Chainmail Patterns

[Webwolf]

NPCs who should sell Chainmail Patterns are not selling them. Blacksmiths usually need to make ornate chain mail to skill up between banded and fine plate. I checked both NPCs that are supposed to sell them in Neriak (small and large) and as of right now they don't carry it. I suspect this also holds true for the other vendors in other cities.

I also noticed that the Ornate Chain mail recipes are not showing on the recipe search window in the forge.

[nilbog]

Ornate chain is not classic. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[Scrubby McGee]

The banded trivial levels are too low for classic. I honestly don't know what they were in classic, but I remember them being higher than 115.

Both the Plate trivials and the banded trivials were lowered when Cultural armor was added in the tail end of luclin. I'm sure some other trivs were lowered too.

I don't know how to find out what they are, though. Currently, I'm trying to search old smithing walkthroughs for the 8th shawl hoping I can find one made before the change.

The EQ traders forum only allows searches up to 2003, so no luck there.

I'm not really good at searching for things, though.

I did find this old guide in EQ traders that supports my argument, but doesn't contain the entire trivial list of what the trivial levels actually were.

http://www.eqtraders.com/articles/article_page.php?article=g108&menustr=040100000000

Additionally, the entire Wu's ensemble isn't classic. Only the gloves were in the game when I started right before Kunark.

I do not remember plate being made until much later, when they added the dye components to the game. Plate shouldn't be made at all at this point in time, but it's been available for too long now especially before the sol ro armor when it shouldn't have existed. I think this was also when the skinning knife was added. In classic, you got what skins dropped and couldn't drop them down a grade with the knife.

From a post in http://mboards.eqtraders.com/eq/showthread.php?9079-Fine-Plate-trivials-on-Test there is the words:
"Once upon a time, You could go all the way to 248 with Fine Steel. There were fewer 250 smiths then than there are now."

It may be possible to contact the people who run EQ traders and see if they have any old trivial list archives.

Another edit: Dairy spoon was added in luclin.

EQ traders has clearly updated/changed site code, so I'm not even sure if the old trivs are still around.

I'm going to start pulling trivials from the thread http://mboards.eqtraders.com/eq/showthread.php?32-Post-Smithing-trivial-updates-HERE/page2 if I can

It lists the trivs when stuff was updated, it's a long thread, maybe there's a summary.

Edit also:
http://mboards.eqtraders.com/eq/member.php?7653-Niami-DenMother created the site, so if anyone knows where the information is, she does.

[Jify]

Don't forget Teir'Dal cultural armor! :(

[Webwolf]

Can we get back to the subject? Ornate chain. I remember making ornate chain very early but it is possible that kunark or velious was already out.

[Webwolf]

After looking at this list (http://eqtraders.com/articles/article_page.php?article=g28&menustr=080000000000) on eqtraders.com I am almost certain that ornate chain is classic. It's also listed here (http://eqtraders.com/articles/article_page.php?article=g57&menustr=080100000000) under basic armors.

[Scrubby McGee]

The classic era skillup chart that claimed at the time the highest you could skillup was 168 and that was on banded.

There was no Ornate chain at the time. It was added later.

Tradeskills were horribly unfinished on release.

[nilbog]

After looking at this list (http://eqtraders.com/articles/article_page.php?article=g28&menustr=080000000000) on eqtraders.com I am almost certain that ornate chain is classic. It's also listed here (http://eqtraders.com/articles/article_page.php?article=g57&menustr=080100000000) under basic armors.


The links you posted are from...

Created: 2003-06-19 07:36:50
Created: 2003-07-08 11:48:02

If you can find some evidence of its existence prior to 2002, post it up. This was actually a submission by beta testers that it should be removed.

[Webwolf]

I can't find anything on the entire internet that mentions the introduction of Ornate Chain Armor and I think it's probably because it was never introduced as part of an expansion. Also the fact that there is a huge gap in between banded armor and fine plate to me is a sign that there is something wrong. I clearly remember making ornate chain after I was done with banded back in the day. But since I can't find proof of either there is a chance I could be wrong.

[Webwolf]

More interesting facts about this:

The initial entry date on Lucy for all 3 basic armor sets (banded, ornate chain and fine plate) is the same 2002-12-22 which I is probably when Lucy launched so that doesn't help very much.

After looking at the Expansion Specific Groupings on this list of recipes (http://eqtraders.com/articles/article_page.php?article=g28&menustr=080000000000) it seems that Kunark didn't add any new trade skills recipes and while Velious did add new recipes, pretty much all of them used Velium.
I know you pointed out that this list was created in 2003 but it's very difficult to find EQ related websites that date prior to 2002.

This is so intriguing...

[Webwolf]

Scrubby, I was too quick to dismiss your comments my appologies for that. It seems like you are correct, if there is no Ornate Chain then the trivial levels for both Banded Armor and Fine Plate are too low. After me not being able to find any dates on the introduction of Ornate Chain I started this thread on EQTraders (http://mboards.eqtraders.com/eq/showthread.php?34114-Was-Ornate-Chain-Armor-Released-with-EQ-Classic) asking for help on tracking down the date when Ornate Chain came out. The overal consensus is that Ornate Chain was added thru a patch at some point between Classic and Kunark, but before it was introduced the trivial levels for Banded and Fine Plate were alot higher.

So that would put the devs in a situation (assuming they would pursue this) where they need to either increase the trivial levels for banded to close the gap or add ornate chain back to the mix. I recommend adding back ornate chain as banded is too cheap to make and it would make it very easy to reach fine plate.

[Scrubby McGee]

Yeah, probably the best path is to introduce ornate chain with the plane of Sky.

I wouldn't worry about plate being difficult to make now. It wasn't supposed to be in at this point in time. Also, it's going to be lower in trivial levels compared to what it was on live up until Luclin.

I'd also wager that it has the code for the boosted skillup levels for smithing and tailoring that also came in that time.

[MutualofOmaha]

Ornate chain was definitely not classic, it was added in some time after Velious launched but before Luclin.

Blacksmithing skillups after banded were always a pain in the rear in classic. This is what made blacksmiths of high level extremely rare, as most players stopped smithing once they trivialed out in banded.

Fine plate was smithable before Kunark, as were fine plate armor dyes. I cannot remember exactly when fine plate recipes were added, but I remember buying evergreen leaves from newbies in Greater Faydark in the weeks leading up to the Kunark launch, because there wasn't much else to do besides make colored armor to sell.

[Webwolf]

Ok after alot of research I finally found the exact date of when Ornate Chain was introduced. If you look up EQtraders on web.archive.org (http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.eqtraders.com) and click on the Feb 03, 2001 (http://web.archive.org/web/20010203233300/http://www.eqtraders.com/index.html) archive then click on recipes (http://web.archive.org/web/20001216095700/http://www.eqtraders.com/secrets/main.html) you will see Ornate Chain listed under advanced recipes (9/19/00 patch) (http://web.archive.org/web/20010105182800/http://www.eqtraders.com/secrets/advanced_smith.html).

The patch note for September 19, 2000 (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-2000-2.html) confirms the addition of several new recipes:

*Trade Skills Enhanced*

Many of the trade skills in game have received massive enhancements,
including dozens of new craftable items, new fishing and foraging
items, and other things to be discovered once in game.

In addition, trade-skill specialization has been implemented. Players
will be able to exceed 200 points of skill in ONE of the generally
available tradeskills. This includes:

- Baking
- Blacksmithing
- Brewing
- Jewelcraft
- Tailoring
- Fletching
- Pottery

Once above 200 points in one of these skills, no other skill will be
able to exceed 200. Specialization restrictions do not include class or
race-specific trade skills such as Alchemy, Make Poison, and Tinkering.
Players with race or class-specific trade skills will be able to exceed
200 points of skill in that skill, PLUS any generally available trade
skill.

The enhancement of trade skills is an on-going project. Further
enhancements will be made in the coming weeks.

That pin points Ornate Chain as being introduced on September 19, 2000 which is post Kunark: Release Date: 3/31/00 but prior to Velious: Release Date:12/04/00. And with that we can put this to rest.

[maultar]

But to quote Nilbog - "If you can find some evidence of its existence prior to 2002, post it up. This was actually a submission by beta testers that it should be removed."
Does that mean he will now add the stuff needed to make ornate?

Also on that Sept 2000 patch note it says you can go beyond 200, does that too mean we should add that as well? What stuff allowed you to go beyond 200?

[Webwolf]

Maultar I belive Nilbog mixed up the year. As I posted above ornate chain was introduced post Kunark, so it should be added after Kunark comes out, and the same goes for the higher skill limits.

[maultar]

So can one get "spanked" for making things they know should be post kunark? There are other places you can buy chainmail patterns I will check freeport today.

[Phorest]

The links you posted are from...

Created: 2003-06-19 07:36:50
Created: 2003-07-08 11:48:02

If you can find some evidence of its existence prior to 2002, post it up. This was actually a submission by beta testers that it should be removed.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=3721

The player postings about this item are from early 2001.

[nilbog]

The patch note for September 19, 2000 (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-2000-2.html) confirms the addition of several new recipes:

Good researching Webwolf. It will be returned prior to Velious.


But to quote Nilbog - "If you can find some evidence of its existence prior to 2002, post it up. This was actually a submission by beta testers that it should be removed."
Does that mean he will now add the stuff needed to make ornate?

This means if someone could find a date of when it should be added to the game, *prior* to luclin, that it would be added appropriately. Looks like I add it a few months before Velious.

So can one get "spanked" for making things they know should be post kunark? There are other places you can buy chainmail patterns I will check freeport today.

Do you mean can you get in trouble for producing items you know shouldn't be around? Just report non-classic items as bugs or petition/exploit, and they will be removed.