Damage disciplines not affecting non-standard attacks

[Shiftin]

Currently it is still possible to min backstab with duelist. I don't know if this counts as a backstab or duelist issue, but it seems like one of them.

The lucy description of duelist is:
1: Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by 100%
2: Increase All Skills Minimum Damage Modifier by 400%

So it should both double the max you can hit for and 4x the minimum for "all skills". Backstab is currently not being pulled in as a skill per duelist. Should it be?

Per Aadill, there is a similar issue with ranger archery damage which I will let him expand upon.

edit: to clarify, duelist does double your max backstab roughly by double, it's the second half that is acting up. Kanras would you be willing to share the classic tigole logs you have?

[Aadill]

Per Aadill, there is a similar issue with ranger archery damage which I will let him expand upon.

This issue revolves around the fact that I can hit for minimum damage with my bow (19 damage) and receive the "Your shot has done double damage" message but still only hit for 19. This leads me to believe that the minimum damage is not being adjusted in situations where disciplines or skills that modify it should apply.

[Baxter]

According to the safehouse duelist should work like this:

59 - DuelistDuration: 12 seconds
Reuse time from 30 (L59) to 29 (L60) minutes
Multiplies all base damage attacks by 4When using this discipline, all hits landed by the rogue will be for at least four times the base weapons damage. Backstab damage is doubled. This discipline lasts for 12 seconds, and has a base reuse time of 30 minutes. The reuse time for this discipline will decrease as the rogue gains additional levels.

pulled from http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2870

Right now I dont believe duelist is acting anything like this. Id like to open the test server and have a gm buff a rogue so duelist in its current form lasts like 30 minutes to get a good pars and see how its wrong.

[Aadill]

The test server is down, last I heard.

[Dravingar]

Yeah, here is a little snippet of duelist not working. Sorry I don't have a lot of logs with only duelist but I'll start testing when I get some free time.

Edit : Forgot to add, this is with 255 STR and a SCD in mainhand.

[Wed Jul 06 17:50:26 2011] You backstab Talendor for 120 points of damage.
[Wed Jul 06 17:50:26 2011] You backstab Talendor for 163 points of damage.
[Wed Jul 06 17:50:32 2011] You backstab Talendor for 120 points of damage.
[Wed Jul 06 17:50:32 2011] You backstab Talendor for 128 points of damage.
[Wed Jul 06 17:50:36 2011] Your muscles quiver with power.
[Wed Jul 06 17:50:39 2011] You backstab Talendor for 218 points of damage.
[Wed Jul 06 17:50:39 2011] You backstab Talendor for 120 points of damage.
[Wed Jul 06 17:50:52 2011] You backstab Talendor for 434 points of damage.
[Wed Jul 06 17:50:53 2011] Your fury fades.
[Wed Jul 06 17:51:01 2011] You backstab Talendor for 229 points of damage.
[Wed Jul 06 17:51:01 2011] You backstab Talendor for 120 points of damage.

[Aadill]

Bump for super importance.

[Arkyani]

duelist might work better if backstab actually worked. Backstab is so broke right now they turned rogues into non-casting rangers. Sad.

[dojo420]

Another post showing duelist to modify minimum backstab damage:
The backstab modifier also increases your minimun backstab damage on your duelist disc. It does a min. of 416 on duelist. Still only 130 (lvl 65 standard) on normal minimum backstab though.
source (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=7041#m104499717298408)
even though he/she is talking about the backstab modifier on that weapon, you can tell that duelist should raise minimum backstab damage even without the 10% bs-skill modifier.

[kanras]

First post showing duelist to modify minimum backstab damage:

source (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=7041#m104499717298408)
even though he/she is talking about the backstab modifier on that weapon, you can tell that duelist should raise minimum backstab damage even without the 10% bs-skill modifier.

Someone gets it! Fixed, pending update.

[Aadill]

derp

[dojo420]

yay, thanks kanras.

hopefully this will be a thing of the past after the next patch :)

You try to backstab Trakanon, but miss!
You backstab Trakanon for 120 points of damage.
You backstab Trakanon for 120 points of damage.
You try to backstab Trakanon, but miss!
You try to backstab Trakanon, but miss!
You backstab Trakanon for 120 points of damage.
You backstab Trakanon for 120 points of damage.
You try to backstab Trakanon, but miss!
You try to backstab Trakanon, but miss!
You backstab Trakanon for 120 points of damage.

[Treats]

This was what I had posted in the Backstab thread before Aaldill said the math was wrong:

Max hit = ((Offense + Strength) /100) * (Weap Damage * 4) * (2 + (Backstab skill * .02)

Min hit = (Weap Damage * 4) * (2 + (Backstab skill * .02)

From that source with a min hit of 416 (Backstab skill at 247 with 10% mod):

Min hit = (15 * 4) * (2 + (247.5 * .02) = 416.4

Assume strength at 200:

Max hit = ((250 + 200) / 100) * (15 * 4) * (2 + (247 * .02)) = 1873.8??

[Aadill]

This was what I had posted in the Backstab thread before Aaldill said the math was wrong:


I said your math was wrong because min hit has NOTHING to do with weapon damage, only level. You will always backstab for 120 at level 60 even with a rusty dagger, you'll just rarely hit over that.

Apparently Duelist engages a different formula for minimum damage, though.


EDIT: Arykani said Duelist DOUBLES backstabs but QUADRUPLES regular attacks and when we looked back at the math it didn't make sense, however it totally seems that min damage goes up fourfold. If you look at the skill it says:

DUELIST (Level 59): When using this discipline, all hits landed by the rogue will be for at least four times the base weapons damage. This discipline lasts for 12 seconds, and has a base reuse time of 30 minutes. The reuse time for this discipline will decrease as the rogue gains additional levels.

So, that is correct because it reinstitutes the base damage of the weapon and multiplies it by four for the minimum damage component.

Crazy.

[Treats]

I said your math was wrong because min hit has NOTHING to do with weapon damage, only level. You will always backstab for 120 at level 60 even with a rusty dagger, you'll just rarely hit over that.

Apparently Duelist engages a different formula for minimum damage, though.

These formulas were ONLY factoring in when Duelist was active. I thought that was pretty clear in the other thread. That's why it is (Weapon Damage * 4) and not just (Weapon Damage) for the Max.

Using a rusty dagger the minimum hit would be 120 with and without Duelist active. (The minimum damage would come out to be 78.)

[Aadill]

I was just realizing at what point we were no longer on the same page :)

Also: edits to clarify.

(In short: My B)

[Treats]

All good. Here is his quote from the other thread after:

Just a word,

As a rogue with epic using duelist I NEVER did that much damage. Duelist only doubles backstab damage. It gives 4x to regular melee though. Usually duelist backstabs are in the 800-900 range with ragebringer.

This would be pretty close with the formula for magic number damage with Duelist on. The discipline only lasts 12 seconds so the chances of scoring a Max hit on a backstab would be very very low. Here is what the formula for the magic number with Ragebringer equipped and duelist active:

((Weapon Damage * 4) * 2) * (2 + (Backstab skill * .02)

((15 * 4) * 2) * (2 + (225 * .02) = 780

So with Ragebringer and Duelist active you would be hitting between 390 and 780 most of the time. A hit over 780 would be extremely rare but could very well top out at 1977 with max strength.

[Baxter]

As of the July 24th patch the backstab portion of the disc is working correctly. However the regular melee portion is only receiving 2x base weapon damage instead of the classic 4x base weapon damage.

[Wildas]

Duelist did the following,

2x to all hits and 4x min hit. If 4x min hit was > 2x a normal hit the 4x min modifier would supercede.

However, I'm pretty sure I remember 240 being min backstab with duelist. Old safehouse archive should have some screenshots.

553 was max normal BS with a 15 damage weapon, 1106 max duelist backstab.