Ranger Geo Parsing (many weapons)

[Snaggles]

This is a continuation of this post which I figured should be organized as a new thread:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3763771&postcount=328

I did a lot more Geonid killing in WL trying to keep the stats as close as possible for comparison sake. No buffs like DS or Call of Fire which would mess with the parse. No proccing Avatar either since the upkeep is annoying. Lastly, when/if the geo ran I would turn to face it. Most the ones I fought were still blue but I wasn’t only killing blues. I did not fight shams intentionally but seems one snuck in below which I labeled. Ideally I would have done more than 5-10 fights per set, tried with and without Avatar, or even found a target that isn't a low/mid 40's npc since I do not think this will scale to raid mobs. That said...it's a pretty controlled test. Sorry again about the formatting.

https://wiki.project1999.com/index.php?title=Magelo_Blue:Blerv

Baton of Flame/Claw of Lightning 100%, no DS, no Avatar, no Call of Fire etc
Greater Wolf Form, SoN, CoTP, one AoB, Storm Strength
237 STR, 1352 Attack Power, 91% Haste (Dragon gloves + Sky cloak)

Total=Dmg=Time=DPS=Dmg to PC
7778=84=92=2159
7887=82=96=1251
7358=89=84=2280
7491=91=82=1700
7692=85=90=1919
7933=93=85=2535
7892=89=88=2886
7091=78=90=1364
7548=83=90=1837

Total Damage 75763
Total Time 852
Average DPS 88
Total Damage Taken 19451

Meljeldin 100%, no DS, no Avatar, no Call of Fire etc
Greater Wolf Form, SoN, CoTP, one AoB, Storm Strength
239 STR, 1353 Attack Power, 91% Haste (Dragon gloves + Sky cloak)

Total Dmg=Time=DPS=Dmg to PC
7964=106=75=2456
7302=79=92=1891
7544=91=82=2181
7563=89=85=1700
7195=70=102=1138
7744=83=93=1802
7853=99=79=2548
7967=86=92=1835
7409=73=101=2759
7544=96=78=1158

Total Damage 76085
Total Time 873
Average DPS 87
Total Damage Taken 19,468


Baton of Flame and Swiftwind 100%, no DS, no Avatar, no Call of Fire etc
Greater Wolf Form, SoN, CoTP, one AoB, Storm Strength
234 STR, 1389 Attack Power, 151 Dex, 91% Haste (Dragon gloves + Sky cloak

Mob=Total Dmg=Time=DPS=Dmg to PC
geo=7543=109=69=2247
geo=7307=85=85=1130
geo=7512=89=84=1892
geo=7362=91=80=1520
geo=7774=94=82=1723
geo=7507=99=76=1759
geo=7318=80=91=2598
geo=7939=95=83=2905
geo=7708=85=90=1599
geo=7920=103=76=1690

Total Damage 83,810
Total Time 1031
Average DPS 81

Essence Mace and Silver Whip of Rage 100%, no DS, no Avatar, no Call of Fire etc Greater Wolf Form, SoN, CoTP, one AoB, Storm Strength
227 STR, 1342 Attack Power, 154 Dex, 91% Haste (Dragon gloves + Sky cloak)

Mob=Total Dmg=Time=DPS=Dmg to PC
geo sham=7356=85=86=1261
geo=7711=95=81=1283
geo=7715=95=81=1579
geo=7401=88=84=1341
geo=7721=103=74=2185
geo=7088=82=86=1575
geo=7911=99=79=2235
geo=7080=80=88=1720
geo=7937=82=82=2232
geo=7108=89=79=1533
geo=7599=106=71=1775

Total Damage 90,704
Total Time 1148
Average DPS 79

Silver Whip of Rage and Swiftwind 100%, no DS, no Avatar, no Call of Fire etc
Greater Wolf Form, SoN, CoTP, one AoB, Storm Strength
234 STR, 1389 Attack Power, 151 Dex, 91% Haste (Dragon gloves + Sky cloak)

Mob=Total Dmg=Time=DPS=Dmg to PC
geo=7129=90=79=1010
geo=7562=101=74=906
geo=7742=105=73=1039
geo=7920=107=74=1705
geo=7518=101=74=1469
geo=7941=105=75=1595
geo=7506=100=75=978
geo=7367=92=80=2161
geo=7970=111=71=2086
geo=7508=101=74=1699

Total Damage 76,163
Total Time 1017
Average DPS 74

Earthcaller & Silver Whip of Rage /Silver Whip of Rage & Claw of Lightning on slow
No DS, no Avatar, no Call of Fire etc
Greater Wolf Form, SoN, CoTP, one AoB, Storm Strength
244 initial STR*, 1357 Attack Power, 91% Haste (Dragon gloves + Sky cloak)
*I forgot to get the swapped stats

Total Dmg=Time=DPS=Dmg to PC
6923=96=72=1223
7232=94=76=548
7276=96=75=2026
7184=92=78=836
7200=91=79=1053
7547=90=83=1330
7074=114=62=993
7903=120=65=1618
7165=97=73=1196
Total Damage 72722
Total Time 995
Average DPS 73
Total Damage Taken 11994

Earthcaller and Swiftwind 100%, no DS, no Avatar, no Call of Fire etc
Greater Wolf Form, SoN, CoTP, one AoB, Storm Strength
249 STR, 1403 Attack Power, 161 Dex, 91% Haste (Dragon gloves + Sky cloak)

Mob=Total Dmg=Time=DPS=Dmg to PC
geo 7323=107=68=1802
geo 7248=117=61=1971
geo 7761=101=76=1719
geo 7318=117=62=1690
geo 7723=122=63=2202

Total Damage 37,373
Total Time 570
Average DPS 65

Swarmcaller 100%, no DS, no Avatar, no Call of Fire etc
Greater Wolf Form, SoN, CoTP, one AoB, Storm Strength
227 STR, 1342 Attack Power, 154 Dex, 91% Haste (Dragon gloves + Sky cloak)

Mob=Total Dmg=Time=DPS=Dmg to PC
geo 7766=143=54=1900
geo 7668=161=47=2548
geo 7843=164=47=1909
geo 7399=139=53=1551
geo=7171=115=62=1714

Total Damage 37,847
Total Time 726.
Average DPS 52

[Vexenu]

The "Total Damage Taken" value is not provided for all of the weapon combos.

So at a glance it looks like the "max survivability" weapon combo of Earthcaller/Silver Whip provides 84% of the DPS of the "max DPS" weapons, while allowing the player to take only 62% of the damage.

Definitely supports the contention that EC/SW is the superior choice for any sort of solo sustained killing.

[Snaggles]

The "Total Damage Taken" value is not provided for all of the weapon combos.

So at a glance it looks like the "max survivability" weapon combo of Earthcaller/Silver Whip provides 84% of the DPS of the "max DPS" weapons, while allowing the player to take only 62% of the damage.

Definitely supports the contention that EC/SW is the superior choice for any sort of solo sustained killing.

Yea I didn’t keep noting the damage taken summary. As I recall, that other thread was debating if you take more damage slowing and swapping or using a better ratio weapon(s). This second batch was done very late, the lack of consistency is annoying in this morning.

Slowing is definitely the sustainable route. It wasn’t even that rough soloing with a Swarmcaller which is just crummy dps.

The EC/Rune whip was the only set which I slowed and then swapped in the Claw of Lightning and main handed the whip. I might try a set of just EC/Whip 100% the time. The dps wouldn’t be nearly as high.

[kjs86z2]

love seeing rune whip still out there being BiS for any situation where dmg taken is a thing

kinda surprised the top 2 (dw vs 2 hand) had basically the exact same dmg taken....youd think it would be a lot less with 2H

[Belambic]

Luckily, BIS 2H weapons have much higher damage than 1H which helps compensate for the delay differences.

[Crede]

So all those people who say to skip epics and just get the big 2hnder with swarmcaller it should really be get earthcaller as soon as possible along with the whip because the swiftwind is really what’s holding you back.

[bcbrown]

Cool, thanks for doing this. Grats on the Essence Mace! Are you including the proc in the damage parse? It's a lifetap so it's also healing you, right?

Meljeldin
Total Damage 76085
Total Time 873
Average DPS 87
Total Damage Taken 19468

Earthcaller & Silver Whip of Rage /Silver Whip of Rage & Claw of Lightning on slow
Total Damage 72722
Total Time 995
Average DPS 73
Total Damage Taken 11994

So Meljeldin takes 2 minutes less time for 10 kills, but you take 7474 more damage. 7 hp sitting + 10 for chloro and 15 for fungi gives 32 hp/tick and 21 mana/tick. 20 ticks means you'll recover 640 hp and 420 mana, which when used for Greater Healing results in a total 1396 hp recovered. DW seems clearly better in this scenario.

Qualitatively, which one felt the smoothest or most pleasant?

[Snaggles]

Thanks! I really am liking the Essence Mace; yea it’s a 80pt tap but is magic based -200 check like a typical life tap. Both it and the BoF have DD’s which I’m factoring in with the parses. In most cases I was 145-165 Dex so those might perform better if I had capped from Avatar or a sham buff. If the mob resists those spells though it certainly tips the scale to something like a Meljeldin.

Of the options I’d say the Earthcaller and offhand Silver Whip or the EM/Silver Whip felt the most comfortable. In each situation I feel the offhand whip is a great slot fill since it’s doing decent DPS and every proc feels substantial. That and I would often start each next fight with the rune live since it would often proc on a fleeing mob.

[Goregasmic]

So all those people who say to skip epics and just get the big 2hnder with swarmcaller it should really be get earthcaller as soon as possible along with the whip because the swiftwind is really what’s holding you back.

Swarmcaller is a junk ratio and swapping is annoying, EC is a good ranger life goal for QOL. Swiftwind is an easy source of 40% haste and the only droppable OH that beats its ratio is BOC by a measly 5% so considering haste they're basically the same. If you can get SW you're a MQ away from EC. I've never seen anyone advocate hanging onto SW. Unless you can get your hands on both 41% worn and a better OH, epics combo remains the best option for a lot of people.

Swarmcaller could work with a meljeldin if for some reason you never solo and never wanted fo bother with epics but you're denying yourself some options.



Good work snaggles! Always interesting to see parses.

[kjs86z2]

swarmcaller is just budget slow til epic and 100% worth it to open with every mob if solo

[Goregasmic]

swarmcaller is just budget slow til epic and 100% worth it to open with every mob if solo

Yeah I still use it every mob and EC would be a great QOL upgrade that's why I'm saying I'm not sure why you'd dismiss epics unless you have access to a cheap meldeljin or something and even then you're still stuck swapping for an inferior weapon.

[Jimjam]

Sw super easy, do it for craic and fill out that 40% haste at 46 until you can replace.

Honestly my 60 ranger still uses one and swaps primary between ec and tunare braid.

[Snaggles]

TBH, I thought the Swamcaller would be closer to the Earthcaller at this point with the 2h changes. I still carry one though since for 500p it’s hard not to and makes for that one-click swap.

I think the EC and claw are a bit closer than my test showed (one SW parse was 69 which is far below the rest). Taking that out the average of the BoF/SW would jump to 83 vs 88 with the BoF/claw. The SW might even be closer on higher level mobs where the hit low/high spread is greater.

The Tunare braid is another underrated weapon. 50/tick from that dot is just over 8dps when active. Very similar to the SK epic (minus the tap aspect). If it lands on the fight, that dot is really pumping up your numbers despite not showing up on the public parse.

There are a lot of solid raid upgrades for a ranger that aren’t a ton of points. A Meljeldin or Shovel would be one-stop shopping and are the cheapest way to check that BiS ratio goal. A primal 2h is cheap and synergizes well with them. Even with worn haste and shiss that one-two swap is the best way to really good raid numbers outside a BFG.

[TytosOfEight]

Swiftwind may shine when the changes to Archery drop. That bonus Atk in the offhand will be unbeatable.

[Snaggles]

Oh yea, or with the BFG. Im sure it’s still BiS for that.

The Swiftwind is a very fun and easy quest that provides a solid item. There is a better case for it than against it.

[Awsten_Tx]

This is a continuation of this post which I figured should be organized as a new thread:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3763771&postcount=328

I did a lot more Geonid killing in WL trying to keep the stats as close as possible for comparison sake. No buffs like DS or Call of Fire which would mess with the parse. No proccing Avatar either since the upkeep is annoying. Lastly, when/if the geo ran I would turn to face it. Most the ones I fought were still blue but I wasn’t only killing blues. I did not fight shams intentionally but seems one snuck in below which I labeled. Ideally I would have done more than 5-10 fights per set, tried with and without Avatar, or even found a target that isn't a low/mid 40's npc since I do not think this will scale to raid mobs. That said...it's a pretty controlled test. Sorry again about the formatting.

https://wiki.project1999.com/index.php?title=Magelo_Blue:Blerv

Baton of Flame/Claw of Lightning 100%, no DS, no Avatar, no Call of Fire etc
Greater Wolf Form, SoN, CoTP, one AoB, Storm Strength
237 STR, 1352 Attack Power, 91% Haste (Dragon gloves + Sky cloak)

Total=Dmg=Time=DPS=Dmg to PC
7778=84=92=2159
7887=82=96=1251
7358=89=84=2280
7491=91=82=1700
7692=85=90=1919
7933=93=85=2535
7892=89=88=2886
7091=78=90=1364
7548=83=90=1837

Total Damage 75763
Total Time 852
Average DPS 88
Total Damage Taken 19451

Meljeldin 100%, no DS, no Avatar, no Call of Fire etc
Greater Wolf Form, SoN, CoTP, one AoB, Storm Strength
239 STR, 1353 Attack Power, 91% Haste (Dragon gloves + Sky cloak)

Total Dmg=Time=DPS=Dmg to PC
7964=106=75=2456
7302=79=92=1891
7544=91=82=2181
7563=89=85=1700
7195=70=102=1138
7744=83=93=1802
7853=99=79=2548
7967=86=92=1835
7409=73=101=2759
7544=96=78=1158

Total Damage 76085
Total Time 873
Average DPS 87
Total Damage Taken 19,468


Baton of Flame and Swiftwind 100%, no DS, no Avatar, no Call of Fire etc
Greater Wolf Form, SoN, CoTP, one AoB, Storm Strength
234 STR, 1389 Attack Power, 151 Dex, 91% Haste (Dragon gloves + Sky cloak

Mob=Total Dmg=Time=DPS=Dmg to PC
geo=7543=109=69=2247
geo=7307=85=85=1130
geo=7512=89=84=1892
geo=7362=91=80=1520
geo=7774=94=82=1723
geo=7507=99=76=1759
geo=7318=80=91=2598
geo=7939=95=83=2905
geo=7708=85=90=1599
geo=7920=103=76=1690

Total Damage 83,810
Total Time 1031
Average DPS 81

Essence Mace and Silver Whip of Rage 100%, no DS, no Avatar, no Call of Fire etc Greater Wolf Form, SoN, CoTP, one AoB, Storm Strength
227 STR, 1342 Attack Power, 154 Dex, 91% Haste (Dragon gloves + Sky cloak)

Mob=Total Dmg=Time=DPS=Dmg to PC
geo sham=7356=85=86=1261
geo=7711=95=81=1283
geo=7715=95=81=1579
geo=7401=88=84=1341
geo=7721=103=74=2185
geo=7088=82=86=1575
geo=7911=99=79=2235
geo=7080=80=88=1720
geo=7937=82=82=2232
geo=7108=89=79=1533
geo=7599=106=71=1775

Total Damage 90,704
Total Time 1148
Average DPS 79

Silver Whip of Rage and Swiftwind 100%, no DS, no Avatar, no Call of Fire etc
Greater Wolf Form, SoN, CoTP, one AoB, Storm Strength
234 STR, 1389 Attack Power, 151 Dex, 91% Haste (Dragon gloves + Sky cloak)

Mob=Total Dmg=Time=DPS=Dmg to PC
geo=7129=90=79=1010
geo=7562=101=74=906
geo=7742=105=73=1039
geo=7920=107=74=1705
geo=7518=101=74=1469
geo=7941=105=75=1595
geo=7506=100=75=978
geo=7367=92=80=2161
geo=7970=111=71=2086
geo=7508=101=74=1699

Total Damage 76,163
Total Time 1017
Average DPS 74

Earthcaller & Silver Whip of Rage /Silver Whip of Rage & Claw of Lightning on slow
No DS, no Avatar, no Call of Fire etc
Greater Wolf Form, SoN, CoTP, one AoB, Storm Strength
244 initial STR*, 1357 Attack Power, 91% Haste (Dragon gloves + Sky cloak)
*I forgot to get the swapped stats

Total Dmg=Time=DPS=Dmg to PC
6923=96=72=1223
7232=94=76=548
7276=96=75=2026
7184=92=78=836
7200=91=79=1053
7547=90=83=1330
7074=114=62=993
7903=120=65=1618
7165=97=73=1196
Total Damage 72722
Total Time 995
Average DPS 73
Total Damage Taken 11994

Earthcaller and Swiftwind 100%, no DS, no Avatar, no Call of Fire etc
Greater Wolf Form, SoN, CoTP, one AoB, Storm Strength
249 STR, 1403 Attack Power, 161 Dex, 91% Haste (Dragon gloves + Sky cloak)

Mob=Total Dmg=Time=DPS=Dmg to PC
geo 7323=107=68=1802
geo 7248=117=61=1971
geo 7761=101=76=1719
geo 7318=117=62=1690
geo 7723=122=63=2202

Total Damage 37,373
Total Time 570
Average DPS 65

Swarmcaller 100%, no DS, no Avatar, no Call of Fire etc
Greater Wolf Form, SoN, CoTP, one AoB, Storm Strength
227 STR, 1342 Attack Power, 154 Dex, 91% Haste (Dragon gloves + Sky cloak)

Mob=Total Dmg=Time=DPS=Dmg to PC
geo 7766=143=54=1900
geo 7668=161=47=2548
geo 7843=164=47=1909
geo 7399=139=53=1551
geo=7171=115=62=1714

Total Damage 37,847
Total Time 726.
Average DPS 52

Thanks for the post, this is good information. My onl;y critique is population size. I would prefer to see alot more data points for each weapon set. I did a bunch of testing on AIH for ranger weapon combos and this data supports those findings.

Although it doesnt "parse" you will find the braid of golden hair actually outperforms the claw of lightning in the offhand by a couple dps.

I have a pdf of my report and the backup data available if you want it from my AIH testing. you are welcome to review.

[Snaggles]

Thanks for the post, this is good information. My onl;y critique is population size. I would prefer to see alot more data points for each weapon set. I did a bunch of testing on AIH for ranger weapon combos and this data supports those findings.

Although it doesnt "parse" you will find the braid of golden hair actually outperforms the claw of lightning in the offhand by a couple dps.

I have a pdf of my report and the backup data available if you want it from my AIH testing. you are welcome to review.

I completely agree this is not a sample size I’m happy with. Glad it’s not too far off base though!

I’d love to see your testing and will certainly pick up a Braid. Makes sense it would outrun the claw if the dot lands…that’s 8dps alone while ticking.

[Cecily]

If proc don't proc then procless worse weapon is worse. If proc procs, you get 200 damage over 24 seconds. I don't care for that weapon.

[Awsten_Tx]

but proc weapons...

do...

proc...

like saying if primal doesnt proc. Doesnt mean its not good. Logic isnt logicing

[Snaggles]

If you get an early proc though you can swap in the CoL for a net positive of 8.3dps for 24 seconds. It’s like a second avatar.

[Cecily]

but proc weapons...

do...

proc...

like saying if primal doesnt proc. Doesnt mean its not good. Logic isnt logicing
Can't rely on offhand proc proccing. So when it doesn't proc, it does not in fact proc. The utility of the gimmick is that you get 8.3 extra DPS over 24 seconds and your 1 PPM isn't going to achieve that sustained over every fight. So even if your proc procs is it procing enough? I like reliable weapons with better ratios.

[Awsten_Tx]

Can't rely on offhand proc proccing. So when it doesn't proc, it does not in fact proc. The utility of the gimmick is that you get 8.3 extra DPS over 24 seconds and your 1 PPM isn't going to achieve that sustained over every fight.

testing and data says otherwise :shrug:

[Snaggles]

Dots are easier to upkeep though. It’s a question of if you want to trade roughly 9% ratio for the gamble of picking up about 30% more dps (from that slot) for 24 seconds, and if you will refresh before it fades.

Going back to the rogue example, if a bad one still beats me 3 times to every 1 of my wins…technically they are a better dps option.

[bcbrown]

I have a pdf of my report and the backup data available if you want it from my AIH testing. you are welcome to review.

I would love to see this as well.

[Awsten_Tx]

I would love to see this as well.

Send me your discord, ill send it over

[Kich867]

Dots are easier to upkeep though. It’s a question of if you want to trade roughly 9% ratio for the gamble of picking up about 30% more dps (from that slot) for 24 seconds, and if you will refresh before it fades.

Isn't this somewhat easy to nuke out? Bop things, track number of attacks and procs, come to a rough approximate of what your % chance to proc is, boil that down to an average damage per second and add it to your dps?

Whether it refreshes itself isn't really important for simulations, you're just coming up with the DOT's average uptime from the proc based on your proc chance.

[Snaggles]

Isn't this somewhat easy to nuke out? Bop things, track number of attacks and procs, come to a rough approximate of what your % chance to proc is, boil that down to an average damage per second and add it to your dps?

Whether it refreshes itself isn't really important for simulations, you're just coming up with the DOT's average uptime from the proc based on your proc chance.

Yea, you certainly could. Or, just parse a bunch of similar kills and look at the average kill time of one weapon set from the other. Or better yet, find a consistent npc that always respawns with the same hps and level.

Roughly speaking on a 6,000 hp npc your offhand is doing about 1/3rd the total damage. 1/3rd is 2000 hit points. On ratio alone, a CoL vs a Braid is about 9% (200hps). On that basis if the dot goes one full cycle in roughly the 100 seconds (presuming 100dps), they tie. If whip doesn’t proc until just past 70 seconds (30% health) the claw wins.

At least that’s how it makes sense in my head. I’m not great at math so would rather get a whip and just do what I did here since it’s fairly controlled.

[Naethyn]

Silver Swiftblade and upgrade into Meljeldin, Bane of Giants.

[Awsten_Tx]

Silver Swiftblade and upgrade into Meljeldin, Bane of Giants.

ive said many times, if you want a budget dps setup, and dont plan to trick out your ranger, Yeli gloves into Bane of Giants is a solid play for sure.

The other fantastic budget setup is Kriezenn's flame paired with Swiftwind.

My problem with bane of giants, its not a great stat/resist stick AND it loses out of the utility of 1 hand procs, which for rangers is just huge....

[Naethyn]

2 handers work better on dragons

[Awsten_Tx]

Got data and parses to back that up or is this a trust me bro situation...?

[Jimjam]

2 handers work better on dragons

“”””bane of giants”””” is a bluff?!

[Snaggles]

Meljeldin will result in far less enrage deaths. Also, easier to start in right away and just keep jolting without any dps loss (it’s my gold standard for VS/R). It’s a cheap buy since it’s mostly bought by knights and rangers. Primal axes are the second cheapest Avatar weapon so the budget synergy is really nice.

I swap weapons all the time. Sometimes function, often to avoid being bored. The Essence mace and Vyemm whip is a worse combo for killing vindi but better for surviving and is +35 MR over the 2h (see below).

[Naethyn]

Obvious to those who know.

[Awsten_Tx]

Meljeldin will result in far less enrage deaths. Also, easier to start in right away and just keep jolting without any dps loss (it’s my gold standard for VS/R). It’s a cheap buy since it’s mostly bought by knights and rangers. Primal axes are the second cheapest Avatar weapon so the budget synergy is really nice.

I swap weapons all the time. Sometimes function, often to avoid being bored. The Essence mace and Vyemm whip is a worse combo for killing vindi but better for surviving and is +35 MR over the 2h (see below).

If dying to enrage is a problem, you have bigger things to worry about than min maxing your ranger dps...

[Awsten_Tx]

Obvious to those who know.

ok its a trust me bro situation... got it...

[Snaggles]

If dying to enrage is a problem, you have bigger things to worry about than min maxing your ranger dps...

Luckily knight tanking is common place as is burning scepters. It’s not a common problem and definitely not one a DW fan can’t adapt to.

[Crede]

ive said many times, if you want a budget dps setup, and dont plan to trick out your ranger, Yeli gloves into Bane of Giants is a solid play for sure.

The other fantastic budget setup is Kriezenn's flame paired with Swiftwind.

My problem with bane of giants, its not a great stat/resist stick AND it loses out of the utility of 1 hand procs, which for rangers is just huge....

Yea if you’re trying to top dps with bane 2h as a ranger then you’ve already lost. 1h all day for way better stats / procs / utility / sustain

[Cecily]

Yea if you’re trying to top dps with bane 2h as a ranger then you’ve already lost. 1h all day for way better stats / procs / utility / sustain
It's like a 5'7" guy calling a 5' 6" guy short.

[Jimjam]

The best expertise is the lived experience.

[Snaggles]

As a slippery slope argument against optimizing dps, a ranger might as well get a Shovel of the Harvest over a Meljeldin. It’s less than a 1% worse ratio weapon considering the damage bonus and you can summon food with it.

Being able to live on burnt bread and Fuzzlecutter Formula 5000 would be end-game bag management.

[Cecily]

Shovels are objectively less cool than claymores.

[bcbrown]

Snaggles' parses inspired me to do some more parsing of my own, and I finally got the time to do so this past week. I had two aims: 1) measure the gap between the DPS a raid-geared 60 ranger can do and that of an EC-geared level 59 ranger without any AoB items, and 2) look into whether it's worth getting Swiftwind and a good mainhand for a ranger who already has a good EC 2h weapon.

I buffed with Storm Strength, SoN, Call of Earth, Spikecoat, and Skin Like Nature. For the initial set of Shady fights I used Greater Wolf Form, but for the Basher Nanrum parses and the follow-up Shady parses I skipped Greater Wolf Form. For all 1h weapons the offhand was Swiftwind (40% haste), while the 2-handers had 34% from the seahorse belt. No proc damage is included in these calculations.

First, Shady:


A Shady Swashbuckler
weapon time damage dps
bfg trueshot 281 11483 40.86
bfg 513 16841 32.83
spade 2 491 14285 29.09
sboz 477 12903 27.05
spade 1009 26915 26.67
spade 3 990 25673 25.93
rev whip 661 17082 25.84
infestation 2 755 18871 24.99
fellspine 573 14304 24.96
infestation 284 6742 23.74
swarmcaller 2 610 13945 22.86
swarmcaller 768 16530 21.52


Interestingly, the only weapons that could kill Shady were BFG and Swarmcaller, the highest and lowest DPS. While first parsing Infestation I realized I was about 15 points from capping Piercing skill, so I returned after capping it and reparsed. I also initially had a data-entry error with the Herbalist's Spade that showed it with similar DPS to the swarmcaller, which is why I returned for a couple more parses with both the spade and the swarmcaller.

One other nice side effect of re-parsing the same weapon is showing how even after 500-1000 seconds there's still a lot of variation in the final DPS numbers. So even though I'm showing four significant digits all these results should be treated as being +/- 2-3 DPS.

Shady apparently has as much AC as some of the harder raid targets, so this test was meant to be a proxy for raid dps. I was specifically curious if the low delay of the rev whip would help it break away from fellspine or infestation, but although it was the highest of the three the differences are all within the margin of error.

For group/xp fighting I picked Basher Nanrum as a target. This was mostly because he was conveniently close to the tunnel, but he's also a static level, and at 15k hp it was possible to run longer parses than the other bashers in Grobb.


Basher Nanrum
weapon time damage dps
disc bfg 96 7695 80.16
bfg 400 22468 56.17
sboz 487 23053 47.34
spade 350 15291 43.69
fellspine 455 18302 40.22
rev whip 422 16852 39.93
swarmcaller 467 15489 33.17


The rankings were mostly the same as against Shady, but with higher numbers. The parse lengths are shorter than against Shady, partially because it's more annoying to reset the fight, partially because doing all these parses and analyzing them takes a long time and I was starting to flag on the project.

Regarding the second aim, trying to see whether someone with a good 2-hander should try to get a Swiftwind, I'd conclude that Swiftwind will indeed do more dps, but not until you get a sboz or better to pair with it, and it'll only be slightly better than an herbalist's spade. It's also worth reiterating that this isn't with equivalent haste: the 2-handers had 34% while the 1-handers got 40% plus the atk boost from Swiftwind.

Regarding the second aim, comparing dps to Snaggles, I'd like to normalize haste, because I'm less interested in the benefit from having the sky cloak (50% spell haste is obviously and straightforwardly better than 0 spell haste). I don't find that sort of conversion to be especially intuitive, but I think the right way to convert from 40% haste to 91% haste is to multiply by 1.91/1.4 or 1.36, and 1.91/1.34 or 1.43 for 34% haste. I'm not going to worry about how different Basher Nanrum is from geonids from an AC perspective; it should be fairly comparable I think.

Snaggles got 52 DPS with Swarmcaller, 70-90 DPS with the other weapons. Normalized to 91% haste I got 45 with Swarmcaller, 64 with sboz/swiftwind, and 76 with non-Trueshot bfg/swiftwind. So a clear gap, but pretty cool to see it's not too big.

Lastly, I'd like to thank Goregasmic for lending me the Herbalist's Spade.

[Keebz]

From the peanut gallery, I like parsing against a mob that is a known constant level. Level variance makes such a massive difference. That said, I think keeping haste / ATK values equal is pretty important. For haste, you gotta raid, but for ATK, you should be able to normalize with buffs. If outdoors, doggo form is equivalent to Swiftwind iirc, or you can fudge it with SoN or AoB / Firefist / Grim Aura.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

From the peanut gallery, I like parsing against a mob that is a known constant level. Level variance makes such a massive difference. That said, I think keeping haste / ATK values equal is pretty important. For haste, you gotta raid, but for ATK, you should be able to normalize with buffs. If outdoors, doggo form is equivalent to Swiftwind iirc, or you can fudge it with SoN or AoB / Firefist / Grim Aura.

I'm the same way. I avoid parsing mobs with level variance as much as possible. Corudoth is usually my favorite parsing target when you want to simply figure out the best case scenario for whatever you are trying to parse. Same with buffs. I try to make sure everything is consistent across parses.

[Snaggles]

Very good stuff!! Thanks for the notable contribution!!

I have some old Shady parses somewhere but of course can’t find them. He’s definitely an ego bruiser.

Nanrum would be a good target. Geos ended up being my go-to since my ranger was parked at Kael or ST for a long time. I’m not sure the level variance affects the parse too much but it has to have a bit of an impact. The Storm Giant Escort would be better for consistency as another fellow poster used.

[bcbrown]

From the peanut gallery, I like parsing against a mob that is a known constant level. Level variance makes such a massive difference. That said, I think keeping haste / ATK values equal is pretty important. For haste, you gotta raid, but for ATK, you should be able to normalize with buffs. If outdoors, doggo form is equivalent to Swiftwind iirc, or you can fudge it with SoN or AoB / Firefist / Grim Aura.

Parsing against a mob with a known constant level certainly helps remove some variation, but even parses against mobs with level variance can be useful as long as you acknowledge they'll be noisier. It probably takes something like a half hour per weaponset to get the margin of error below 1 DPS anyway, so none of these parses really should be treated as rock-solid anyway.

It also depends on what question you're trying to answer. I was trying to answer the question "for a 50s ranger is it worth upgrading from an EC 2-hander to swiftwind, and if so what mainhand do you need." For that question, a large part of the appeal of Swiftwind is the extra haste and ATK. Trying to normalize with buffs or gear swaps would obscure rather than clarify. For the same reason I don't think parsing against a level 5 mob provides much insight for this question, even though it's a useful target for something like proc rates or dodge/parry rates.

Very good stuff!! Thanks for the notable contribution!!

I have some old Shady parses somewhere but of course can’t find them. He’s definitely an ego bruiser.

Thanks! You posted a pair of Shady parses here (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3742629#post3742629), which is where I got the idea. You had 47/48 DPS with 91% haste. Normalizing haste values from my parse, I would have 54 dps with bfg trueshot, 43 with bfg w/o disc, 36 with sboz/swiftwind, ~37-41 with spade.

[Snaggles]

Ah very nice. Thanks for expanding the Shady info with your work and calculations :) . I’ll try to do more with shady and mix in the 2h. It might be the best way to see how the damage bonus works on raid targets.

I’m slowly doing some storm giant escort parsing with avatar which I hope will be more consistent than the geos (or at least is less disputable). Allegedly they are all level 45 despite having a few hundred hitpoint variance.

[PatChapp]

The 2 barbarians in qeynos at the bank are identicle mobs,always spawn the same level(45) no variance at all. Not the highest ac,but would be good baseline. They have faction but its just them,and the banker.