Warriors are useless in 90% of the games content

[enjchanter]

Yawn

[DeathsSilkyMist]

you can keep a warrior up more easily than a knight, and FD/lull aside I don't see the added utility. that warrior better be raid geared though otherwise I'm inviting the monk.


I'm never inviting the knight.

Warriors are better than Knights in group content that doesn't require Knight spells due to their added dps.

FD, Lull and Snap Agro are generally better than an ok DPS bump in a game with DPS diminishing returns like P99. Especially when most P99 characters are overgeared for the content.

Most content isn't designed around characters having end game weapons and 34%+ haste items. This is why you don't see 6 player groups that often. The DPS increase of more players does not yield the group more XP. The extra utility Knights provide allow more options for low number groups, which are more efficient.

Nor do I see scenarios where a bit of extra tankiness was needed on content that doesn't need Warrior discs. Lifetaps, heals, fear, and root are all tools that can be used when needed.

[Naethyn]

I won't try to argue why dps is good, but If we are going to categorize content by warrior disc, I propose we do the same for knight spells. What content needs knight spells?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I won't try to argue why dps is good, but If we are going to categorize content by warrior disc, I propose we do the same for knight spells. What content needs knight spells?

Nobody is suggesting DPS is bad. I certainly didn't say that.

Diminishing returns means you only need a certain amount of DPS to clear content. Past that DPS threshold, you aren't getting more kills per hour. If you aren't getting more kills per hour, the extra DPS is mostly useless. With slows and heals, you generally don't need the extra DPS to specifically kill the mob before it kills you in group scenarios.

For your question about what content needs knight spells, a simple example is Fungi King. You aren't using a Warrior to pull Fungi King. You're using a Shadowknight or a Monk.

Are Knight spells absolutely necessary for most content? Of course not. Just like Warrior discs are not absolutely necessary for most content.

Utility > DPS in most group content. This is because the DPS threshold for most group content isn't very high, and P99 characters are already doing above average DPS for the content due to their above average gear. A level 30 P99 Knight is probably doing more DPS than a level 30 Warrior in level 30 appropriate gear, something like Crafted Armor and Minotaur Axes.

An easy way to think about it is just to look at Enchanters. They have enough utility and DPS by themselves to clear more content than any other class solo. A torched + hasted pet in Sebilis is doing something like 100 DPS. A group consisting of a Paladin/SK + Rogue + Shaman is already doing at least 150 DPS, and you have Lull/FD + Root + Slow + Heals. Could you swap the Paladin/SK for a Warrior to get an extra bit of DPS? Sure, but then you would lose Lull/FD and snap agro, which may slow down pulls or kills. The extra DPS from a Warrior is not happening in a complete vacuum, where you can ignore pull speed, pull quality, root breaks, CC in camp, snap agro, etc.

[Naethyn]

Are Knight spells absolutely necessary for most content? Of course not. Just like Warrior discs are not absolutely necessary for most content..

So if knight spells aren’t absolutely necessary and neither are warrior discs that only leaves dps and hp and the warrior does better at both.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

So if knight spells aren’t absolutely necessary and neither are warrior discs that only leaves dps and hp and the warrior does better at both.

You glossed over my entire post regarding DPS diminishing returns and utility. You'll need to re-read it. DPS also isn't absolutely necessary past a certain point. Nor is max HP and AC absolutely necessary past a certain point.

Tanks in general aren't absolutely necessary for most group content, which is why you see power trios like Monk/Enchanter/Shaman. I am not sure why you are trying to go down this reductive line of thinking.

[Naethyn]

Shadowknights are the worst dps melee in the game fyi.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Shadowknights are the worst dps melee in the game fyi.

That has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. P99 Knights are still doing above average DPS when compared to the gear level that is expected for most content. The average P99 player is much better geared than what the developers balanced the content around.

You don't seem to understand how DPS diminishing returns work.

If you kill Fungi King in 100 seconds with an SK instead of 70 seconds with a Warrior, you still have to wait 30 minutes for a respawn. In this simple example, the pull utility of a Knight is far superior to the extra DPS of a Warrior. This is because killing Fungi King 30 seconds faster will not grant you any extra Fungi King kills within a single session. You'd have to kill Fungi King 60 times in a row to get 1 extra spawn, which is 30 hours straight with no breaks.

[Naethyn]

I know you think ogres are amazing, and shadowknights are ultra powerful, and if that's how you want to play no one can stop you. I also won't stop you from picking ideal scenarios where your reality is true. But please don't try to apply it to most other things it looks silly.

The end of the story is knights are less dps, less health, and less mitigation and as you get higher level it becomes more and more evident. Shitty hybrid spells are useful when you play with bad players, but in reality you should probably just be swinging your weapon more, and warriors do that almost twice as good at 60.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I know you think ogres are amazing, and shadowknights are ultra powerful, and if that's how you want to play no one can stop you. I also won't stop you from picking ideal scenarios where your reality is true. But please don't try to apply it to most other things it looks silly.


This is incorrect. Attacking other players with lies and nonsense just makes you look bad.

If you want to go down this route, people can just claim you are biased due to being a Warrior main. Then we are back to square one.


The end of the story is knights are less dps, less health, and less mitigation and as you get higher level it becomes more and more evident. Shitty hybrid spells are useful when you play with bad players, but in reality you should probably just be swinging your weapon more, and warriors do that almost twice as good at 60.

Knights have more utility than Warriors. Most content can be slowed, which means it usually doesn't matter that Warriors have better mitigation. DPS has diminishing returns because respawn timers exist, and P99 players have above average gear for their level. If you are waiting for respawns, and can recover before the respawns occur, you have already hit your DPS threshold.

You can choose to ignore these realities, but it won't change reality. Knights are better than Warriors for the vast majority of content, excluding content that needs Warrior Discs.

[Snaggles]

Warrior dps can be good, just like their aggro can be. They just don’t get both at the same time.

This is all very stupid. No class is losing group slots to another class because the servers have 300-600 people on at any one point.

The age old dilemma to aggro issues is a self correcting problem. Let the drool-rag dps take dirt naps. In most difficult low-man fights if you don’t have a defensive warrior just add a spot healer, like a Druid.

[Troxx]

Oh jeeze … DSM is all triggered over some dumbass bullshit again

https://media2.giphy.com/media/ZCxSakk99TDRsIGL8d/200w.gif?cid=6c09b952b3cyg89k5v9j6o5k50yiogov8cll9 ij23lgjc4ms&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Oh jeeze … DSM is all triggered over some dumbass bullshit again


Troxx only came back to post more nonsense it seems. Unfortunate. I am not sure why he thinks anybody cares.

You can see how triggered he is just by looking at his location and signature lol. If anybody disagrees with him or he is wrong about something, he just can't take it.

[Jimjam]

Maybe knights are better than warriors when mana regen is around, but without mana regen (and in a busy group they may not get the opportunity to med) they get little benefit from their stuns.

At least blood ember offers passable solutions for the core spell lines.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Maybe knights are better than warriors when mana regen is around, but without mana regen (and in a busy group they may not get the opportunity to med) they get little benefit from their stuns.

At least blood ember offers passable solutions for the core spell lines.

Clickies and FT items go a long way in saving mana. I don't have mana problems in groups, even busy ones. If it's busy, you're killing mobs quickly, which means you don't need to use more expensive spells like lifetap. Just use your cheap agro spells and save mana for a bad situation.

[Jimjam]

*meant to type “they get little benefit from their spells” not stuns, but I think you figured that out - hopefully other readers will be able to also see past that brainfart!

[Toxigen]

dsm thinking p99 zones are all so full of players you're limited to only the mobs in your camp

this is nonsense, moar dps = moar gud

warrior is the best for people that aren't shitters

[Snaggles]

If just casting aggro spells a hybrid has very little mana burn rate. Also, the likelihood of not having an enchanter or bard or PoTG is very low.

In a normal group unless casting heals, taps, or a ranger having to do excessive rooting/buffing they should be mana neutral.

Just play what you want. Accounts are free. If you get bored, level up all of them.

dsm thinking p99 zones are all so full of players you're limited to only the mobs in your camp

this is nonsense, moar dps = moar gud

warrior is the best for people that aren't shitters

Outside raid gear and epics DW warriors do crappy dps and have marginal aggro.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

dsm thinking p99 zones are all so full of players you're limited to only the mobs in your camp

this is nonsense, moar dps = moar gud

warrior is the best for people that aren't shitters

Being a sociopath and training zones because you desperately want to min/max XP with a Warrior tank is not a very good look. You can do this kind of pulling with Knights as well.

If your group has enough DPS to consistently do this kind of pulling without downtime, you don't need the Warrior DPS anyway. I've tanked in plenty of non-stop pulling groups. DPS wasn't the issue, respawn timers were.

[Toxigen]

laughs in evasive and 1k crippling blows

[DeathsSilkyMist]

laughs in evasive and 1k crippling blows

Stops laughing when waiting for respawns, as large crippling blows don't matter when you have already hit your camp's DPS threshold. They are fun to watch, but that isn't an argument for which class has greater efficiency.

You also can't use evasive disc and use a damage increasing disc at the same time. You have to pick one.

[Toxigen]

Stops laughing when waiting for respawns, as large crippling blows don't matter when you have already hit your camp's DPS threshold. They are fun to watch, but that isn't an argument for which class has greater efficiency.

You also can't use evasive disc and use a damage increasing disc at the same time. You have to pick one.

dont need a dmg disc to hit over 1k thems regular swings with eashen 2 hander bbycakes

nobody groups as 6 people except the mouth breathers in KC...thinking a 3 or 4 man (or shaman duo) doing work in an empty zone with more mobs than you can keep down

im taking the war every time

[DeathsSilkyMist]

dont need a dmg disc to hit over 1k thems regular swings with eashen 2 hander bbycakes

nobody groups as 6 people except the mouth breathers in KC...thinking a 3 or 4 man (or shaman duo) doing work in an empty zone with more mobs than you can keep down

im taking the war every time

You need to stay in Zerk, and have Eashen 2hander. Heals will occasionally take you out of Zerk if you are tanking, and evasive reduces your DPS. You are assuming harder to get weapons and no downtime on Zerk, which is not very realistic for normal play.

Looking at DPS a vacuum, while not taking into account any other variables, is why you are overestimating a warrior's capabilities.

In a scenario where you have limitless mobs due to an empty zone, there are still other factors to consider. Longer pulls mean you may get pathing issues. Having FD or Lull works great under those conditions. CC'ing mobs via root when Duoing/Trioing with a Shaman isn't the best of ideas in a caster heavy zone. You also keep forgetting that well geared Knights are no slouch when it comes to DPS. My SK is putting out at least 70 DPS with a cheap ToV weapon. With pet I can probably get closer to 80.

[Jimjam]

Evasive is bugged. It is just god mode vs blues and doesn’t feel like it substantially lowers dps (if at all). Would love to see parses for both p99 and classic.

Regarding lull imo just pull 5 mobs and cut pull times to a fifth. CC is negligible work.

[WarpathEQ]

This thread is useless for 100% of the games content. This is P99, if you're still grouping to get exp you're taking whatever person is willing to stand in front of the mobs and take the hits.

Bringing this back to the top as a logical conclusion to this thread.

[Naethyn]

Just your average Vindi.

https://imgur.com/mDdvLqb.jpg

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Evasive is bugged. It is just god mode vs blues and doesn’t feel like it substantially lowers dps (if at all). Would love to see parses for both p99 and classic.

Regarding lull imo just pull 5 mobs and cut pull times to a fifth. CC is negligible work.

You cut pull times, but increase the chances of getting a bad pull or bad CC breaks in camp, which can set you back more. This gets riskier as you pull farther out due to things like pathing. And if you are limited due to other groups in zone, you will hit respawn timers.

[Jimjam]

Obviously the puller roots part of the pull on top off pathing nodes so you can pull even more mobs without leaving camp, but I feel I’m getting a little off topic discussing pulling strategies in this particular thread and look forward to picking it up in a more relevant one.

[Toxigen]

DSM has never been in one of my XP groups.

I was an animal.

[Troxx]

Highest hp?
Check!

Highest baseline mitigation?
Check!

3 full minutes of god mode per 7 minutes (43% uptime)?
Check!

Superior damage tables?
Check!

Innate mainhand triple attack at 60 (oh so sweet with a 2 hander)
Check!

Doesn’t need a bunch of extra mana buffs to rock out with cock out?
Check!

————————

Grab a cheap Frostreaver from Dain and you will have both superior threat and dps. For all other situations where you didn’t even need the threat proc substitute in a ToV 2 hander for damage output unimaginable by a knight.

For the record I don’t think I have ever parsed a dps output difference in or out of evasive. If it exists at all it is not really noticeable.

Paladins specifically are quite useful in less than ideal groups or when hunting with mouth breathers. They do have an actually useful spell kit that covers a wide range of abilities and roles. Honorable mention for paladins.

Shadowknights mostly just suck compared to either other tank class for 95% of content. For 4 of the remaining 5% they are comparably useful. For that last 1% they really only add value cause FD … but 2 other classes can do that too … so just skip the SK and bring a monk instead.

That’s ok though. This game isn’t hard and even scrub classes like SKs can be wildly successful. Heck … I bet SKs who didnt even know there was a FD fail message will manage to win at this game. It really isn’t hard.

[Toxigen]

Highest hp?
Check!

Highest baseline mitigation?
Check!

3 full minutes of god mode per 7 minutes (43% uptime)?
Check!

Superior damage tables?
Check!

Innate mainhand triple attack at 60 (oh so sweet with a 2 hander)
Check!

Doesn’t need a bunch of extra mana buffs to rock out with cock out?
Check!

————————

Grab a cheap Frostreaver from Dain and you will have both superior threat and dps. For all other situations where you didn’t even need the threat proc substitute in a ToV 2 hander for damage output unimaginable by a knight.

For the record I don’t think I have ever parsed a dps output difference in or out of evasive. If it exists at all it is not really noticeable.

Paladins specifically are quite useful in less than ideal groups or when hunting with mouth breathers. They do have an actually useful spell kit that covers a wide range of abilities and roles. Honorable mention for paladins.

Shadowknights mostly just suck compared to either other tank class for 95% of content. For 4 of the remaining 5% they are comparably useful. For that last 1% they really only add value cause FD … but 2 other classes can do that too … so just skip the SK and bring a monk instead.

That’s ok though. This game isn’t hard and even scrub classes like SKs can be wildly successful. Heck … I bet SKs who didnt even know there was a FD fail message will manage to win at this game. It really isn’t hard.

lol 10/10

[Cecily]

As a maxed out DPS rogue I don't care who tanks something, as long as they do.
Warriors are pretty good. I do like their DPS. I prefer knights in HoT and NToV clears for immediate sieve / slows, but it honestly doesn't matter at all if you adjust appropriately. If the person tanking is capable of tanking the thing, then they can tank the thing.

[fortior]

I like bow questing on my warrior with the gleed bow

[Sonark]

I don't understand how much XP you guys think you need if you have a Warrior or knight class so well-equipped you need to have constant pulling, all the time, everywhere.

[Troxx]

I can’t speak for anyone but myself but outside of raids …

If I am horsing around doing dumb shit solo and die, I will frequently just run back and loot without bothering to find a rez. I enjoy the xp loss at some level because it gives me reasons to log in that don’t involve batphones

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Unlike Troxx, I admit when I make a mistake, or didn't know something. Troxx cannot do this. Instead, he tries to attack other posters to try and appear correct. Just look at his signature and location.

Unfortuately he hasn't done anything to show why Warriors are better than SK's for group content. Nor will he do so, as proving his points with facts and logic isn't his style.

[Duik]

Burn.

[Cecily]

There's no "better" in this situation. It's a dumb debate. It's either tanked or not. If it's tanked, it's tanked well or poorly based on gear and skill. The class doesn't matter. My rogue is an objectively better tank in terms of surviability (and agro) than A LOT of knights and warriors.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

There's no "better" in this situation. It's a dumb debate. It's either tanked or not. If it's tanked, it's tanked well or poorly based on gear and skill. The class doesn't matter. My rogue is an objectively better tank in terms of surviability (and agro) than A LOT of knights and warriors.

There are always objectively better or worse classes in all scenarios. Such is the nature of an unbalanced class-based game. There is no harm in supplying the facts. Knowledge is power, and there is no need to obfuscate facts, even if the intent is to do something like destigmatize a class. Not saying you are doing that specifically.

As I've said before, you shouldn't stimgmatize Warriors. They can tank just fine in a group. Please invite them. They just aren't quite as good as Knights in most content, unless Warrior discs are needed.

[Troxx]

Naethyn already pulled your pants down.

I won't try to argue why dps is good, but If we are going to categorize content by warrior disc, I propose we do the same for knight spells. What content needs knight spells?

He posed that question. You admitted no content really needs knight spells.

So if knight spells aren’t absolutely necessary and neither are warrior discs that only leaves dps and hp and the warrior does better at both.

Fun times.

Are we gonna morph this into another DSM thread?

Perhaps you should just schedule an appointment with your therapist to point out where, on the doll, the mean trolls touch you.

[Penish]

they still haven't found the right combo for dsm's meds, at least it keeps the threads alive.. lol

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Naethyn already pulled your pants down.



He posed that question. You admitted no content really needs knight spells.



Fun times.

Are we gonna morph this into another DSM thread?

Perhaps you should just schedule an appointment with your therapist to point out where, on the doll, the mean trolls touch you.

You have not been reading the thread if you think Naethyn "pulled my pants down". This is typical Troxx nonsense and lack of reading comprehension.

Naethyn made a logical mistake, because he only looked at the necessity for Warrior Discs and Knight Spells, while not looking at the necessity for Tank Mitigation and DPS. He ignored that to try and win the debate.

The problem is Tank Mitigation and Tank DPS are also unecessary for most content. This is why you see Enchanter/Cleric duos, Enchanter/Shaman/Monk trios, etc.

The only thing Naethyn showed was that tanks aren't necessary at all for most content, which is true.

When a group wants to use a tank, then you can compare which tanks are better for the job, by looking at their kit as a whole. Knight kits are better for most content, unless the content needs Warrior Discs. This is due to Warrior agro issues, and lack of utility on the Warrior's part. They can't fill multiple roles, which limits their usefulness in 2-4 player groups. DPS diminishing returns often limit the extra DPS a Warrior brings as well.

[bcbrown]

If nothing is necessary then anything is possible.

[Troxx]

Lol

[Snaggles]

I still don’t think the majority of you are parsing the difference between a red blade warrior and a pleb Ntov 2h knight on blues. Neither is touching a rogue let alone a charmed pet but the warrior isn’t doing great. Any difference might be a shaman pet…if that. This not saying which is better either, most properly geared 2h knights are smashing blues.

Meanwhile on a 30 second fight that’s maybe two spells which is almost no mana. You can pick the timing of when they land for ideal threat vs hoping for RNG which at maxed dex is 2ppm off the main hand or 1ppm in the same duration.

For generic grind and semi-raid use my pally has only had me wishing I had a warrior twice: Bro Z and the General in Kith. Both situations where adding a healer fixes the problem. If I had a warrior instead of a paladin I’d be fine with that too. Being able to use a ratio 2h for low threat dps is a nice hat trick even if tanking non-Lord/Lady stuff would be more ice skating than with a knight.

TBH, out of a bit of raid insecurity I’ve considered finishing the warrior as well. The knight doesn’t bring as much to the table other than trash tanking and SF clicks. Since then I’ve leveled up a bane wiz and cleric, both having even less dkp in them than my paladin let alone any properly equipped warrior. I’m sure I’ll finish the warrior eventually but I’ve just never seen a problem we couldn’t solve with a knight not involving a CH chain of more than 2 people.

[Troxx]

I have a NTOV 60 paladin and a 60 Frostreaver warrior.

The paladin and warrior can both solo easy shit. They both lock aggro equally well. The warrior takes a lot less damage and does 30-40% more damage despite having an objectively worse weapon.

Both hold aggro. Warrior does most all better. Honorable mention to Paladin for spell kit utility.

Sk has a shit spell book by comparison.

Ewww.

[enjchanter]

You guy are missing the point

Paladin is fun
Warrior is boring

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I have a NTOV 60 paladin and a 60 Frostreaver warrior.

The paladin and warrior can both solo easy shit. They both lock aggro equally well. The warrior takes a lot less damage and does 30-40% more damage despite having an objectively worse weapon.

Both hold aggro. Warrior does most all better. Honorable mention to Paladin for spell kit utility.

Sk has a shit spell book by comparison.

Ewww.

This shows your inexperience with Knights quite well. Paladins and Shadowknights can solo better than Warriors. If you don't understand this, you've only soloed "easy shit".

You also don't understand agro if you think a Frostreaver Warrior can hold agro equally well to a Paladin/SK. Frostreaver can be used by Knights by the way.

Finally, you don't seem to understand damage mitigation, as Paladins and Shadowknights also have methods for damage mitigation. Heals, Taps, Fear Kiting, etc. Warrior Discs are only needed on a small percentage of content.

You don't have an SK, which is probably the cause of your lack of understanding of SKs.

Please stop trolling, or please learn the game so you can be informed.

[Duik]

Troxx, i think your lesson is about to begin.

[Soothsayer]

At least warriors are viable at level 60. I remember having a blast on my warrior when Green first launched, and then I hit 50 and realized I was literally just a sub-par melee DPS that almost never got to tank cool stuff. I spent so much time gathering the annoying list of clickies and consumables that they required, and for all that effort, I occasionally got a pity offtank spot or a rare chance to tank Phinny every once in a great while. Raiding with Kingdom at level 50 as warrior was definitely the nadir of my EQ experience. It sucked. I eventually stopped playing... didn't really have the energy to reroll after so much time and effort on my warrior.

If a new server happens, I'm 100% rolling SK and never looking back. Probably gonna be an Erudite for maximum style and coolness points, too. For posterity, I do NOT recommend playing a warrior for any reason in pre-Kunark EQ. They're straight up trash.

[Jimjam]

In Dwerium Trio era my toon for soloing Naggy/Vox was an erud Sk. They are styling as heck!

[Troxx]

This shows your inexperience with Knights quite well. Paladins and Shadowknights can solo better than Warriors. If you don't understand this, you've only soloed "easy shit".

You also don't understand agro if you think a Frostreaver Warrior can hold agro equally well to a Paladin/SK. Frostreaver can be used by Knights by the way.

Finally, you don't seem to understand damage mitigation, as Paladins and Shadowknights also have methods for damage mitigation. Heals, Taps, Fear Kiting, etc. Warrior Discs are only needed on a small percentage of content.

You don't have an SK, which is probably the cause of your lack of understanding of SKs.

Please stop trolling, or please learn the game so you can be informed.

A) I said they both lock aggro equally well. Perhaps I should have specified that knights do so immediately 100% of the time they want it, but we all play this game and this is basic knowledge. In groups/raids my warrior doesn’t have aggro issues. He locks aggro. Locked aggro is locked aggro. Once he has it he doesn’t lose it unless someone with a spellbook and desire wants to intentionally steal it. The white damage and threat from Frostreaver is legit especially at 60 with mainhand triple attack. It is more or less a given that a knight who is trying will always run circles around a warrior - that has never been in question. Rangers can do so in spades as well.

B) I also said they both solo easy shit well. Point to me where I said the warrior solos better. Oh that’s right. I didn’t.

C). Taps/heals are not mitigation. They are healing. Rooting and backing up is not mitigation, it is avoidance of combat. Fear kiting is similar. Please do not mix up your terminology. Toe to toe and gear being comparable, the warrior will take fewer hits (better avoidance skills) and take less damage per hit (superior ac returns amongst other perks) 100% of the time outside of disc. Under disc, they are an entirely separate entity on the tanking front.

Un-wad your panties. Sorry you chose the worst tank for 99% of content.

[Naethyn]

Paladins get an instant cast heal.
Shadowknights get an instant cast nuke.
Warriors get text telling the clerics to heal them.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

A) I said they both lock aggro equally well. Perhaps I should have specified that knights do so immediately 100% of the time they want it, but we all play this game and this is basic knowledge. In groups/raids my warrior doesn’t have aggro issues. He locks aggro. Locked aggro is locked aggro. Once he has it he doesn’t lose it unless someone with a spellbook and desire wants to intentionally steal it. The white damage and threat from Frostreaver is legit especially at 60 with mainhand triple attack. It is more or less a given that a knight who is trying will always run circles around a warrior - that has never been in question. Rangers can do so in spades as well.

B) I also said they both solo easy shit well. Point to me where I said the warrior solos better. Oh that’s right. I didn’t.

C). Taps/heals are not mitigation. They are healing. Rooting and backing up is not mitigation, it is avoidance of combat. Fear kiting is similar. Please do not mix up your terminology. Toe to toe and gear being comparable, the warrior will take fewer hits (better avoidance skills) and take less damage per hit (superior ac returns amongst other perks) 100% of the time outside of disc. Under disc, they are an entirely separate entity on the tanking front.

Un-wad your panties. Sorry you chose the worst tank for 99% of content.

A) Your idea of "locking agro" is "while every other group/raid member plays correctly, I maintain agro". That is true for all tank classes, it isn't specific to a Warrior's ability to generate agro. A Knight can grab agro back easily whenever they want, and they can use frostreaver. A Warrior will struggle due to RNG if agro is lost, or they need to switch targets. They can get bad luck on taunts and procs. Trying to compare Warrior and Knight agro generation in this manner is incorrect.

If you want people to give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you simply misspoke, you need to give other people the same courtesy. It is also ok if you didn't know the basics of agro generation.

B) Glad we agree that Warriors do not solo as well as knights.

C) I won't bother quibbling over vocabulary, as you probably won't admit you are wrong anyway, regardless of who is correct. The effect is the same, Knights can heavily reduce the amount of damage they take as well via their spells in both solo and group scenarios. Warrior discs are unresistable, which is the primary reason why they are better on enemies like raid bosses. If AoW could be rooted or fear kited, you wouldn't need Warriors.

A lot more content can be done by Knights soloing than Warriors. Claiming Knights are worse on 99% of content compared to Warriors is obviously untrue. Warriors shine in raid content, that is generally it.

[Troxx]

Off the top of my head I can think of zero content (either raid or group) that REQUIRES the knight spell book in a cooperative play environment with other players.

Group: On the group side I can think of some hard hitting group content that strongly benefits from warrior disc (gwurms) but not requires. Whether the disc outweighs the benefit of knight spell book … well that depends on gear and encounter. In general - a monk can substitute in for any of the tank classes. Assuming the warrior can hold aggro well - the critical benefit of knights are negated. Ultimately it’s a wash.

Raid: can’t think of anything that REQUIRES a knight spell book. There are obvious examples of encounters that require warriors.

Solo? Who gives a shit. We never disagreed here because there never was a disagreement. Warriors solo easy shit well enough that they can keep the xp bar moving when no groups are to be found.


——————
—————

Title is that warriors are useless in 90% of content.

This is not the case unless the premise is that you’d be better off bringing a monk (which a strong case could be made for). If that the stance we’re taking … well then knights are useless for 100% of content? I’m assuming the 10% residual is because you needed the warriors superior hit points, mitigation and and disc.

At the end of the day, this is just a silly silly thread.

[Beckoning]

Naethyn already pulled your pants down.

LOL

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Off the top of my head I can think of zero content (either raid or group) that REQUIRES the knight spell book in a cooperative play environment with other players.

Group: On the group side I can think of some hard hitting group content that strongly benefits from warrior disc (gwurms) but not requires. Whether the disc outweighs the benefit of knight spell book … well that depends on gear and encounter. In general - a monk can substitute in for any of the tank classes. Assuming the warrior can hold aggro well - the critical benefit of knights are negated. Ultimately it’s a wash.

Raid: can’t think of anything that REQUIRES a knight spell book. There are obvious examples of encounters that require warriors.

Solo? Who gives a shit. We never disagreed here because there never was a disagreement. Warriors solo easy shit well enough that they can keep the xp bar moving when no groups are to be found.


——————
—————

Title is that warriors are useless in 90% of content.

This is not the case unless the premise is that you’d be better off bringing a monk (which a strong case could be made for). If that the stance we’re taking … well then knights are useless for 100% of content? I’m assuming the 10% residual is because you needed the warriors superior hit points, mitigation and and disc.

At the end of the day, this is just a silly silly thread.

The vast majority of content doesn't require a lot of things. Just because something isn't required, that doesn't mean there is no heirarchy of what is better or worse.

Most group content doesn't need tanks at all. This is why you see Cleric/Enchanter duos, Enchanter/Shaman/Monk trios, etc.

Your idea of requirements has nothing to do with whether or not a Warrior or Knight is better for the average XP group.

[Troxx]

As I said … silly silly thread.

[Naethyn]

Shadowknights hold tunare aggro while warriors bio orb so she roots them instead and then FD at engage.

[Vivitron]

At least warriors are viable at level 60. I remember having a blast on my warrior when Green first launched, and then I hit 50 and realized I was literally just a sub-par melee DPS that almost never got to tank cool stuff. I spent so much time gathering the annoying list of clickies and consumables that they required, and for all that effort, I occasionally got a pity offtank spot or a rare chance to tank Phinny every once in a great while. Raiding with Kingdom at level 50 as warrior was definitely the nadir of my EQ experience. It sucked. I eventually stopped playing... didn't really have the energy to reroll after so much time and effort on my warrior.

If a new server happens, I'm 100% rolling SK and never looking back. Probably gonna be an Erudite for maximum style and coolness points, too. For posterity, I do NOT recommend playing a warrior for any reason in pre-Kunark EQ. They're straight up trash.

I'm not sure if you made this post knowing that SKs are arguably the least favored velious raid class under the current rule set and metas, if so *sensible chuckle*, if not, consider this fair warning.

[fortior]

'Mitigation' is one of those words which without context may seem like it means any method of reducing damage taken, but in the context of EQ, specifically EQ tank classes, it exclusively means the various skills and stats which influence for how much damage a mob hits you. Not even whether a mob hits you--that's avoidance. Warriors have the best mitigation. Monks have the best avoidance. Knights can get super beefy too and a knight can tank stuff like KT, flurries, but only by brute forcing it through gear. Mobs like Tunare and Vulak are able to kill even a BiS warrior with a 7k damage spike in under a second in p99. A knight doesn't stand a chance, but they're good at other things.

I personally wouldn't invite any tank class to a group in late velious. I would invite a monk. In classic, I could see myself inviting a knight tank because everyone's gear sucks and they have a bunch of survivability. It wouldn't be a good group, though, especially since classic had the hybrid XP penalties.

[Soothsayer]

I'm not sure if you made this post knowing that SKs are arguably the least favored velious raid class under the current rule set and metas, if so *sensible chuckle*, if not, consider this fair warning.

Given the length of time Green spent in classic, I would definitely still make a knight class even knowing that they’re eventually overshadowed for raid content, even if I were a hardcore raider. To me, making class decisions based on how viable you will eventually be years down the line is weird. Many people will put the game down for months / years due to burnout and boredom long before expansions even release.

[Penish]

imagine rolling a knight

lol

[Toxigen]

imagine rolling a knight

lol

[Snaggles]

There are a lot of situations where a sizable HP pool and an aggro lock are a luxury if playing a cleric.

I wouldn’t turn away or invite a player simply based on class, especially if it’s a weird person. That said, depending on how poorly geared a warrior is and how poorly played the dps are you might have to do a lot of unnecessary spot healing or leg clicking instead of just focusing on the one or two teammates.

But…for the thousandth time, this game isn’t difficult in 2024. If you need any particular class that bad for a normal grind situation, it’s probably a “you problem”. Try getting good, it solves a lot of life’s problems.

[Jimjam]

There are a lot of situations where a sizable HP pool and an aggro lock are a luxury if playing a cleric.

I wouldn’t turn away or invite a player simply based on class, especially if it’s a weird person. That said, depending on how poorly geared a warrior is and how poorly played the dps are you might have to do a lot of unnecessary spot healing or leg clicking instead of just focusing on the one or two teammates.

But…for the thousandth time, this game isn’t difficult in 2024. If you need any particular class that bad for a normal grind situation, it’s probably a “you problem”. Try getting good, it solves a lot of life’s problems.

I've found doing all the wrong things produce much more engaging and memorable gameplay. Everyone has their twink gear, pocket clerics, etc now. No errors are catastrophic. Keep things fun and you'll be remembered and get invites.

[Penish]

yeah ill always remember those knights doing less dps than a 46 rogue, invites a comin

also lol

[Jimjam]

yeah ill always remember those knights doing less dps than a 46 rogue, invites a comin

also lol

the lower the dps the more time you get to spend hanging out with your pals having a good ol time!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

the lower the dps the more time you get to spend hanging out with your pals having a good ol time!

Luckily DPS thresholds are not that high on P99 for most content, and most people on P99 are using gear that is much better than what most content was balanced around.

The average level 30 P99 Knight is probably doing more DPS than a level 30 Warrior in level appropriate gear, something like Crafted Armor and Minotaur Axes.

[Snaggles]

yeah ill always remember those knights doing less dps than a 46 rogue, invites a comin

also lol

I’ll always remember the slack jaw rogue with a Tunare dagger my pally beat on the last Tunare parse because backing up on the tank swap was too complex.

This thread continues to be stupid. Now aggro tanks and squishy dps are being compared. I hope someone brings up enchanters just for sake of further nuking any attempt of a rational discussion.

[fortior]

I mean there's not much to talk about. Knights have snap aggro and warriors have bigger dps out of the box. You can instantly fix the snap aggro issue with a bio orb (if you're in a blue or green raid guild, you probably want one anyway for ~reasons~).

I think the better comparison would be shadow knight vs paladin, because I think the paladin wins out in everything aside from race choices. Soulfire, DS being a useful raid buff, lull, root are just a really nice kit. LoH > harm touch. Shadowknight has FD with a prenerf CoS which is good, but both can group while only one has real raid utility (super beefy geared examples aside)

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I mean there's not much to talk about. Knights have snap aggro and warriors have bigger dps out of the box. You can instantly fix the snap aggro issue with a bio orb (if you're in a blue or green raid guild, you probably want one anyway for ~reasons~).


Bio orb is around 100k, and can be risky due to being a blind. It works, but it's not as good as a non-blind, faster cast snap agro spell. Knights are still better in this regard. Knights can use bio orb too, so it isn't a bonus unique to Warriors.

DPS necessity depends on the camp, and how many hours in a row you plan on staying at the camp. If Warrior DPS gives you one extra spawn cycle every 4 hours, you have to play for 4 hours non-stop to get that bonus. If you take a 30 minute break somehwere in that four hours, everything repops and you lose the extra repop the extra DPS would have given. DPS has thresholds on P99 due to respawn timers.

Because of this, utility often plays a bigger role over DPS in groups, unless your group DPS is really low to begin with. Ensuring your group doesn't wipe via utility increases the odds of having a session with maximum gains and no wasted time recovering.


I think the better comparison would be shadow knight vs paladin, because I think the paladin wins out in everything aside from race choices. Soulfire, DS being a useful raid buff, lull, root are just a really nice kit. LoH > harm touch. Shadowknight has FD with a prenerf CoS which is good, but both can group while only one has real raid utility (super beefy geared examples aside)

Paladins are the better raiding Knight for sure.

In groups SK's have FD for more consistent pulling, and have pets. Pets increase DPS and provide utilities for pulling in some instances, and for pet tracking if you don't have a Druid/Bard/Ranger. Being able to run a low man group using an SK to tank and pull is nice.

Solo-wise SK's will do better than Paladins on most things that can be fear kited. Lull is nice, but a failed lull requires rooting all agroed mobs and camping, or using Divine Aura and running out of the zone. Both of these options can be tough to pull off, depending on the scenario. SK's can just FD in a bad situation.

Paladins pull ahead in the solo department when fighting solo challenge level 55+ mobs, as they cannot be fear kited. Paladin healing cannot be resisted, so they can fight longer via healing themselves.

I usually say if you want to do a good amount of raiding on a Knight, go Paladin. If you want to mostly solo and group, go SK.

[Troxx]

There really isn’t much of a comparison between paladin and SK unless they are both just sitting there spamming aggro spells and afk-tanking.

SKs have FD. It’s useful for sure but barely clocks in as a cute party trick compared to the paladin’s spell book: HoT, actual heals, root, stun, blind, useful buffs, rez, calm …

I feel bad for SKs. Arguably the weakest class in the game other than maybe a wizard trying to sustain dmg in a group.

[Snaggles]

I’m a huge fan of the paladin but the SK’s spell book does have situational advantages.

SK gets an instant invis item, two FD’s, snare, fear, undead lull, taps, and a pet. While a capable solo class, whether fearing or tap-tanking, they can plus-1 kill most stuff in the game and readily pull difficult zones with an easy reset button. The latter is something a Pally even with a CHA kit can’t pull off (even mine with over 230; it works 100% of the time 90% of the time). Group with a skilled SK in seb or HS and it’s EZ Mode. (Edit - I forgot about the Bobbing Corpse earring for 1k pp, one hour levitate is a nice QoL item)

You are missing some great buffs and stuns. Something arguably better to mix with a shaman. I just don’t go so far to say they are a “weak class”. They just fit into the 90% (or maybe greater) camp rather than the 10%.

They are more capable most the time than the warrior unless it has a support network. They are a set of “nice” clubs off eBay or from the local sporting good store where a warrior is a PGA grade driver. Yes, it’s “better” unless you are being asked to do more than the thing it was designed for.

Warriors can be the king of s-tier raid tanking. No argument there, they are needed. Throw 20 clerics counting to 1 or 2 at them and behold the glory. Outside that though, for most players, knights are great. Just bring a better class to AoW if you care to contribute.

[Snaggles]

I mean there's not much to talk about. Knights have snap aggro and warriors have bigger dps out of the box. You can instantly fix the snap aggro issue with a bio orb (if you're in a blue or green raid guild, you probably want one anyway for ~reasons~).

5 second cast and warriors don’t have channeling. Yea sure, basically a knight. After all they only cast one spell per fight.

[fortior]

5 second cast and warriors don’t have channeling. Yea sure, basically a knight. After all they only cast one spell per fight.

Was just talking about initial snap aggro, obviously it's not a whole knight kit

I prefer the paladins kit myself but their races kinda suck. Also their epic sucks, but the SKs epic sucks too so they're even there. FD with prenerf CoS is amazeballs in some situations, I use that trick on my necro all the time

Also tossing one in for rangers, underrated when twinked, Ive seen them do ballsy shit

[Naethyn]

There is time to click totems.

[Keebz]

SKs are pretty good unless you're bad, in which case they are very bad.

[Troxx]

Most classes are pretty good unless you’re bad.

[Snaggles]

Most classes are pretty good unless you’re bad.

A warrior doesn’t have as many input decisions to make. Therefore, a two-button mashing buffoon with a hybrid is being significantly underplayed over one pondering their spell book and using a GCD reset.

[Naethyn]

https://imgur.com/eH13AZD.jpg

The number of input decisions a warrior can make is massive.

[Snaggles]

https://imgur.com/eH13AZD.jpg

The number of input decisions a warrior can make is massive.

Imagine if you had a spell book

[Naethyn]

Clicks:
Invis (cast on others)
Shrink (cast on others)
Snare
Haste
Regen
Ultravision
Extinguish Fatigue
Cure Disease
Blind
Levitate
Sow
Stun
Heal
DS

Procs:
Root
Snare
MR Slow
CR Slow
Tash
Lifetap
Rune
Avatar

The warrior is a spellblade at the end of p99 and has a wider array of clicks/procs than any other class.

[Keebz]

With all the clicks in p99, warrior winds up with a bit of a spellbook, but none of those procs / clickies are exclusive to warrior except targeted shrink. The hybrids get full spellbooks and can click all that crap plus have actual class defining clickies like CoS, DW BP, sky cloak, etc. Warriors do compare favorably vs monks in the procs/clickies space, however.

[Naethyn]

Casting invis on others is not something a knight can do.

[Jimjam]

Casting invis on others is not something a knight can do.

Super helpful cos a solid duo partner, cleric, has limited self-invis options. Also offers double invis to a range of toons that are decent corpse recovery specialists.

[Keebz]

Larrikan's Mask and it can be recharged with Box of the Void.

[Naethyn]

Oh nice

[Botten]

Larrikan's Mask and it can be recharged with Box of the Void.

I always wondered how did people figure out that this or any items are rechargeable like this. (I mean outside the sell to vendor way.)

https://wiki.project1999.com/Larrikan%27s_Mask

[Trexller]

I always wondered how did people figure out that this or any items are rechargeable like this. (I mean outside the sell to vendor way.)

https://wiki.project1999.com/Larrikan%27s_Mask

OG devs spilled secrets

alot of secrets

the OG devs were playing the live game, in major raid guilds, while they were developing the game

[Snaggles]

I always wondered how did people figure out that this or any items are rechargeable like this. (I mean outside the sell to vendor way.)

https://wiki.project1999.com/Larrikan%27s_Mask

The spell/item click for “identify sometimes says weird stuff. This one says “class 3”.

Regardless I recharge with one on an alt. 7 gold and not needing a box of the void is worth a camp-out

[Wakanda]

If players really feel this way then the people they are playing with are actually really bad at the game. Root costs 30 mana and gives warrior aggro. By the time it wears off, assuming the mob is still alive, aggro is no longer an issue.

When I play my shaman I will duo with a warrior over almost any other class because they are easier to heal than a Monk for the content we do, and they have very respectable DPS. When I duo with monk I feel like I have a lot more clutch moments where they suddenly almost die, and when I duo with a paladin or sk the mobs don’t die fast enough for the camp to feel good.

It’s just weird how many people complain about warrior aggro because if the players in your group aren’t rooting the mobs then they are bad at the game I don’t feel bad for saying this.

Even when I’m playing on my Enchanter I notice that most clerics are skilled enough to root mobs before I even mez them.

[enjchanter]

Yeah so any class that can't do its basic function without help is a bad class imo

Warriors need to hold aggro and that's like the 1 thing they can't do reliably

You auto attack
Press kick
Hope you proc or someone roots the mob for you

[Troxx]

You auto attack
Press kick
You ensure you are appropriately geared
You take less damage than every other class
You have overpowered disciplines
You actually accomplish the job while putting out admirable dps
You don’t really have aggro problems

Fixed that for you.

The above was always my experience as a warrior.

[Wakanda]

Yeah so any class that can't do its basic function without help is a bad class imo

Warriors need to hold aggro and that's like the 1 thing they can't do reliably

You auto attack
Press kick
Hope you proc or someone roots the mob for you

By this same logic clerics are a shitty class too.

but yes, if your healers aren't capable of rooting mobs then they are actually bad.

when i heal in KC i usually dont get the luxury of having an enchanter mez, the only CC we have is root lmao. I dont care if youre a paladin or an SK, Im slowing the mob and immediately rooting it so I can sit down without the mob punching me in the face. its really not that hard.

also when it comes to solo'ing as a warrior, you dont need to use procs, you can use a wurmslayer and scimitar of the emerald dawn for insane damage. two warriors in our guild literally just did 1-40 in a couple of nights of playing with good weapons, haste item, and a fungus tunic. no matter how much money you spend twinking an actual op class like enchanter, they aint leveling that fast.

[Wakanda]

i guess rogue would actually be the best example. class is pretty bad. not great at solo'ing. i dont really like duo'ing with them because they aren't tanky and need to be behind the mobs to really deal great damage. just a really bad class for 90% of the content.

In reality at high level though i love having them in my group and they are top dps in raids. like on paper any class can be really bad lol.

[Wakanda]

sorry if i sound hostile btw, i just got hella triggered when someone told me im bad at the game because i dont think its a big deal to root mobs. like i literally just slow mobs and root so i can sit down. sometimes i root first because slow alone will get me instant aggro sometimes. i dont feel like this is a big deal or really a hard thing to do, especially with clicky. root is a fast cast.

[Jimjam]

What slow do clerics have? OoO

[Wakanda]

What slow do clerics have? OoO

I play shaman, cleric, necromancer, and enchanter, lol.

[Wakanda]

What do you mean not tanky?

They get unlimited AC returns and tank just fine.

Shit warriors will tank almost the same as shit rogues. There's very little difference in it.

true af, truly classic is rogue tanks who solo just fine

even without gear :D

[Snaggles]

If you aren’t getting heals let alone CH the pure melee all have impressive defensive skills.
The issue with rogue is if you are tanking you are giving up about 40% your dps.

Warrior aggro for xp grouping has been overplayed. Root or don’t root, just slow the stuff so one npc doesn’t beat the piss out of three people. If you can keep up with regen and a fungi it’s no harm/foul for the healer.

End of day though, any antics that slows the group down is on the individual not being good. If you aren’t missing a step, keep pulling and going. If your healer needs constant med breaks get better classes or players.

[Ripqozko]

Dude classic is not what p99 is.

P99 is a custom game based on EverQuest. Rogue tanking is overpowered. It’s very good. It shouldn’t be this good. It is.

That’s the facts, people’s feelings and desires for classic mean nothing compared to the facts.

They’re not as good as monks, they’re as good as knights and warriors AC for AC. Most rogues gear for str/MR/HP. Not AC. Put some AC on or get to the point where you have no choice but to stack AC anyway and only a few small decisions matter (earring 2, range slot etc) at BIS levels.

Rogues tank really good in normal content, ie: juggs. I've had rogue tanks for low lvl stuff lot of times. People weird thinking they can't tank.

[enjchanter]

sorry if i sound hostile btw, i just got hella triggered when someone told me im bad at the game because i dont think its a big deal to root mobs. like i literally just slow mobs and root so i can sit down. sometimes i root first because slow alone will get me instant aggro sometimes. i dont feel like this is a big deal or really a hard thing to do, especially with clicky. root is a fast cast.


Clerics don't need any help healing ppl
Rogues don't need any help to do damage


Warriors need help to be able to tank

Maybe you wouldn't have to root the mob before you slow if warriors could just do their job

[Jimjam]

Clerics don't need any help healing ppl


I disagree. Cleric needs a tanky target to heal. They also appreciate mana regen and damage reduction spells.

[PatChapp]

Warriors dont need help to group tank, just like other tanks they need buffs and heals.
Totems are so op,a bag of 10 lasts all day if you use them only when the stupid rogue is trying to die.

[Jimjam]

Warriors dont need help to group tank, just like other tanks they need buffs and heals.
Totems are so op,a bag of 10 lasts all day if you use them only when the stupid rogue is trying to die.

It’s also okay for other classes to take the occasional hit. They have defence skills to practice and regen to contribute toward the healing pool.

[fortior]

Every melee capable of pulling aggro also has ways to drop aggro or is tanky enough to handle some blue con smacks

Priests and casters who don't suck can handle it as well, shamans drawing aggro with slow can tank a slowed mob just fine until the warrior regains aggro, clerics aren't drawing aggro, druids aren't drawing aggro. And aggro is a joke to the only casters worth picking up in your warrior group, enchanter and necro.

The main challenge is convincing people to take a warrior tank for your xp group instead of just going full charm dps mode. Make friends. Also, reroll monk unless your goal is specifically to have a level 60 warrior.

[Wakanda]

Dude classic is not what p99 is.

P99 is a custom game based on EverQuest. Rogue tanking is overpowered. It’s very good. It shouldn’t be this good. It is.

That’s the facts, people’s feelings and desires for classic mean nothing compared to the facts.

They’re not as good as monks, they’re as good as knights and warriors AC for AC. Most rogues gear for str/MR/HP. Not AC. Put some AC on or get to the point where you have no choice but to stack AC anyway and only a few small decisions matter (earring 2, range slot etc) at BIS levels.
I actually agree with you. I had a level 60 rogue. Gave it to a friend when I quit EQ. He swore he wouldn’t change the password. Months later I try to log in and the password is changed. Turns out he sacrificed my rogue as low as he could, and then gave the account to some rando.

I called Sony and got my password reset. Anything of value was stripped, but I had all of my no drop stuff. Full sky shrine, jboots, epic, etc. remember being shocked when I logged in and made a thread on the forum and finding out what happened. My “friend” sac’d my char as low as he could, and then gave it to a rando who intentionally deleveled my rogue it to level 6 if I recall. I tried to find the silver lining. I was super low level, but I had a ragebringer and full skyshrine, so at least I could have some fun ;)

I went into Crushbone expecting to be unstoppable, but still routinely died to orc legionaires :( like I wasn’t this Uber tank slaughtering mobs, I still felt relatively weak and wasn’t really able to solo at any level on my quest back to 60+

Meanwhile on p99 I can take a rogue with banded armor and a trak tooth and slaughter all of crushbine at low level ;)

I’m not bashing p99, it’s my fav game on the market by far, but I know some of this isn’t truly classic,lol.

[Jimjam]

a rando deleveled my rogue to level 6. I was super low level, but I had a ragebringer and full skyshrine

I routinely died to orc legionaires :( I wasn’t this Uber tank, I still felt weak and wasn’t able to solo back to 60+

on p99 I can take a rogue with banded armor and a trak tooth and slaughter all of crushbine at low level ;)
(Snipped)

P99 isn’t using the classic anti twinking code, it is using the sol/pop revamp. The by level worn AC caps were much more aggressive earlier on.

Also mob attack/ac values feel way off.

It’s not classic, but it is a very good effort.

[Troxx]

Yeah on p99 currently leveling up an extreme mega-twink is easy.

If I ever get completely burned out on EQ I have contemplated deleveling my modestly geared (but improving!) raid warrior ALLLLLLLL the way down just to have some fun grinding back up in proportionally ludicrous gear.

[Toxigen]

Yeah on p99 currently leveling up an extreme mega-twink is easy.

If I ever get completely burned out on EQ I have contemplated deleveling my modestly geared (but improving!) raid warrior ALLLLLLLL the way down just to have some fun grinding back up in proportionally ludicrous gear.

im just the opposite now...leveled all the mega twinks...its fun for the first couple but after being unkillable with zero need for caution its kinda boring

the only thing that would bring me back is a static trio solo self-funded (not self found, but the group starts with 0 plat / twinking, like they're new to the server maybe with the exception of bags / spells / QoL stuff)

i really want to do this with that all lizard necro / monk / shaman comp and do dungeons i never bothered with...not about leveling fast but going out there and getting upgrades without having to hit the tunnel, but being able to go to EC when you've scabbed enough plat together for HP rings and basic stuff

but its near impossible to find 2 others

[enjchanter]

I wouldn't even consider starting an alt without putting a couple hundred k in first

Like , we need full skyshrine minimum
Ft1 mandatory on anything with mana
Melee obviously need 36% haste + fungi bare minimum

Peggy cloak and jboots are a given

My 2nd enc and 2nd warrior both had ring 2 + cords before level 20

Literally no reason not to

[Toxigen]

ya that just doesnt appeal to me anymore since its nothing special these days

[Ripqozko]

ya that just doesnt appeal to me anymore since its nothing special these days

Nothing is special because the server died when we woke the sleeper 8 years ago, you are just living off our fumes. Most the folks here didnt even start until after the server was dead.

[Jimjam]

Cope

[Ripqozko]

Cope

like this one

[Toxigen]

Nothing is special because the server died when we woke the sleeper 8 years ago, you are just living off our fumes. Most the folks here didnt even start until after the server was dead.

sorry you dont got jet fuel hope this melts your beams

[PatChapp]

I wouldn't even consider starting an alt without putting a couple hundred k in first

Like , we need full skyshrine minimum
Ft1 mandatory on anything with mana
Melee obviously need 36% haste + fungi bare minimum

Peggy cloak and jboots are a given

My 2nd enc and 2nd warrior both had ring 2 + cords before level 20

Literally no reason not to

My 6.5k warrior doesn't have j boots
J boots are for the poors.
Real Chad's drink sow pots like candy

[Naethyn]

The 1% uses a katana.

[Troxx]

My 6.5k warrior doesn't have j boots
J boots are for the poors.
Real Chad's drink sow pots like candy

I’ve made it this far on my warrior without jboots. A 10 dose sow pot is 5 hours of continuous play (outdoors) when there isn’t someone around to sow you for free. Not bad if you’ve got a shaman alt that can produce them at cost.

[PatChapp]

I’ve made it this far on my warrior without jboots. A 10 dose sow pot is 5 hours of continuous play (outdoors) when there isn’t someone around to sow you for free. Not bad if you’ve got a shaman alt that can produce them at cost.

Making them sounds awful
Ibuy them 30 or 40 at a time and leave em on a mule for my various toons to grab.
My warrior is parked in kael and is a warrior so only logs in for raids. Even a single ten dose lasts months.

[Troxx]

Not that awful. One vendor in thurgadin right beside the bank. I can make myself a 6-18 month supply for all my toons in a few short minutes.

Aside from costing 33% less I have them on demand whenever. Zero time spent in the tunnel looking for a seller who has them in stock

[Toxigen]

Pocket shaman, this is cheating!!

[Troxx]

lol … I don’t think I’ll ever be able to see the word pocket on this forum again without giggling

[spoil]

i really want to do this with that all lizard necro / monk / shaman comp and do dungeons i never bothered with...not about leveling fast but going out there and getting upgrades without having to hit the tunnel, but being able to go to EC when you've scabbed enough plat together for HP rings and basic stuff

but its near impossible to find 2 others

I feel ready for something like this, but would only be interested in playing necro in that particular trio.

Otherwise I might just roll an enchanter on green. I have a 60 high elf and 60 human enchanter on blue, thinking gnome this time around.

[Toxigen]

I feel ready for something like this, but would only be interested in playing necro in that particular trio.

Otherwise I might just roll an enchanter on green. I have a 60 high elf and 60 human enchanter on blue, thinking gnome this time around.

if you ever find us a 3rd, hit me up...id play monk or shaman

[Ripqozko]

if you ever find us a 3rd, hit me up...id play monk or shaman

He chose a shm @dsm

[spoil]

lol

[Vexenu]

I feel ready for something like this, but would only be interested in playing necro in that particular trio.

Otherwise I might just roll an enchanter on green. I have a 60 high elf and 60 human enchanter on blue, thinking gnome this time around.

if you ever find us a 3rd, hit me up...id play monk or shaman

If you guys end up doing this you should make a thread documenting your leveling journey.

[Duik]

DSM died. Stunned repeatedly (from behind) interupting torpor tanking/slowing/rooting/dotting.

Sorry.

[spoil]

if you ever find us a 3rd, hit me up...id play monk or shaman

I'm not actively looking. But if you get the itch to play I'd be interested in doing some off the beaten path dungeons, maybe enc/nec duo or something.

[Toxigen]

I'm not actively looking. But if you get the itch to play I'd be interested in doing some off the beaten path dungeons, maybe enc/nec duo or something.

sent a group PM, bcbrown is interested too

[Toxigen]

If you guys end up doing this you should make a thread documenting your leveling journey.

it might be happening, and i will do this!

3 lizardbros starting naked and taking on the world...what could go wrong?

[Duik]

Chafing from the ill fitting leather and cloth picked up along the way?

[bcbrown]

Chafing from the ill fitting leather and cloth picked up along the way?

That's what the scales are for.

[Salaryman]

im just the opposite now...leveled all the mega twinks...its fun for the first couple but after being unkillable with zero need for caution its kinda boring

the only thing that would bring me back is a static trio solo self-funded (not self found, but the group starts with 0 plat / twinking, like they're new to the server maybe with the exception of bags / spells / QoL stuff)

i really want to do this with that all lizard necro / monk / shaman comp and do dungeons i never bothered with...not about leveling fast but going out there and getting upgrades without having to hit the tunnel, but being able to go to EC when you've scabbed enough plat together for HP rings and basic stuff

but its near impossible to find 2 others

Your right, pve servers are boring. Glad you found the Truth, I was begining to think you were a lost cause with that avatar that makes facial expressions that would get you kicked out of any real life situation.

[Duik]

Wow u really are stuck on that face mate. Maybe seek help. Or a pvp server with actual people on it.

[Toxigen]

Your right, pve servers are boring. Glad you found the Truth, I was begining to think you were a lost cause with that avatar that makes facial expressions that would get you kicked out of any real life situation.

im glad you're so triggered by an actor in a great movie scene