student loans are a hit!

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

YOU HAVE 60 Months...

Man, if you knew me, I basically am "Mr. Personal Responsibility."

Show me where it says life owes me anything? Everyone has to work their way. That's life.

Today DENIAL (go ahead, let the tears flow) to the free-riders! HEADSHOT to the gimmie dat bunch! No free rides, and fuck your feelings.

Having said that, it is child's play to maximize your student loan burden, and walk away scot-free and here is the kicker: normally, a forgiven loan must be counted as income. If you maximize your student loan debt like I suggest, that's gonna be a massive windfall hit when it gets forgiven.

How do you get any and all *federally subsidized* student loans not just forgiven, but even not counted as taxable income?

Be like Sadre.
https://i.imgur.com/ZvkcgJl.jpg

The fact you play this game certifies you. You naturally should time it so your TPD is ready to hit right when you retire. I mean, if you work, they reject the TPD application right there. You just get in a groove with your p-doc, and low and behold, retirement month and your last nerve month happen to coincide. You say thanks doc, he says "This is what I do."

If some of you sick fucks want to work in the money mines all your life, I can't help you. But here is the absolute sure-fire way to get all FSSL's poofed into non-existence at retirement.

I made over 300k this year using this one simple trick.

[Origen]

Joke's on the banker, my retirement plan is to perish

[aussenseiter]

Wouldn't the loans already have sunset if you'd been paying the minimum?

[wuanahto]

well, at least we have new waves of students who know of native american basket weaving and 1800s african tribal law and gender politics

glad i dropped out of high school to replace phone screens and batteries for x10-20 the price i paid for materials plus hourly and tip.

[arvidez]

Wouldn't the loans already have sunset if you'd been paying the minimum?

late or miss a payment, that resets. a decade of consecutive on time payments.

[Nibblewitz]

I’ve never seen a president win so hard when he’s not even president.

[Evia]

This is horse shit. It's not fair that I took out multiple student loans to finish college. Now that I'm only making 90k a year, when I thought id made 200k, I can't pay the loans back. Is that my fault? No. It's the systems fault! I shouldn't have to be responsible for the loans I took out. What an injustice that is being done here!

[Origen]

Nice to see reactionary conservatives come around to questioning capitalism :rolleyes:

[Nibblewitz]

Who would have predicted that the market for anthropologists and sociologists would crash?

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Wouldn't the loans already have sunset if you'd been paying the minimum?

Why would one pay anything? Get a family member to be your proxy credit, establish an escrow to handle all monies needed by the proxy for yer business. Then watch them chase you around for decade after decade.

Look, if you are making fine money, this is not for you. You will get garnished as hard as they can. They will figure out how to nab you for obviously being a prick. But who here has weekly New Jack City level money?

Not me. So, here is the do-se-do. If you keep it low (income) and slow (you), after their formula, they can only take 20% of maybe $200-$300 bucks a month. It's the law. If you are poor, just don't pay anything. Go into default. What, is God gonna get you for that Walter? Gimmie a Break. Do what I say about a proxy credit source ("the bank"), just get used to being blasted to hell with ... nuisance phone calls.

Just never say you are there, which is technically true. The person is listening to an electronic simulation. You know it's you, but the bill collector is assuming wtf I don't know goodbye. I aint got time to debate Terry Gilliam movies today man.
https://i.imgur.com/RkdHaBC.jpg

obligatory see also: Big Short, The

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I'm assuming everyone is maxing their subsized loans? That's why this is a deal.

once you get to grad school, you can go into default and still get SSL's. There is no limit to how many degrees you can get. You are entitled to have a loan (which always includes "living expenses") for your 2nd, 3rd, 9th, crappy MA.

The popular route is the "Lookin good feelin good" circuit. MA's sea related fields, bum around working on cruise ships. You can do hospitality, oceanography, and physical therapy -- no rush, take your time 52 weeks a year. Start clocking your crazy somewhere around age 50 you will have a lock on the TPD. Then you retire and just become a passenger, or do something different. I don't give a fuck. Go rent a village in Cambodia.

[Patriam1066]

Engineering, comp sci, nursing all good degrees

The other BS is questionable

[aussenseiter]

Why would one pay anything? Get a family member to be your proxy credit, establish an escrow to handle all monies needed by the proxy for yer business. Then watch them chase you around for decade after decade.

Look, if you are making fine money, this is not for you. You will get garnished as hard as they can. They will figure out how to nab you for obviously being a prick. But who here has weekly New Jack City level money?

Not me. So, here is the do-se-do. If you keep it low (income) and slow (you), after their formula, they can only take 20% of maybe $200-$300 bucks a month. It's the law. If you are poor, just don't pay anything. Go into default. What, is God gonna get you for that Walter? Gimmie a Break. Do what I say about a proxy credit source ("the bank"), just get used to being blasted to hell with ... nuisance phone calls.

Just never say you are there, which is technically true. The person is listening to an electronic simulation. You know it's you, but the bill collector is assuming wtf I don't know goodbye. I aint got time to debate Terry Gilliam movies today man.
https://i.imgur.com/RkdHaBC.jpg

obligatory see also: Big Short, The

I'm assuming everyone is maxing their subsized loans? That's why this is a deal.

once you get to grad school, you can go into default and still get SSL's. There is no limit to how many degrees you can get. You are entitled to have a loan (which always includes "living expenses") for your 2nd, 3rd, 9th, crappy MA.

The popular route is the "Lookin good feelin good" circuit. MA's sea related fields, bum around working on cruise ships. You can do hospitality, oceanography, and physical therapy -- no rush, take your time 52 weeks a year. Start clocking your crazy somewhere around age 50 you will have a lock on the TPD. Then you retire and just become a passenger, or do something different. I don't give a fuck. Go rent a village in Cambodia.

https://www.thefederalcriminalattorneys.com/federal-conspiracy

[Botten]

This was just a move by the paid conservative judges to ensure more of their uneducated ilk don’t go to college and learn that the GOP don’t have their well being in mind.

Hopefully Gen Z stomps the GOP in the next election for the house and senate to make a change. Oh and to extend the court. If conservative judges want be deplorable then their voice can be muffled.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

https://www.thefederalcriminalattorneys.com/federal-conspiracy

Are you gonna be that bitch?
https://i.imgur.com/6MH4paC.jpg

Didn't I say you have to be certified, minimum of 60 continuous weeks "near unusable by God and Man"? Do you read any of my posts or memes about several "crazy person movies"?

That's honest crazy. I want nothing to do with fakes. Neither would any worthwhile signatory P-doc. This is not your therapist sending a letter. This is, in my case, 600+ pages of endless "He wipes to Crazy again" logs. Logs don't lie.

You mistake me for a rogue. This is all about helping people on the edge of the night, and it dares you to change your way of caring about your debt, your student loan debt, it need not be debt.

If yer crazy.

[Patriam1066]

This was just a move by the paid conservative judges to ensure more of their uneducated ilk don’t go to college and learn that the GOP don’t have their well being in mind.

Hopefully Gen Z stomps the GOP in the next election for the house and senate to make a change. Oh and to extend the court. If conservative judges want be deplorable then their voice can be muffled.

All 6 are paid? Got proof?

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Brick and Mortar college is largely obsolete from a physical plant perspective.

A typical college is a massive sunk capital quadrant in search for a reason to exist in a world where the dimensions and properties of its quadrant are obsolete.

We have seen this coming since the mid 1960's. The "information bomb." Boom goes the quads.

It's like saying "Boy I do love them glaciers!" Well, good for fucking you. Deal. It's done.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

https://i.imgur.com/7W93gG8.jpg

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

This was just a move by the paid conservative judges to ensure more of their uneducated ilk don’t go to college and learn that the GOP don’t have their well being in mind.

Hopefully Gen Z stomps the GOP in the next election for the house and senate to make a change. Oh and to extend the court. If conservative judges want be deplorable then their voice can be muffled.

College is obsolete. DIY.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MD1YR1JPiU
_MD1YR1JPiU

[Ooloo]

This scotus is kicking ass and taking names.

Oh no! I can't just automatically kill my baby if I don't want them!

Oh no! I can't be super racist anymore when choosing college applicants!

Oh no! I can't pass my student loan debt burden to working class taxpayers!

Every half-baked megalib idea is actually being called to the mat and shown to be totally incoherent nonsense and I'm really enjoying it.

[nom_fats]

This scotus is kicking ass and taking names.

Oh no! I can't just automatically kill my baby if I don't want them!

Oh no! I can't be super racist anymore when choosing college applicants!

Oh no! I can't pass my student loan debt burden to working class taxpayers!

Every half-baked megalib idea is actually being called to the mat and shown to be totally incoherent nonsense and I'm really enjoying it.

Oh no! I’m sorry it’s “the moops”

[nom_fats]

https://youtu.be/bZa-P6LRBnU

Btw very hot track here featuring art vandelay samples

[Lune]

This is horse shit. It's not fair that I took out multiple student loans to finish college. Now that I'm only making 90k a year, when I thought id made 200k, I can't pay the loans back. Is that my fault? No. It's the systems fault! I shouldn't have to be responsible for the loans I took out. What an injustice that is being done here!

This is horse shit. It's not fair that I opened a burger joint and we had a pandemic. Now that I'm getting zero customers when I thought I'd be getting twenty, I can't pay my employees. Is that my fault? No. It's the systems fault! I shouldn't have to be responsible for the PPP loans I took out to buy a new Lexus. What an injustice that is being done here!

Oh wait, they got forgiven

[Nibblewitz]

Indeed, those business owners were harmed by the government's response to the China virus.

[Lune]

Indeed, those business owners were harmed by the government's response to the China virus.

They were harmed by most non-Herman-Cain Americans wisely choosing to try not to get COVID until good treatments came out. Business still blew ass even after the "Lockdown" ended because of aggregate free market forces, ie, the decisions of individuals.

[Ooloo]

They were harmed by most non-Herman-Cain Americans wisely choosing to try not to get COVID until good treatments came out. Business still blew ass even after the "Lockdown" ended because of aggregate free market forces, ie, the decisions of individuals.

The entire covid storyline unfolded within the last *three years*. Drawing any conclusion at all about policy impositions is pure monday morning quarterbacking when we're still not even half a decade out; it takes a long time to analyze that much data.

Also none of that has anything to do with the ethics of making people who never took out foolish loans pay for those who did.

[aussenseiter]

This is horse shit. It's not fair that I opened a burger joint and we had a pandemic. Now that I'm getting zero customers when I thought I'd be getting twenty, I can't pay my employees. Is that my fault? No. It's the systems fault! I shouldn't have to be responsible for the PPP loans I took out to buy a new Lexus. What an injustice that is being done here!

Oh wait, they got forgiven

Congress should legislate student loan forgiveness then.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Star trek argument resolution always follows the Shields, Sensors, Words paradigm.

Shields beat Sensors, Sensors beats Words, and Words beats Shields. This is *not* how reality works, but it is how Star Trek works.
https://i.imgur.com/law8Q0G.jpg

Every damn episode is just simply a game of shields, sensors, words. That's the plot line architecture of all 3 Matrix movies too.
https://i.imgur.com/LobahZk.jpg

[aussenseiter]

Star trek argument resolution always follows the Shields, Sensors, Words paradigm.

Shields beat Sensors, Sensors beats Words, and Words beats Shields. This is *not* how reality works, but it is how Star Trek works.
https://i.imgur.com/law8Q0G.jpg

Every damn episode is just simply a game of shields, sensors, words. That's the plot line architecture of all 3 Matrix movies too.
https://i.imgur.com/LobahZk.jpg

The counter has to be that a 2003 Republican majority intended for and approved student loan forgiveness at the stroke of executive pen.

That dog won't hunt and didn't.

[Trexller]

https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2022/10/640/320/GettyImages-1243619362.jpg?ve=1&tl=1
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fworkfeelsgood.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2019%2F01%2FDepartment-of-Kick-Ass-1000x667.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=a703284fffe984ea02fa5e8ca5ae8312396d53649cdf3a a5320084bb926e2d28&ipo=images
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP. 4ZeDjS9Dm66cpFN0aYPKTAHaDz%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=59df8501fed7364a72dae8ab2e020c8af63d60fcf53f43 647dec52f7afbf3c57&ipo=images
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FB14bKa-CIAEECoJ.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=2f77a745f373ecbdaff4ef723e4af72f9230c7540c8921 577f6fa2bb6e6fb5c3&ipo=images
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi0.wp.com%2Fpoliticallyincorrecth umor.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F06%2Fthats-a-liberal-all-they-do-is-cry-trump-kim-jung-un.jpg%3Fresize%3D530%252C431%26ssl%3D1&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=72e0991038087f4600b9c5ab5292307154578aa1d6f833 3a6843a68d2d211495&ipo=images

[Lune]

Funny you don't really see memes in the reverse, almost like liberals just don't really give a shit about you, are just decent people trying to live their lives, and just want to stop getting fucked over by 33% of capitol-burning hicks that have 66% of the power

[Trexller]

Funny you don't really see memes in the reverse, almost like liberals just don't really give a shit about you, are just decent people trying to live their lives, and just want to stop getting fucked over by 33% of capitol-burning hicks that have 66% of the power

haha it's been known for decades that the left can't meme, because they are perpetually enraged and can't see beyond their own pathetic identity politics long enough to develop any sense of humor.

that whatever "33%" of capitol burning hicks, just thinks their feeble attempts at social legitimacy are fuckin hilarious.

you don't wanna get laughed at? then I suggest you stop dressing up like clowns.

https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2023/06/918/516/GettyImages-1259028595.jpg?ve=1&tl=1

and about this...

and just want to stop getting fucked over by 33% of capitol-burning hicks

I remind you of the "summer of love" -- That's what an insurrection actually looks like, coward.

https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2020/08/CNN-Headline-Fiery-2.jpg

[aussenseiter]

haha it's been known for decades that the left can't meme, because they are perpetually enraged and can't see beyond their own pathetic identity politics long enough to develop any sense of humor.

that whatever "33%" of capitol burning hicks, just thinks their feeble attempts at social legitimacy are fuckin hilarious.

you don't wanna get laughed at? then I suggest you stop dressing up like clowns.

https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2023/06/918/516/GettyImages-1259028595.jpg?ve=1&tl=1

and about this...



I remind you of the "summer of love" -- That's what an insurrection actually looks like, coward.

https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2020/08/CNN-Headline-Fiery-2.jpg

You have to pretend Senate elections are national to get to 33/66 👍

[Botten]

haha it's been known for decades that the left can't meme, because they are perpetually enraged and can't see beyond their own pathetic identity politics long enough to develop any sense of humor.


The amount of passionate moronic social media produced by very prominent Republicans are comedy gold by themselves.

Meme? Or just show how over the top their statements are…

"When a physician removes a child from a woman, that is the largest organ in a body. That's a big thing. That's a big surgery. You don't have any other organs in your body that are bigger than that."

—Alabama state Rep. Mary Sue McClurkin (R), defending her sweeping anti-abortion bill.

Or

Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene reported that there had been numerous sightings of Jewish space lasers across the United States today.

Greene said that the“increased Jewish-space-laser activity” was a matter of deep concern, although she was not certain of the lasers’ purpose.

Or

And lets not forget
Referencing Covfefe - White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer stated, "I think the President and a small group of people know exactly what he meant."

[Trexller]

pathetic attempt at relevancy that won't earn my wife's respect and convince her to stop cheating on me

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fthefederalistpapers.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F11%2Fimageedit_3640_806 7304521_720-1-e1510968760404.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=8a7dd05203fd3ad01f2cd900b099b2cf4cfefc6c1511fd 186a543cbf7c8e4257&ipo=images

[Botten]

.

The irony is your meme came from an alt right site thefederalistpapers and the picture is originally from an urban intellectuals website. Heh

Here this fits your attempt a bit better.

22192

[Botten]

Gen Z is coming

TKcyXilCj9E

[Lune]

People in blue states live 2 years longer on average (people in Connecticut live 7 years longer than those in Oklahoma), have a higher quality of life, are happier, richer, more productive, healthier, thinner, and more physically fit. All those pictures of cringe liberals you just posted? Not a single fatass in any of them. The difference is similar to that between Germany and Poland

So yea if spitting in liberal cereal lets you feel good about yourself you're welcome to keep that. Meanwhile billionaires are plundering the country while you focus on memery and hatred


I remind you of the "summer of love" -- That's what an insurrection actually looks like, coward.

They did that in response to a police officer murdering an unarmed black man, on top of generations of systemic abuse. It was no worse than the Tulsa bombings. You slobs vandalized the capitol because your cult leader lost an election. Those two things are not the same.

[Lune]

Congress should legislate student loan forgiveness then.

Congress passed the authority to forgive loans during a crisis via the HEROES Act that the relief program was based on.

That a bunch of right wing politicians in illegitimate SCOTUS seats found this unconstitutional is as unsurprising as the revelation that the very billionaires who benefit from workers in worse financial situations (less leverage=lower wages), were flying Clarence and Ginny Thomas, and Alito around in their private jets.

Young people put Biden in office and it's primarily young people that just got fucked. I hope they remember this in November, one year and one month after their payments start coming due lol... and promptly pack the fuck out of the supreme court

[Evia]

Go my team go!

[Ekco]

Go my team go!

it's basically curling with deck chairs on the titanic. the sport is stupid but you're happy when your team wins in the moment, but in the end we're all going to drown.


The federal student loan portfolio currently totals more than $1.6 trillion, owed by about 43 million borrowers.

you can force them to repay or forgive it, it doesn't fuckin matter the system is still dying

[Origen]

I'm a leftist. I can meme.

I just don't really like Trexller because his response to everything is violence and stupid masculine chest beating. It's very high school except he's in his 30's.

So I don't usually bother.

[aussenseiter]

Congress passed the authority to forgive loans during a crisis via the HEROES Act that the relief program was based on.

That a bunch of right wing politicians in illegitimate SCOTUS seats found this unconstitutional is as unsurprising as the revelation that the very billionaires who benefit from workers in worse financial situations (less leverage=lower wages), were flying Clarence and Ginny Thomas, and Alito around in their private jets.

Young people put Biden in office and it's primarily young people that just got fucked. I hope they remember this in November, one year and one month after their payments start coming due lol... and promptly pack the fuck out of the supreme court

Are you insane? There's no way the Bush congress intended anything of the kind.

[Ooloo]

"illegitimate scotus seats" lol.

The supreme court is only supposed to issue decisions that I personally approve of, this is madness

[Nibblewitz]

Let's be real. Even Nancy Pelosi knew this was unconstitutional. Forgiving a loan is a payment to the lender, and the executive branch does not have power of the purse.

[Botten]

"illegitimate scotus seats" lol.

The supreme court is only supposed to issue decisions that I personally approve of, this is madness

Oh the Supreme court conservative Judges are bought and paid for.

And the Dark Money (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/30/supreme-court-leonard-leo-dark-money) keeps flowing in many of those case brought to the them.

Amy Barrett
A conservative dark money group led by former President Donald Trump’s judicial adviser Leonard Leo bankrolled Amy Coney Barrett’s Supreme Court confirmation campaign with nearly $22 million in anonymous cash, while another nonprofit that Leo helps steer saw a fundraising bonanza and showered cash on other organizations boosting Barrett, according to tax returns obtained by The Daily Poster.
The new tax returns shed light on how Barrett’s successful last-minute confirmation campaign was aided by a flood of dark money. They also reveal the rapid growth of Leo’s already highly successful dark money network and its tentacles in the broader conservative movement.

Neil Gorsuch
The US supreme court justice Neil Gorsuch made as much as $500,000 from a 2017 real estate sale, according to a new report, but did not disclose the identity of the buyer: the chief executive of a law firm with extensive business before the high court.

Clarence Thomas
Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas has been accused of concealing decades worth of lavish trips paid for by a major GOP donor in a new ProPublica report. Citing flight records, internal documents, and dozens of interviews, ProPublica says the conservative judge’s many trips with real estate magnate Harlan Crow “appeared nowhere on Thomas’ financial disclosures.” One 2019 trip alone would have cost more than $500,000

Chief Justice John Roberts
During that eight-year stretch, according to internal records from her employer, Jane Roberts generated a whopping $10.3 million in commissions, paid out by corporations and law firms for placing high-dollar lawyers with them.
That eye-popping figure comes from records in a whistleblower complaint filed by a disgruntled former colleague of Roberts, who says that as the spouse of the most powerful judge in the United States, the income she earns from law firms who practice before the Court should be subject to public scrutiny.

Brett Kavanaugh
Brett Kavanaugh other than his free Italy FBI came out and admitted they lacked authority to conduct further investigation into Kavanaugh sexual misconduct during his arrangement.

Samuel Alito
The US supreme court justice Samuel Alito accepted a seat on a private plane owned by the conservative billionaire Paul Singer, flying to Alaska for a luxury fishing trip hosted by another rightwing businessman, then did NOT declare such gifts or recuse himself when Singer had business before the court.

[Botten]

Let's be real. Even Nancy Pelosi knew this was unconstitutional. Forgiving a loan is a payment to the lender, and the executive branch does not have power of the purse.

O'rly

Dark Brandon still getting it done. (https://www.politico.com/newsletters/playbook/2023/07/01/inside-bidens-plan-b-on-student-debt-00104516)

The lack luster candidate for the Republican party really isn't going to turn out the votes as he gets further indicted and looks weak in his loses. You really can't blame the GOP voters for their non-interest in voting in 2024.

Biden administration is just kicking it off. He is getting round the decision made by the conservatives in the supreme court.

And his inflation act is working!
Inflation Reduction Act Continues to Lower Out-of-Pocket Prescription Drug Costs for Drugs with Price Increases Above Inflation (https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/press-releases/inflation-reduction-act-continues-lower-out-pocket-prescription-drug-costs-drugs-price-increases)

[Elizondo]

xqftb3Q6hLA

[Ooloo]

Oh the Supreme court conservative Judges are bought and paid for.

And the Dark Money (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/30/supreme-court-leonard-leo-dark-money) keeps flowing in many of those case brought to the them.

Amy Barrett
A conservative dark money group led by former President Donald Trump’s judicial adviser Leonard Leo bankrolled Amy Coney Barrett’s Supreme Court confirmation campaign with nearly $22 million in anonymous cash, while another nonprofit that Leo helps steer saw a fundraising bonanza and showered cash on other organizations boosting Barrett, according to tax returns obtained by The Daily Poster.
The new tax returns shed light on how Barrett’s successful last-minute confirmation campaign was aided by a flood of dark money. They also reveal the rapid growth of Leo’s already highly successful dark money network and its tentacles in the broader conservative movement.

Neil Gorsuch
The US supreme court justice Neil Gorsuch made as much as $500,000 from a 2017 real estate sale, according to a new report, but did not disclose the identity of the buyer: the chief executive of a law firm with extensive business before the high court.

Clarence Thomas
Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas has been accused of concealing decades worth of lavish trips paid for by a major GOP donor in a new ProPublica report. Citing flight records, internal documents, and dozens of interviews, ProPublica says the conservative judge’s many trips with real estate magnate Harlan Crow “appeared nowhere on Thomas’ financial disclosures.” One 2019 trip alone would have cost more than $500,000

Chief Justice John Roberts
During that eight-year stretch, according to internal records from her employer, Jane Roberts generated a whopping $10.3 million in commissions, paid out by corporations and law firms for placing high-dollar lawyers with them.
That eye-popping figure comes from records in a whistleblower complaint filed by a disgruntled former colleague of Roberts, who says that as the spouse of the most powerful judge in the United States, the income she earns from law firms who practice before the Court should be subject to public scrutiny.

Brett Kavanaugh
Brett Kavanaugh other than his free Italy FBI came out and admitted they lacked authority to conduct further investigation into Kavanaugh sexual misconduct during his arrangement.

Samuel Alito
The US supreme court justice Samuel Alito accepted a seat on a private plane owned by the conservative billionaire Paul Singer, flying to Alaska for a luxury fishing trip hosted by another rightwing businessman, then did NOT declare such gifts or recuse himself when Singer had business before the court.

Okay that's great. I suppose only the conservative justices go on vacations, and the lib ones are just the bestest boyscouts ever?

Also, who cares? Their decisions are perfectly sound and actually uphold the constitution, rather than interpreting it using such tortured logic that it might as well not exist. Libs keep moaning about how these decisions "override precedent" as if that matters at all. Precedents get overridden. That's the point of the supreme court.

I do think lifetime appointments are kind of silly because it's totally arbitrary, but it seems to be functioning properly at the moment as a check on the other branches of government. Also known as the entire point of this country. If you just want lib policy to win every time and live in a one-party commutopia, there are lots of failed states you could move to!

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

The counter has to be that a 2003 Republican majority intended for and approved student loan forgiveness at the stroke of executive pen.

That dog won't hunt and didn't.

Hey, I am fully versed on the BS the past 20 years of college grads were being sold. No friend am I of the "fuck your feelings" crowd. College was a always a "contract: do X, get Y, where Y did not = "woah that's a nasty debt!"

But these loans have all been monetized and the given the entire "The Big Short" treatment. This is 2008 2.0. 2008 was housing debt, this is college debt.


subsidizing olde tech is for the Amish
College as we know it is old tech
This debt is all woven into the global financial system
Just like the mortgage market was
These are dead loans, people will just stop paying them
talking about forgiving them only put a spotlight on this problem
you can't "forgive" them in anything aproaching a fair way.
this is a 2 trillion dollar active market


We can't just subsidize "hey free 4 year stays at cool places for everyone!"

Technologically we can easily deliver *quality* Bachelor's level courses of study for pennies on the dollar using 1) new tech, and, 2) MANY unhappy employees of the decaying rotten college system, who just want a damn sane job.

This is what it felt like to the manuscruptorium business after the invention of the printing press, essentially. Bye! Maybe the rich want hand-lettered books, but print is mint!

TL;DR adjust concept. Education no longer equals "the school" It equals the knowledge and it's effective sharing with each generation of students.

This no longer requires The Dead Poet Society nor Roll Tide Roll.

timestamp. Inside the industry, we have known this was coming since the 90's.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

https://i.imgur.com/N0J04bx.jpg

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

this is a 2 trillion dollar active market




highlighted important part. People have invested in this debt. This is just a gully. Hehehee. Joker time a comin.

[Botten]

Okay that's great. I suppose only the conservative justices go on vacations, and the lib ones are just the bestest boyscouts ever?

Also, who cares? Their decisions are perfectly …

Oh they are corrupt as Fuck

But GOP voters don’t care. At this point it is just what ever sticks it to liberals. For the church going party, morals flew out the window a long time ago with electing the Orange scandal machine.

[Ooloo]

Oh they are corrupt as Fuck

But GOP voters don’t care. At this point it is just what ever sticks it to liberals. For the church going party, morals flew out the window a long time ago with electing the Orange scandal machine.

What part of "you can't be super racist when you choose who goes to your college" is "corrupt af"?

You guys are supposed to be against racism right? Well they just got rid of an insanely racist policy, but you're mad... soooo, what gives?

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Ooloo's refusal or inability to adapt his ideas still basically playing Kathy Bates to his brain's James Cahn I see.

"But I thought you said race is bad? This was about race and it got destroyed. So this good!"

"Well, it's like a patient who has cancer see. The cancer is bad, but it's the patient's own tissue too, and so ..."

"Typical bullshit!"

https://i.imgur.com/yZyxz7n.jpg

[Botten]

What part of "you can't be super racist when you choose who goes to your college" is "corrupt af"?

You guys are supposed to be against racism right? Well they just got rid of an insanely racist policy, but you're mad... soooo, what gives?

Woooosh right over you head as to the bought and paid part.

Like I said it is sad scandal doesn’t mean a thing anymore to the party of Christians that throw their morals away as long as it sticks it to the liberals.

Brainwashed much?

[Ooloo]

Woooosh right over you head as to the bought and paid part.

Like I said it is sad scandal doesn’t mean a thing anymore to the party of Christians that throw their morals away as long as it sticks it to the liberals.

Brainwashed much?

No it's just that you haven't even remotely qualified your assertion that conservative justices are "bought and paid for". You just posted a bunch of words about how they take vacations and fly on people's planes sometimes. Who gives a shit? Why is this supposedly so damning and what the hell does it have to do with their legal opinions?

[Botten]

No it's just that you haven't even remotely qualified your assertion that conservative justices are "bought and paid for". You just posted a bunch of words about how they take vacations and fly on people's planes sometimes. Who gives a shit? Why is this supposedly so damning and what the hell does it have to do with their legal opinions?

Right cuz accepting expensive gifts when not recusing yourself isn’t corrupt.

While Republicans are more concerned with the mustard chosen by Obama or whether Biden gets up to leave after an interview, scandal is down right expected of Republican politicians at this point. Party of the rich and scandalous indeed.

[Elizondo]

22193

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/authors/130766/sonia-sotomayor

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca3/18-2085/18-2085-2019-07-02.html

[Ooloo]

Right cuz accepting expensive gifts when not recusing yourself isn’t corrupt.

While Republicans are more concerned with the mustard chosen by Obama or whether Biden gets up to leave after an interview, scandal is down right expected of Republican politicians at this point. Party of the rich and scandalous indeed.

Well the party of the rich just struck a major blow against racism and you're mad about it.

Personally, I'm against racism in all of it's forms, so I think they did a great job.

[aussenseiter]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22193&d=1688248349

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/authors/130766/sonia-sotomayor

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca3/18-2085/18-2085-2019-07-02.html

The Supreme Court does not reveal how individual justices vote when it comes to “cert,” but it does note when they recuse, which Sotomayor did not. (https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docket/docketfiles/html/public/19-560.html)

[Elizondo]

22194

[Botten]

Oh are we going after book deals too?

Gorsuch didn’t recuse in a more recent case, despite earning $655,000 from Penguin Random House in 2018, 2019 and 2020.

Justices Amy Coney Barrett and Ketanji Brown Jackson are also planning to publish books the same way as Gorsuch.

Moot especially when grasping at straws vs the scandal taken up by all 6 conservative Supreme court justices. Nice try thou.

[Botten]

Well the party of the rich just struck a major blow against racism and you're mad about it.

Personally, I'm against racism in all of it's forms, so I think they did a great job.

If you actually understood what critical race theory was you would understand that affirmative action was making up for and continued racial equality in education.

Now rich white parents can get more rich white kids into ivy league schools with less restriction on admittance.

Honestly, I did not expect a guy who thinks racism is gone to get it.

[Trexller]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQdh4HHwUQ-HEwa1fXcB099oqHYWonQB0tZKHC36XXUu5Sb7i0lBmHYr6mir3 0Jpp-tmXY&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR-vjjX9JcbJCQrZIn_WWm6eMFcFicybcpMF7NgLt8gJ2kWFrYzyf bXKwimIfAqmZrnj7k&usqp=CAU
https://media.makeameme.org/created/trump-is-right-9o1mgy.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2uVf6_VEAENFI7.jpg
https://thefederalistpapers.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/imageedit_350_6804879002.jpg

[Ooloo]

If you actually understood what critical race theory was you would understand that affirmative action was making up for and continued racial equality in education.

Now rich white parents can get more rich white kids into ivy league schools with less restriction on admittance.

Honestly, I did not expect a guy who thinks racism is gone to get it.

How bout the asian kids? They were very much historically marginalized, not even that long ago, and they get screwed even harder than whites by affirmative action.

I'm still confused on the finer details of being openly racist and proud of it.

[Trexller]

How bout the asian kids? They were very much historically marginalized, not even that long ago, and they get screwed even harder than whites by affirmative action.

asians are just smarter than most tho, and most of us work insanely hard to get ahead. It's innate, asian societies are ultra competitive.

we didn't evolve in a sub saharan jungle banging on bongo drums living a life in pursuit of game fowl and sweet fruit juices while raping virgins because our witch doctors made us all believe that sex with a virgin is the cure for AIDs

[Botten]

How bout the asian kids? They were very much historically marginalized, not even that long ago, and they get screwed even harder than whites by affirmative action.

I'm still confused on the finer details of being openly racist and proud of it.

The irony is the belief you think either racism doesn't exist or it is essentially done by others that dispute your mantra. You just don't get it.

The veracity of critical race theory depends upon whites being dominant. At the very least, it requires minority success to be contingent upon white interests.

Asian American interests are oftentimes in direct opposition to white interests. White resentment drives much of the anti-Asian discrimination performed by Ivy League admissions departments.

Asian American achievement threatens the ability of rich, white applicants to get into their preferred universities. An internal Harvard report found that Asians would make up 43 percent of the student body if students were admitted solely on academic merit.

Now Asians can take the place of other prominent races fighting to get into Ivy League schools. Like American Indians or African Americans.

But you know who it doesn't affect. Rich White privileged Americans.

[Trexller]

It's 2023. This is the only place that racism exists:

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Frr48pbc40tex.png&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=2e1e6e9a06f596574947aa438a59549a1fa0c9f09a3b37 47a6afbfb4309bd3c5&ipo=images

[Origen]

Ooloo only thinks racism exists when it benefits his argument

[Crepido]

botten does t realize he/she/it is actually the racist. thinking that black americans need special help to do what everyone also has to.
or calling women an opressed minority when there's more of them then men.

[Trexller]

Ooloo only thinks racism exists when it benefits his argument

I'm not Ooloo

I'm a Korean dude who sometimes hooks up with this black woman who gives dome better than any white girl i've ever been with.

black ladies know whats up in bed

[Botten]

botten does t realize he/she/it is actually the racist. thinking that black americans need special help to do what everyone also has to.
or calling women an opressed minority when there's more of them then men.

What?! * Boggle I was talking about primarily Asian Americans in my last post. Keep up previous banned failure.

America is a melting pot of minorities and genders. Sorry white Christian males regardless of their population feel threatened enough they need to limit the freedoms of others.

[Lune]

White resentment drives much of the anti-Asian discrimination performed by Ivy League admissions departments.

Asian American achievement threatens the ability of rich, white applicants to get into their preferred universities. An internal Harvard report found that Asians would make up 43 percent of the student body if students were admitted solely on academic merit.

I don't think that's white resentment. Asians are disadvantaged in college admissions because otherwise they'd be way way way overrepresented; it's the flip side of affirmative action and it is why Asians tend to be right there alongside Whites in opposing affirmative action. There was a controversy in my home state of California with the UC system where Asians were being disadvantaged because they were finding the academic requirements for an Asian person to get into an elite UC far exceeded other races. Harvard wants a diverse student body, not made up of whatever groups happen to be the most successful at gaming the admissions criteria.

Footnote, I did by bachelors at UC Irvine which was at the time 48% Asian lol. Had some really good fucking Smash and DotA tournaments

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

If you actually understood what critical race theory was ....

Almost 50% don't read but pretend like hell that they always do.

25% of what's left do not care that they don't read. They can't read a map. They do not know how many continents there are, nor do they care.

25% -- white devils every last one -- mostly use audiobooks and listen to NPR.

Maybe 5% of the population can read in the general sense of "And I can easily explain to you correctly what I just read."

And we are the apex predator nation of the apex predator species on planet Earth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngHrfRul7gQ
ngHrfRul7gQ

[aussenseiter]

Almost 50% don't read but pretend like hell that they always do.

25% of what's left do not care that they don't read. They can't read a map. They do not know how many continents there are, nor do they care.

25% -- white devils every last one -- mostly use audiobooks and listen to NPR.

Maybe 5% of the population can read in the general sense of "And I can easily explain to you correctly what I just read."

Okay then why'd you have to go and destroy the manuscriptorium?

God damned tech bros.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Okay then why'd you have to go and destroy the manuscriptorium?

God damned tech bros.

Modern chemistry has killed more human being than all wars and religions combined.

People like Ooloo and his autoflushers are essentially aggrieved at the four laws of thermodynamics.

GO FUCKING AMISH YOU DAMN CUPCAKES.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

And Botten is doing God's work but surely knows, this is Hopeless Central here.

These people do not want to learn. Nor, I suspect, can they.

I was talking to a neighborhood kid the other, junked already 15. Thinks it's all good. He said he wanted to someday visit London and Paris. "Do you speak French?" "Dude why would I need to speak French? Paris is in London."

Do not try to figure that out. You WILL lose ~1.7 million brain cells.

[arvidez]

white resentment is different than brown resentment? racism means so much to the rich whites. their survivor guilt must be tremendous. i am glad i am poor and brown. neoracism is boring.

[Ooloo]

I don't think that's white resentment. Asians are disadvantaged in college admissions because otherwise they'd be way way way overrepresented; it's the flip side of affirmative action and it is why Asians tend to be right there alongside Whites in opposing affirmative action. There was a controversy in my home state of California with the UC system where Asians were being disadvantaged because they were finding the academic requirements for an Asian person to get into an elite UC far exceeded other races. Harvard wants a diverse student body, not made up of whatever groups happen to be the most successful at gaming the admissions criteria.

Footnote, I did by bachelors at UC Irvine which was at the time 48% Asian lol. Had some really good fucking Smash and DotA tournaments

That's completely insane. Asians are not "overrepresented" in anything unless you have some boneheaded idea that the percentage of people at a given college or in a given job should exactly 1:1 match their percentage of the population. What the fuck does "gaming the admissions criteria" mean? Doing good on tests, cause you studied and worked hard? Like seriously wtf?

You also aren't helping black or latino people succeed in life by just lazily booting them into a college they aren't academically prepared to enter. They often end up failing and dropping out (with a mountain of debt), while they would have graduated with honors and also gotten a perfectly good education at a less selective school.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions" is an expression for a reason.

[Trexller]

maybe all white people are just idiots

[Nibblewitz]

Diversity of race but no diversity of opinion.

[Botten]

You also aren't helping black or latino people succeed in life by just lazily booting them into a college they aren't academically prepared to enter. They often end up failing and dropping out (with a mountain of debt), while they would have graduated with honors and also gotten a perfectly good education at a less selective school.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions" is an expression for a reason.

Look at you being all racist.

Assuming races get forcibly put into Ivy League schools and don’t apply. That you assume they can’t manage or get scholarships for.

Hats off for showing your true self.

[arvidez]

Look at you being all racist.

Assuming races get forcibly put into Ivy League schools and don’t apply. That you assume they can’t manage or get scholarships for.

Hats off for showing your true self.

he isnt being racist, he is repeating thomas sowell

[arvidez]

he isnt being racist, he is repeating thomas sowell

ineloquently

[GinnasP99]

When it comes to politics, I 100% agree, with you.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

he isnt being racist, he is repeating anthony sowell

that's sick

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Question 1:

What is the solution to the number of colored shapes required to fill up a space, so that every shape is adjacent to at least one of every other color of shape in the space, where the number of colors in this space = X, where X equals any number greater than 11.

How many additional dimensions are required for the least number of shapes, given Question 1.

[aussenseiter]

Question 1:

What is the solution to the number of colored shapes required to fill up a space, so that every shape is adjacent to at least one of every other color of shape in the space, where the number of colors in this space = X, where X equals any number greater than 11.

How many additional dimensions are required for the least number of shapes, given Question 1.

It doesn't go to 11.

That's the gag, right?

[Ekco]

he isnt being racist, he is repeating thomas sowell

that dude is pretty based.

“When people get used to preferential treatment, equal treatment seems like discrimination.”
― Thomas Sowell

[Botten]

Sowell is better at rhetorical flourish than thoughtful empirical analysis or philosophical consistency.

[Crepido]

how about everyone takes the same test, and if you score x or higher, you get to go to that school. explain why that is racist?

[unsunghero]

how about everyone takes the same test, and if you score x or higher, you get to go to that school. explain why that is racist?

If all races don’t score the same then the setup isn’t fair

And we can’t make life fair because that’s not how life goes, but we can sure as hell positively-discriminate to try

[Botten]

how about everyone takes the same test, and if you score x or higher, you get to go to that school. explain why that is racist?

How about those less pronounced members of a race that statistically receive less education due to demographics and finances don't have their chances at entering an Ivy League School diminished.

The ruling only gives a privileged family with money more wiggle room to get their space without needing to worry if the school met the correct metrics in diversity.

In this case money is power. With out checks power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Anyone saying the GOP party isn't the party of the rich is fooling themselves.

[Ekco]

I'm all for equality, equity is bullshit though and you should find your own fucking box.

https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.Rkb8NqUK8M6hkk5JKM_YzQAAAA?pid=ImgDet&rs=1

[Ekco]

Anyone saying the GOP party isn't the party of the rich is fooling themselves.

Democrats have been the party of ivory tower elitists ever since Clinton passed NAFTA in the 90s other than the Teacher and Police union they haven't fought for the working class in decades.

i'd rather vote for team "doesn't give a fuck about you" over team "literally hates your white male guts, also here's a 300 dollar a month tax cause you're a 20 something yr old loser working a shit job without health insurance and it's the law now because of Obamacare."

[druidbob]

Democrats have been the party of ivory tower elitists ever since Clinton passed NAFTA in the 90s other than the Teacher and Police union they haven't fought for the working class in decades.

i'd rather vote for team "doesn't give a fuck about you" over team "literally hates your white male guts, also here's a 300 dollar a month tax cause you're a 20 something yr old loser working a shit job without health insurance and it's the law now because of Obamacare."

Hates democrats for being ivory tower elitists, proceeds to vote for (checks notes) Donald Trump, a man who literally lives in a tower with his name on the front...

[Ekco]

i haven't voted since i thought Obama would legalize weed.

i'd vote for him over Biden and Kamala though if it was actually competitive where i live, on the drug war issue alone... She put over 1,500 people in jail for marijuana violations and then laughed about it when she was asked if she ever smoked marijuana and Biden voted for a literal racist bill that classifies crack cocaine differently than powder back in 1986. Biden is only a decent choice if you delude yourself into thinking Trump is actually Hitler.

[Evia]

I only know of one president who forced mandates. That's closer to hi.tler than anything trump ever did.

[Lune]

I'm all for equality, equity is bullshit though and you should find your own fucking box.

https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.Rkb8NqUK8M6hkk5JKM_YzQAAAA?pid=ImgDet&rs=1

It's not really talking about giving people boxes, it's talking about equality of opportunity. Someone born with 10 boxes should have the same shot as someone born with zero boxes. You would know this if you paid attention in school. Really makes me feel like the whole MAGA anti-education thing is just cope for ignorance.

Some of us are born on third base and judge the people born with nothing through the lens of our own advantages.

[Ekco]

It's not really talking about giving people boxes, it's talking about equality of opportunity. Someone born with 10 boxes should have the same shot as someone born with zero boxes. You would know this if you paid attention in school. Really makes me feel like the whole MAGA anti-education thing is just cope for ignorance.

Some of us are born on third base and judge the people born with nothing through the lens of our own advantages.

that's about a decade behind now, that's the joke. it's not about equality of opportunities. it's about equal outcomes. equity. that's what diversity quotas literally are.

literally all progressives are arguing equality isn't good enough. aka we need the "right" kind of racism to create the perfect utopia.

[aussenseiter]

It's not really talking about giving people boxes, it's talking about equality of opportunity. Someone born with 10 boxes should have the same shot as someone born with zero boxes. You would know this if you paid attention in school. Really makes me feel like the whole MAGA anti-education thing is just cope for ignorance.

Some of us are born on third base and judge the people born with nothing through the lens of our own advantages.

https://i.imgur.com/ySEUfni.png

Anyway why should I know that? It seems like your opinion.

[Ekco]

all three should be arrested for not buying tickets to the game.

[Origen]

Oh no, Karen is gonna speak with the manager!

[unsunghero]

It's not really talking about giving people boxes, it's talking about equality of opportunity. Someone born with 10 boxes should have the same shot as someone born with zero boxes. You would know this if you paid attention in school. Really makes me feel like the whole MAGA anti-education thing is just cope for ignorance.

Some of us are born on third base and judge the people born with nothing through the lens of our own advantages.

It’s easy to point out how things aren’t fair, it’s harder to even them up without doing something unethical, like stealing someone else’s boxes

Just because life wasn’t fair to someone, it’s also not fair to perpetuate that with theft, or discrimination. If there aren’t enough of a particular race in a position, the fair thing is to target that race when they are young and make them better equipped to earn that position fairly, not lowering their particular qualifications on positions with limited numbers

But that’s too hard to do, isn’t it? So instead let’s just steal someone else’s money to re-distribute it or discriminate when we hire

Hey if we can do any wrong thing, why not just take all the rich people’s stuff? We’re already willing to be unethical

[unsunghero]

that's about a decade behind now, that's the joke. it's not about equality of opportunities. it's about equal outcomes. equity. that's what diversity quotas literally are.

literally all progressives are arguing equality isn't good enough. aka we need the "right" kind of racism to create the perfect utopia.

It’s “the end justifies the means” thinking

As long as our cause is righteous, it doesn’t matter what unethical stuff we have to do to get there

[Lune]

all three should be arrested for not buying tickets to the game.

True lol

Although it's an image macro meant to represent a larger idea you typically learn in 1st year university gen ed humanities, along with the sociological data that underpins it. We know the circumstances of your birth predict the course of your life with an outrageous level of statistical strength. Bootstrappers focus on the exceptions and, retardedly, try to build policy around that. Corporations love it. There is a reason life in European and commonwealth countries surpasses life in the US in every sense imaginable except military strength and aggregate wealth held by billionaires.

Every man for himself is what we did from 2million BC to 1215AD and it sucked

Just be brave enough to admit you view society as "Us" and "Others", "Us" for most MAGA's meaning white people like you, and then everyone else. You have no problem helping "Us" because most MAGA's are okay with it as long as it is "voluntary", ie, through a church or a charity, which basically also means only helping people like you. Even though federal government is the same type of social contract at a larger scale, which for neo-confederates, also means you have to listen to those stupid liberals' input.

Statistically and at an aggregate scale, a white applicant likely had every advantage in the world compared to the black applicant. In cases where that wasn't true, adcom's had the ability to detect it, such as looking at the school you went to or other markers. I'm not saying affirmative action was the right choice, I really don't know, I'm talking about equality of opportunity as a concept.

[unsunghero]

. You have no problem helping "Us" because most MAGA's are okay with it as long as it is "voluntary", ie, through a church or a charity, which basically also means only helping people like you

To my knowledge Christian churches in my area mostly help the homeless

I wouldn’t call those people remotely like the church goers. They are hard-drug using, mentally ill, often minorities. Sometimes some of the older church goers in my church mention being uncomfortable going to church due to a slew of homeless people outside for some particular charity the church is running. And that’s a valid thought. Most should be harmless, but you never know if someone decided to shoot a little too much meth and wants to haul off and sucker punch an 80yr old church lady in the face

[Lune]

TSometimes some of the older church goers in my church mention being uncomfortable going to church due to a slew of homeless people outside for some particular charity the church is running.

lmao if they are Christian, that is not a valid thought, that is the underpinning of their religion that has been lost in translation somewhere between Cenodoxus and Boomer Jesus

[aussenseiter]

True lol

Although it's an image macro meant to represent a larger idea you typically learn in 1st year university gen ed humanities, along with the sociological data that underpins it. We know the circumstances of your birth predict the course of your life with an outrageous level of statistical strength. Bootstrappers focus on the exceptions and, retardedly, try to build policy around that. Corporations love it. There is a reason life in European and commonwealth countries surpasses life in the US in every sense imaginable except military strength and aggregate wealth held by billionaires.

Every man for himself is what we did from 2million BC to 1215AD and it sucked

Just be brave enough to admit you view society as "Us" and "Others", "Us" for most MAGA's meaning white people like you, and then everyone else. You have no problem helping "Us" because most MAGA's are okay with it as long as it is "voluntary", ie, through a church or a charity, which basically also means only helping people like you. Even though federal government is the same type of social contract at a larger scale, which for neo-confederates, also means you have to listen to those stupid liberals' input.

Statistically and at an aggregate scale, a white applicant likely had every advantage in the world compared to the black applicant. In cases where that wasn't true, adcom's had the ability to detect it, such as looking at the school you went to or other markers. I'm not saying affirmative action was the right choice, I really don't know, I'm talking about equality of opportunity as a concept.

Did you go to a bad school?

[unsunghero]

lmao if they are Christian, that is not a valid thought, that is the underpinning of their religion that has been lost in translation somewhere between Cenodoxus and Boomer Jesus

I don’t follow the history of Christianity, but the homeless of old are nothing like the modern homeless because of one reason: DRUGS

[Lune]

Did you go to a bad school?

I know you'll interpret any answer to that question as yes so I'll just say I did undergrad from 2006-2009, and they were just starting to teach a bunch of bullshit like cultural relativism, but they hadn't started the harshly regimented woke shit yet. The thing is, it's university, if you can't parse information that's being presented to you, you don't belong there. A lot of people don't belong there. The big issue at the time was Israel vs. Palestine and George Bush, more than anything

[unsunghero]

I say, since the left has given up on actually fixing the black community and instead opts for unethical methods like discrimination and wealth re-distribution, why do we have some arbitrary point where we pat ourselves on the back and say “well this method is kind of bad, but it’s not that bad”

Why not just make a lottery that randomly selects a rich family. Kill them, and replace their lives with a randomly-selected poor minority family. The other family takes over their jobs and takes all their assets

Let’s just skip to the end of this slope

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

It doesn't go to 11.

That's the gag, right?

Likely no finite solution set. Especially if you allow for non-conventional geometries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_color_theorem


I barely even understand what mathematicians do. I sound waaaaaay more knowledgeable on this front than I am. Way more.

These folks always just baffle me. But!

Hey! If you can get baffled, that means you at least get a part of it!

[aussenseiter]

I know you'll interpret any answer to that question as yes so I'll just say I did undergrad from 2006-2009, and they were just starting to teach a bunch of bullshit like cultural relativism, but they hadn't started the harshly regimented woke shit yet. The thing is, it's university, if you can't parse information that's being presented to you, you don't belong there. A lot of people don't belong there. The big issue at the time was Israel vs. Palestine and George Bush, more than anything

I'll ask a different way.

Did you intentionally choose a school of lesser quality so that a POC could have your spot at a better one?

Should you have?

[Origen]

I say, since the left has given up on actually fixing the black community and instead opts for unethical methods like discrimination and wealth re-distribution, why do we have some arbitrary point where we pat ourselves on the back and say “well this method is kind of bad, but it’s not that bad”

Why not just make a lottery that randomly selects a rich family. Kill them, and replace their lives with a randomly-selected poor minority family. The other family takes over their jobs and takes all their assets

Let’s just skip to the end of this slopeYou're mistaking the right for the left again

The right does nothing for anyone who isn't already rich, both parties in America are right-wing, and complaining that the non-existant left didn't fix this problem the right has created just shows how amazingly effective the misinformation diet you subsist on works

[unsunghero]

You're mistaking the right for the left again

The right does nothing for anyone who isn't already rich, both parties in America are right-wing, and complaining that the non-existant left didn't fix this problem the right has created just shows how amazingly effective the misinformation diet you subsist on works

I never said our way was best, and yea you are correct the right tries less things

That still doesn’t change the fact that the end justifies the means thinking to utilize unethical methods is wrong. You’re just making excuses for it

[Lune]

You're mistaking the right for the left again

The right does nothing for anyone who isn't already rich, both parties in America are right-wing, and complaining that the non-existant left didn't fix this problem the right has created just shows how amazingly effective the misinformation diet you subsist on works

It's hilarious and sad how hard Trump caused high earning middle class folks to get ass-rammed on their taxes

[unsunghero]

I already said the better thing to do is to improve the education within the poor minority communities so the kids and young adults are better equipped to earn their positions fairly

But there’s an inconvenient truth here: it doesn’t matter how much money you throw at a school or how you train particular staff if the parents aren’t instilling values of actually valuing school in their children like Asian parents, even poor Asian parents, seem to do

[Origen]

I never said our way was best, and yea you are correct the right tries less things

That still doesn’t change the fact that the end justifies the means thinking to utilize unethical methods is wrong. You’re just making excuses for itI'm not sure what it is you think I am supporting here for which I'd feel the need to make excuses. I don't defend the right except as it pertains to January 6th

[Origen]

It's hilarious and sad how hard Trump caused high earning middle class folks to get ass-rammed on their taxesIt'll be even funnier and sadder if they campaign on raising the voting age AND the retirement age

Especially if it fuckin' works

[Nibblewitz]

There's also this huge question looming over American politics: What is the role of the federal government?

The right tries less because they think the government should be more limited. The left disagrees.

This debate on student loan repayment highlights a K-12 education system that struggles to keep pace with the rest of the developed world and a secondary education system that is patently unaffordable to most because the universities are banking on the government paying their bills.

[Origen]

If the right was serious about limiting the role of the federal government they'd entertain spending cuts in the defense budget, so let's just put the "small government" horse shit to pasture right now

[aussenseiter]

It'll be even funnier and sadder if they campaign on raising the voting age

That would require a convention.

[unsunghero]

There's also this huge question looming over American politics: What is the role of the federal government?

The right tries less because they think the government should be more limited. The left disagrees.

This debate on student loan repayment highlights a K-12 education system that struggles to keep pace with the rest of the developed world and a secondary education system that is patently unaffordable to most because the universities are banking on the government paying their bills.

Just by not placing blame completely on external forces you change the entire dynamic of something, sometimes in a big way

If I need to lose weight, and all the government does is remind me about all the things working against me to lose weight, then all that does is get me really good at listing and explaining all the reasons I can’t lose weight

I’m not saying the government shouldn’t acknowledge that these setbacks to poor minorities exist. But constantly harping about them causes the communities they affect to become disempowered and, as in the weight loss example, get really good at listing the reasons why it’s pointless to try

[Origen]

That would require a convention.They were talking about overturning Roe v Wade for decades, lied about it repeatedly, and then did it anyways. I think it's clear they have outmanuevered the clueless Democrats over and over when it comes to this shit.

Don't put that past them. Hell, they might hold it in Georgia, if memory serves, I might get directly involved if I'm still alive at the time!

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

How many here actually live in a poor, drug-plagued, Black majority area?

You fucking poseurs. Talking about "their" problems. More crackers on fentanyl than Blacks.

An American is someone that is convinced the problem lies elsewhere.

And the folks who do the Jesus Shuffle here are so illiterate they do not even grok what verse I just alluded to.

I can handle crazy. I can't handle dumb.

[Nibblewitz]

Of course, the only way to secure the vote is to say you're going to lower taxes AND increase spending.

If the power and scope of the federal government was constrained, the incentives for lobbying would be reduced.

[Origen]

How many here actually live in a poor, drug-plagued, Black majority area?Me, I do. This is the kind of county where I stand out because I have all of my original teeth in my mouth

[aussenseiter]

They were talking about overturning Roe v Wade for decades, lied about it repeatedly, and then did it anyways. I think it's clear they have outmanuevered the clueless Democrats over and over when it comes to this shit.

Don't put that past them. Hell, they might hold it in Georgia, if memory serves, I might get directly involved if I'm still alive at the time!

I thought about it and repealing the 26th Amendment sounds like a fine idea. 🫡🇺🇲

[Elizondo]

How many here actually live in a poor, drug-plagued, Black majority area?

Me, I do. This is the kind of county where I stand out because I have all of my original teeth in my mouth

[Origen]

Yeah we know the south frightens you, Elizondo, let me know when you gain the balls or income to leave California

[Nibblewitz]

"Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted."

-Vladmir Lenin

[Elizondo]

Yeah we know the south frightens you, Elizondo, let me know when you gain the balls or income to leave California

You keep digging the hole deeper and deeper with each post

Carry on

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Me, I do. This is the kind of county where I stand out because I have all of my original teeth in my mouth

Then you know, the military has a name for when, during bad suck, the rule of the day, every damn day, is FUBAR.

I know some survivors, some people who hold steady. Those people are like magicians to me. I'm an old white dude who, since I wuz raised in Long Island NY and NOT THE NORTH FUCKING SHORE, has always been around the whole mix. But, guess what. You think I ever got busted for shoplifting? And you want to bet it was because I *knew* how to look "right"?

That's all spilt milk under the bridge. Now I'm in the countryside, cuz cheep.

The nearest I can tell the police treat the "poor" half of town (I live right above it... come on, man, I'm old) as an inmate farm. They bust em, bail em, probation them, and then, bust for prob violation which is the money shot sentence wise.

Is it the police the problem? Fuckin police think they are in Fallujah an hour drive from Amish land, fucking pussies.

I'm gonna say a simple word here that has caused literally millions of idiots to make fools of themselves over the past few years.

The problems are not really "personal". They are structural.

Word of the day: structural. It means: nothing to do with you *or anyone* personally at all, one single bit.

Unless you decide to deny it. Or decide to maybe fix it some.

[Origen]

So how deep is the hole now, in terms of depth?

[Elizondo]

So how deep is the hole now, in terms of depth?

Well considering you endlessly call everyone a racist 24/7 (on whatever current burner account you're using) I'd say it's deeper and wider than the grand canyon

hth

[Origen]

Word of the day: structural. It means: nothing to do with you *or anyone* personally at all, one single bit.

Unless you decide to deny it. Or decide to maybe fix it some.What if I do structural criticism with a dash of personal attacks? Maybe a peppering of obvious mental illness?

Self-awareness is important, as is honesty that doesn't put one in danger

[Origen]

Well considering you endlessly call everyone a racist 24/7 (on whatever current burner account you're using) I'd say it's deeper and wider than the grand canyon

hthOh no, it sounds serious! This will totally stop me from calling racists racists, that's how I got you to stop talking about the 2020 election, after all

You'd made a great psychologist if it wasn't for that pesky farm life

[unsunghero]

Is it the police the problem? Fuckin police think they are in Fallujah an hour drive from Amish land, fucking pussies.



If the riots in France are any indication, anti-police hatred isn’t an America problem

I wonder, what developed country absolutely loves their police? I certainly haven’t heard of it. Seems like police are set up to fail

What I don’t think Dems realize is that by vilifying police they make people not want to be police officers, which creates staffing shortages which see everywhere, which creates looser hiring qualifications, which creates more shitty cops. So hating on police is a death spiral leading to shittier police

Poverty breeds crime and crime breeds poverty. Police are always going to be more active in areas with more crime, which are poor areas. No surprise this is the case for every first world country, none of which seems to outwardly like their police

[Origen]

It's just the "starve the beast" strategy.

Try solving the poverty itself, even a Republican who does so gets called a socialist. That's why the John Birch people called Eisenhower a commie

[Elizondo]

This will totally stop me from calling racists racists

22203

[aussenseiter]

Then you know, the military has a name for when, during bad suck, the rule of the day, every damn day, is FUBAR.

I know some survivors, some people who hold steady. Those people are like magicians to me. I'm an old white dude who, since I wuz raised in Long Island NY and NOT THE NORTH FUCKING SHORE, has always been around the whole mix. But, guess what. You think I ever got busted for shoplifting? And you want to bet it was because I *knew* how to look "right"?

That's all spilt milk under the bridge. Now I'm in the countryside, cuz cheep.

The nearest I can tell the police treat the "poor" half of town (I live right above it... come on, man, I'm old) as an inmate farm. They bust em, bail em, probation them, and then, bust for prob violation which is the money shot sentence wise.

Is it the police the problem? Fuckin police think they are in Fallujah an hour drive from Amish land, fucking pussies.

I'm gonna say a simple word here that has caused literally millions of idiots to make fools of themselves over the past few years.

The problems are not really "personal". They are structural.

Word of the day: structural. It means: nothing to do with you *or anyone* personally at all, one single bit.

Unless you decide to deny it. Or decide to maybe fix it some.

A lot of people will choose to deny the problem if you tell them they are who must suffer to fix it.

#YOLO

[unsunghero]

It's just the "starve the beast" strategy.

Try solving the poverty itself, even a Republican who does so gets called a socialist. That's why the John Birch people called Eisenhower a commie

You and your wife wouldn’t be too happy if the medical field spontaneously used focusing on solving the “root causes” of cancer rather than treating people who have cancer right now

Police are a right now solution to crime. This fantasy idea of solving poverty with our infinite resource generator is a years-down-the road solution, if that

Any sane person should also always fear crime more than police. Crime can get really fucking brutal when we are talking gang violence

[Origen]

No, we wouldn't, but oncologists aren't killing minorities in disproportionate numbers and suffering zero consequences when they do

Oncologists aren't working hand in hand with real estate interests to crush the poor and homeless with bipartisan support

I am not opposed to the existence of police, but I would very much like to disarm them and distribute their too-numerous roles into a more manageable set of expectations. You know, reform.

[unsunghero]

No, we wouldn't, but oncologists aren't killing minorities in disproportionate numbers and suffering zero consequences when they do

Oncologists aren't working hand in hand with real estate interests to crush the poor and homeless with bipartisan support

I am not opposed to the existence of police, but I would very much like to disarm them and distribute their too-numerous roles into a more manageable set of expectations. You know, reform.

What you call reform I call better training

That requires strict qualifications for the quality of professional who can handle this difficult and rigorous training. This means not hamstringing their ability to hire and train the right people

This is all very simple

[Origen]

So, once again, more of the same? Despite the brief murmurs of "defund the police", police budgets still went up nationally almost everywhere?

Look for articles on the APD, GSP, and the Atlanta Forest Defenders.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but I do not think it is so simple

[unsunghero]

So, once again, more of the same? Despite the brief murmurs of "defund the police", police budgets still went up nationally almost everywhere?

Look for articles on the APD, GSP, and the Atlanta Forest Defenders.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but I do not think it is so simple

Fucking up on the job in an obvious police-brutality type of way, whether intentional or not, is either a training issue, or it is a hiring issue

It doesn’t matter what the service is, want companies/agencies/etc to hire people that not only can perform their job ethically and legally, but also not get burnt out with all the negative on the job behaviors that come with that

[aussenseiter]

So, once again, more of the same? Despite the brief murmurs of "defund the police", police budgets still went up nationally almost everywhere?

Look for articles on the APD, GSP, and the Atlanta Forest Defenders.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but I do not think it is so simple

How else can we maintain those good-paying union jobs?

Gotta keep up with inflation to stay where you're at.

e: Sadre evaluate this conspiracy theory. Someone was tricked.

[Ooloo]

No, we wouldn't, but oncologists aren't killing minorities in disproportionate numbers and suffering zero consequences when they do

Oncologists aren't working hand in hand with real estate interests to crush the poor and homeless with bipartisan support

I am not opposed to the existence of police, but I would very much like to disarm them and distribute their too-numerous roles into a more manageable set of expectations. You know, reform.

Chauvin is currently probably getting raped in prison for "murdering" a black guy, even though he was actually just employing a tactic that his particular department had approved of. But he's white and floyd was black so hey it must be racisms!

Some minority groups commit more crime than others, so they naturally are over represented in prisons. Asians being an exception; they actually commit less crime than white people, and hey look at that- there are fewer asians in jail per-capita than whites! Disparities in incarceration rates don't just automatically mean racism, but that's the kind of moronic conclusion you can come to when you just guzzle leftist koolaid all day.

Most poor black people *don't* commit crime, so I don't want to hear blatant excuse-making for those that do.

[Origen]

Men commit most violent crime. Let's double the penalties of all male convicted offenders

[unsunghero]

Men commit most violent crime. Let's double the penalties of all male convicted offenders

Fine with that. Harsh consequences are an effective deterrent, which is their main purpose

Not committing felonies isn’t rocket science. The vast majority of the population, including the very poorest, have it figured out

[Ooloo]

Men commit most violent crime. Let's double the penalties of all male convicted offenders

If you're suggesting black people get higher penalties than white people that's again total bullshit.

For a black *first time* offender and a white *first time* offender, in the same jurisdiction, for the same crime, the penalties are statistically identical.

[Trexller]

uj0mtxXEGE8

[aussenseiter]

Men commit most violent crime. Let's double the penalties of all male convicted offenders

Unforced error here.

[Nibblewitz]

Could it be that the sexes aren’t equal? Perish the thought!

[Trexller]

males always receive a harsher sentence than females for the exact same crime

don't even mention divorce court

funny how in the age of "equity" nobody ever bitches about the ways that dudes get fucked over

[Elizondo]

Unforced error here.

Death Penalty convictions ect. ect.

[loramin]

Fine with that. Harsh consequences are an effective deterrent, which is their main purpose

In what alternate universe?

Study after study has shown harsher sentences don't deter crime:

“Deterrence is very largely an article of faith,” says UNSW Law Emeritus Professor David Brown. “I call it sentencing’s dirty secret because it’s just assumed that there is deterrence … but what the research shows is that the system has little to no deterrent effect.”

It's very, very simple: let's say you're thinking of killing someone. Do you stop and think "well, in some other state murder is a ten year sentence, but in my state it's twenty years, so I better not murder this guy?" No, you either think "I'm not going to get caught, so it doesn't matter", or you're acting in a fit of rage (and not thinking at all).

Harsher penalties are good for exactly one thing: making victims feel better ... and not by much. If your mom gets murdered, do you really think you're going to feel much better when the guy who murdered your family member gets 20 years instead of 10?

[unsunghero]

In what alternate universe?

Study after study has shown harsher sentences don't deter crime:



It's very, very simple: let's say you're thinking of killing someone. Do you stop and think "well, in some other state murder is a ten year sentence, but in my state it's twenty years, so I better not murder this guy?" No, you either think "I'm not going to get caught, so it doesn't matter", or you're acting in a fit of rage (and not thinking at all).

Harsher penalties are good for exactly one thing: making victims feel better ... and not by much. If your mom gets murdered, do you really think you're going to feel much better when the guy who murdered your family member gets 20 years instead of 10?

Are you kidding? I really don’t care what cherry-picked studies you can find, the difference of giving away 10 additional years of your life is monumental. How about you go sit in a box for 10 years and tell me how easy it would be to do another 10

Ridiculous argument

[Ooloo]

Guys lets just not have laws cause they don't do anything. Studies have shown it!!

Here's a study: I don't commit crime cause I don't want to go to jail. End of study.

[unsunghero]

The difference between giving away 10 years of your life, especially as a younger offender, versus like 20-30 years, is beyond words better. Not to mention for middle aged offenders, the idea of giving away the best decades of your life to a complete shithole prison, and getting out at the nice old age, is just as bad mentally on someone as doing a few years?

Is anyone really trying to make this argument?

[Ooloo]

The difference between giving away 10 years of your life, especially as a younger offender, versus like 20-30 years, is beyond words better. Not to mention for middle aged offenders, the idea of giving away the best decades of your life to a complete shithole prison, and getting out at the nice old age, is just as bad mentally on someone as doing a few years?

Is anyone really trying to make this argument?

Well see there's a study, so... that means its true. It also means there totally aren't other studies that directly contradict it.

It's just laughably absurd. If the penalty for jaywalking was 30 years in prison instead of a stern talking-to, would there be more or less jaywalking? Apparently it would make absolutely no difference to jaywalking rates, because of the magic study!

This is the danger of venerating every generic academic; some of them are really stupid, and the methodology of their studies is dogshit and they set out with a particular conclusion in mind that they're searching for from the get-go. That's not science. But it sounds sciency enough to convince people.

[unsunghero]

Well see there's a study, so... that means its true. It also means there totally aren't other studies that directly contradict it.

It's just laughably absurd. If the penalty for jaywalking was 30 years in prison instead of a stern talking-to, would there be more or less jaywalking? Apparently it would make absolutely no difference to jaywalking rates, because of the magic study!

This is the danger of venerating every generic academic; some of them are really stupid, and the methodology of their studies is dogshit and they set out with a particular conclusion in mind that they're searching for from the get-go. That's not science. But it sounds sciency enough to convince people.

The legal system gives millions and millions of dollars to people who give decades of their life for wrongful imprisonment. If we are going to attach a dollar value for how bad it is to give away the entire time when your body is in the prime of its life in a complete shithole

[Ooloo]

I also don't understand how you can even measure such a thing, really.

Like, a guy murders somebody. Okay. That's not evidence that deterrence doesn't work, it's just evidence it didn't work for that specific guy. How are you supposed to measure all the other hypothetical people who *would* have murdered but didn't because of the harsh penalties? The conclusion that deterrence doesn't work seems fundamentally unfalsifiable and therefor useless for drafting policy.

It reminds me a lot of the arguments against drug prohibition. It's always some variation of "there are laws against it and people do it anyway, therefor the laws don't stop it!". And it's like, go check the stats on drug abuse in Singapore. Pretty sure deterrence works.

[Nibblewitz]

As the price of something rises, the quantity demanded decreases. Raise the price of crime to reduce crime.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

"Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted."

-Vladmir Lenin

Is quoting Lenin still a power move? The entire "This is what a revolution will look like" lore of your average sensible in-era revolutionary still sounds like something out of Jules Verne's discarded romans à clef.

And if that isn't bad enough we have of late been reminded that Russia, much like Carthage, must be destroyed.

Muscovia delendam est

Well, this is literally a case of, "as the old saying goes." History might not make sense but it rhymes like Busta.

[unsunghero]

Saddest scene in Shawshank is a good explanation of what it must feel like to give your life to prison and get out at the tail end

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tiG3HziMjWI

[Lune]

As the price of something rises, the quantity demanded decreases. Raise the price of crime to reduce crime.

It doesn't work that way unfortunately, and that's not just me bullshitting it's borne out by criminologists; criminals tend not to be the most rational actors. In fact, it does the exact opposite. Being in prison longer more extensively destabilizes lives and further indoctrinates into criminality.

Even the corrections union, JSTOR (journal of a bunch of lawyers), and Federal Office of Justice Programs (corrections oversight) say this

[unsunghero]

It doesn't work that way unfortunately, and that's not just me bullshitting it's borne out by criminologists; criminals tend not to be the most rational actors. In fact, it does the exact opposite. Being in prison longer more extensively destabilizes lives and further indoctrinates into criminality.

How do we measure the people who were deterred by the penalty from attempting in the first place. How do they report this on surveys? They go fill out some survey saying they were thinking about x crime but changed their mind because of the penalty?

Looks like your studies are cherry picking re-offenders. Longer sentences also deter offending by keeping the person away from the public for longer, do they not?

[aussenseiter]

It doesn't work that way unfortunately, and that's not just me bullshitting it's borne out by criminologists; criminals tend not to be the most rational actors. In fact, it does the exact opposite. Being in prison longer more extensively destabilizes lives and further indoctrinates into criminality.

Even the corrections union, JSTOR (journal of a bunch of lawyers), and Federal Office of Justice Programs (corrections oversight) say this

Could you think of any reason they would say that other than it being the God's honest truth?

Prisons are expensive.

Now you try!

[Origen]

Unforced error here.Not my precious scorecard! The opinions of fascists and those that enable them in pretend intellectual discussions are very important to me

[Lune]

How do we measure the people who were deterred by the penalty from attempting in the first place. How do they report this on surveys? They go fill out some survey saying they were thinking about x crime but changed their mind because of the penalty?

Looks like your studies are cherry picking re-offenders.

The same way they study pretty much anything involving human health or behavior; by looking at recidivism rates between jurisdictions and controlling for variables to isolate cause and effect to a meaningful p value and effect size.

We know crime rates in the 80's went bananas before declining again but we don't really know why. Some jurisdictions went 'tough on crime', others didn't, even within the same city (overlapping sheriff and PD jurisdictions for example, or Los Angeles vs. Long Beach, Dallas vs. Fort Worth). They collated all this data and controlled for things like demographics, poverty, national and local overall crime trends, and looked at recidivism rates for different policies. They compared to similar jurisdictions to control for naturally changing crime rates. Jurisdictions with longer sentences either saw no significant change or an increase in crime, overall.

Longer sentences also deter offending by keeping the person away from the public for longer, do they not?

They absolutely do, this is called incapacitation (vs. deterrence) and it does reduce crime in the short term, but is counteracted to an extent by increased crime from the long sentences in criminal academy.

You're keeping people off the streets where they can't commit crimes against the public, but you're also taking someone who maybe could have been redirected and fucking them up, as well as putting a bunch of other criminals in their lives. Then think of the determinism of your life and consider how things might have been different for you if you spent your late teens and early 20's hanging out with a bunch of drug dealers, burglars, and muggers for literally years on end day after day. Also you probably already feel like you fucked up your life. Then compare this to moving somebody out of the situation they were in when they committed the crime, but getting them back out before their life is completely fucked and they grew up in prison.

Tony Soprano isn't like "oh shit they're RICOing us bedda stop mobbin'"

[aussenseiter]

The same way they study pretty much anything involving human health or behavior; by looking at recidivism rates between jurisdictions and controlling for variables to isolate cause and effect to a meaningful p value and effect size.

We know crime rates in the 80's went bananas before declining again but we don't really know why. Some jurisdictions went 'tough on crime', others didn't, even within the same city (overlapping sheriff and PD jurisdictions for example, or Los Angeles vs. Long Beach, Dallas vs. Fort Worth). They collated all this data and controlled for things like demographics, poverty, national and local overall crime trends, and looked at recidivism rates for different policies. They compared to similar jurisdictions to control for naturally changing crime rates. Jurisdictions with longer sentences either saw no significant change or an increase in crime, overall.



Malleated data of the seventh order. Why do you trust the conclusion?

[aussenseiter]

Not my precious scorecard! The opinions of fascists and those that enable them in pretend intellectual discussions are very important to me

Buddy they're gonna say the same thing you did but about a different cohort of offenders.

And you've already given your rational approval for the concept.

Suck less.

[Lune]

Malleated data of the seventh order. Why do you trust the conclusion?

It's the same data that goes into what kind of interventions they give you at the hospital, where they've improved treatment for countless things hundredfold for some conditions. Down to which anticoagulants work best for each race.

And I guarantee you're hopping on that ambulance when your heart starts dying. Data scientists use the exact same methods. These methods have even become central in theoretical physics, chemistry, engineering when dealing with chaotic and complex systems.

[aussenseiter]

It's the same data that goes into what kind of interventions they give you at the hospital, where they've improved treatment for countless things hundredfold for some conditions. Down to which anticoagulants work best for each race.

And physiology is the same as psychology why?

[Lune]

And physiology is the same as psychology why?

It's not physiology Dr. Zaius, it's pharmacology, surgery, oncology, internal medicine, etc. These fields where they've become exponentially more effective at treating most conditions over the past 30 years even. The way these fields choose the best intervention is to find statistical significance, effect size, positive and negative likelihood ratios, just like public policy interventions.

It's the only way you prove eliquis is better than warfarin as well as evidence-based sentences better than emotional sentencing.

[loramin]

Tony Soprano isn't like "oh shit they're RICOing us bedda stop mobbin'"

Eloquently stated.

[aussenseiter]

It's not physiology Dr. Zaius, it's pharmacology, surgery, oncology, internal medicine, etc. These fields where they've become exponentially more effective at treating most conditions over the past 30 years even. The way these fields choose the best intervention is to find statistical significance, effect size, positive and negative likelihood ratios, just like public policy interventions.

It's the only way you prove eliquis is better than warfarin as well as reasonable sentences better than long term sentencing.

You didn't answer the why part? 🤪

Baseball taught me that every analytics guy should be beaten regularly and severely.

[loramin]

The difference between giving away 10 years of your life, especially as a younger offender, versus like 20-30 years, is beyond words better. Not to mention for middle aged offenders, the idea of giving away the best decades of your life to a complete shithole prison, and getting out at the nice old age, is just as bad mentally on someone as doing a few years?

Is anyone really trying to make this argument?

Right, you're saying that as a rational adult, assuming you're going to get caught. But criminals don't think that way.

I used to shoplift as a kid. Now, if we had the death penalty for shoplifting or something, that might have stopped me. Otherwise though, I was going to shoplift without even knowing the exact consequences of getting caught, because I didn't think I was going to get caught.

And again, for more serious crimes like murder ... if someone is considering murdering another person, they're not thinking very much about the number of years in their sentence if they get caught: that's just human nature.

[Lune]

You didn't answer the why part? ��

Baseball taught me that every analytics guy should be beaten regularly and severely.

I thought Moneyball told the true story of how data analysis (statistics) revolutionized the way Baseball teams were run, such that all every major league does it to some degree. But then what do I know about baseball

I appreciate the implication that the people who develop medications and surgical techniques for your granny are pussies nonetheless.

[aussenseiter]

I thought Moneyball told the true story of how data analysis (statistics) revolutionized the way Baseball teams were run, such that all every major league does it to some degree. But then what do I know about baseball

I appreciate the implication that the people who develop medications and surgical techniques for your granny are pussies nonetheless.

Sure but what is baseball analytics measuring?

Heart size?

[unsunghero]

Right, you're saying that as a rational adult, assuming you're going to get caught. But criminals don't think that way.

I used to shoplift as a kid. Now, if we had the death penalty for shoplifting or something, that might have stopped me. Otherwise though, I was going to shoplift without even knowing the exact consequences of getting caught, because I didn't think I was going to get caught.

And again, for more serious crimes like murder ... if someone is considering murdering another person, they're not thinking very much about the number of years in their sentence if they get caught: that's just human nature.

THEN IT STILL STANDS

that a person in prison is a person who is unable to commit offenses to the public. So the LONGER they are in prison, the longer that period where the public is safe from them

Keep neglecting that part aren’t we

Not to mention, no one really knows how many criminals heard through word of mouth or elsewhere about a sentence and decided not to. No one is going to voluntarily report that in some stupid study or survey

[unsunghero]

You're keeping people off the streets where they can't commit crimes against the public, but you're also taking someone who maybe could have been redirected and fucking them up, as well as putting a bunch of other criminals in their lives. Then think of the determinism of your life and consider how things might have been different for you if you spent your late teens and early 20's hanging out with a bunch of drug dealers, burglars, and muggers for literally years on end day after day. Also you probably already feel like you fucked up your life. Then compare this to moving somebody out of the situation they were in when they committed the crime, but getting them back out before their life is completely fucked and they grew up in prison.

Tony Soprano isn't like "oh shit they're RICOing us bedda stop mobbin'"

I’m not doing that, they made the choice to commit the crime. They are doing that

And no, I still understood right and wrong enough to stop hanging with the wrong crowd, had I began to associate with them

The main purpose of prison is not rehabilitation, I know it should be in fantasy-land where we can change people’s personalities magically and easily, but it’s not. Not in my opinion. The main purpose of prison is to protect the public from the dangerous

[loramin]

THEN IT STILL STANDS

that a person in prison is a person who is unable to commit offenses to the public. So the LONGER they are in prison, the longer that period where the public is safe from them

Keep neglecting that part aren’t we

Not to mention, no one really knows how many criminals heard through word of mouth or elsewhere about a sentence and decided not to. No one is going to voluntarily report that in some stupid study or survey

You don't need a survey. You look at state #1 that gives 10 years for a crime and state #2 that gives 20 years: it's that simple.

When you do, you see that the crime rate is the same in both states: state #2's harsher penalty didn't deter anyone.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

It's just the "starve the beast" strategy.

Try solving the poverty itself, even a Republican who does so gets called a socialist. That's why the John Birch people called Eisenhower a commie


Ah, you probably know about Ike's nephew or something. Ike wrote him a mil-spec grade letter while President. Basically spelled out the exact terrain that is fuckin with ye ol' American Way as we speak "Texas preachers" he even mentions at one point I am almost positive.

History: complicated, until you study it. Then just weird.

[Origen]

America has like, a quarter of the world's total prisoners and we're about 4% of the total population

I know conservatives love to see lower class people incarcerated for crimes that more fortunate people can afford, but it obviously isn't working

[unsunghero]

You don't need a survey. You look at state #1 that gives 10 years for a crime and state #2 that gives 20 years: it's that simple.

When you do, you see that the crime rate is the same in both states: state #2's harsher penalty didn't deter anyone.

Because there are no other differences between the populations of 2 possibly very different states that might factor into those rates. Of course

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

https://teachingamericanhistory.org/document/letter-to-edgar-newton-eisenhower/

Time .... moves slow .... through time ....

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Excerpt. 1954 ya'll!
https://i.imgur.com/XXGxpxX.jpg

[unsunghero]

America has like, a quarter of the world's total prisoners and we're about 4% of the total population

I know conservatives love to see lower class people incarcerated for crimes that more fortunate people can afford, but it obviously isn't working

Yea turns out it’s really really hard to permanently change someone like a sociopath or narcissists personalities. We also can’t rehabilitate things like pedopholia

But if you have some MKULTRA sort of way to re-program someone, I’m sure the penal system and behavioral health might be interested

Not committing multiple felonies is not rocket science. The majority of the poor know and understand how to avoid doing it their entire lives

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

But no longer are their numbers negligible. Propaganda (trickle down!) is a magical thing.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Yea turns out it’s really really hard to permanently change someone like a sociopath or narcissists personalities. We also can’t rehabilitate things like pedopholia

But if you have some MKULTRA sort of way to re-program someone, I’m sure the penal system and behavioral health might be interested

Not committing multiple felonies is not rocket science. The majority of the poor know and understand how to avoid doing it their entire lives

People need to understand what "being institutionalized" means.

It's not as simple as The Shawshank Redemption makes it out. It's far more extensive. Poor youth plan on doing times. It part of the rhythm. It's how fucking relationships get actually built. ("My girl is coming through this week!")

The class is the institution, not the prison. That's structuralism. Any given "structure" reflects the "structure" of the entire "assembly."

"Free people" should not feel too sure they ain't just as institutionalized as the brothers. Just a matter of if you know how to get beat yet. I know how to get beat. Do not let them near your hands. They know how to bust a nerve so you'll never hold a fork right. Let them have the ribs. Sounds counterintuitive, but that's kinda what they are for.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

The assembly is called "Gestell" auf Deutsche.

[loramin]

Because there are no other differences between the populations of 2 possibly very different states that might factor into those rates. Of course

Of course there are differences ... but none that reasonably explain why the crime rate is the same despite massively harsher penalties.

Look, criminals are bad people who do hurtful things. You want them to hurt and suffer in response: that's natural. In fact, it's very human. We have vengeance hard-wired into our DNA, because when we were evolving it was a key component of social behavior: societies that punished societal transgressors succeeded over ones that didn't.

But we're not in hunter-gatherer tribes anymore! We have these big brains that we also evolved. So either you can stick solely with your evolved gut vengeance motivation ... or you can use your big evolved human brain to actually look at the studies, and think logically.

Seriously, have whatever political beliefs you want, and want criminals to suffer whatever harsh penalties you can imagine ... but also live in and understand reality. In reality, in general (obviously this doesn't hold true for every crime/punishment) harsher penalties simply don't deter criminals from committing crimes

[unsunghero]

People need to understand what "being institutionalized" means.

It's not as simple as The Shawshank Redemption makes it out. It's far more extensive. Poor youth plan on doing times.

I think if we looked at the numbers there are far more poor young people who do not expect themselves to do time in jail or prison than ones that do

I think your impression has been skewed by media

[unsunghero]

Of course there are differences ... but none that reasonably explain why the crime rate is the same despite massively harsher penalties.

Look, criminals are bad people who do hurtful things. You want them to hurt and suffer in response: that's natural. In fact, it's very human. We have vengeance hard-wired into our DNA, because when we were evolving it was a key component of social behavior: societies that punished societal transgressors succeeded over ones that didn't.

But we're not in hunter-gatherer tribes anymore! We have these big brains that we also evolved. So either you can stick with your evolved gut vengeance motivation ... or you can use your big evolved human brain to actually look at the studies, and think logically.

Seriously, have whatever political beliefs you want, and want criminals to suffer whatever harsh penalties you can imagine ... but also live in and understand reality. In reality, in general (obviously this doesn't hold true for every crime/punishment) harsher penalties simply don't deter criminals from committing crimes

Those difference might play a significant role. You can’t just look at penalties and rates in a vacuum IMO, or I’m sure we can do that for a lot of other factors when it comes to offending and make ridiculous correlations

Justice is different from vengeance to me

Again, I feel like I’m a broken record here, but in REALITY, prisons are not effective at rehabilitation, because permanently transforming a sociopath into a good citizen is really fucking hard. So because they are not rehabilitated, it’s safer for the public for them to be in prison and away from them longer

[Lune]

Prisons not being effective at rehabilitation means all the more reason not to let them rot in there on the taxpayer dime for years and years before they eventually come out and commit another crime.

Because there are no other differences between the populations of 2 possibly very different states that might factor into those rates. Of course

Statisticians know how to control for variables as simple as two different states. I take it you have never learned statistics and are poo-pooing one of humanity's most powerful tools blindly. The causality of long term sentencing is pretty clear which is why most places in the US aren't doing it anymore.

[Elizondo]

Pages wasted chasing an obvious strawman

Obviously repeat offenders will not commit additional crimes if they are serving longer sentences

[Lune]

Obviously repeat offenders will not commit additional crimes if they are serving longer sentences

Obviously. But as a whole longer sentences don't lower overall crime rates because you're ultimately creating more and worse criminals.

[unsunghero]

Prisons not being effective at rehabilitation means all the more reason not to let them rot in there on the taxpayer dime for years and years before they eventually come out and commit another crime

Yeah why have penalties at all? The shortest time the best since nothing works, let’s have them stay 1 day and be back out

How ridiculous. They have to come out to commit another crime don’t they? If they can’t come out, hey no crime!


Statisticians know how to control for variables as simple as two different states. I take it you have never learned statistics and are poo-pooing one of humanity's most powerful tools blindly. The causality of long term sentencing is pretty clear which is why most places in the US aren't doing it anymore.

They wouldn’t even know all the differences in populations exact effects to know what to control for. Do you think people in Phx behave like people in Alabama? Like people in NY?

Are you kidding me

[unsunghero]

Obviously. But as a whole longer sentences don't lower overall crime rates because you're ultimately creating more and worse criminals.

I don’t care much if an 80yr old geezer after spending 30 years in prison is a worse criminal

Aside from gun violence (which he shouldn’t have as a felon and wouldn’t if I had my way and we brought back stop and frisk), his ability to commit violent crimes has plummeted

[Elizondo]

Obviously. But as a whole longer sentences don't lower overall crime rates because you're ultimately creating more and worse criminals.

If you want to get into why criminals are criminals we can do that

Hint: Primarily raised by single mothers

[unsunghero]

How about we do a study on how gangs operate differently in different cities

Since crime rates are only based on sentencing

[Elizondo]

How about we do a study on how gangs operate differently in different cities

Since crime rates are only based on sentencing

The premise that harsher penalties don't deter crime is false. It's grounded in sympathy for criminals and not justice for the victims.

[Lune]

The premise that harsher penalties don't deter crime is false. It's grounded in sympathy for criminals and not justice for the victims.

People who study this disagree with you but I guess your gut feelings win out

[unsunghero]

The premise that harsher penalties don't deter crime is false. It's grounded in sympathy for criminals and not justice for the victims.

I didn’t delve too far into the studies, but studies in general are so often manipulated to a particular outcome

Like I said, I would like to see a study on the differences between say MS13, the crips, the hells angels behavior might affect crime rates

How the availability or not of guns in a particular area might affect crime rates

How many victims are accessible at night in different cities might affect crime rates

But nope, we found a way to isolate out all of those plus the dozens of others that could be proposed given more thought, and isolated it down to sentencing length

[loramin]

The premise that harsher penalties don't deter crime is false. It's grounded in sympathy for criminals and not justice for the victims.

No, it's grounded in fact: I already linked studies demonstrating as much.

If harsher penalties deter crime, show me some evidence. Surely there are conservative researchers at major academic institutions? If strong penalties deter crime, they would have studies documenting it ... right?

[unsunghero]

No, it's grounded in fact: I already linked studies demonstrating as much.

If harsher penalties deter crime, show me some evidence. Surely there are conservative researchers at major academic institutions? If strong penalties deter crime, they would have studies documenting it ... right?

If studies are gold then I guess that includes all the unethical medical ones of the present and past too

[Elizondo]

People who study this disagree with you but I guess your gut feelings win out

Appeal to authority fallacy

No, it's grounded in fact: I already linked studies demonstrating as much.

If harsher penalties deter crime, show me some evidence. Surely there are conservative researchers at major academic institutions? If strong penalties deter crime, they would have studies documenting it ... right?

Yea yea like the Covid studies that were all proven to be ideologically driven and pure bunk

[unsunghero]

How about how the differences is numbers of locations that criminals tend to frequent such as liquor stores, strip clubs, head shops, etc might affect crime rates?

How about the differences between the ratios of the drugs of choice in the area might affect crime rates?

How about how the weather condition differences in different areas might affect crime rates? Is it easy to mug people when it’s 10 below zero out?

But nope, it’s all about sentencing length

[Lune]

If studies are gold then I guess that includes all the unethical medical ones of the present and past too

You're basically rejecting the utility of the fundamental logical framework upon which modern civilization is based

https://i.imgur.com/NQswWBf.jpg

[Elizondo]

How about how the differences is numbers of locations that criminals tend to frequent such as liquor stores, strip clubs, head shops, etc might affect crime rates?

How about the differences between the ratios of the drugs of choice in the area might affect crime rates?

How about how the weather condition differences in different areas might affect crime rates? Is it easy to mug people when it’s 10 below zero out?

But nope, it’s all about sentencing length

You're wasting your time

"I linked to a study"

"People I never met have studied it"

It's common sense that if a repeat offender is locked up, he won't commit additional crimes against the public while being locked up. The premise that harsher penalties don't deter crime is a strawman. The question that should be asked is, does the penalty fit the crime on an individual case by case basis.

What we should be debating is the root of criminal behavior which is primarily boys being raised by single mothers, but they won't touch that.

[Lune]

How about how the weather condition differences in different areas might affect crime rates? Is it easy to mug people when it’s 10 below zero out?

This is actually a great illustration of statistical power. Data over long periods of time clearly show seasonality of crime, with it increasing during the summer (we're not 100% sure why but there are theories). However they can isolate this effect statistically and remove it from data. They do the same thing for numerous other variables.

You're also arguing that one of the cornerstones of modern business is invalid, like every corporation that does this with data is retarded and they just aren't in on it like you are lol. Somebody go to the business analysts convention and tell them

[unsunghero]

You're wasting your time

"I linked to a study"

"People I never met have studied it"

It's common sense that if a repeat offender is locked up, he won't commit additional crimes against the public while being locked up. The premise that harsher penalties don't deter crime is a strawman. The question that should be asked is, does the penalty fit the crime on an individual case by case basis.

What we should be debating is the root of criminal behavior which is primarily boys being raised by single mothers, but they won't touch that.

Or I’ve heard the poverty always creates crime argument but after numerous periods of extreme poverty in history like the Great Depression, there weren’t giant crime wave spikes to my knowledge

So poverty is a contributing factor, never a complete excuse on its own that people want it to be. Crime creates poverty just as much by driving away businesses and turning areas into blight

[unsunghero]

This is actually a great illustration of statistical power. Data over long periods of time clearly show seasonality of crime, with it increasing during the summer (we're not 100% sure why but there are theories). However they can isolate this effect statistically and remove it from data. They do the same thing for numerous other variables.

You're also arguing that one of the cornerstones of modern business is invalid, like every corporation that does this with data is retarded and they just aren't in on it like you are lol. Somebody go to the business analysts convention and tell them

I just don’t trust studies, especially ones on something as complex as human behavior across multiple populations in the us at once

[Elizondo]

Or I’ve heard the poverty always creates crime argument but after numerous periods of extreme poverty in history like the Great Depression, there weren’t giant crime wave spikes to my knowledge

So poverty is a contributing factor, never a complete excuse on its own that people want it to be. Crime creates poverty just as much by driving away businesses and turning areas into blight

I didn't say poverty. It has nothing to do with that.

I said 'Boys being raised by Single Mothers'

[Lune]

Somebody go tell every major global retail corporation we don't actually know how to isolate market forces and determine optimal pricing points

[unsunghero]

I didn't say poverty. It has nothing to do with that.

I said 'Boys being raised by Single Mothers'

Yea I know you hadn’t but a lot of people do

Crime is just from poverty. Not always, there have been periods of extreme poverty without crazy crime increases

And yea I agree that single motherhood seems to be another factor

[Lune]

Or I’ve heard the poverty always creates crime argument but after numerous periods of extreme poverty in history like the Great Depression, there weren’t giant crime wave spikes to my knowledge

So poverty is a contributing factor, never a complete excuse on its own that people want it to be. Crime creates poverty just as much by driving away businesses and turning areas into blight

It has more to do with culture than poverty though poverty plays a role. One impoverished culture isn't going to have the same crime rate as another because the behaviors are different. For example during the 80's there was a huge economic boom but also one of the largest crime spikes in modern history

[aussenseiter]

Ah, you probably know about Ike's nephew or something. Ike wrote him a mil-spec grade letter while President. Basically spelled out the exact terrain that is fuckin with ye ol' American Way as we speak "Texas preachers" he even mentions at one point I am almost positive.

History: complicated, until you study it. Then just weird.

https://teachingamericanhistory.org/document/letter-to-edgar-newton-eisenhower/

Time .... moves slow .... through time ....

Excerpt. 1954 ya'll!
https://i.imgur.com/XXGxpxX.jpg

But no longer are their numbers negligible. Propaganda (trickle down!) is a magical thing.

For what error do you invoke Eisenhower's name?

[unsunghero]

Somebody go tell every major global retail corporation we don't actually know how to isolate market forces and determine optimal pricing points

Possibly, depends on the study

[unsunghero]

It has more to do with culture than poverty though poverty plays a role. One impoverished culture isn't going to have the same crime rate as another because the behaviors are different. For example during the 80's there was a huge economic boom but also one of the largest crime spikes in modern history

Culture effects behavior which effects crime rates but sentencing is all that matters

Lol

[Lune]

Culture effects behavior which effects crime rates but sentencing is all that matters

Lol

Nowhere did I say sentencing is all that matters.

Only that scientists have managed to isolate the effects of longer sentencing from things like culture, seasonality, larger trends in crime, local characteristics, etc.

For example we know that one area where longer sentencing is good is for pedophiles. Their rates of recidivism are so high they tend to go back to diddling no matter how short or long they are put away, so it pays to just lock them up and throw away the key.

[unsunghero]

Nowhere did I say sentencing is all that matters.

Only that scientists have managed to isolate the effects of longer sentencing from things like culture, seasonality, larger trends in crime, local characteristics, etc.

For example we know that one area where longer sentencing is good is for pedophiles. Their rates of recidivism are so high they tend to go back to diddling no matter how short or long they are put away, so it pays to just lock them up and throw away the key.

Show me the evidence of how they effectively isolated those factors. All the factors listed and isolated, I’m wondering what kind of overlap we have with our factors

[Elizondo]

Yea I know you hadn’t but a lot of people do

Crime is just from poverty. Not always, there have been periods of extreme poverty without crazy crime increases

And yea I agree that single motherhood seems to be another factor

At least 70% of men in prison were raised by single mothers

It doesn't stop there. Drug addiction, teen pregnancy ect. are all primarily affected by children being raised by single mothers

[Lune]

Show me the evidence of how they effectively isolated those factors. All the factors listed and isolated, I’m wondering what kind of overlap we have with our factors

I'd basically have to teach you statistics. You find the p value of a given variable, and if that data is continuous, you use a linear regression or generalized linear model. If binary, logistic regression. It's basically a lot of math. I'm also not going to go digging through a study and serving the methods for you. At this point if you don't believe me you don't believe me and that's okay.

[unsunghero]

I'd basically have to teach you statistics. You find the p value of a given variable, and if that data is continuous, you use a linear regression or generalized linear model. If binary, logistic regression. It's basically a lot of math. I'm also not going to go digging through a study and serving the methods for you. At this point if you don't believe me you don't believe me and that's okay.

I don’t doubt it takes some math

What I don’t trust is their willingness and ability to identify and isolate all the other contributing factors

[Nibblewitz]

p-values lol

What are the significance levels of these studies?

[Origen]

Even if I accept the postulation that the root cause of all crime is the lack of fathers in a given household, what is the proposed solution to this problem?

[Lune]

Even if I accept the postulation that the root cause of all crime is the lack of fathers in a given household, what is the proposed solution to this problem?

less 'bortions

something something minorities' fault

[aussenseiter]

Even if I accept the postulation that the root cause of all crime is the lack of fathers in a given household, what is the proposed solution to this problem?

More shotgun weddings.

[unsunghero]

less 'bortions

something something minorities' fault

Guarantee these were some white trump lovin cowboys

Either that or some white gay boys

[unsunghero]

They should have double the consequences for all the looting videos I’ve seen across various cities for white people looting in addition to wearing blackface paint, a hate crime

[Lune]

Guarantee these were some white trump lovin cowboys

Either that or some white gay boys

less 'bortions

something something minorities' fault

Nailed it

San Francisco has excessive crime, this is because of NIMBYism more than "suspect exhibiting non-white behavior". Trust me I grew up an hour and a half away

[Ooloo]

Even if I accept the postulation that the root cause of all crime is the lack of fathers in a given household, what is the proposed solution to this problem?

Well a start might be for the general messaging from every single mainstream media outlet and institution to change from "white people root cause" to "hey take responsibility for your own actions asshole".

I can imagine being a young black dude and hearing constantly from everyone how the country is racist and you'll always be held back and you basically have no agency to do anything to make a good life for yourself might make me more likely to say fuck it and become a professional criminal.

So ya know, maybe if the media stopped just lying constantly, every day, about essentially every story involving race, behaviors might change! It's just that, depressingly, dems *need* people to believe racism is worse than ever. It's their electoral bread and butter. They have a perverse incentive to ignore all the progress that has occurred and lie to young minorities about the nature of life in america, which to me is unconscionable.

[aussenseiter]

you basically have no agency to do anything to make a good life for yourself

Remand and apply scrutiny to recidivism studies.

[unsunghero]

Nailed it

San Francisco has excessive crime, this is because of NIMBYism more than "suspect exhibiting non-white behavior". Trust me I grew up an hour and a half away

Statistics show it seems to have particular ethnicities over-represented

Not making any inferences other than the raw data

[loramin]

I can imagine being a young black dude and hearing constantly from everyone how the country is racist and you'll always be held back and you basically have no agency to do anything to make a good life for yourself might make me more likely to say fuck it and become a professional criminal.

Nobody has to tell black people the country is racist: they know it from a lifetime of racist experiences.

less 'bortions

something something minorities' fault

Actually, abortion has been shown to massively reduce crime: see Freakanomics.

The short version is that abortions reduce unwanted children. Unwanted children are more likely to become ... :eek: ... criminals.

[unsunghero]

Nobody has to tell black people the country is racist: they know it from a lifetime of racist experiences.


Yea Jaden Smith has had such a racism-riddled, terrible life

Black conservatives, especially those from the middle class, seem to give a very different “lived experiences” (I hate this phrase) picture

Your income matters infinitely more for your quality of life than your race in modern America

[Ooloo]

Nobody has to tell black people the country is racist: they know it from a lifetime of racist experiences.

Oh give me a break. This right here is the problem. I know many black people and not a single one of them has ever expressed this attitude. I only hear it from white libs and racial grievance vultures like al sharpton.

Why did jussie smollet have to literally invent a completely retarded fake hate crime? Shouldn't he have had many real ones to complain about? Oh wait he's a black insanely rich actor. The white supremacy system of structural oppressions skipped over him I guess?

Boy I wish I could be as oppressed as all those famous black actors and presidents and athletes and musicians who only make millions of dollars here in racist america.

Stop telling black kids they can never make it when that is *obviously* untrue. You're not helping.

[Landroval]

A college degree, depending on college prep accomplishments in high school, requires 4 to 5 years to accomplish.

A Roth-IRA account requires a 5 year investment horizon on contributions (moneys deposited into the account) before the original contributions are able to be withdrawn without distribution penalties.

Student loans do not accrue interest until 6 months after your graduating semester and then accrue interest at roughly 3% over the federal interest rate set at the time they are borrowed.

The average rate of return on investing in the S&P (SPY ETF) over the past 20 years is 10.05%.

Therefore, I am advising my daughters to apply for a ton of grants and scholarships to where all their college and living expenses are covered AND to max out their student loans specifically so that they can deposit the loan money directly into their Roth-IRA, because if they apply for PAYE, or REPAYE (income-driven repayment program) they'll pay like 95$/month on the 30k in loans, and five years after they graduate a 10% compounding interest on 3750 invested twice annually, will have the balance at approximately 63k five years into their career, in which they can just withdraw the 30k in contributions tax-free, and pay off their loans in full while netting 33k in profit for their retirement which they can borrow 10k against for a first-time home buyer

[Lune]

Actually, abortion has been shown to massively reduce crime: see Freakanomics.

The short version is that abortions reduce unwanted children. Unwanted children are more likely to become ... :eek: ... criminals.

Yea I was being sarcastic.

"“The unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.”"

[unsunghero]

Oh give me a break. This right here is the problem. I know many black people and not a single one of them has ever expressed this attitude. I only hear it from white libs and racial grievance vultures like al sharpton.

Why did jussie smollet have to literally invent a completely retarded fake hate crime? Shouldn't he have had many real ones to complain about? Oh wait he's a black insanely rich actor. The white supremacy system of structural oppressions skipped over him I guess?

Boy I wish I could be as oppressed as all those famous black actors and presidents and athletes and musicians who only make millions of dollars here in racist america.

Stop telling black kids they can never make it when that is *obviously* untrue. You're not helping.


The difference is a framing issue. The reason black conservatives aren’t reporting lifetimes of constant “he did a racism to me!” is probably because they’re not constantly looking for it, or associating a particular response to what might be due to another characteristic such as personality to always race instead

Of course Dems will say it’s because they’re either lying, too stupid to recognize all the subtle racisms and/or not numerous enough for their experiences to matter to anyone

Btw, talk about a minority population with few friends, black conservatives. But this is one case where a tiny marginalized population can go fuck themselves because they’re on the wrong side

[Ooloo]

The difference is a framing issue. The reason black conservatives aren’t reporting lifetimes of constant “he did a racism to me!” is probably because they’re not constantly looking for it, or associating a particular response to what might be due to another characteristic such as personality to always race instead

Of course Dems will say it’s because they’re either lying, too stupid to recognize all the subtle racisms and/or not numerous enough for their experiences to matter to anyone

Btw, talk about a minority population with few friends, black conservatives. But this is one case where a tiny marginalized population can go fuck themselves because they’re on the wrong side

Yeah the treatment of black conservatives is one of the more disgusting things in modern american life. They get it from all directions: black libs and white libs. If you actually care about the unfair treatment of black people in modern america, maybe look there?

There's nothing quite like seeing some 20 year-old white college junior tell Thomas Sowell (lived through jim crow) or Glenn Loury (lived through jim crow) or Clarence Thomas (lived through jim crow) that they don't know what it's like to be black in america. It's like the grossest thing ever.

[Lune]

A college degree, depending on college prep accomplishments in high school, requires 4 to 5 years to accomplish.

A Roth-IRA account requires a 5 year investment horizon on contributions (moneys deposited into the account) before the original contributions are able to be withdrawn without distribution penalties.

Student loans do not accrue interest until 6 months after your graduating semester and then accrue interest at roughly 3% over the federal interest rate set at the time they are borrowed.

The average rate of return on investing in the S&P (SPY ETF) over the past 20 years is 10.05%.

Therefore, I am advising my daughters to apply for a ton of grants and scholarships to where all their college and living expenses are covered AND to max out their student loans specifically so that they can deposit the loan money directly into their Roth-IRA, because if they apply for PAYE, or REPAYE (income-driven repayment program) they'll pay like 95$/month on the 30k in loans, and five years after they graduate a 10% compounding interest on 3750 invested twice annually, will have the balance at approximately 63k five years into their career, in which they can just withdraw the 30k in contributions tax-free, and pay off their loans in full while netting 33k in profit for their retirement which they can borrow 10k against for a first-time home buyer

This is not good financial advice, this is why:

Student loans do not accrue interest until 6 months after your graduating semester and then accrue interest at roughly 3% over the federal interest rate set at the time they are borrowed.

This is false. Federal unsubsidized student loans begin accruing interest immediately upon disbursement, at roughly 7%. Subsidized loans do not accrue until you graduate, but they are based on need. Your daughters will not qualify for subsidized loans basically if you are in any way contributing financially, which you will be if they are sticking all the loans they take out into an IRA or if you are filing them as dependents / they are younger than 25. "Advising" them to win grants/scholarships is not advice, it is a wish for achievement, and again they won't qualify for most of these unless they can demonstrate need or are stellar academically.

You also can't count 100% on the S&P 500 performing like that, especially not at 5 or 10 years, and you're gambling against a big fat student loan with 6-7% interest. Income driven repayment plans are not going to be $95 a month in payments, more like $200-$300 realistically, and at 5 years that $30k loan is going to be more like $45k unless subsidized.

The better advice imo is to have them do their general education basically for free at a community college and then transfer to a college or university to finish upper division coursework. They should only be going to prestigious universities if they are STEM, with some exceptions; otherwise they should find a much more affordable state school with a good program in their chosen major, and if they have great academics, these schools are also more likely to offer scholarships to headhunt them from more selective universities. Employers don't care about your undergrad unless you went to an elite uni or very locally renowned school, and they should vet the quality and quantity of internship/employer connections in a given program.

[arvidez]

"Actually, abortion has been shown to massively reduce crime: see Freakanomics."

"The short version is that abortions reduce unwanted children. Unwanted children are more likely to become ... ... criminals."

death penalty for the petty crimes they would have committed? harsh

minority report...i get it now

[Ooloo]

The term "unwanted children" is hilariously ghoulish. There are far more qualified families wanting to adopt children than most people realize.

Stop killing your damn babies, if you're too shitty and lazy or whatever to take care of them just put them up for adoption. It used to be "safe legal and rare" and now it's like some kind of leftist sacrament to actively ensure that your unborn baby is actually killed.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Again, I feel like I’m a broken record here, but in REALITY, prisons are not effective at rehabilitation, because permanently transforming a sociopath, or simply a pretty nastily brain damaged person, into a good citizen is really fucking hard. So because they are not rehabilitated, it’s safer for the public for them to be in prison and away from them longer

FIFY and yeah, you would expect we could do better. But as George Harrison sang, "Some things take so long..."

Anyone work in corrections here? Unless *they* are the sociopath (fact) I bet they all will say "yeah, so, you know, time is time. Give us stuff to fill their day, that's the single best shot we know. Content while they tick off the years."

Some places are so much lockdown, you basically are letting whatever sickness is in their head fester. Lockdown is necessary, but not for the vast majority of US prisoners. They need cell, lockdown times (lights out) and content and CO's who know how to keep people marking time level.

You can't make them good citizens, lots of times. A sociopath is always gonna sociopath, and a damaged brain --- I'm sure we all know of a few.

But the vast majority, just give a cell block and tables and cards and decent food and CO's that know how to run a trustee system, and at least there is "raw dignity" in doing the time. 60 days or 2 years or 20 years. Just a bit of due respect to them, if they do time right and level it every day.

Serious, cart before horse here. Let's put aside "rehabiliation" as something that at least requires "fair" time. Vast majority, folks. Just brothers and associated dregs caught with the gun during a stop, boom probation violation, boom 5 years.

House them fair. Rikers is a crime. Fact.