, or "game mechanic".

The only difference between Manastone and Sleeper is Manastone has a fixed timer, where Sleeper has a random timer.

What if all the guilds came to an agreement never to awaken the Sleeper?

Would he be removed?

There is something seriously wrong with your brain

You keep saying 'there is no question' when that's not true. Players dictate if that happens or not. NOT DEVS.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

What if all the guilds came to an agreement never to awaken the Sleeper?

Would he be removed?

There is something seriously wrong with your brain

You're speaking in hypotheticals that basically never happen. The intent of Sleeper was to be played, and data shows he has been awoken on the vast majority of Everquest servers.

Your statement is equivalent to thinking that the developers will get together and decide to let Manastone stay in the loot table permanently. Possible but not probable, and not to be expected.

[Elizondo]

You're speaking in hypotheticals that basically never happen. The intent of Sleeper was to be played, and data shows he has been awoken on the vast majority of Everquest servers.

Your statement is equivalent to thinking that the developers will get together and decide to let Manastone stay in the loot table permanently. Possible but not probable, and not to be expected.

Hold up, you just said 'vast majority' of servers

Not all?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Hold up, you just said 'vast majority' of servers

Not all?

You are really graspng for staws here. Just because something is possible, doesn't mean it is probable. It is possible the P99 devs decide to respawn Sleeper, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Elizondo]

You are really graspng for staws here. Just because something is possible, doesn't mean it is probable. It is possible the P99 devs decide to respawn Sleeper, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

lol you're projecting so bad

This is comical

[DeathsSilkyMist]

lol you're projecting so bad

This is comical

What about my statement was projecting? Spouting random nonsense is not an argument. What I said is the truth, just because something is possible doesn't mean it is probable. The data shows most Everquest servers awaken the sleeper. The chances of players agreeing to never wake the Sleeper has a very low probability of happening. I am not sure why this is so difficult to understand.

[Benanov]

Hold up, you just said 'vast majority' of servers

Not all?

Test Server, iirc, never awoke the Sleeper. The GMs eventually cut the zone over for testing purposes.

RZ awoke it much later in the timeline and managed to kill Kerafyrm, twice.

[Jibartik]

I think the sleeper is a really cool emergent feature that I wish we could lean into on a recycle server like p99

It's not like they could have known we would only play the first 3 expansions, and then quit forever until someone made a recycle server that played the first 3 expansions only and then looped them when they designed the sleeper.

But in that scenario, the sleeper creates this like, 100% player driven nuclear option. And I think it's pretty bad ass if oyu think about it.

Like this is a game all about talking, grouping and forgoing comfort and ease for player interaction.

Here we have a system where the top guilds (goverment) can manage a peaceful and prospersous utopia where everyone gets all the loot.

Or cold and calculated men corrupted by greed and power can use their might to summon a dragon to smote the world into ruin!

It'd be great to just end the server when the sleeper was awoken, and for players to agree to keep it going forever, one day.. at least until the darkness in castle mist Moore finds its way out of that dark pit it was sealed to wreak havok once again...

[Elizondo]

What about my statement was projecting? Spouting random nonsense is not an argument. What I said is the truth, just because something is possible doesn't mean it is probable. The data shows most Everquest servers awaken the sleeper. The chances of players agreeing to never wake the Sleeper has a very low probability of happening. I am not sure why this is so difficult to understand.

'the data shows'

ok mr eq scientist. lol seek sunlight holy *&^% some people are way, way too into this ancient game

human behavior controls whether the sleeper remains on the server. Not the devs. Pure greed is why he was awakened. Nothing more.

You've spent pages now trying to convince people that since devs remove manastone, they shouldn't be pissed that players removed sleeper. That attempt at rhetorical sleight of hand isn't going to work buddy.

It doesn't matter what the probability is. Players have complete control over whether the content remains in the game or not.

I love how guilds at the top are always saying 'we enjoy competition' until they actually get it. Then the inner child comes out when their supremacy is threatened. This is a cycle of insanity on it's 5th generation now over the server's lifetime going back 10+ years

Raid guilds here are basically in a perpetual war for bragging rights. Pixel ego drives them insane.

P99 has always had a core group of toxic raiding crazies. It's never going to change. A certain small % of the player base enjoy screwing over other players. It's just human nature. There is a certain % of the population that are total psychopaths. It's a given that some of them play P99.

Personally I could give a *&^%$ because anyone still raiding that hardcore and getting their jollies denying others loot are totally insane nutbags and if they weren't playing eq they'd be in a mental hospital

[Elizondo]

I think the sleeper is a really cool emergent feature that I wish we could lean into on a recycle server like p99

It's not like they could have known we would only play the first 3 expansions, and then quit forever until someone made a recycle server that played the first 3 expansions only and then looped them when they designed the sleeper.

But in that scenario, the sleeper creates this like, 100% player driven nuclear option. And I think it's pretty bad ass if oyu think about it.

Like this is a game all about talking, grouping and forgoing comfort and ease for player interaction.

Here we have a system where the top guilds (goverment) can manage a peaceful and prospersous utopia where everyone gets all the loot.

Or cold and calculated men corrupted by greed and power can use their might to summon a dragon to smote the world into ruin!

It'd be great to just end the server when the sleeper was awoken, and for players to agree to keep it going forever, one day.. at least until the darkness in castle mist Moore finds its way out of that dark pit it was sealed to wreak havok once again...

I would be totally fine with this

Awakening the sleeper resets the server completely.

[Steven01]

Yeah delete all chars and reset. I will say not happy about the awakening.

Seal Team socks.
Glad I did not join them.
That's just me and opinions do not matter

[ReoDobbs]

"Seal Team will also be attempting to kill Kerafyrm himsel"

Roflmao, the hubris, but hey down to 98% almost there.

[Tunabros]

well no use crying over spilled milk, it does suck that it has happened

but hey, the event was fun even though there was some controversy

I'm glad I got to see the sleeper wake up for the 2nd time

this time i got it recorded!

[Trexller]

yeah fuck seal team, they've been a thorn in the side of the green server since it's launch.

worst name for a guild in history, you'd think a name like Kittens who say meow would remain the worst guild name in EQ history, but alas, bigger douche bags emerged.

so the biggest douche bags around decide to wake the sleeper? oh well. now Phatez can get back to polishing his head.

nothin left to do but go out of my way to grief anyone tagged ST ad infinitum.

you're all getting ported to the farthest point from your request, if you're dumb enough to hit /follow.

[Tunabros]

so the biggest douche bags around decide to wake the sleeper? oh well. now Phatez can get back to polishing his head.


haha I lol'd in real life

[Ivory]

"Seal Team will also be attempting to kill Kerafyrm himsel"

Roflmao, the hubris, but hey down to 98% almost there.

Is too bad, I think the server could have done the impossible and slain Kerafyrm....

But, oh well, maybe in 5 more years we will get another shot at it. No matter which guild wakes it or when, I'll be there if I can to slay it!!!!

Will be the greatest achievement of all of EQ!!! Something never done, everrr.

[Toxigen]

sorry you spent thousands of hours on green to not get warder loot

hope this helps

[Abukii]

Sorry you all can't realize if roles reversed Kingdom would've woken it months ago, copium needed tho I get it. Sorry you don't got warder loot.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

'the data shows'

ok mr eq scientist. lol seek sunlight holy *&^% some people are way, way too into this ancient game


I am not sure why you think I am "way too into this ancient game" or a "eq scientist". A basic google search can tell you which servers have awakened the Sleeper.

https://kotaku.com/the-surprising-and-allegedly-impossible-death-of-everqu-1785741600

From the article: "Waking “the Sleeper” Kerafyrm was a one-time-only event on each server, and Rallos Zek was the last one on which Kerafyrm still slept."

I am not the one who is mad about Sleeper being awoken, you are. Otherwise why would you keep accusing people normally playing the game of "loot denying" when that isn't even the case?


You've spent pages now trying to convince people that since devs remove manastone, they shouldn't be pissed that players removed sleeper. That attempt at rhetorical sleight of hand isn't going to work buddy.


It's not rhetorical sleight of hand. Again, saying random nonsense is not an argument. Sleeper, like Manastone, is a limited time event. There is no reason to be mad that a limited time event is over, limited time events are par for the course in P99.

The rest of your rant just shows that you are mad you didn't get Warder loot. It's fine to be mad, but accusing Seal Team of "loot denial" for just playing the game is super silly.

[MrSparkle001]

Sleeper, like Manastone, is a limited time event. There is no reason to be mad that a limited time event is over, limited time events are par for the course in P99.

It's not a limited time event it's a one time event, and it never has to happen.

Not that I care about waking the Sleeper but you can't compare it to farming Manastones or other content that is guaranteed limited time.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

It's not a limited time event it's a one time event, and it never has to happen.

Not that I care about waking the Sleeper but you can't compare it to farming Manastones or other content that is guaranteed limited time but is technically unlimited up to that time.

Sleeper is a limited time event. Like Manastone, Warder loot is limited to the time Sleeper remains Sleeping. The time is simply variable based on when he gets awoken by players. Just because he has the possibility of never waking up does not change the fact he is a limited time event. Statistically speaking he will be awoken, so it isn't a good idea to have high hopes for him to remain sleeping. The Dev's could also decide to bring back Manastone, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

The only reason why people try to differentiate Sleeper from Manastone is because it is player controlled, so for some reason they think that implies the players who awaken Sleeper are doing it out of spite. If you assume this, then you are also assuming the Dev's are spiting you by removing Manastone. You can't hold one opinion without the other.

You can't blame the players without also blaming the Dev's for Sleeper's awakening. The Dev's want Sleeper to be awoken. If this wasn't the case, they would disable the feature. They want it to happen, they expect it to happen, and statistically it will happen.

[Local]

Sorry you all can't realize if roles reversed Kingdom would've woken it months ago, copium needed tho I get it. Sorry you don't got warder loot.

Ironic copium accusations.

[MrSparkle001]

Sleeper is a limited time event. Like Manastone, Warder loot is limited to the time Sleeper remains Sleeping. The time is simply variable based on when he gets awoken by players. Just because he has the possibility of never waking up does not change the fact he is a limited time event. Statistically speaking he will be awoken, so it isn't a good idea to have high hopes for him to remain sleeping. The Dev's could also decide to bring back Manastone, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

The only reason why people try to differentiate Sleeper from Manastone is because it is player controlled, so for some reason they think that implies the players who awaken Sleeper are doing it out of spite. If you assume this, then you are also assuming the Dev's are spiting you by removing Manastone. You can't hold one opinion without the other.

You can't blame the players without also blaming the Dev's for Sleeper's awakening. The Dev's want Sleeper to be awoken. If this wasn't the case, they would disable the feature. They want it to happen, they expect it to happen, and statistically it will happen.

No, it's differentiated by the fact that the Sleeper is a purely optional one-time event, while content like Manastones have a set time limit according to what the admins want for this server.

I honestly don't care about the Sleeper. That's content I won't see and have no interest in dedicating the time to see. But I know the difference between a one time event like that and limited time content like Manastones.

There's no way to say the devs want the Sleeper to be awoken? Did the devs want people to loot Inte's Sword of Death? Two different situations I know, I just want to see who even knows what that sword is lol.

IMO the whole Sleeper event was a mistake from the very beginning. It's never a good idea for a MMORPG to feature an event that can only happen one time ever and that permanently locks out certain content. I can't name a MMORPG after Everquest that ever did that.

The only way to make content like the Sleeper awakening acceptable in a MMORPG is to also make it reversible. You can awaken it and lock out Warder loot in exchange for essence loot, but also put it back to sleep and lock out essence loot in exchange for warder loot. And neither state is permanent. Maybe should be time-locked like a month or two but never permanent. MMORPGs should by their nature remain static in that way unless an expansion officially alters it. And after Everquest they do remain static, all of the major ones at least as far as I'm aware.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

No, it's differentiated by the fact that the Sleeper is a purely optional one-time event, while content like Manastones have a set time limit according to what the admins want for this server.

I honestly don't care about the Sleeper. That's content I won't see and have no interest in dedicating the time to see. But I know the difference between a one time event like that and limited time content like Manastones.

There's no way to say the devs want the Sleeper to be awoken? Did the devs want people to loot Inte's Sword of Death? Two different situations I know, I just want to see who even knows what that sword is lol.

IMO the whole Sleeper event was a mistake from the very beginning. It's never a good idea for a MMORPG to feature an event that can only happen one time ever and that permanently locks out certain content. I can't name a MMORPG after Everquest that ever did that.

The only way to make content like the Sleeper awakening acceptable in a MMORPG is to also make it reversible. You can awaken it and lock out Warder loot in exchange for essence loot, but also put it back to sleep and lock out essence loot in exchange for warder loot. And neither state is permanent. Maybe should be time-locked like a month or two but never permanent. MMORPGs should by their nature remain static in that way unless an expansion officially alters it. And after Everquest they do remain static, all of the major ones at least as far as I'm aware.

Again, it being optional is irrelevant to whether or not it is a time limited event. You can have a time limited event that has voting to extend the time limit. That is what Sleeper is. A time limited event where players vote to extend his sleep timer by not killing him. It is no different than Manastone other than it's variability. You can farm Warders for however long the Sleeper remains Sleeping, which is the same as Manastone. You can farm Manastone as long as it is on the drop table. It's quite simple, and has the same result.

Yes, the Dev's want Sleeper to be awoken because they had to put him in to P99. He isn't just available by default. That takes time and effort to figure out how he works. They could have easily just not done the work at all and disabled the event, which would have been the easier path. The time and effort they put into adding Sleeper into the game shows the Dev's intent to have him be awoken at some point.

Whether or not Sleeper was a mistake is irrelevant, as the Dev's are trying to re-create Everquest in it's classic form, which is why they included the Sleeper. Also, you can't use the "permanently disabling content" argument, because keeping the Sleeper sleeping is "permanently disabling content" too by preventing players from doing the Essence Lens quest. Content is denied in either case, whether the Sleeper is Sleeping or awoken.

[Tunabros]

hate them or love them

waking up the sleeper is pretty based

[Kilezika]

I may be new here, but I'm not a newbie. Played on Vazaelle for a little over two years, so right around SoV launch until just after LoY. Took me about two years of fairly regular playing to get to see ST, which was only thanks to the revamp that brought back primals.

IIRC, the Sleeper event was bugged on our server. 4th warder dropped, but Kerafyrm didn't embark on his multi zone rampage. Pretty sure the GMs said "Tough shit, we can't reset it." (Can't, or won't? Whatever, pick one.) If I'm not mistaken, Quarken was there, so he'd be able to verify/fill in the details. It would be cool to witness it in all it's glorious carnage. I didn't get to see it back in the day, which I was gonna say was the only world changing event that occured in my time, but I remember that I was there when the Frogloks took over Grubb. Not nearly as epic.

At least there's a stream of this. Thanks for that.

As far as the loot, I figure whatever group of people wants to poopsock their way through the content to be able to trigger that event, they earned it. I sincerely hope it brings them joy and satisfaction to accomplish that. And after all, people do far worse things IRL to stay at the top of the heap.

[MrSparkle001]

Whether or not Sleeper was a mistake is irrelevant, as the Dev's are trying to re-create Everquest in it's classic form, which is why they included the Sleeper. Also, you can't use the "permanently disabling content" argument, because keeping the Sleeper sleeping is "permanently disabling content" too by preventing players from doing the Essence Lens quest. Content is denied in either case, whether the Sleeper is Sleeping or awoken.

I mean the original devs from 20 years ago. It was a mistake back then. It should have been a reversible event if anything. A fight to wake him, a fight to put him back to sleep.

I don't really care though lol.

[cd288]

The only reason why people try to differentiate Sleeper from Manastone is because it is player controlled, so for some reason they think that implies the players who awaken Sleeper are doing it out of spite. If you assume this, then you are also assuming the Dev's are spiting you by removing Manastone. You can't hold one opinion without the other.

No, the devs removed the manastone because it's an imbalanced item that they realized shouldn't drop anymore.

If you're actually trying to argue that ST didn't wake the Sleeper out of spite then I really don't know how your brain works. It's not a coincidence that right when a rival guild starts being able to compete for warders ST suddenly pulls the trigger and wakes the Sleeper. It was quite obviously a spite move so just stop.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

No, the devs removed the manastone because it's an imbalanced item that they realized shouldn't drop anymore.

If you're actually trying to argue that ST didn't wake the Sleeper out of spite then I really don't know how your brain works. It's not a coincidence that right when a rival guild starts being able to compete for warders ST suddenly pulls the trigger and wakes the Sleeper. It was quite obviously a spite move so just stop.

It's not spite, it's playing the game. It is a one time event, so of course if you want to do it first you have to beat the other guilds. If you claim this is spite, then literally every raid mob spawn is killed out of spite. That is nonsensical. This is a non instanced game, where the players who get the mob first get the kill. Killing Sleeper first is no different from racing to KT and getting him before the other guilds. It isn't spite, it is competition.

It doesn't matter why Manastone was removed, because it is now just an annual timed event on all emulated Everquest servers. Same with Sleeper. It isn't like we are going through the Everquest timeline for the first time. Everybody knows exactly what is going to happen.

[DMN]

it's a weird fucking hill to die on, bro.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

it's a weird fucking hill to die on, bro.

I am not dying on it, or expending any effort lol. It's basic logic. I understand people are mad, but just say you are mad you didn't get Warder loot. Trying to blame people for playing the game is just silly and sad.

[DMN]

I am not dying on it, or expending any effort lol. It's basic logic. I understand people are mad, but just say you are mad you didn't get Warder loot. Trying to blame people for playing the game is just silly and sad.

And so the servers that either didn't wake the sleeper, or only woke the sleeper after not a single person on the server even cared about sleepers tomb anymore -- were they not "playing the game" too?

[cd288]

it's a weird fucking hill to die on, bro.

yeah I'm guessing he's a member of ST lol

[DeathsSilkyMist]

yeah I'm guessing he's a member of ST lol

I am not a member of ST, and I don't play on Green. I just find the arguments about Sleeper to be silly. Getting to a mob first is how Everquest works. Limited time events are par for the course on P99 and other progression servers. You are literally complaining for no reason.

And so the servers that either didn't wake the sleeper, or only woke the sleeper after not a single person on the server even cared about sleepers tomb anymore -- were they not "playing the game" too?

The last server to wake Sleeper was Rallos Zek. I am willing to bet it wasn't awoken due to PvP, not an agreement lol. Of course a PvP server is going to deny content.

[cd288]

I am not a member of ST, and I don't play on Green. I just find the arguments about Sleeper to be silly. Getting to a mob first is how Everquest works. Limited time events are par for the course on P99 and other progression servers. You are literally complaining for no reason.



The last server to wake Sleeper was Rallos Zek. I am willing to bet it wasn't awoken due to PvP, not an agreement lol. Of course a PvP server is going to deny content.

I'm not complaining at all. I think it's just absurd to pretend they did it for any other reason other than to spite people out of loot. ST members have literally confirmed as much via their Discord lol

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I'm not complaining at all. I think it's just absurd to pretend they did it for any other reason other than to spite people out of loot. ST members have literally confirmed as much via their Discord lol

Again, if you assume it is spite then you are also saying getting a raid mob first is spite. There is no second place in Everquest. Either you get the mob or you don't. Sleeper isn't any different.

And again, people who want to keep the Sleeper sleeping are denying players Essence Lens, so you're denying content either way.

[DMN]

The last server to wake Sleeper was Rallos Zek. I am willing to bet it wasn't awoken due to PvP, not an agreement lol. Of course a PvP server is going to deny content.

And what of tallon and vallon then? And rallos may indeed have been the last but the more relevant issue is that several servers intentonally avoided waking the sleeper. When they did wake the sleeper, ther did so after no one even cared about the loot in sleepers tomb nymore, and they purely did it in the hopes to be the first server to kill the sleeper, not deny other people access to pixels.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

And what of tallon and vallon then? And rallos may indeed have been the last but the more relevant issue is that several servers intentonally avoided waking the sleeper. When they did wake the sleeper, ther did so after no one even cared about the loot in sleepers tomb nymore, and they purely did it in the hopes to be the first server to kill the sleeper, not deny other people access to pixels.

You still haven't addressed the obvious point that keeping the Sleeper sleeping is also denying people access to pixels. Essence Lens is better than Warder loot for multiple classes. There's no way you can argue "loot denying".

As far as I am aware Sleeper was awoken roughly in Era on the majority of servers, and he was awoken on progression servers like Aradune. People like waking the Sleeper, and it is the more common course of action.

[Robersonroger38]

Sleepers tomb should’ve been pvp, woulda been fun to grief those high end raiders in kunark gear LoL

[DMN]

You still haven't addressed the obvious point that keeping the Sleeper sleeping is also denying people access to pixels. Essence Lens is better than Warder loot for multiple classes. There's no way you can argue "loot denying".

Are you seriously suggesting the people on servers who didn't kill the sleeper until well after the loot there was irrelevant were actually doing so to intentionally deny people essence lens?


As far as I am aware Sleeper was awoken roughly in Era on the majority of servers, and he was awoken on progression servers like Aradune. People like waking the Sleeper, and it is the more common course of action.

There were many servers that did not wake the sleeper early on, most of which did so in the hopes of being the server who would be the first to kill him. Like who gives a shit about being the tenth server to wake the sleeper versus the first server to kill him?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Are you seriously suggesting the people on servers who didn't kill the sleeper until well after the loot there was irrelevant were actually doing so to intentionally deny people essence lens?


No, I am not suggesting that at all. The point is on P99 people know exactly what's going to happen in the timeline. It isn't a mystery. No matter your choice, whether you awake Sleeper or not, you are actively denying pixels. So that argument is silly.


There were many servers that did not wake the sleeper early on, most of which did so in the hopes of being on the server who would first is able to kill him. Who gives a shit bout being the tenth server to wake the sleeper versus the first server to kill him?

I mean, who gives a shit about Warder loot? You can ask a similar question, and it is equally irrelevant.

[Bardp1999]

No, that isn't what I said. Both Manastone and Sleeper are time limited content..

I think the point is the Sleeper doesn't have to be limited-time content if everyone plays together and no one takes the ball home

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I think the point is the Sleeper doesn't have to be limited-time content if everyone plays together and no one takes the ball home

I understand what people are trying to argue. You have summed up their argument correctly.

The problem is that logic is flawed, because the intent of Sleeper is to be awoken. There is a reason Sleeper works differently than all other mobs in the game who are not limited time. If Sleeper was not meant to be awoken, or to despawn Warders, then that wouldn't happen.

The P99 developers put the Sleeper in because they knew the players would probably awaken him. Is it a guarantee? No, but statistically speaking it is the more common course of action, and I do not assume the developers are so stupid that they put it in betting players wouldn't wake the Sleeper. They have been proven correct on both servers so far that players would awaken the Sleeper.

That is why Sleeper is no different from Manastone. It is a safe bet players will pull the switch at some point, and basically no different from implementing a forced timer, other than it's variability. Again, just because something COULD happen, doesn't mean there is a good chance it will happen. Psychology and statistics are not separated from video game design, they are a part of it.

[cd288]

Again, if you assume it is spite then you are also saying getting a raid mob first is spite. There is no second place in Everquest. Either you get the mob or you don't. Sleeper isn't any different.

And again, people who want to keep the Sleeper sleeping are denying players Essence Lens, so you're denying content either way.

I'm not assuming anything that's the point. People in ST have literally said "we did this to spite them" and you're sitting here going "ST didn't do it to spite them!1!1!1!" lmao

[DMN]

No, I am not suggesting that at all. The point is on P99 people know exactly what's going to happen in the timeline. It isn't a mystery. No matter your choice, whether you awake Sleeper or not, you are actively denying pixels. So that argument is silly.

This knowledge is actually just greater indictment of the action, not at all exculpatory. Back in the day people knew in a couple months all the sleepers tomb loot would be rendered obselete -- everyone on p99 knows the opposite


I mean, who gives a shit about Warder loot? You can ask a similar question, and it is equally irrelevant.


apparently a lot of people on p99. I'm not one of them, but im also no ones fool.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

This knowledge is actually just greater indictment of the action, not at all exculpatory. Back in the day people knew in a couple months all the sleepers tomb loot would be rendered obselete -- everyone on p99 knows the opposite


Not really. Nobody wins with the Sleeper. Either he stays Sleeping and Monks/Warriors are happy with Warder Loot, or he's awakened and other classes like Shamans/Druids/Clerics are happy with Essence Lens. Somebodies getting denied their preferred loot no matter what.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I'm not assuming anything that's the point. People in ST have literally said "we did this to spite them" and you're sitting here going "ST didn't do it to spite them!1!1!1!" lmao

When do guilds not talk shit? That is what they do on a weekly basis lol. They are almost certainly trolling people. I guess if you want to say all internet trolling is spiteful, you can. But I think that is an exaggeration.

[Toxigen]

I mean, who gives a shit about Warder loot? You can ask a similar question, and it is equally irrelevant.

The unfortunate hundred (more?) or so people that went super hard on green and didn't get their warder loot.

Sorry they don't got. Hope that helped.

[jadier]

When do guilds not talk shit? That is what they do on a weekly basis lol. They are almost certainly trolling people. I guess if you want to say all internet trolling is spiteful, you can. But I think that is an exaggeration.

So….essence lens isn’t even in the game yet. You’re just totally full of shit. But I guess we’re all just sheep to ninja-loot from anyway.

But yeah, no spite at all. Sure.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

So….essence lens isn’t even in the game yet. You’re just totally full of shit. But I guess we’re all just sheep to ninja-loot from anyway.

But yeah, no spite at all. Sure.

That is irrelevant. We all know Essence Lens is coming. Once two guilds get enough keys to kill Sleeper you can never trust the other guild not to wake the Sleeper and break an agreement. The problem only gets worse as more guilds get keyed up. This is the proper strategy for the Sleeper, that we have all known for many years, just like the strategies for other raid mobs we have been killing for many years.

[Kilezika]

I may be new here, but I'm not a newbie. Played on Vazaelle for a little over two years, so right around SoV launch until just after LoY. Took me about two years of fairly regular playing to get to see ST, which was only thanks to the revamp that brought back primals.

IIRC, the Sleeper event was bugged on our server. 4th warder dropped, but Kerafyrm didn't embark on his multi zone rampage. Pretty sure the GMs said "Tough shit, we can't reset it." (Can't, or won't? Whatever, pick one.) If I'm not mistaken, Quarken was there, so he'd be able to verify/fill in the details. It would be cool to witness it in all it's glorious carnage. I didn't get to see it back in the day, which I was gonna say was the only world changing event that occured in my time, but I remember that I was there when the Frogloks took over Grubb. Not nearly as epic.

At least there's a stream of this. Thanks for that.

As far as the loot, I figure whatever group of people wants to poopsock their way through the content to be able to trigger that event, they earned it. I sincerely hope it brings them joy and satisfaction to accomplish that. And after all, people do far worse things IRL to stay at the top of the heap.

[jadier]

Not really. Nobody wins with the Sleeper. Either he stays Sleeping and Monks/Warriors are happy with Warder Loot, or he's awakened and other classes like Shamans/Druids/Clerics are happy with Essence Lens. Somebodies getting denied their preferred loot no matter what.

I get that the villains need to tell themselves something in order to justify their actions, but this is absurd.

The gap between a SoD or Shroud and the next best thing is huge. Mask of tinkering is fun. But a few extra resists on ring or ear or range slot for a few classes is your rationale?

The sheep ain’t buying it. Frustrating Anarke or Shinko’s not surprising, but when you’ve lost folks like Potatus and Yendor….does it not occur to you that maybe you’re in the wrong?

[MrSparkle001]

This knowledge is actually just greater indictment of the action, not at all exculpatory. Back in the day people knew in a couple months all the sleepers tomb loot would be rendered obselete -- everyone on p99 knows the opposite


That's actually a really good and missed point here, for those that care about this Sleeper drama and the loss of Warder loot. It will never be rendered obsolete here.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I get that the villains need to tell themselves something in order to justify their actions, but this is absurd.

The gap between a SoD or Shroud and the next best thing is huge. Mask of tinkering is fun. But a few extra resists on ring or ear or range slot for a few classes is your rationale?

The sheep ain’t buying it. Frustrating Anarke or Shinko’s not surprising, but when you’ve lost folks like Potatus and Yendor….does it not occur to you that maybe you’re in the wrong?

The problem here is you assume anyone who disagrees with you is evil, a "villan". So of course you will be unable to see reason and logic, you are blinded by your hate for other players. That doesn't make you correct though:)

Who are you to decide what items players want? Essence Lens is BiS for many classes besides Vulak or AoW loot, and realistically speaking 99% of players will never get Vulak Earring/Ring or Aow Ring. SoD, Fungi Robe, and Essence Lens/Earring/Ring are all amazing items, and you can't get all of them at the same time. Someone loses out no matter what.

[TomisFeline]

well what happened? did they kill the sleeper and of yes how?

[coki]

I get that the villains need to tell themselves something in order to justify their actions, but this is absurd.

The gap between a SoD or Shroud and the next best thing is huge. Mask of tinkering is fun. But a few extra resists on ring or ear or range slot for a few classes is your rationale?

The sheep ain’t buying it. Frustrating Anarke or Shinko’s not surprising, but when you’ve lost folks like Potatus and Yendor….does it not occur to you that maybe you’re in the wrong?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

That's actually a really good and missed point here, for those that care about this Sleeper drama and the loss of Warder loot. It will never be rendered obsolete here.

The point is irrelevant because Essence lens will never be rendered obsolete either. Again, someone is losing out on valuable loot no matter which way you slice it.

[jadier]

The problem here is you assume anyone who disagrees with you is evil, a "villan". So of course you will be unable to see reason and logic, you are blinded by your hate for other players. That doesn't make you correct though:)


Naw bro, don’t think folks who disagree with me are villains. But ninja looters who remove raid mobs from a time-locked game out of spite?

Yeah, those folks, your folks, are villains.

[jadier]

Essence Lens is BiS for many classes besides Vulak or AoW loot.

So not BiS. And 100% of future monks and warriors will not get actual bis gear because of your choices. And more importantly, the number of dragons to kill in this dragon killing game is now permanently reduced.

You’ve shrunk the game’s world, made it smaller, made it less.

Because why? Some non-BiS rings? Bullshit.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Naw bro, don’t think folks who disagree with me are villains. But ninja looters who remove raid mobs from a time-locked game out of spite?

Yeah, those folks, your folks, are villains.

You are proving my point here. You're simply mad that you didn't get Warder loot. That is understandable, but don't take it out on Seal Team. They are playing the Sleeper mechanic as intended by the developers.

I see you are conveniently leaving out your own title, which would be "Essence Lens Remover from a time-locked game". How do I know you are not doing that out of spite?

So not BiS.

What else is better than Essence Earring or Essence Ring besides AoW Ring or Vulak Ring/Earring?

[jadier]

You are proving my point here. You're simply mad that you didn't get Warder loot. That is understandable, but don't take it out on Seal Team. They are playing the Sleeper mechanic as intended by the developers.

I see you are conveniently leaving out your own title, which would be "Essence Lens Remover from a time-locked game". How do I know you are not doing that out of spite?



What else is better than Essence Earring or Essence Ring besides AoW Ring or Vulak Ring/Earring?

There are now fewer dragons to kill.

Also, I have no 60 warriors or monks. Doubt Potatus was banking on Warder loot either.

I just dislike pretentious pricks lying about why they reduced a communal game’s world. But again, if it makes you feel better to believe the actual reason people view you and yours as assholes is pixel saltiness, go for it. Villains gotta tell themselves something.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

There are now fewer dragons to kill.

Also, I have no 60 warriors or monks. I just dislike pretentious pricks lying about why they reduced a communal game’s world. But again, if it makes you feel better to believe the actual reason people view you and yours as assholes is pixel saltiness, go for it.

I am not lying at all. You simply cannot disprove my points. Killing Warders does little to shrink the world. You are down 4 bosses (but you can only kill 3 at a time), and you gain a really good new quest that is repeatable. People will still be clearing ST for prismatic scales, primal weapons, and priceless weapons.

You claim you have the moral high ground, and do not have pixel saltiness, but your words do not reflect this. You sound pretty salty to me.

[jadier]

I am not lying at all. You simply cannot disprove my points. Killing Warders does little to shrink the world. You are down 4 bosses (but you can only kill 3 at a time), and you gain a really good new quest that is repeatable. People will still be clearing ST for prismatic scales, primal weapons, and priceless weapons.

You claim you have the moral high ground, and do not have pixel saltiness, but your words do not reflect this. You sound pretty salty to me.

Lol, maybe lie is the wrong word. You may actually be so high on your own supply that you believe this bullshit.

As for prove or disprove, the jury’s the population of p99 Green. We’ve reviewed the evidence and the vote came in. Notice how nobody not steeped in the Seal Team Discord Cinematic Universe is defending your choice to permanently reduce the number of raid mobs and BiS items? Not even FoW.

Hell, not even your whole guild was comfortable unilateral shrinking the game we all love.

Enjoy the infamy. Eventually you’ll all /gquit to hide your shame.

[cd288]

When do guilds not talk shit? That is what they do on a weekly basis lol. They are almost certainly trolling people. I guess if you want to say all internet trolling is spiteful, you can. But I think that is an exaggeration.

Lmao wow this is one of the funniest ways I've seen someone refuse to just accept they're wrong.

You literally have a guild that is saying that they're waking the sleeper because they want to screw their competition out of getting loot (i.e. spite). And you're like no theyre just joking around!!!

It's unreal how you'll just refuse to admit being incorrect here

[Toxigen]

god the salt is so hilarious here

as if anyone thought green would be different than blue

lmao

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Lmao wow this is one of the funniest ways I've seen someone refuse to just accept they're wrong.

You literally have a guild that is saying that they're waking the sleeper because they want to screw their competition out of getting loot (i.e. spite). And you're like no theyre just joking around!!!

It's unreal how you'll just refuse to admit being incorrect here

I've been in the raid scene long enough to know most people are just talking shit most of the time. I've seen top guild forums and been in top guild Discords. Big guilds are generally not as evil as people think. People typically just have thinner skin these days to be frank. It's fine if you disagree with me, but that has been my experience.

But let us assume you are correct for a minute, and Seal Team is really the most evil guild to ever play Everquest. What does their intent have to do with Sleeper? It doesn't change any of my previous points.

You can kill Sleeper without being spiteful, as it is just a game mechanic. So it doesn't really matter if they are being spiteful or not, because the act of killing Sleeper isn't spiteful to begin with. It is just playing the game. If a guild beats another guild to a KT race out of "spite", what difference does it make? The game mechanic works the same if a guild is spiteful or not.

[Gustoo]

I've never heard of one good reason to wake sleeper except to cock block enemies. I don't see how being on a list of bad guys who have damaged a server permanently is a good thing to do.

But I guess it's some kind of bragging right and when you're strangehold is getting hard to maintain why not go ahead and have that final dunk (if you're selfish and stuff)

But maybe I just don't understand.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I've never heard of one good reason to wake sleeper except to cock block enemies. I don't see how being on a list of bad guys who have damaged a server permanently is a good thing to do.

But I guess it's some kind of bragging right and when you're strangehold is getting hard to maintain why not go ahead and have that final dunk (if you're selfish and stuff)

But maybe I just don't understand.

It's a game mechanic and a once in a server experience. That is a lot of fun for some people. Again you can't say killing Sleeper is "Cock Blocking", because content is blocked either way. You get SoD and Fungi Robe, or you get Essence Lens. Somebody is losing out no matter what.

[jadier]

But let us assume you are correct for a minute, and Seal Team is really the most evil guild to ever play Everquest.

Literally no one called you guys most evil. You’re not that special. Individually, many of you are quite nice (although many of those, like Dromo, likely opposed this).

As a group, you’re pricks. Not special pricks, not anything unheard of before in online gaming, EQ, or even just on p99. You’re just regular, run of the mill pricks.

Go ninja loot more and tell yourself you’re just misunderstood. You seem quite adept at motivated reasoning, so I’m sure when you /gquit you’ll convince yourself it was for some good, non-shame based reason.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Literally no one called you guys most evil. You’re not that special. Individually, many of you are quite nice (although many of those, like Dromo, likely opposed this).

As a group, you’re pricks. Not special pricks, not anything unheard of before in online gaming, EQ, or even just on p99. You’re just regular, run of the mill pricks.

Go ninja loot more and tell yourself you’re just misunderstood. You seem quite adept at motivated reasoning, so I’m sure when you /gquit you’ll convince yourself it was for some good, non-shame based reason.

I am not in Seal Team lol, or play on Green. The arguments against waking Sleeper are simply silly.

[Scalem]

sorry no warder loot

[jadier]

I am not in Seal Team lol, or play on Green. The arguments against waking Sleeper are simply silly.

LOL so you’re not just an idiot, you’re an idiot who loves pointless trolling. They did it out of spite, they admitted as much and called the rest of the server sheep compared to them, the wolves. They’re pricks, and you don’t even have the bad excuse of internal delusion to explain why you’re pushing back on the fact that they did it from spite.

Cheers to a new ignore add.

[greenspectre]

Figured this was as good a place as any to post my story and feelings regarding the sleeper waking.

I started Lobnor day 1 of Green with the hope, not expectation, of seeing some legacy content. As a married man with 2 younger kiddos and working overnight I knew my chances were fairly slim. Lobnor was about level 32 in January 2020 when the “married man” part changed, which put me out of the game for a couple months while I got my life in order. By the time I returned to the game in March 2020, COVID had hit and the Guise line was in Endless Mode. I think I made 34 when they got removed.

No problem. I enjoyed leveling up in Calamitous Intent and scoring a Plane of Hate BP before Kunark dropped, messaging my friend “I won EverQuest” at the time. Shortly after Kunark, CI merged into Kingdom and I had a serious decision to make- how serious am I about raiding? I reviewed Kingdom’s policies and attitude and decided to jump in. Since my schedule was random and awful, I could jump on raids on my days off and stock up on DKP to make smaller purchases, which I did (JB BP, Cloak of Piety, Spear of Constriction, PE hammer) and I got to see content I hadn’t previously, like VP.

When velious dropped I didn’t really expect us to be blitzing for keys. And I was not alone in noticing guild leadership was prioritizing KT on quakes, but it made sense, since we were still trying to develop our strategies for Zlandicar, Klandicar, etc. and as far as we knew ST had made their stance on not wanting to wake the sleeper clear, so there wasn’t any pressure really.

As we started prioritizing keys I didn’t expect to get one anytime soon, having somewhere around 15% RA. But when ST announced they’d be waking the sleeper it shut down any hopes I’d had of seeing warders. As a Shaman I wasn’t exactly after their loot but was upset for my guildies who stuck with Kingdom knowing we’d “get there eventually” and had it all shut down on them.

To Seal Team, I have the following to say: Thank you for at least announcing when you’d be doing this. I was at least able to witness the event firsthand and assist in the server protest of killing Yelinak before the Sleeper could get to him. If I wasn’t going to get to experience warders on p99, I at least got to have some kind of hand in the event. Also, if you guys actually wanted to KILL the sleeper, maybe this wasn’t the best way to go about it? It took a 3-guild alliance in POP era to do it on RZ, so if the goal was to give it an ACTUAL go, waiting longer and letting more guilds get in on the Warders for a while so they would feel more at peace with the idea of waking the sleeper would have been a better way to go. To pull off something like that In Velious era would require multi-guild cooperation, which is definitely not earned by pressing the Sleeper button before anybody touches Warder loot.

Anyways this was way too long, but hope it was of interest to somebody. The event itself was a blast I just wish it had come a year later than it did. I did pick up some of prenerf CoS’es and Elder Beads so I at least got SOME legacy content. It’s just tough with a family and this is the last piece of legacy content on the server. I’m sad to see it go.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

LOL so you’re not just an idiot, you’re an idiot who loves pointless trolling. They did it out of spite, they admitted as much and called the rest of the server sheep compared to them, the wolves. They’re pricks, and you don’t even have the bad excuse of internal delusion to explain why you’re pushing back on the fact that they did it from spite.

Cheers to a new ignore add.

I don't mind if I am on your ignore list. You aren't making yourself look good here.

[Old_PVP]

Sorry you all couldn't kill The Sleeper like your better forebears managed to do 20 years ago.

All hail RALLOS ZEK - Best of the Best.

[Ooloo]

Seriously it's depressing to see how mad people are over this. Just because some ST person said they did it out of spite, who cares? They *didnt* do it out of spite for months, it's part of the game, and they earned the right to do it. And it barely changes anything. I wonder what some people play this game for when this is the end of the world to them, yet they accuse the top guild of being spiteful? Even though it was a conflicted decision? Grow up.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Seriously it's depressing to see how mad people are over this. Just because some ST person said they did it out of spite, who cares? They *didnt* do it out of spite for months, it's part of the game, and they earned the right to do it. And it barely changes anything. I wonder what some people play this game for when this is the end of the world to them, yet they accuse the top guild of being spiteful? Even though it was a conflicted decision? Grow up.

Well said!

[Flexin]

Sorry you all couldn't kill The Sleeper like your better forebears managed to do 20 years ago.

All hail RALLOS ZEK - Best of the Best.

He was only killed because mob regeneration was broken that patch, which is why they originally despawned him. It's never been legitimately killed and no one expected it to be.

[Elizondo]

I am not sure why you think I am "way too into this ancient game" or a "eq scientist". A basic google search can tell you which servers have awakened the Sleeper.

https://kotaku.com/the-surprising-and-allegedly-impossible-death-of-everqu-1785741600

From the article: "Waking “the Sleeper” Kerafyrm was a one-time-only event on each server, and Rallos Zek was the last one on which Kerafyrm still slept."

I am not the one who is mad about Sleeper being awoken, you are. Otherwise why would you keep accusing people normally playing the game of "loot denying" when that isn't even the case?



It's not rhetorical sleight of hand. Again, saying random nonsense is not an argument. Sleeper, like Manastone, is a limited time event. There is no reason to be mad that a limited time event is over, limited time events are par for the course in P99.

The rest of your rant just shows that you are mad you didn't get Warder loot. It's fine to be mad, but accusing Seal Team of "loot denial" for just playing the game is super silly.

I could care less that the sleeper was woke you idiot

You're trying to claim sleeper is like manastone being removed by developers. It's a stupid argument that has no basis and i've already pointed out multiple times how they are not remotely the same thing.

Sorry you're butthurt that you were proven wrong

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I could care less that the sleeper was woke you idiot

You're trying to claim sleeper is like manastone being removed by developers. It's a stupid argument that has no basis and i've already pointed out multiple times how they are not remotely the same thing.

Sorry you're butthurt that you were proven wrong

I haven't been proven wrong. You just keep saying I am wrong and thinking that is sufficient lol. So far you have presented nothing to refute my points other than "you're stupid".

[Elizondo]

I haven't been proven wrong.

Yes you have many time over

Cope and Seethe

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yes you have many time over

Cope and Seethe

The only person seething here is yourself:) I am just stating the truth. You haven't disproven anything, and must resort to the childish "I am right and you are wrong" mode of posting to try and save a bit of face.

[cd288]

I've been in the raid scene long enough to know most people are just talking shit most of the time. I've seen top guild forums and been in top guild Discords. Big guilds are generally not as evil as people think. People typically just have thinner skin these days to be frank. It's fine if you disagree with me, but that has been my experience.

But let us assume you are correct for a minute, and Seal Team is really the most evil guild to ever play Everquest. What does their intent have to do with Sleeper? It doesn't change any of my previous points.

You can kill Sleeper without being spiteful, as it is just a game mechanic. So it doesn't really matter if they are being spiteful or not, because the act of killing Sleeper isn't spiteful to begin with. It is just playing the game. If a guild beats another guild to a KT race out of "spite", what difference does it make? The game mechanic works the same if a guild is spiteful or not.

? One of your statements was that seal team wasn’t being spiteful. They were and they fully admitted it. Ergo you were wrong on that point. That’s the point we were discussing. I don’t care about your other random rambling arguments lol

[DeathsSilkyMist]

? One of your statements was that seal team wasn’t being spiteful. They were and they fully admitted it. Ergo you were wrong on that point. That’s the point we were discussing. I don’t care about your other random rambling arguments lol

I am not sure why you care so much about this, as neither of us can actually prove it was due to spite. You do know you can say something without actually meaning it right?:) That is my point, you are making the worst case assumption because you don't like them, not because you have any proof other than random shitposts. And again, why does it matter? How can you spitefully play the game as intended lol? It isn't like they were griefing players via training or something. That could certainly be spiteful, but that isn't the case here. They were literally playing the game as intended, their intentions are irrelevant.

[cd288]

Figured this was as good a place as any to post my story and feelings regarding the sleeper waking.

I started Lobnor day 1 of Green with the hope, not expectation, of seeing some legacy content. As a married man with 2 younger kiddos and working overnight I knew my chances were fairly slim. Lobnor was about level 32 in January 2020 when the “married man” part changed, which put me out of the game for a couple months while I got my life in order. By the time I returned to the game in March 2020, COVID had hit and the Guise line was in Endless Mode. I think I made 34 when they got removed.

No problem. I enjoyed leveling up in Calamitous Intent and scoring a Plane of Hate BP before Kunark dropped, messaging my friend “I won EverQuest” at the time. Shortly after Kunark, CI merged into Kingdom and I had a serious decision to make- how serious am I about raiding? I reviewed Kingdom’s policies and attitude and decided to jump in. Since my schedule was random and awful, I could jump on raids on my days off and stock up on DKP to make smaller purchases, which I did (JB BP, Cloak of Piety, Spear of Constriction, PE hammer) and I got to see content I hadn’t previously, like VP.

When velious dropped I didn’t really expect us to be blitzing for keys. And I was not alone in noticing guild leadership was prioritizing KT on quakes, but it made sense, since we were still trying to develop our strategies for Zlandicar, Klandicar, etc. and as far as we knew ST had made their stance on not wanting to wake the sleeper clear, so there wasn’t any pressure really.

As we started prioritizing keys I didn’t expect to get one anytime soon, having somewhere around 15% RA. But when ST announced they’d be waking the sleeper it shut down any hopes I’d had of seeing warders. As a Shaman I wasn’t exactly after their loot but was upset for my guildies who stuck with Kingdom knowing we’d “get there eventually” and had it all shut down on them.

To Seal Team, I have the following to say: Thank you for at least announcing when you’d be doing this. I was at least able to witness the event firsthand and assist in the server protest of killing Yelinak before the Sleeper could get to him. If I wasn’t going to get to experience warders on p99, I at least got to have some kind of hand in the event. Also, if you guys actually wanted to KILL the sleeper, maybe this wasn’t the best way to go about it? It took a 3-guild alliance in POP era to do it on RZ, so if the goal was to give it an ACTUAL go, waiting longer and letting more guilds get in on the Warders for a while so they would feel more at peace with the idea of waking the sleeper would have been a better way to go. To pull off something like that In Velious era would require multi-guild cooperation, which is definitely not earned by pressing the Sleeper button before anybody touches Warder loot.

Anyways this was way too long, but hope it was of interest to somebody. The event itself was a blast I just wish it had come a year later than it did. I did pick up some of prenerf CoS’es and Elder Beads so I at least got SOME legacy content. It’s just tough with a family and this is the last piece of legacy content on the server. I’m sad to see it go.

Sorry to hear about the wife situation. I think everyone outside of ST and DeathSilky agrees with you. You’re not alone in feeling the way you do

[cd288]

I am not sure why you care so much about this, as neither of us can actually prove it was due to spite. You do know you can say something without actually meaning it right?:) That is my point, you are making the worst case assumption because you don't like them, not because you have any proof other than random shitposts. And again, why does it matter? How can you spitefully play the game as intended lol? It isn't like they were griefing players via training or something. That could certainly be spiteful, but that isn't the case here. They were literally playing the game as intended, their intentions are irrelevant.

Lmao dude you’re literally sitting here defending a guild whose on member leaked their discord of them saying “we need to wake the Sleeper because Kingdom is starting to get keyed”

And you’re like nah it wasn’t out of spite. It literally was lol just stop you lunatic

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I think everyone outside of ST and DeathSilky agrees with you. You’re not alone in feeling the way you do

I am not saying you can't feel bad about missing content. People felt bad about missing out on Manastone, Beads, etc. But blaming other people is silly. Everquest has limited time content, and you know that going in. If you want to play an MMO where you are guaranteed to get all the loot you want, don't play Everquest.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Lmao dude you’re literally sitting here defending a guild whose on member leaked their discord of them saying “we need to wake the Sleeper because Kingdom is starting to get keyed”

And you’re like nah it wasn’t out of spite. It literally was lol just stop you lunatic

Yes, that is the strategy big guilds employ for Sleeper. It isn't a secret. This strategy has been known for years before Sleeper was awoken on Green lol. Once multiple guilds have enough Keyed members, there is no way to guarantee one of the guilds will simply break the agreement and awaken Sleeper. That is why the top guild acts and awakens the Sleeper so they can experience it instead of another guild. How is this different from racing to KT and getting it before another guild? There is no second place in Everquest.

[Elizondo]

The only person seething here is yourself:) I am just stating the truth. You haven't disproven anything, and must resort to the childish "I am right and you are wrong" mode of posting to try and save a bit of face.

lol

I AM right

You ARE wrong

yes, it's that simple. You're just crazy and pig headed.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

lol

I AM right

You ARE wrong

yes, it's that simple. You're just crazy and pig headed.

It isn't that simple, and you haven't been proven right. You can keep saying this nonsense, but it doesn't make you correct, or sound smart.

[Elizondo]

It isn't that simple, and you haven't been proven right. You can keep saying this nonsense, but it doesn't make you correct, or sound smart.

Yes it's that simple and I'm right

You are just a stupid thick headed lunatic

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yes it's that simple and I'm right

You are just a stupid thick headed lunatic

More nonsense. It's funny because you claim I am a thick headed lunatic, and yet you are the one simply posting insults because you are mad. Might want to do some self reflection:)

[Elizondo]

More nonsense. It's funny because you claim I am a thick headed lunatic, and yet you are the one simply posting insults because you are mad. Might want to do some self reflection:)

I'm not the one claiming devs removing manastone because of a fixed time line is the same thing as players waking sleeper

I'm not the one claiming sleeper wasn't awakened because of spite when the guild in question admitted it

Sorry you are wrong and can't handle it

Better luck next time

[cd288]

Yes, that is the strategy big guilds employ for Sleeper. It isn't a secret. This strategy has been known for years before Sleeper was awoken on Green lol. Once multiple guilds have enough Keyed members, there is no way to guarantee one of the guilds will simply break the agreement and awaken Sleeper. That is why the top guild acts and awakens the Sleeper so they can experience it instead of another guild. How is this different from racing to KT and getting it before another guild? There is no second place in Everquest.

Lmao this dude is so sad. Imagine being so unwilling to admit you’re wrong over some random crap on a forum for an emulated server of a 23 year old game. Jeez dude lol

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I'm not the one claiming devs removing manastone because of a fixed time line is the same thing as players waking sleeper

I'm not the one claiming sleeper wasn't awakened because of spite when the guild in question admitted it

Sorry you are wrong and can't handle it

Better luck next time

1. Limited time events are the same, regardless of who pulls the trigger to end them. You must remember it is the Dev's who allow players to pull the trigger on Sleeper, which means the Dev's are culpable in Sleeper's awakening. I am honestly curious, what is your definition of limited time event? It clearly isn't the normal definition, so I am not sure why this is confusing.

2. Shit posting does not prove intent, and honestly intent is irrelevant in this scenario anyway. Seal Team played the game within the rules, as intended. You can't spitefully play the game normally lol. I would love to see you give an example of someone spitefully camping a mob, under the rules of the server.

3. Saying someone is wrong without proof means nothing.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Lmao this dude is so sad. Imagine being so unwilling to admit you’re wrong over some random crap on a forum for an emulated server of a 23 year old game. Jeez dude lol

I will happily admit I am wrong if you bring something conclusive to the table. So far you have been successfully trolled by random shit posters in Seal Team, and you are claiming that playing the game as intended is somehow spiteful. I would love to see someone spitefully playing by the rules, I honestly don't know what that would look like.

[Elizondo]

1. Limited time events are the same, regardless of who pulls the trigger to end them. You must remember it is the Dev's who allow players to pull the trigger on Sleeper, which means the Dev's are culpable in Sleeper's awakening. I am honestly curious, what is your definition of limited time event? It clearly isn't the normal definition, so I am not sure why this is confusing.

2. Shit posting does not prove intent, and honestly intent is irrelevant in this scenario anyway. Seal Team played the game within the rules, as intended. You can't spitefully play the game normally lol. I would love to see you give an example of someone spitefully camping a mob, under the rules of the server.

3. Saying someone is wrong without proof means nothing.

rofl seek help

[Steven01]

Okay so yeah Seal Team sucks for that. So yes I am butt hurt about it, but that is the point. I won't rez that tag now if I ever get the chance to say no. That is okay. Was it fair yes. Is it fair I don't rez one yes. My point is doing that earns you the poop tag. Once someone list all the players that did it I'll be satisfied and won't help any if given opportunity, and that is okay. They can make an alt and ask for help so I don't know they where there. I'm allowed to do that .. and it is enjoyable :D grats ST.. still like the game

The game is designed to have legacy.. and player controlled legacy earns you the poop tag.. as it should.. if a ST member gets mad you don't rez or port them.. tell them we'll you shouldn't have woken sleeper. That is okay I don't justify the ST Member nor the player Denying the port or rez..

Will say no matter what yes its fair they got it.. but will say it is Def a way of saying I don't care about the rest of the server.. well at least part of it.. because no one is saying hurry up and wake him.... just don't be mad at them just the Tag.. it holds no merit anymore .. dissolve ST join other guilds you have done the biggest dumb in the living room floor and we see it..

[fortior]

What is the alternative to not waking the Sleeper? Do players really want to farm pixels for an eternity and risk P99 Green ending/merging without that once in a lifetime event happening?

Anyone who was against waking the Sleeper is suffering from pixel sickness. Let it go lol.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

rofl seek help

Yet again, unable to come up with anything substantive. You aren't doing a good job of disproving my points.

What is the alternative to not waking the Sleeper? Do players really want to farm pixels for an eternity and risk P99 Green ending/merging without that once in a lifetime event happening?

Anyone who was against waking the Sleeper is suffering from pixel sickness. Let it go lol.

Agreed.

[Local]

Who even is this DeathsSilkyMist bootlicker defending his bootlicking for pages on end in this thread, apparently with no skin in the game?

Give it a rest, guy. Boots can't taste that good.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Who even is this DeathsSilkyMist bootlicker defending his bootlicking for pages on end in this thread, apparently with no skin in the game?

Give it a rest, guy. Boots can't taste that good.

I am not boot licking at all. I know nobody in Seal Team, and I haven't complimented them once. I just find the arguments silly.

Just admit you are sad you didn't get legacy loot. Complaining about a normal game mechanic that is intended to be played is just silly. Seal Team played the game normally, as intended by the developers. That doesn't make them villains. If they are villains, then you are also claiming the developers are villains for removing Manastone. And I don't see anybody doing that:)

[Skarne]

The reason people see them as the villains is for the reasoning and manner in which the sleeper was awakened.

Technically the sleeper could stay sleeping indefinitely if the server decided to play it that way.

That's the reason people are lashing out- it's due to the leaked messages and ST's reason for waking the thing up.

It's subjective in it's nature and isn't necessarily "meant" to be triggered. It's up to the players.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The reason people see them as the villains is for the reasoning and manner in which the sleeper was awakened.

Technically the sleeper could stay sleeping indefinitely if the server decided to play it that way.

That's the reason people are lashing out- it's due to the leaked messages and ST's reason for waking the thing up.

It's subjective in it's nature and isn't necessarily "meant" to be triggered. It's up to the players.

And thats the flaw in peoples logic. Sleeper had to be recreated by the P99 devs. That is a lot of time and effort to create something for the players to experience. Because the P99 devs did that, they want it to happen. If they didn't, they would have just not done the work, which is way easier. So if you blame Seal Team, you blame the Devs too. It is really that simple.

[Skarne]

No not really. That's your opinion. The Devs were trying to re-create classic EQ...the sleeper is in classic EQ. To pretend to know their intentions is sort of silly. For all we know, they are hoping the server would rotate the warders for as long as possible. You can't speak to the dev's intentions for both p99, or the original EQ dev team.

I don't play on green either so I have no skin in the game. This is something I disagree with you on. The manastone is completely different than waking the sleeper. It's apples and oranges as another person said.

I do enjoy your posts and appreciate your opinions, however on this specific topic I can see nobody will change your mind. Just like most issues it's pointless to argue so GL.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

No not really. That's your opinion. The Devs were trying to re-create classic EQ...the sleeper is in classic EQ. To pretend to know their intentions is sort of silly. For all we know, they are hoping the server would rotate the warders for as long as possible. You can't speak to the dev's intentions for both p99, or the original EQ dev team.

I don't play on green either so I have no skin in the game. This is something I disagree with you on. The manastone is completely different than waking the sleeper. It's apples and oranges as another person said.

I do enjoy your posts and appreciate your opinions, however on this specific topic I can see nobody will change your mind. Just like most issues it's pointless to argue so GL.

Thanks for the good luck, and I appreciate the civil discussion as always from you!

I don't think the "your opinion" argument is very good to be frank. I could just throw it back at you and we would be back to square one.

I have never claimed to know with 100% certainty what the P99 Dev's are thinking. I am not them. However, you can take an educated guess, and use facts to come up with the more likely scenario. In this case, re-creating the Sleeper is enough to be pretty confident in the assertion the P99 Dev's want the Sleeper mechanic to be triggered. It would be way easier to just not do it, and justify it. There are plenty of non-classic things in P99 already.

Claiming the opposite, that the P99 Dev's don't want Sleeper to be awoken, has literally zero evidence so far. I would love to see some if people have it. I also do not believe they would want rotations, as they have had plenty of opportunities to do so, and generally stay away from them. We do know that wasn't their intention either.

Again, I am not sure why people are struggling with the concept of time limited events. Most monsters/loot are not time limited, they have no mechanic to stop their spawning after a condition. Manastone and Sleeper do have this mechanic. The mechanic in itself is the same, the only difference is how long the timer goes for. With the case of Manastone it is a fixed number, which Sleeper it is a voting system that expends the time every day the players do not kill him. It's really not that complex or interesting.

[Goldknyght]

I am not boot licking at all. I know nobody in Seal Team, and I haven't complimented them once. I just find the arguments silly.

Just admit you are sad you didn't get legacy loot. Complaining about a normal game mechanic that is intended to be played is just silly. Seal Team played the game normally, as intended by the developers. That doesn't make them villains. If they are villains, then you are also claiming the developers are villains for removing Manastone. And I don't see anybody doing that:)

Just admit you dont understand what locked in classic means. The developers intended for more content to be added making this event irrelevant. And you and this bloody manastone. The devs didnt intend for the manastone to be OP. They didnt understand what they had made, but didnt want to punish the playerbase who had em and patched it out. Hence you cant use it outside of classic zones.

[arc]

"rogue kill force" LMAO please

do you dumbfucks hear yourselves?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Just admit you dont understand what locked in classic means. The developers intended for more content to be added making this event irrelevant. And you and this bloody manastone. The devs didnt intend for the manastone to be OP. They didnt understand what they had made, but didnt want to punish the playerbase who had em and patched it out. Hence you cant use it outside of classic zones.

You are mixing up a bunch of things. The original developers of Everquest and the P99 developers are two different groups of people. I am talking about the P99 developers. The P99 developers (and the community) already knew about Manastone and the nerf when P99 was created, so the original developer's intentions for nerfing Manastone are irrelevant.

What is relevant is what the P99 developers do with Manastone. Do they just keep it out of the game? Do they make it permanent? Do they make it a timed event to simulate the nerf? They chose the option of making it a timed event. But to pretend it is the same thing as an organic nerf during live is just silly. Since we already know what's going to happen (it isn't organic), Manastone and all other legacy content simply become timed events created by the P99 developers to simulate the timeline.

[Goldknyght]

You are mixing up a bunch of things. The original developers of Everquest and the P99 developers are two different groups of people. I am talking about the P99 developers. The P99 developers (and the community) already knew about Manastone and the nerf when P99 was created, so the original developer's intentions for nerfing Manastone are irrelevant.

What is relevant is what the P99 developers do with Manastone. Do they just keep it out of the game? Do they make it permanent? Do they make it a timed event to simulate the nerf? They chose the option of making it a timed event. But to pretend it is the same thing as an organic nerf during live is just silly. Since we already know what's going to happen (it isn't organic), Manastone and all other legacy content simply become timed events created by the P99 developers to simulate the timeline.

Ok does the manastone take a raid force to get????????? is the manastone gated behind months of people getting keys??????????? and no the p99 devs didnt make it a timed event. they kept the project true to form and wanted to patch it out when the patch, patches it out.

Luclin isnt being release, Planes of power isnt being release, Legacy of Ykesha isnt being released, Lost dungeons of Norrath isnt being released, Gates of discord isnt being released, Omens of War isnt being released, Dragons of Norrath isnt being released, Depth of Darkhollow isnt being released, Prophecy of Ro isnt being released, The serpents spine isnt being released, The buried sea isnt being released, The Secrets of Faydwer isnt being released, The Seeds of Destruction isnt being released, Underfoot isnt being released, House of thule isnt being released, Veil of Alaris isnt being released, rain of Fear isnt being released, Call of the Forsaken isnt being released, the Darkend Sea isnt being released, The broken Mirror isnt being released, Empires of Kunark isnt being released, Ring of Scale isnt being released, The burning Lands isnt being released, Torment of Velious isnt being released, Claws of Veeshan isnt being released, Terror of Luclin isnt being released. Which makes the event and content irrelevant.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Ok does the manastone take a raid force to get????????? is the manastone gated behind months of people getting keys??????????? and no the p99 devs didnt make it a timed event. they kept the project true to form and wanted to patch it out when the patch, patches it out.

Luclin isnt being release, Planes of power isnt being release, Legacy of Ykesha isnt being released, Lost dungeons of Norrath isnt being released, Gates of discord isnt being released, Omens of War isnt being released, Dragons of Norrath isnt being released, Depth of Darkhollow isnt being released, Prophecy of Ro isnt being released, The serpents spine isnt being released, The buried sea isnt being released, The Secrets of Faydwer isnt being released, The Seeds of Destruction isnt being released, Underfoot isnt being released, House of thule isnt being released, Veil of Alaris isnt being released, rain of Fear isnt being released, Call of the Forsaken isnt being released, the Darkend Sea isnt being released, The broken Mirror isnt being released, Empires of Kunark isnt being released, Ring of Scale isnt being released, The burning Lands isnt being released, Torment of Velious isnt being released, Claws of Veeshan isnt being released, Terror of Luclin isnt being released. Which makes the event and content irrelevant.

You are making some strange assumption P99 is the same as Everquest during the live timeline. P99 is an emulated server created by a separate group of people than the people who created Everquest. They can do whatever they want with the P99 server, and they already know what happens in the timeline circa 1999-2002. I am not sure why you think Manastone isn't a timed event. That is literally how the P99 developers would program it. They don't need to quickly come together and decide what to do with Manastone, and patch it in as a hotfix. They just set a timer and have it automatically happen lol.

[Goldknyght]

You are making some strange assumption P99 is the same as Everquest during the live timeline. P99 is an emulated server created by a separate group of people than the people who created Everquest. They can do whatever they want with the P99 server, and they already know what happens in the timeline circa 1999-2002. I am not sure why you think Manastone isn't a timed event. That is literally how the P99 developers would program it. They don't need to quickly come together and decide what to do with Manastone, and patch it in as a hotfix. They just set a timer and have it automatically happen lol.

Its only a timed event because everyone knows day its being patched out. Key word everyone. Everyone doesnt know the day the community wants to do sleeper. If green server lasted till end of time, no one knows when the sleeper is going to be awoken. Only neckbeards who decide to be D***s do. So no your manastone argument is irrelevant to this event.

[fortior]

Imagine being such a sad loser that you get worked up about this lol. P99 Green is meant to be cyclical, of course the Sleeper is going to wake up. And why does it even matter? 99% of people angry about it were never going to get warder loot anyway.

[Elizondo]

13 pages ago

Do you always act this childish and stubborn when you're wrong?

lol

[Goldknyght]

Imagine being such a sad loser that you get worked up about this lol. P99 Green is meant to be cyclical, of course the Sleeper is going to wake up. And why does it even matter? 99% of people angry about it were never going to get warder loot anyway.

no 99% of people angry can no longer get the warder loot now anyways. By the very essence of this project being locked in velious means everyone at some point will be able to get warder loot. This is the most ignorant argument against the people angry about the situation.

[Goldknyght]

13 pages ago



lol

lol thanks for the page note. Yeah he is lol

[fortior]

no 99% of people angry can no longer get the warder loot now anyways. By the very essence of this project being locked in velious means everyone at some point will be able to get warder loot. This is the most ignorant argument against the people angry about the situation.

Lol. So your ideal version of P99 is perma-velious and all warders dutifully respawning so you can eventually get pixels (you wouldn't get them, though). You're pathetic. Holy shit, you are pixel sick. Seek help.

[Elizondo]

Lol. So your ideal version of P99 is perma-velious and all warders dutifully respawning so you can eventually get pixels (you wouldn't get them, though). You're pathetic. Holy shit, you are pixel sick. Seek help.

Quick question

Do devs remove these pixels or players

Thanks

[fortior]

*Super rare and hype EQ1 classic event happens*

Normal people: wow cool this owns and is gonna happen at most once every 5 years or so, glad to experience this core part of the classic EQ experience

Pixel-sick losers: noooo! my shroud! my primals! my loot!!!

[arc]

It's not spite, it's playing the game.

w/e helps you sleep at night i guess

[Goldknyght]

Lol. So your ideal version of P99 is perma-velious and all warders dutifully respawning so you can eventually get pixels (you wouldn't get them, though). You're pathetic. Holy shit, you are pixel sick. Seek help.

so your ideal version of p99 isnt perma-velious? am i missing something about the project of p99? is it not perma-velious? Holy bleep, your pathetic attempt to not understand the project is hilarious. so when is luclin dropping? dont worry ill wait.

[arc]

also realtalk there is a reason MMOs aren't designed like this anymore

and we're currently experiencing it

neat little case study tbh

[fortior]

so your ideal version of p99 isnt perma-velious? am i missing something about the project of p99? is it not perma-velious? Holy bleep, your pathetic attempt to not understand the project is hilarious. so when is luclin dropping? dont worry ill wait.

My ideal version of p99 is a cyclical server which goes through the timeline again and again, letting everyone enjoy the true EQ1 classic experience, and alleviating pixel sickness by implementing a less persistent world. Less and less people will be obsessed with BiS/plat when the new green is X years away, and it seems that's exactly the type of mental push you subhumans need to detox from pixels.

[arc]

When do guilds not talk shit? That is what they do on a weekly basis lol. They are almost certainly trolling people. I guess if you want to say all internet trolling is spiteful, you can. But I think that is an exaggeration.

"oh it was just locker room talk when I said I'd tongue your wife's asshole for lunch"

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Its only a timed event because everyone knows day its being patched out. Key word everyone. Everyone doesnt know the day the community wants to do sleeper. If green server lasted till end of time, no one knows when the sleeper is going to be awoken. Only neckbeards who decide to be D***s do. So no your manastone argument is irrelevant to this event.

The only difference between Manastone and Sleeper is Sleeper is a timer by vote. Basically a random timer since we don't know when it will happen. Would you be been mad at the devs if they made Sleeper waking a random timer? It would literally be the same thing.

[Toxigen]

sorry you spent thousands of hours on green and didn't get warder loot

hope this helps

[Elizondo]

The only difference between Manastone and Sleeper is Sleeper is a timer by vote. Basically a random timer since we don't know when it will happen. Would you be been mad at the devs if they made Sleeper waking a random timer? It would literally be the same thing.

Total word salad

If it's random there is no timer

It's pure choice

[Goldknyght]

The only difference between Manastone and Sleeper is Sleeper is a timer by vote. Basically a random timer since we don't know when it will happen. Would you be been mad at the devs if they made Sleeper waking a random timer? It would literally be the same thing.

No it wouldnt be as it would be the devs and not d***s. This is a Troll move. when the devs took out the manastone, it wasnt the devs trolling the entire playerbase and in this case the server. it was an item they deemed to OP and patched it. This event doesnt get a patch. this is an event that ends the velious timeline and moves the game into luclin. This server is never going into luclin.

[arc]

also lol for someone who "doesn't play on green" you sure do have alot of info about all of this

[DeathsSilkyMist]

No it wouldnt be as it would be the devs and not d***s. This is a Troll move. when the devs took out the manastone, it wasnt the devs trolling the entire playerbase and in this case the server. it was an item they deemed to OP and patched it. This event doesnt get a patch. this is an event that ends the velious timeline and moves the game into luclin. This server is never going into luclin.

Yup, here it is. You just don't like Seal Team. You don't care whether or not Sleeper is awoken, you just don't like the guild who did it. And you are trying to mask this distain behind a poorly constructed argument, because you know people wouldn't listen to you if you just spouted more Seal Team hate.

[fortior]

Can't wait to tab away and do something fun while these retarded nerds stay mad about losing out on the opportunity to sock pixels. 17 page thread. lol

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Total word salad

If it's random there is no timer

It's pure choice

You clearly don't know what a timer is lol. A timer that can be extended by vote is still a timer. You can also have a timer with a randomly generated time.

[Goldknyght]

My ideal version of p99 is a cyclical server which goes through the timeline again and again, letting everyone enjoy the true EQ1 classic experience, and alleviating pixel sickness by implementing a less persistent world. Less and less people will be obsessed with BiS/plat when the new green is X years away, and it seems that's exactly the type of mental push you subhumans need to detox from pixels.

its not even about BiS/plat. Its about not doing something that is a D*** move, and that majority of the raiding community on the server are against. And with no one knowing how long this project is going to go, you cant expect a new server to be released. And be ok with this happening. So now until the end of this project this server has a key part of the content GONE. your arguments are hollow, and i know this because you resort to insults instead of just sticking to your points. but keep shilling, its hilarious.

[Scalem]

I could care less that the sleeper was woke you idiot

You're trying to claim sleeper is like manastone being removed by developers. It's a stupid argument that has no basis and i've already pointed out multiple times how they are not remotely the same thing.

Sorry you're butthurt that you were proven wrong

If you could care less maybe you should then.

[fortior]

its not even about BiS/plat. Its about not doing something that is a D*** move, and that majority of the raiding community on the server are against. And with no one knowing how long this project is going to go, you cant expect a new server to be released. And be ok with this happening. So now until the end of this project this server has a key part of the content GONE. your arguments are hollow, and i know this because you resort to insults instead of just sticking to your points. but keep shilling, its hilarious.

you truly have nothing else going on in your life and my brother in Christ, it is a real sad sight

[Elizondo]

You clearly don't know what a timer is lol. A timer that can be extended by vote is still a timer. You can also have a timer with a randomly generated time.

It's pure choice my dude

You're just being stubborn and childish

If you could care less maybe you should then.

Still don't care about the pixels

Hope that helps

[Erati]

You could have a server where Manastone is timely removed per patch dates and Warders remain intact due to the servers environment,rules,player agreements etc.

The fact this is a possibility means the two entities are not tied to the same fate.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

It's pure choice my dude

You're just being stubborn and childish

Not really. Statistics say otherwise. People are much more likely to wake the Sleeper than not. Otherwise he would still be asleep on most of the live servers, the progression servers, and Blue. People like waking the Sleeper, the data shows it. Anybody who predicted he wouldn't be awoken is just doing wishful thinking.

You really don't understand the concept that as more people get keyed, the chance of Sleeper being awoken increases for every key. Why? Because you can't control people with simple agreements in a game lol. Once there are 5 guilds on the server who can kill Sleeper, he could be awoken at any time, even by accident.

[Elizondo]

You could have a server where Manastone is timely removed per patch dates and Warders remain intact due to the servers environment,rules,player agreements etc.

The fact this is a possibility means the two entities are not tied to the same fate.

If everyone on the server decided to not wake the sleeper the content would never be removed

Why is this concept beyond some people? A 5 year could grasp it.

[Goldknyght]

Yup, here it is. You just don't like Seal Team. You don't care whether or not Sleeper is awoken, you just don't like the guild who did it. And you are trying to mask this distain behind a poorly constructed argument, because you know people wouldn't listen to you if you just spouted more Seal Team hate.

LoL ST is irrelevant, and are only mention because they were the D***s who did this. You could insert any guild into that spot had some other guild did this. So try again.
Your arguments have been poorly constructed this entire time because u want to compare this event to an item that was patched out because it was broken. But keep shilling its hilarious.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

If everyone on the server decided to not wake the sleeper the content would never be removed

Why is this concept beyond some people? A 5 year could grasp it.

Not really. Statistics say otherwise. People are much more likely to wake the Sleeper than not. Otherwise he would still be asleep on most of the live servers, the progression servers, and Blue. People like waking the Sleeper, the data shows it. Anybody who predicted he wouldn't be awoken is just doing wishful thinking.

You really don't understand the concept that as more people get keyed, the chance of Sleeper being awoken increases for every key. Why? Because you can't control people with simple agreements in a game lol. Once there are 5 guilds on the server who can kill Sleeper, he could be awoken at any time, even by accident.

[Elizondo]

Not really. Statistics say otherwise. People are much more likely to wake the Sleeper than not. Otherwise he would still be asleep on most of the live servers, the progression servers, and Blue. People like waking the Sleeper, the data shows it. Anybody who predicted he wouldn't be awoken is just doing wishful thinking.

You really don't understand the concept that as more people get keyed, the chance of Sleeper being awoken increases for every key. Why? Because you can't control people with simple agreements in a game lol. Once there are 5 guilds on the server who can kill Sleeper, he could be awoken at any time, even by accident.

Yes really

Players control access to this content. Choice will always remain.

You are simply wrong and being pig headed

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yes really

Players control access to this content. Choice will always remain.

You are simply wrong and being pig headed

So accidents can never happen? Lol. You do realize a guild could kill the last Warder not knowing the mechanic right?

[Elizondo]

So accidents can never happen? Lol. You do realize a guild could kill the last Warder not knowing the mechanic right?

Really? You're getting desperate my man

Here, I'll toss you an olive branch. Show me it states Sleeper Awakens. Take all the time you need.

https://wiki.project1999.com/EverQuest_Timeline#Official_Project_1999_Timeline

[DeathsSilkyMist]

LoL ST is irrelevant, and are only mention because they were the D***s who did this. You could insert any guild into that spot had some other guild did this. So try again.
Your arguments have been poorly constructed this entire time because u want to compare this event to an item that was patched out because it was broken. But keep shilling its hilarious.

Your logic doesn't make sense. If anybody who denies you content is a dick, then you would say the developers are dicks. You can't have it both ways lol. Clearly you care who awoke the Sleeper, as that is the only thing you are differentiating in your logic.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Really? You're getting desperate my man

Here, I'll toss you an olive branch. Show me it states Sleeper Awakens. Take all the time you need.

https://wiki.project1999.com/EverQuest_Timeline#Official_Project_1999_Timeline

I am not desperate at all. I am simply showing you the truth. I know I won't change your mind lol, this is for other people who are reading. Clearly you are either trolling or just don't want to have an actual conversation.

[Goldknyght]

Not really. Statistics say otherwise. People are much more likely to wake the Sleeper than not. Otherwise he would still be asleep on most of the live servers, the progression servers, and Blue. People like waking the Sleeper, the data shows it. Anybody who predicted he wouldn't be awoken is just doing wishful thinking.

You really don't understand the concept that as more people get keyed, the chance of Sleeper being awoken increases for every key. Why? Because you can't control people with simple agreements in a game lol. Once there are 5 guilds on the server who can kill Sleeper, he could be awoken at any time, even by accident.

NO statistics dont back your statement as there is only one blue server and one green server. And if people on the forums correct the sleeper is still sleep on the red server. Trying to bring in the live servers is the most ignorant argument as every live server will have content that will make this event irrelevant.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

NO statistics dont back your statement as there is only one blue server and one green server. And if people on the forums correct the sleeper is still sleep on the red server. Trying to bring in the live servers is the most ignorant argument as every live server will have content that will make this event irrelevant.

You do realize all of the live server woke the sleeper too right? P99 is not the only Everquest server there is. Red is a dead server, so it honestly doesn't matter about Sleeper's status. Nobody plays.

[Toxigen]

ST won green.

Sorry you didn't. Hope that helped.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The live servers do matter, because it shows players like waking Sleeper. If people didn't like it they wouldn't wake him. I am not sure why that is a difficult concept.

[Elizondo]

I am not desperate at all. I am simply showing you the truth. I know I won't change your mind lol, this is for other people who are reading. Clearly you are either trolling or just don't want to have an actual conversation.

Still waiting

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Still waiting

I know you are. You aren't here to have a conversation, you are just trolling or are ignorant. Either way you have lost the argument many pages ago lol. I will totally have a proper conversation with you again if you can actually say something of substance.

[Goldknyght]

The live servers do matter, because it shows players like waking Sleeper. If people didn't like it they wouldn't wake him. I am not sure why that is a difficult concept.

The live servers make this content irrelevant. I am not sure why that concept is difficult for you to understand. try again.

[Elizondo]

I know you are. You aren't here to have a conversation, you are just trolling or are ignorant. Either way you have lost the argument many pages ago lol. I will totally have a proper conversation with you again if you can actually say something of substance.

Still waiting

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The live servers make this content irrelevant. I am not sure why that concept is difficult for you to understand. try again.

That point is irrelevant, that is what you don't understand. People wouldn't have ever woken the Sleeper if it was a bad mechanic that people hated, regardless of the era or the current content. There is obviously something fun about waking Sleeper, which is why people still do it to this day, whether it is on P99 or the progression servers.

Still waiting

I know you are. You aren't here to have a conversation, you are just trolling or are ignorant. Either way you have lost the argument many pages ago lol. I will totally have a proper conversation with you again if you can actually say something of substance.

[Goldknyght]

I know you are. You aren't here to have a conversation, you are just trolling or are ignorant. Either way you have lost the argument many pages ago lol. I will totally have a proper conversation with you again if you can actually say something of substance.

Ironic your asking for someone to provide substance in an argument that you have yet to provide. try again

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Ironic your asking for someone to provide substance in an argument that you have yet to provide. try again

I have provided substance. Just because you proclaim it isn't substantive doesn't make it so. You can look up the definition of timers, and the statistics on which servers woke the sleeper lol. I have the facts and data behind me. You have your opinion and distain for Seal Team.

[Goldknyght]

That point is irrelevant, that is what you don't understand. People wouldn't have ever woken the Sleeper if it was a bad mechanic that people hated, regardless of the era or the current content. There is obviously something fun about waking Sleeper, which is why people still do it to this day, whether it is on P99 or the progression servers.



I know you are. You aren't here to have a conversation, you are just trolling or are ignorant. Either way you have lost the argument many pages ago lol. I will totally have a proper conversation with you again if you can actually say something of substance.

The only one trolling is you because your entire argument revolves around the manastone and live servers that make the content irrelevant because newer content was added making the event an event. P99 doesnt get this. its stuck in this timeline and this event ends the timeline. This is what you dont understand.

[fortior]

I hope the next time the first group to enter ST just wakes the sleeper right away

[Elizondo]

I know you are. You aren't here to have a conversation, you are just trolling or are ignorant. Either way you have lost the argument many pages ago lol. I will totally have a proper conversation with you again if you can actually say something of substance.

Why can't you just show me where it is within the official time line?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The only one trolling is you because your entire argument revolves around the manastone and live servers that make the content irrelevant because newer content was added making the event an event. P99 doesnt get this. its stuck in this timeline and this event ends the timeline. This is what you dont understand.

Again, you are getting confused. The fact that P99 is a static timeline is why Manastone and Sleeper are simply timers lol. It's because P99 isn't evolving dynamically, it is simply activating content at specified times. That is a timer. Sleeper is also a timer by vote. Players know if they wake the Sleeper it is a one time event. So every day they vote to keep him Sleeping, or wake him. Yes, they could extend this timer to the end of the server, but that isn't a guarantee, and statistically speaking the less likely choice. It is obvious players like waking the Sleeper, which is why the keep doing it lol, even on progression servers like Aradune.

Why can't you just show me where it is within the official time line?

Because you are just trolling. There is nothing of substance in your question. Either you really don't understand basic concepts like timers, or you are just being stubborn. Either way you aren't making yourself look smart lol.

[Elizondo]

Because you are just trolling. There is nothing of substance in your question. Either you really don't understand basic concepts like timers, or you are just being stubborn. Either way you aren't making yourself look smart lol.

Either it's there or it isn't

You're the one that's trolling

Hope that helps

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Either it's there or it isn't

You're the one that's trolling

Hope that helps

Framing the argument nonsensically and then proclaiming you are right is not a proper argument, it just makes you look like an idiot:)

[Elizondo]

Framing the argument nonsensically and then proclaiming you are right is not a proper argument, it just makes you look like an idiot:)

You're just projecting my man

It's nonsensical to compare wakening the Sleeper to Manastone removal

(D)eaths(S)ilky(M)ist Criteria got issues

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You're just projecting my man

It's nonsensical to compare wakening the Sleeper to Manastone removal

(D)eaths(S)ilky(Mist) Criteria got issues

It's perfectly sensible if you have read the definition of a timer. Either you haven't, or you want to keep this going for some silly reason.

[Elizondo]

It's perfectly sensible if you have read the definition of a timer. Either you haven't, or you want to keep this going for some silly reason.

No it isn't

You're being silly

Sleeper is not on a fixed timeline. It's obviously not on the official P99 time line because devs do not control that destiny. Devs do not determine when that content is removed. Players do.

Look, if you want to say Gratz to the people that took him down. Great. Round of applause. Hope it was fun for everyone involved. /clap

My only issue has been your stupid comparison because it's stupid. You're probably one of those guys that endlessly debates shaman race

I asked you to provide simple data. Easily accessed and obtained to prove your argument. I even gave you the link. You failed because your 'argument' is flawed at it's core.

Hope that helps

[Goldknyght]

[QUOTE=DeathsSilkyMist[/QUOTE]


you wanna die on the hill, go for it. Waking the sleeper is a D*** move period. Its a D*** move everytime some guild does it on live servers and here on p99 its no different. But the main difference here vs there is this server is locked in this era, which makes it even more of a D*** move. Nothing is going to be able to replace the content that is now lost. but you keep trolling and dying on your ignorant stance.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

No it isn't

You're being silly

Sleeper is not on a fixed timeline. It's obviously not on the official P99 time line because devs do not control that destiny. Devs do not determine when that content is removed. Players do.

Look, if you want to say Gratz to the people that took him down. Great. Round of applause. Hope it was fun for everyone involved. /clap

My only issue has been your stupid comparison because it's stupid. You're probably one of those guys that endlessly debates shaman race

I asked you to provide simple data. Easily accessed and obtained to prove your argument. I even gave you the link. You failed because your 'argument' is flawed at it's core.

Hope that helps

I do have simple data. Look up the definition of a timer. Look at how many servers have awoken the Sleeper. I'll make it really simple. I will give you an example of two timers.

1. Timer to remove Manastone: 40 days, starting at Midnight. Timer will end 40 days from now at Midnight.

2. Timer to remove Sleeper: 1080 days (time of server merge), starting at Midnight. Timer will end 1080 days from now at Midnight. Players can choose to end the timer at any time via vote.

No difference, other than duration and ability to vote. The problem is you are angry at Seal Team. If you thought removing items/monsters was a dick move regardless of who did it, you would be angry at the developers for removing Manastone. It is the same thing, a group of people decide to take your pixels away. The end result is the same, who cares which group of people did it? Whether it was out of spite or out of charity doesn't change anything.

And as I keep saying, people obviously like to wake the Sleeper, or they wouldn't keep doing it. The statistics for servers waking sleeper proves this. You have no data to suggest keeping Sleeper sleeping is the more common course of action, even in current times, since progression servers are waking the Sleeper too.

[Elizondo]

I do have simple data. Look up the definition of a timer. Look at how many servers have awoken the Sleeper. I'll make it really simple. I will give you an example of two timers.

2. Timer to remove Sleeper: 1080 days (time of server merge), starting at Midnight. Timer will end 1080 days from now at Midnight. Players can choose to end the timer at any time via vote.

That's not a removal. That's the end of the server. Your argument is like saying Sleeper was removed on Teal. What if Sleeper was never woke on Blue? Oh right, he'd still be up after the merge.

The amount of pretzel logic you are twisting yourself into is unbelievable. Definitely comedy gold nonetheless.

No difference, other than duration and ability to vote. The problem is you are angry at Seal Team. If you thought removing items/monsters was a dick move regardless of who did it, you would be angry at the developers for removing Manastone. It is the same thing, a group of people decide to take your pixels away. The end result is the same, who cares which group of people did it? Whether it was out of spite or out of charity doesn't change anything.

Don't care about ST. Could care less about the pixels and thanks for conceding my point that players specifically control access to this content. We're finally getting somewhere.

And as I keep saying, people obviously like to wake the Sleeper, or they wouldn't keep doing it. The statistics for servers waking sleeper proves this. You have no data to suggest keeping Sleeper sleeping is the more common course of action, even in current times, since progression servers are waking the Sleeper too.

People like waking Sleeper. Great. Golf Clap.

Still not the same thing as removing manastone.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

That's not a removal. That's the end of the server. Your argument is like saying Sleeper was removed on Teal.

The amount of pretzel logic you are twisting yourself into is unbelievable. Definitely comedy gold nonetheless.



Don't care about ST. Could care less about the pixels and thanks for conceding my point that players specifically control access to this content. We're finally getting somewhere.



People like waking Sleeper. Great. Golf Clap.

Still not the same thing as removing manastone.

Look, you can deny what a timer is, but that doesn't change it lol. I could modify the example if you want, but it's the same thing. What you are failing to grasp is Sleeper is specifically marked to be removed, it is simply player controlled. Most other mobs/items don't have that distinction. You are making the false assumption everything on the server is on an individual timer, which is server end. That is faulty, as no other mobs are marked to be removed like Sleeper. Same with Manastone, that is marked to be removed, whereas most other items are not.

Lol I never said it isn't player controlled, so I didn't concede anything. Not sure where you saw me say it isn't player controlled. What I said was P99 developers put in Sleeper specifically, so they are culpable in the waking of it too. If the P99 developers thought Sleeper shouldn't be awoken, they wouldn't have put him in. They could have easily made an excuse too that people wouldn't be able to counter, such as the Titanium Client wouldn't support it or something to that degree.

[Goldknyght]

I do have simple data. Look up the definition of a timer. Look at how many servers have awoken the Sleeper. I'll make it really simple. I will give you an example of two timers.

1. Timer to remove Manastone: 40 days, starting at Midnight. Timer will end 40 days from now at Midnight.

2. Timer to remove Sleeper: 1080 days (time of server merge), starting at Midnight. Timer will end 1080 days from now at Midnight. Players can choose to end the timer at any time via vote.

No difference, other than duration and ability to vote. The problem is you are angry at Seal Team. If you thought removing items/monsters was a dick move regardless of who did it, you would be angry at the developers for removing Manastone. It is the same thing, a group of people decide to take your pixels away. The end result is the same, who cares which group of people did it? Whether it was out of spite or out of charity doesn't change anything.

And as I keep saying, people obviously like to wake the Sleeper, or they wouldn't keep doing it. The statistics for servers waking sleeper proves this. You have no data to suggest keeping Sleeper sleeping is the more common course of action, even in current times, since progression servers are waking the Sleeper too.

and the statistics of saying its a d*** move also exists. No one likes the guild on every server that does this. Why? because its a D*** move. Go check live server forums. ST just was keeping to form and don't care about what the community thinks of them and want to live in infamy as the guild that started a never ending S*** show for the green server. we all accept what ST did and can still say its a D*** move. One fact doesn't nullify another.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

and the statistics of saying its a d*** move also exists. No one likes the guild on every server that does this. Why? because its a D*** move. Go check live server forums. ST just was keeping to form and don't care about what the community thinks of them and want to live in infamy as the guild that started a never ending S*** show for the green server. we all accept what ST did and can still say its a D*** move. One fact doesn't nullify another.

Again, the problem here is you are saying "if the Dev's do it, it's fine, if players do it, it isn't". That is the faulty logic. The party who removes the content is irrelevant. The result is the same.

If your stance is to be angry at any party that takes away your content, you certainly have the right to your opinion. But be consistent and get angry at the Dev's for removing Manastone too. I wouldn't be arguing with you if you could at least be consistent.

My problem is you aren't being consistent with your opinion, which clearly shows you don't truly believe that anybody who takes away pixels is a dick. You have a specific problem with Seal Team of some kind, and you are trying to mask it behind a faulty argument.

[Elizondo]

Look, you can deny what a timer is, but that doesn't change it lol. I could modify the example if you want, but it's the same thing. What you are failing to grasp is Sleeper is specifically marked to be removed, it is simply player controlled. Most other mobs/items don't have that distinction. You are making the false assumption everything on the server is on an individual timer, which is server end. That is faulty, as no other mobs are marked to be removed like Sleeper. Same with Manastone, that is marked to be removed, whereas most other items are not.

Lol I never said it isn't player controlled, so I didn't concede anything. Not sure where you saw me say it isn't player controlled. What I said was P99 developers put in Sleeper specifically, so they are culpable in the waking of it too. If the P99 developers thought Sleeper shouldn't be awoken, they wouldn't have put him in. They could have easily made an excuse too that people wouldn't be able to counter, such as the Titanium Client wouldn't support it or something to that degree.

lol you just keep digging a hole of logical fallacies

There is no timer for Sleeper. Period. End of discussion. End of debate.

If p99 had a server that was never going to be merged, taken down and zero players, he would be up forever regrdless if you believe it was 'meant' to be taken down or not, because like you've conceded, it is completely player controlled UNLIKE manastone.

Sometimes water is simply wet. Accept it.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

lol you just keep digging a hole of logical fallacies

There is no timer for Sleeper. Period. End of discussion. End of debate.

If p99 had a server that was never going to be merged, taken down and zero players, he would be up forever regrdless if you believe it was 'meant' to be taken down or not, because like you've conceded, it is completely player controlled UNLIKE manastone.

Sometimes water is simply wet. Accept it.

Again, you fail to grasp how timers and statistics work.

Who controls the content removal is irrelevant. It is still designed to be removed. If it wasn't designed to be removed, Warders would work like all other raid bosses. Don't get angry at the players for playing the game, get angry at the developers for creating limited time content.

[Elizondo]

Again, you fail to grasp how timers and statistics work.

Who controls the content removal is irrelevant. It is still designed to be removed. If it wasn't designed to be removed, Warders would work like all other raid bosses. Don't get angry at the players for playing the game, get angry at the developers for creating limited time content.

You're the one that keeps claiming Sleeper is like Manastone

Was Manastone designed to be removed?

[eqravenprince]

Not a fan of loot that goes away. Either have it exist forever or not at all in my opinion. A fresh server that remains static would be fair to all. I do think there is a very small percentage of players that like that competition over others. PvEvP if you will. I don't think they are douchebags for waking sleeper. People like what they like. Maybe eventually I will get what I like out of a server here. Oh well, that's my two coppers, flame on.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You're the one that keeps claiming Sleeper is like Manastone

Was Manastone designed to be removed?

Yes, it was specifically designed to be removed on P99. P99 is not the original Everquest timeline, where balance changes are happening organically. It is simply wrong to assume Manastone is working the same way as it did during live, where every time P99 spins up a new server the P99 developers are looking at Manastone and determining if it has balance issues. Manastone will always be scripted to be removed at a specific time on P99.

[Skarne]

My biggest concern about this conversation is the definition of the word "timer". See below:

Timer
1.
an automatic mechanism for activating a device at a preset time.

The Manastone is on a timer for removal...there is no disputing that. It's set and has been since the devs figured out the classic timeline.


The sleeper, however, is on a player determined trigger. It's not a timer, it's a trigger set by the devs for activation. Who activates the trigger? The players. In a perfect world once a server agreed to allow the sleeper to keep sleeping, it could be sleeping for the life of the server.

This doesn't mean that will happen, and more often than not, some guild will go against server wishes and trigger the event because it's fun to be the "best guild".

Having said that and after reading this forum thread I do believe the sleeper was indeed meant to be awakened. It would've happened eventually whether it was ST or Kingdom or whoever. The issue seems to be the manner in which the sleeper was triggered.

I recommend moving on because there's nothing anyone can do at this point, and those who didn't get to experience the sleeper's tomb on green can put forth the work and get there on the next server's life cycle.

[Elizondo]

Yes, it was specifically designed to be removed on P99. P99 is not the original Everquest timeline, where balance changes are happening organically. It is simply wrong to assume Manastone is working the same way as it did during live, where every time P99 spins up a new server the P99 developers are looking at Manastone and determining if it has balance issues. Manastone will always be scripted to be removed at a specific time on P99.

P99 Devs did not design manastone. Brad did not design manastone with P99 devs in mind. Seriously, why do you keep digging?

Again, was manastone designed to be removed?

[Elizondo]

Having said that and after reading this forum thread I do believe the sleeper was indeed meant to be awakened. It would've happened eventually whether it was ST or Kingdom or whoever. The issue seems to be the manner in which the sleeper was triggered.

I have no problem with this

Intent is fine. My only issue is comparing it to manastone which is retarded and stupid because it's not even remotely the same thing.

[Skarne]

I have no problem with this

Intent is fine. My only issue is comparing it to manastone which is retarded and stupid because it's not even remotely the same thing.

Agreed

[DeathsSilkyMist]

P99 Devs did not design manastone. Brad did not design manastone with P99 devs in mind. Seriously, why do you keep digging?

Again, was manastone designed to be removed?

This is nonsensical. I am not claiming the P99 dev's created Manastone from a game design perspective. You don't understand how video game emulators work if this isn't a troll. This conversation is going to be hard to continue if you are really starting from zero knowledge of video game creation and video game emulators.

P99 had to create custom code and rebuild the Everquest database to get the game working. P99 is part original Everquest code (in the case of the client), and part custom code/data (in the case of the database and server code).

The P99 Dev's could decide whether or not to put in Manastone. It isn't like they were forced to, they can do whatever they want. They could make P99 a completely custom server that has no resemblance to the original Everquest if they wanted. They decided to put Manastone in and have it be removed at a specific time, to simulate it getting nerfed.

On P99 Manastone is specifically designed to be removed, it is not organically removed due to balance issues being discovered that no one expected. People have known Manastone was overpowered for 20 years now lol.

[eqravenprince]

I have no problem with this

Intent is fine. My only issue is comparing it to manastone which is retarded and stupid because it's not even remotely the same thing.

Can no longer get manastone, can no longer get warder loot. Seems similar enough to me. I think there is a very small percentage of people that actually like that they got those items and no one can ever get them again. DSM makes a good point that changes happened organically back in the day. Since we aren't going past Velious, we are left with people with an unfair advantage forever. But maybe that's what the devs wanted and intended.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Can no longer get manastone, can no longer get warder loot. Seems similar enough to me. I think there is a very small percentage of people that actually like that they got those items and no one can ever get them again. DSM makes a good point that changes happened organically back in the day. Since we aren't going past Velious, we are left with people with an unfair advantage forever. But maybe that's what the devs wanted and intended.

Exactly. The P99 developers purposely created the code to remove Manastone, and to have Sleeper permanently despawn the Warders. It isn't like the P99 developers were stuck with the code and are forced down this path. They chose to put it in, and therefore it is their intent for it to work like this. The P99 developers could easily make Manastone a permanent drop table item, or keep Warders spawning if they wanted to.

[Jibartik]

its a shame sleeper flying around didn't also auto flag everyone for PVP so it'd be like full blown norrathian apocalypses with people eating each other in the panic.

https://i.imgur.com/hb4CYSx.png

[Skarne]

Back when velious was live I always pictured the sleeper rampaging from ST to Rivervale and everywhere in between. I was disappointed to read that was never the case.

[Elizondo]

This is nonsensical. I am not claiming the P99 dev's created Manastone from a game design perspective. You don't understand how video game emulators work if this isn't a troll. This conversation is going to be hard to continue if you are really starting from zero knowledge of video game creation and video game emulators.

Why can't you just admit Sleeper isn't the same thing as Manastone? lol

They are not the same thing. Just accept it.

If you want to say they intended the event to be triggered. Great. No disagreement. Intent is one thing. Action is another. Players are still in control. Players can all agree not to trigger the event. Choice. It was left in the players hands to do with what they will.

If there was a specific date in Live History where Devs and Gms triggered this event, you'd be right. P99 Devs would follow that history. Alas ... it's not so.

Choice is what separates the two. It's that simple. No long drawn out posts from you are necessary. You want to drag this out because you can't admit your original comparison was wrong.

P99 had to create custom code and rebuild the Everquest database to get the game working. P99 is part original Everquest code (in the case of the client), and part custom code/data (in the case of the database and server code).

The P99 Dev's could decide whether or not to put in Manastone. It isn't like they were forced to, they can do whatever they want. They could make P99 a completely custom server that has no resemblance to the original Everquest if they wanted. They decided to put Manastone in and have it be removed at a specific time, to simulate it getting nerfed.

It's called "Project 1999" for a reason. It's not called "Project Whatever" or "Project Pick And Choose"

On P99 Manastone is specifically designed to be removed, it is not organically removed due to balance issues being discovered that no one expected. People have known Manastone was overpowered for 20 years now lol.

Manastone on P99 is made available to mimic Everquest Live History. Manastone was not designed by the ya know, the people that actually designed it, to be removed. It was removed because of obvious imbalance issues that were not seen at it's original conception. If the P99 devs were concerned about it's imbalance they would never have allowed it on the server to begin with.

They are strictly following history however. Alas ..

Can no longer get manastone, can no longer get warder loot. Seems similar enough to me.

Devs remove manastone as part of an official time line. They are merely following the same foot steps of the original development team.

Players either leave sleeper up or trigger the event

Not similar. Nice try though.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Why can't you just admit Sleeper isn't the same thing as Manastone? lol

They are not the same thing. Just accept it.

If you want to say they intended the event to be triggered. Great. No disagreement. Intent is one thing. Action is another. Players are still in control. Players can all agree not to trigger the event. Choice. It was left in the players hands to do with what they will.

If there was a specific date in Live History where Devs and Gms triggered this event, you'd be right. P99 Devs would follow that history. Alas ... it's not so.

Choice is what separates the two. It's that simple. No long drawn out posts from you are necessary. You want to drag this out because you can't admit your original comparison was wrong.



It's called "Project 1999" for a reason. It's not called "Project Whatever" or "Project Pick And Choose"



Manastone on P99 is made available to mimic Everquest Live History. Manastone was not designed by the ya know, the people that actually designed it, to be removed. It was removed because of obvious imbalance issues that were not seen at it's original conception. If the P99 devs were concerned about it's imbalance they would never have allowed it on the server to begin with.

They are strictly following history however. Alas ..



Devs remove manastone as part of an official time line. They are merely following the same foot steps of the original development team.

Players either leave sleeper up or trigger the event

Not similar. Nice try though.

This is just a lot of nonsense. You can disagree with me, but you haven't given any evidence to disprove my points except you don't like what I have to say.

P99 is not the same thing as the live Everquest servers, either now, or in the past. It is a customized imitation, with no requirement to follow live history. There are plenty of custom changes on P99 already. You are trying to blur the lines between Everquest live back in 1999-2002 and P99. They are two separate things, even if you don't want to admit it.

It is a fact that on P99, Manastone is designed to be removed after a fixed time. It is specifically coded to do so.

It is a fact that on P99, Sleeper is designed to be awoken. It is specifically coded to do so.

It is a fact that players enjoy waking the Sleeper, as it is the statistically common outcome across all servers, both live and on P99.

It is a fact that pixel removal denies pixels regardless of who does it. If you are angry at one party for doing it, you must also be angry at any other party who does it. Otherwise you are just using this as a smokescreen to go after the specific party you don't like.

[Tunabros]

you guys just dont stop, huh?

[Reiwa]

It is a fact that pixel removal denies pixels regardless of who does it. If you are angry at one party for doing it, you must also be angry at any other party who does it. Otherwise you are just using this as a smokescreen to go after the specific party you don't like.

So I have to be mad at staff or being mad at the players is hypocritical?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

So I have to be mad at staff or being mad at the players is hypocritical?

Yup. Both players and staff are guilty of pixel denial. There is nothing specific about Sleeper that makes it a different form of pixel denial. Why? Because Sleeper is intended to be awoken, and was scripted to do so by the staff.

It would be a completely different story if Seal Team found a way to hack the game and deny content that way. That would be a dick move for sure, as it was not intended behavior, and it's only consequence is destruction. But Sleeper is a normal game mechanic, and therefore no different from the game mechanic the staff put in to remove Manastone.

[eqravenprince]

Players are still in control.

A very small percentage of players are in control. Corrected for you.

[Elizondo]

This is just a lot of nonsense. You can disagree with me, but you haven't given any evidence to disprove my points except you don't like what I have to say.

P99 is not the same thing as the live Everquest servers, either now, or in the past. It is a customized imitation, with no requirement to follow live history. There are plenty of custom changes on P99 already. You are trying to blur the lines between Everquest live back in 1999-2002 and P99. They are two separate things, even if you don't want to admit it.

There is no disagreement. Your comparison is wrong and stupid. Flat out.

You were refuted with my first response 15+ pages ago. Sorry you can't handle it.

P99 is supposed to be a museum. This is not a secret. It's supposed to re-create live server history up to SOV also known as the "Classic Time Line". Go read the interviews and mission statement from Rogean and Nilbog going back 10+ years.

It is a fact that on P99, Manastone is designed to be removed after a fixed time. It is specifically coded to do so.

To mimic develop history of changes made by developers. If original EQ Devs left manastone as a droppable item in game, it would still be dropping on P99.

It is a fact that on P99, Sleeper is designed to be awoken. It is specifically coded to do so.

There is no original development history of devs/gms triggering The Sleeper Event and removing that content from the game. If there is, please provide proof. I'll stand corrected.

It is a fact that players enjoy waking the Sleeper, as it is the statistically common outcome across all servers, both live and on P99.

Great. Players enjoy waking the Sleeper. Players enjoy denying other pixels. Whatever. Intent is irrelevant. Choice is the only thing that matters. There are players who also enjoy not waking the sleeper. It doesn't matter. Apples and Oranges.

It is a fact that pixel removal denies pixels regardless of who does it. If you are angry at one party for doing it, you must also be angry at any other party who does it. Otherwise you are just using this as a smokescreen to go after the specific party you don't like.

Sleeper pixel removal is optional. Choice remains.

Manastone removal is not. There is no choice.

Water is wet. You are simply wrong. Accept it.

A very small percentage of players are in control. Corrected for you.

Choice remains

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Manastone removal is not. There is no choice.



Last time I checked, the P99 developers do not have a gun to their head, being forced to remove Manastone. I am not sure why you think the developers are forced to do this. They can choose not to remove Manastone, just like players can choose not to awaken Sleeper. P99 developers have already implemented many custom changes that were not in classic Everquest, so you cannot even use the argument that they are just really good at sticking to their mission statement.

[Reiwa]

Yup. Both players and staff are guilty of pixel denial. There is nothing specific about Sleeper that makes it a different form of pixel denial. Why? Because Sleeper is intended to be awoken, and was scripted to do so by the staff.

It would be a completely different story if Seal Team found a way to hack the game and deny content that way. That would be a dick move for sure, as it was not intended behavior, and it's only consequence is destruction. But Sleeper is a normal game mechanic, and therefore no different from the game mechanic the staff put in to remove Manastone.

You are a silly person, good luck.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You are a silly person, good luck.

Why? Just saying so does not make it so. This is factually correct, the Staff have denied players pixels by removing legacy items, which they have no obligation to do so.

[Elizondo]

Last time I checked, the P99 developers do not have a gun to their head, being forced to remove Manastone. I am not sure why you think the developers are forced to do this. They can choose not to remove Manastone, just like players can choose not to awaken Sleeper. P99 developers have already implemented many custom changes that were not in classic Everquest, so you cannot even use the argument that they are just really good at sticking to their mission statement.

Welcome

Relive the Classic Everquest Experience as it was from 1999 to 2001. Project 1999 is a free to play Classic Everquest Server, unaffiliated with Daybreak Game Company but operating under legal permission. Our goal is to restore the magic and difficulty of the original Everquest game, including the mechanics, interface, and challenges of Original Content, Kunark, and Velious. Project 1999 is the most popular and most accurate reincarnation of Old School Everquest.

[Ooloo]

So is the consensus basically: nobody can ever wake the sleeper, and anyone who ever does is a dick? Cause that hardly seems fair to whichever guild put in the time and effort to do it. Even if it was some conglomeration of multiple guilds who did it, then they'd be dicks? Again, almost nothing changes, and if having specific warder items that no longer drop was that important to somebody that this is an affront to their personhood, why didn't they app to ST? We all play this game, we all understand the mentality, I think it's actually a bit high and mighty of people to pretend they would *never* do the same thing, if they had put in all that time and effort and were in the same position as ST was.

[eqravenprince]

Choice remains

For less than 1% of the server, the other 99% did not have a choice.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Lol that is not a gun to their head. They have no obligation to follow their mission statement, and have enacted custom changes that go against this goal. Not a very good attempt here.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

So is the consensus basically: nobody can ever wake the sleeper, and anyone who ever does is a dick? Cause that hardly seems fair to whichever guild put in the time and effort to do it. Even if it was some conglomeration of multiple guilds who did it, then they'd be dicks? Again, almost nothing changes, and if having specific warder items that no longer drop was that important to somebody that this is an affront to their personhood, why didn't they app to ST? We all play this game, we all understand the mentality, I think it's actually a bit high and mighty of people to pretend you would *never* do the same thing, if you had put in all that time and effort.

Basically that is what the other side is trying to argue, yes. As you point out, it is a silly argument.

[eqravenprince]

I don't think ST would care of Warders still spawned. And if they did, then they truly are douchebags.

[Goldknyght]

So is the consensus basically: nobody can ever wake the sleeper, and anyone who ever does is a dick? Cause that hardly seems fair to whichever guild put in the time and effort to do it. Even if it was some conglomeration of multiple guilds who did it, then they'd be dicks? Again, almost nothing changes, and if having specific warder items that no longer drop was that important to somebody that this is an affront to their personhood, why didn't they app to ST? We all play this game, we all understand the mentality, I think it's actually a bit high and mighty of people to pretend they would *never* do the same thing, if they had put in all that time and effort and were in the same position as ST was.

in essence yes, there is a post on the offical forums or reddit cant remember of a guy talking about his guild doing it back in the day and said it took months before people didnt look down on his guild because it was a D*** move.

[Goldknyght]

Basically that is what the other side is trying to argue, yes. As you point out, it is a silly argument.

No one is arguing that you can or cant wake the sleeper. The argument was that it was a D*** move and its not the same as the manastone removal. Devs programmed the player base to be able to train and steal kills, with your logic no action should be taken. But since kill stealing and training affects more people it can get you suspended or banned vs this where it only affects the few that can do it. So its not considered toxic in devs mind. But trust me EVERY TIME SOMEONE DOES THIS, threads like this one pop up every time. EVERYTIME. So its obviously a problem just like kill stealing or training and should be regulated similar.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

No one is arguing that you can or cant wake the sleeper. The argument was that it was a D*** move and its not the same as the manastone removal. Devs programmed the player base to be able to train and steal kills, with your logic no action should be taken. But since kill stealing and training affects more people it can get you suspended or banned vs this where it only affects the few that can do it. So its not considered toxic in devs mind. But trust me EVERY TIME SOMEONE DOES THIS, threads like this one pop up every time. EVERYTIME. So its obviously a problem just like kill stealing or training and should be regulated similar.

This is wrong. Trains were not purposely programmed, they are an unintended consequence of the game mechanics. This is why in the PnP and on the live servers they will punish players from doing it. They cannot easily prevent trains via clever programming, so they have to resort to GM intervention instead.

Sleeper, on the other hand, was purposely programmed to be awoken and despawn the Warders. There is nothing in the PnP that prevents it from happening, and there is nothing unintended happening here. It isn't like Warders despawning is a bug. That is the difference.

[Local]

I am not boot licking at all.

proceeds to bootlick for another 10 pages.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

proceeds to bootlick for another 10 pages.

Proceeds to make baseless claims every 10 pages to try and look cool. Show me where I am boot licking Seal Team? I haven't given them once ounce of praise. I am simply defending their right to play the game as it was intended lol. I would do the same for you.

[Ooloo]

in essence yes, there is a post on the offical forums or reddit cant remember of a guy talking about his guild doing it back in the day and said it took months before people didnt look down on his guild because it was a D*** move.

Okay well I think the issue is just whether or not it's a dick move. I don't think it is inherently a dick move at all, since it *is* a part of the game. Plus, nearly everyone who plays on this server knows that going in. So I definitely think it's wrong to be surprised this happened, but I also think it's wrong to be pissed at ST for doing it. Very few items were removed from the game, and if getting those items was truly important to somebody there's this guild called seal team who everyone knew was going to do this, and you're free to apply to their guild just like any other guild. Or, you're free to continue to compete against them and all other guilds for the other 99.9% of desirable targets that are still there for the killing.

I am not in seal team, there are lots of classic-velious era encounters I've never even seen, and this does not bother me at all. I'd just encourage people to think about why they play this game sometimes. I mean I get it, it's a bummer, but you've gotta look at it from their perspective. Are they gonna spend 3 years positioning themselves to be able to do this, only to let somebody else do it instead? Of course not. If you want to compete for warders you have to like... compete. Meaning get keyed. If the top guild is already there and is just delaying waking the sleeper out of charity, is it really gonna feel that glorious to get some piece of loot? No, at least not for me it wouldn't.

[Skarne]

All Eli is trying to say is that the comparison of manastone and waking the sleeper are completely different due to the player choice aspect regarding waking the sleeper.

The manastone is a set timeline removal.

The sleeper requires player choice which is a trigger, not a timer.

I agree with Eli on this. It’s a silly argument anyway and I’m surprised it’s gone on for 15 pages.