Discussion: Play Nice (Training, Bind Camping)

[greatdane]

Doesn't take a prophet to predict that training causes huge problems. I don't see what positive points there are to allowing training, except that it'll take less GM administration. Since PvP itself will solve 90% of what the GMs have had to waste their time with on p99, I think they'll have time to deal with large-scale training on red99. The no-training rule itself will keep training down to a manageable level by merit of the rule alone, and then they can investigate serious training incidents where people can provide fraps proof and such. They won't have to step in when one guy trains two orc centurions on a group in Crushbone.

[Nirgon]

Doesn't take a prophet to predict that training causes huge problems. I don't see what positive points there are to allowing training, except that it'll take less GM administration. Since PvP itself will solve 90% of what the GMs have had to waste their time with on p99, I think they'll have time to deal with large-scale training on red99. The no-training rule itself will keep training down to a manageable level by merit of the rule alone, and then they can investigate serious training incidents where people can provide fraps proof and such. They won't have to step in when one guy trains two orc centurions on a group in Crushbone.


Camp stealing by players of a similar range or first to engage shouldn't be as big a deal...

[Razdeline]

Yeah I agree with Ennoia and Harrison, what is the point of allowing bind camping and not training? That is the most retarded thing I have ever heard. The bind point should be a spot one wouldn't have to worry about getting killed multiple times... Jesus how stupid can people be. Training is part of the game and and they can be avoided. So play better and don't get trained.

[Billbike]

If your being bindcamped, /q and log back in 10 minutes.

If your getting corpse camped, take a 15 minute break then then retrieve corpse.

If a More powerful toon steals your camp, leave.

If you get trained, fd, gate, zone, run away, or root the trainer.

There's No crying in baseball.

There's No crying to GMs in basketball.

[gloinz]

If your being bindcamped, /q and log back in 10 minutes.

If your getting corpse camped, take a 15 minute break then then retrieve corpse.

If a More powerful toon steals your camp, leave.

If you get trained, fd, gate, zone, run away, or root the trainer.

There's No crying in baseball.

There's No crying to GMs in basketball.

if a more powerful toon steals your camp, train that punk into submission

[Palemoon]

IMHO training should be the only thing that needs a "rule" against. All other in game issues should be handled by the players, including bind camping (bind in a safer player, /quit out and log back in later, log on an alt and ask friends to clear your bind spot, etc).

If training gets out of hand though, it will really hurt the server. I watch sullon zek melt into nothing when it became nothing but bard train wars.

[Envious]

Unless your going to read the almost 30 pages, and refute or support claims in some detail...

Going to stop there, trying to curb myself.

[Rushmore]

Training will be illegal Emperor Rogean said this himself in IRC today.

[gloinz]

Training will be illegal Emperor Rogean said this himself in IRC today.

no ss didn't happen

[Xareth]

no ss didn't happen

Did someone fraps IRC?

[Envious]

If its true he said that in IRC...

Well, hope he has a legal team to word the "rule" for it. And GMs to monitor the server 24/7. As well as someone to post epic tits to keep people from rage quitting after getting trained. And people from rage quitting when they cant train back. And people rage quitting for getting banned over it. And people to moderate all the GM favoritism claims. And GM corruption claims. And QQ threads. And possible Kringe moments. And a 100% completely unbiased set of GMs that have never played any EMU nor have any connection to anyone that is going to play R99. As well as a team of people to shuffle through the flood of fraps that will occur every raid spawn.

If Rogean really is going with making training illegal... Grats on suicide bombing your own server, GM staff, forums, and any claims that it will be legit.

VZ/TZ 5.0 Incoming, with all the problems of the old box but now with shit exp curves, no boxing, and Searyx'd loot tables!

[Haul]

Making training illegal is not classic, and adds way to much room for crying and petitioning to the max. Lets not make this like p99 in that aspect lord have mercy.

[Haul]

It is part of the freaking game. Anyone who played pvp on live knows this, don't make this a bluebie server with long list of rules..

[Lazortag]

If its true he said that in IRC...

Well, hope he has a legal team to word the "rule" for it. And GMs to monitor the server 24/7. As well as someone to post epic tits to keep people from rage quitting after getting trained. And people from rage quitting when they cant train back. And people rage quitting for getting banned over it. And people to moderate all the GM favoritism claims. And GM corruption claims. And QQ threads. And possible Kringe moments. And a 100% completely unbiased set of GMs that have never played any EMU nor have any connection to anyone that is going to play R99. As well as a team of people to shuffle through the flood of fraps that will occur every raid spawn.

If Rogean really is going with making training illegal... Grats on suicide bombing your own server, GM staff, forums, and any claims that it will be legit.

VZ/TZ 5.0 Incoming, with all the problems of the old box but now with shit exp curves, no boxing, and Searyx'd loot tables!

Yes you are right, not allowing training will truly be the death of the server! Here's a few other things that your fellow posters have identified as guaranteeing the server's doom:

-Allowing training
-Item loot
-Not allowing item loot
-Fast exp
-Slow exp
-Not having soulbinders

I guess we're not safe with anything because no matter what the server is doomed.

Seriously though, having rules against training is easy. The fact that there's a rule in place will make many players not train either because they're deterred by the punishment or because they just respect the rules. On p99 if you report someone for training, a GM comes and investigates; if it's really blatant, the offender gets punished, if it's not that blatant, well then the train probably wasn't worth reporting in the first place. Moreover reporting a train gets the GM to watch the players in the zone so they can see if any repeat trains occur. Even if you can't always punish someone for the first train, being able to prevent subsequent trains is good. You guys haven't played on a real server for so long that you're forgetting how these disputes are usually handled. You also can't fathom how effective training is on p99 where mobs have pathing unlike vztz. Just relax and see how it goes down instead of prophecizing doom for a server that hasn't even been put up yet.

[lethdar]

If its true he said that in IRC...

Well, hope he has a legal team to word the "rule" for it. And GMs to monitor the server 24/7. As well as someone to post epic tits to keep people from rage quitting after getting trained. And people from rage quitting when they cant train back. And people rage quitting for getting banned over it. And people to moderate all the GM favoritism claims. And GM corruption claims. And QQ threads. And possible Kringe moments. And a 100% completely unbiased set of GMs that have never played any EMU nor have any connection to anyone that is going to play R99. As well as a team of people to shuffle through the flood of fraps that will occur every raid spawn.

If Rogean really is going with making training illegal... Grats on suicide bombing your own server, GM staff, forums, and any claims that it will be legit.

VZ/TZ 5.0 Incoming, with all the problems of the old box but now with shit exp curves, no boxing, and Searyx'd loot tables!

You mad

[Nirgon]

Rules or no rules, it's up to the community to destroy the server. Whether there's a rule against training or not it doesn't PREVENT you from doing it.

Please tell me how you can enforce this training rule 100% of the time because that is what it will take to avoid the GM favoritism talks that people actually end up believing for some stupid reason or another.

The real pvp will be convicing GMs you didn't train or getting it blamed on the other guilds for suspensions.

[Billbike]

Relax Blubies, training isn't as big of deal on a pvp server. Rooting or snaring the guy that is training is available. Pvp is ment to solve disputes between players, not GMs. Besides, it's actually sort of difficult to train with any efficiency during classic.

On the other hand, training is so much more fun when it's illegal.

[jilena]

I don't like play nice on a PvP server. Unless someone is intentionally exploiting or cheating(haxx) I don't see any reason for GM intervention. Someone trains you? Train them back. Someone bind camps you? Log on an alt. Don't be a giant pussy. I think that should be the primary GM enforced rule on this server. If you are a giant pussy who overpetitions you should instantly be banned 4 lyfe.

[Sorath]

The amount of qq that will occur on red 99 will be unsurmountable and consume large amounts of tampons and tissues similar to hurricane Katrina.

[jilena]

The amount of qq that will occur on red 99 will be unsurmountable and consume large amounts of tampons and tissues similar to hurricane Katrina.

Why do you think so many people want to play there? EQ is all about the drama, the game itself kinda sucks.

[Zordana]

on a pvp server, somethin like "escaping" in eq2 would be neat.. if a mob is chasing someone, and that someone FDs or dies or zones or anything, the mob should go into "escape" mode and run back to the spot, where it aggroed the player without aggroing anyone else (tho, players should be able to attack "escaping" mobs and get aggro) if no1 else is on aggrolist

[Zuranthium]

I don't like play nice on a PvP server. Unless someone is intentionally exploiting or cheating(haxx) I don't see any reason for GM intervention. Someone trains you? Train them back. Someone bind camps you? Log on an alt. Don't be a giant pussy. I think that should be the primary GM enforced rule on this server. If you are a giant pussy who overpetitions you should instantly be banned 4 lyfe.

100% agree.

The whole point of PvP is that it should be "anything goes". That's what creates an immersive gaming experience - it's a god damn apocalyptic war and you need to do whatever it takes to save your life and destroy the opponent. Any decisions about how players conduct themselves should be entirely decided by their own code of virtues. "Good aligned" players might not think so much of training; that's how they choose to roleplay and if they want to whine about it, then they should form a guild of like-minded players who can be there to protect each other.

[Nirgon]

Over petition should be considered staff harassment.

[Softcore PK]

Training should not be allowed. It discourages real pvp. Yes, it will sometimes happen anyway, but with it being legal it will become the norm. Which is bad.

Corpse camping, bind rushing and bind point camping should be legal. LnS should not be enforced by the GMs (exception for extreme cases, where a corpse will rot). These are all things that I hope players will enforce on their own. If they can't, though, it's not a huge deal. None of those things are usually a serious issue. Anyone bind camping is wasting their time as much as yours.

[Nirgon]

Being able to loot an item also discourages training imo.

[Billbike]

on a pvp server, somethin like "escaping" in eq2 would be neat.. if a mob is chasing someone, and that someone FDs or dies or zones or anything, the mob should go into "escape" mode and run back to the spot, where it aggroed the player without aggroing anyone else (tho, players should be able to attack "escaping" mobs and get aggro) if no1 else is on aggrolist

This is the gayest idea I have heard on these forums. Eq isn't eq without trains. This is why eq2 and wow sucked.

[Softcore PK]

I suggest you make it against the rules to attack someone while they are engaged with npcs, to help retain as many bluebies as possible. Exceptions would include raid targets, places like seb and players chainpulling to avoid pvp.

When it comes to normal exp groups, or people soloing, PKs can wait until the NPCs are all dead.

[Bockscar]

I know you're trolling, but for the sake of being bored and having nothing better to do than ask, why would you ever want a rule against that? It's a legitimate tactic, it's just unimpressive and nobody will give a shit about any kills you get that way.

[Softcore PK]

I am not trolling, that is how I played on live. And it should be against the rules otherwise it will become commonplace, and the bluebies will all run back to Blue99 when they take a pve exp hit because people couldn't wait for the npcs to all die.

[Bockscar]

Ok.

[Envious]

Saltyy posted a SS of Abacab admitting to training already.

http://poopspant.com/fresh/red12.png

Perma ban him imo.

[Harrison]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=416835#post416835

You see in that thread: Envious supporting no policing of trains.
You see in this thread: Envious crying about trains.

Conclusion: Envious is a bitch.

[Bockscar]

He's just jealous.

Get it?

[Envious]

I did not want enforcement of training, but since it has been made a rule then it needs to be enforced.

Called dealing with it. Not a rule I wanted, but that matters how?

And I'm not crying about a train. I wasnt in the group, I didnt see it, I dont care that it happened.

But it is someone admitting to training, by aggro'ing mobs onto a group of people in Uguk. So, I want to see it enforced as stated, with at least a 1 month ban.

[lethdar]

Ban envious for retardation imo.

[GhostofSalty]

Ban envious

[Envious]

Always good to have two known third party users calling for your ban. Lol

[Macedon]

ummm as much as people dont like it, he forced npcs onto a player, which is training imo, so it's either the rules get enforced, or we all make a stand and say gtfo with these bullshit training rules that no one likes...

[Silikten]

1.) He has to be caught by a GM
2.) GMs are not around 24/7, allow time to act please
3.) It is beta

[lindz]

I think training is just a natural part of a pvp environment and a to have it against server rules means a ridiculous amount of policing needed by GMs.

I think the best way to go about playnice policies is just to let a server govern itself. You will always have jackasses, but a pvp server will be small and those people will be known.

[Nirgon]

There's a big difference between someone not knowing to /pet get lost or control their pet otherwise (I know it was an enchanter pet, hence the /pet get lost), mobs getting involved as a result in pvp and....

someone coming into the zone, grabbing every mob they can on the way to someone and feign deathing or gating.


"Mobs killed me because of him, ban him immediately"

The GMs on live would have to make a good case for doing so, or at least a repeated history. A druid, "Poor" in PB was famous for going into Karnor, grabbing everything and running out whenever a kos player was in the zone. He got away with "I didn't mean to pull all that", albeit in his broken engrish, for a very short time. It really falls under the terms of repeated abuse of the mechanic or constant zone disruption.

In my time with mobs in pvp, I had bards repeatedly charm something, tell it to attack me and then run off and get another mob. No GM response. I think the governing rule on RZ live wasn't training, but moreso clear and intentional XP loss.

[Softcore PK]

I think the governing rule on RZ live wasn't training, but moreso clear and intentional XP loss.

This makes a lot of sense.

[Nirgon]

Any time mobs become involved in PvP, there will be screams for bans and people that are banned/leave/accuse GM favoritism on a pvp server.

The no training rule exists on live and people don't seem to be getting away with it in cases that aren't grey areas or accidents.

[Darwoth]

less rules the better, training always has and always will be part of eq pvp regardless of the rules (wasnt allowed on rz)

problem is that usually the guy retaliating is the one caught and punished, an SZ anything goes ruleset is the best.

if someone binds next to a spawn im trying to camp/xp on what am i supposed to do? kill him then let him med up and shit on my face because killing him again is against the rules?

the only rules should be no third party programs, simplifies the workload and keeps things fair.

[Billbike]

Policing training is like policing marijuana. Seems good on paper, but in practice it fails.

[Softcore PK]

less rules the better, training always has and always will be part of eq pvp regardless of the rules (wasnt allowed on rz)

problem is that usually the guy retaliating is the one caught and punished, an SZ anything goes ruleset is the best.

if someone binds next to a spawn im trying to camp/xp on what am i supposed to do? kill him then let him med up and shit on my face because killing him again is against the rules?

the only rules should be no third party programs, simplifies the workload and keeps things fair.

In this case, bindpoint camping should not be an issue. You'd be hard pressed to find a GM that would take action against you for this (hopefully).

Policing training is like policing marijuana. Seems good on paper, but in practice it fails.

:/

Marijuana is a victimless crime, training is not. Not a very good comparison.

[Lovely]

No one seem to give a flying shit about the training rules on beta. Everytime you head to lguk for pvp there are trains all over the place

[Vohl]

Here are some thoughts about border cases.

So what happens if someone jumps you while you're a FD class engaged with mobs? FD dumps them on your attackers, in effect training them. I think this is acceptable.

What if a pet class attacks you in a dungeon and you have fear/blind prepped? Sending the pet off to die at the hands of nearby monsters, who then jump the pet caster also seems acceptable. The pet caster can dump the pet if he doesn't like what's happening.

Running away into a room packed full of mobs using invis or FD also seems fine by me. Anyone chasing you would in effect just be training themselves.

Attacking a group that has mezzed mobs in camp, and breaking their mezzes is another matter. In effect, you're sabotaging their CC, causing the enchanter or bard in the group to take an XP death in pretty short order. This seems to be wrong; killing the bard or enchanter while mobs are in camp would have a similar effect.

In more general terms, causing another player to take an XP death from mobs strikes me as wrong and harmful to the game. At the same time, enforcement looks very labor-intensive, if not downright impossible.

[lethdar]

Policing training is like policing marijuana. Seems good on paper, but in practice it fails.

What a fail analogy.

[juicedsixfo]

No one seem to give a flying shit about the training rules on beta. Everytime you head to lguk for pvp there are trains all over the place

Lets use some common sense here. The GMs aren't going to bother with 200 petitions a day from guk, unrest, etc.

The training rule will come in to play when a guild petitions that they were forming up to engage a boss mob, and one bard from an opposing guild zoned in and wiped them. The GMs can check the log, verify, and bam – you're done. That's what the rule is for primarily. It's not for zone battle bullshit. Though, if you bring all of guk with you to Lord room and FD as a monk on top of a group, I'm sure that will be grounds as well. Rule No. 1 – If you get trained, take screenshots, post it, see what happens, deal with it.

[Billbike]

What a fail analogy.

Training will happen everyday. If training is policed, GMs will be overwhelmed with QQ allday everyday. People will be falsely accused and punished. GMs will be accused of favoritism. It will be a huge waste of resources, like what I said in my analogy.

[Rust1d?]

Train complaints should be limited to one moron or a few morons training the same people over and over again. An example would be sojourner on K&B. He would just train all day. Same with Darksinga, he would /who all fear, come in and just train.

[Lovely]

Training will happen everyday. If training is policed, GMs will be overwhelmed with QQ allday everyday. People will be falsely accused and punished. GMs will be accused of favoritism. It will be a huge waste of resources, like what I said in my analogy.

That's exactly what happened to me on blue99, falsely accused and suspended. But thank god that fucking piece of shit GM is gone now. I assume you can guess who it is. In that situation it was 100% favoritism and power abuse.

Therefor I'm all for training being allowed. It would just save everyone a huge hassle especially the GM's.

[Envious]

What a fail analogy.

Heard your guild got griefed off the server...

http://youtu.be/_6wzsIh93qc

Lethdar, the guy that doesnt want trains... cause he could never camp pixels. The guy that doesnt want pumice, so he can camp Golem wands.

U sound blue homie. I got a 54 warrior on P99 and can prolly get you into TMO if you wanna do it up.

[Dontmez_Mebro]

Trains were always a part of EQ. I think it will be easier on the GM's if they just allow it. If some jerk gets known for training then corpse/bind camp him back into childhood.

[gloinz]

Trains were always a part of EQ. I think it will be easier on the GM's if they just allow it. If some jerk gets known for training then corpse/bind camp him back into childhood.

amen

[Softcore PK]

When training was allowed (SZ) it did not result in people banding together to grief them, it resulted in EVERYONE training.

lame imo.

[Lazortag]

When SZ was allowed (SZ) it did not result in people banding together to grief them, it resulted in EVERYONE training.

lame imo.

Agreed. You can't have the community police training because there isn't a clear agreement on whether training is even a bad thing. Moreover, players aren't as qualified to spot training when it occurs as GM's are, so it would either result in the community not punishing training aggressively enough, or punishing people who didn't actually train. And if training was allowed pretty much everyone would do it because of how potent of a strategy it is, so the community couldn't police it because everyone would be doing it. As fun as training is, you can't justify allowing it.

[Sarkov]

Play nice policy is stupid on a pvp server.

Glad I'm not on the GM staff, if they want to try and enforce a no-train rule. Good luck with that one.

[Null]

Play nice policy is stupid on a pvp server.

Glad I'm not on the GM staff, if they want to try and enforce a no-train rule. Good luck with that one.

Its mostly automated so yea.

[Wonton]

When training was allowed (SZ) it did not result in people banding together to grief them, it resulted in EVERYONE training.

lame imo.

HEY!... Lesbian pk... shush.

[Dontmez_Mebro]

Its mostly automated so yea.

What if I'm a rogue who has to constantly run to the zoneline with a shout macro button that says "CHOOO CHHOOO! Train is comin!!!!"? Would the automated system find my actions unjust and banish me forever? It's not my fault I have to run anytime I pull more than one mob.

[juicedsixfo]

What if I'm a rogue who has to constantly run to the zoneline with a shout macro button that says "CHOOO CHHOOO! Train is comin!!!!"? Would the automated system find my actions unjust and banish me forever? It's not my fault I have to run anytime I pull more than one mob.

Well I may be wrong here but I think zones like Fear/Guk/Sol B are going to be getting the most of the Play Nice Magnifying Glass, and I don't think you'll be soloing much there anyway.

[Clearrain]

I played on SZ training wasn't that bad. I played on VZ too and got trained all the time. It's avoidable and can fuck the person training you. Bards charming the Nexus porters is a totally different story however.

[oldfish]

I havent read the whole thread, ive played on p99 but left because of GMing by that GM that shall remain unnamed. I would be interested in returning for this fresh start so here is my input from someone who played on Rallos Zek 00-01

Training was part of the original experience. It wouldnt be the same thing playing in Oasis without people training specters to docks or sand giants. You developped an awareness of it and learned to live with it.

Bind camping should be allowed as well. I once got bind camped for 20mins, you can just log off on another character... simple.

People who train have names they cant change. You wanna level up in Guk? Pay attention to /who and get the trainer when he zones in

Not allowing those 2 things would water down the experience, to me it would be just the same as putting fast leveling on blue99

Edit: ive just seen this guild with a huge roster. Yeah, thats a problem to other people who dont have these numbers, so training is a way to fight back, one that should be allowed IMO.

[Billbike]

I havent read the whole thread, ive played on p99 but left because of GMing by that GM that shall remain unnamed. I would be interested in returning for this fresh start so here is my input from someone who played on Rallos Zek 00-01

Training was part of the original experience. It wouldnt be the same thing playing in Oasis without people training specters to docks or sand giants. You developped an awareness of it and learned to live with it.

Bind camping should be allowed as well. I once got bind camped for 20mins, you can just log off on another character... simple.

People who train have names they cant change. You wanna level up in Guk? Pay attention to /who and get the trainer when he zones in

Not allowing those 2 things would water down the experience, to me it would be just the same as putting fast leveling on blue99

Edit: ive just seen this guild with a huge roster. Yeah, thats a problem to other people who dont have these numbers, so training is a way to fight back, one that should be allowed IMO.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_HQifbr7hpR8/TOaaOfMHtfI/AAAAAAAAADY/KiLctNCu4Zk/s320/istockphoto_1535790_i_agree.jpg

[Glam]

Avoid bind camp inside citys - its easy just let guard assist if someone attack anyone close to them so it will be safer to bind inside citys.

bind camp outside and close to zones like fear should be ok since its outside citys.

training will always be a problem and cant be solved.

[casdegere]

When training was allowed (SZ) it did not result in people banding together to grief them, it resulted in EVERYONE training.

lame imo.

^This

Explains the average PvP mentality in one, nice, brief sentence. If training is allowed it will be rampant and and FD characters will rise in popularity. PvP can be fun but griefing/vengeance fests will get old very quickly and ultimately hurt the server. Be careful of what you wish for.

[gloinz]

^This

Explains the average PvP mentality in one, nice, brief sentence. If training is allowed it will be rampant and and FD characters will rise in popularity. PvP can be fun but griefing/vengeance fests will get old very quickly and ultimately hurt the server. Be careful of what you wish for.

griefing/venegeance fests would ensure server stability cuz getting endgame gear would be 10000x as difficult

[Softcore PK]

griefing/venegeance fests would ensure server stability cuz getting endgame gear would be 10000x as difficult

Griefing/vengeance fests would result in lots of people leaving the server. And anyway, how does endgame gear being more difficult to obtain help server stability at all?

[Knuckle]

Guards should assist by faction, no reason not to have this in.

[Lazortag]

Guards should assist by faction, no reason not to have this in.

This is something that needs to be fixed. At the very least if it's not going to work how it did on Live, they should make it so that a guard that's dubious or even apprehensive to you doesn't assist you. I can see a guard assisting someone who's amiable against someone who's kindly, but not someone dubious against someone indifferent or higher. Also a green con guard that's KOS would assist you under the system described by Rogean. We'll see how it works once it's implemented but as it's been described, I don't like it.

[gloinz]

Griefing/vengeance fests would result in lots of people leaving the server. And anyway, how does endgame gear being more difficult to obtain help server stability at all?

well if it takes 3 years or get your guild endgame geared for one expansion because everytime you try and raid you get destroyed by rival guild seems like that would be more fun then maxing out after 3 months

[Softcore PK]

well if it takes 3 years or get your guild endgame geared for one expansion because everytime you try and raid you get destroyed by rival guild seems like that would be more fun then maxing out after 3 months

Who maxes out? On VZ there was only 1 guild (occasionally 1-2 others would come close) that would be raiding the very endgame before the next expansion released. It's not like every level 60 character will have their epic before velious is released; there is always something to work toward.

[Taluvill]

I posted this in Loot n Scoot too. Easiest way to enforce everything:

Enforce hacking/exploiting. Otherwise, leave it to the players.

The players will govern themselves. If everyone trains, the strong will make it to 50 and raid, and trainers names stick with them forever. PKers will never get a guild. Just douse the hacking/exploits and this might be the easiest server to deal with.

[Liebestod]

Sorry to re-dredge an old post but...

I posted this in Loot n Scoot too. Easiest way to enforce everything:

Enforce hacking/exploiting. Otherwise, leave it to the players.

The players will govern themselves. If everyone trains, the strong will make it to 50 and raid, and trainers names stick with them forever. PKers will never get a guild. Just douse the hacking/exploits and this might be the easiest server to deal with.

Let me guess, you played on Rallos Zek. (If not, you'd fit right in) This was the best and worst thing about Rallos Zek. It was a badge of honor to be a pk'er because you had to basically fight the entire server.

But this bullshit about ostracizing people who like to PVP is where it begins, soon the "Anti'pk'ers" are the ones training, acting like "because they're the bad guys it's okay."

Rallos turned into a neutered server once velious came out because the non-pvp'ing pussies raided, pk'ers couldn't and the gear disparagement grew from every expansion on, in planes of power 4 players without the best gear could take on one geared in PoT and he could laugh it off.

I'm not saying if someone is killing everyone randomly you should still trust/group with him, I'm just saying it can turn quickly from "PVP is to settle issues" and "guild wars" into "Hey everyone, if WE play nice, we can ALL get gear"

[Nirgon]

If you attack a raid and get killed, you should be willing to wait until said raid is over to get your corpse.

If there are hostile players in a dungeon, know the risk you are taking upon yourself before going in, deciding to stay or attacking them. I don't think this LNS thing should be GM enforced.

IE - someone zones in, ganks a person in a group and runs away. He then tries to call a GM enforced LNS on that person so the group in question has to go on for an hour (or predetermined time) a man down. -> Stupid.

[Softcore PK]

Let me guess, you played on Rallos Zek. (If not, you'd fit right in) This was the best and worst thing about Rallos Zek. It was a badge of honor to be a pk'er because you had to basically fight the entire server.

But this bullshit about ostracizing people who like to PVP is where it begins, soon the "Anti'pk'ers" are the ones training, acting like "because they're the bad guys it's okay."

Rallos turned into a neutered server once velious came out because the non-pvp'ing pussies raided, pk'ers couldn't and the gear disparagement grew from every expansion on, in planes of power 4 players without the best gear could take on one geared in PoT and he could laugh it off.

I'm not saying if someone is killing everyone randomly you should still trust/group with him, I'm just saying it can turn quickly from "PVP is to settle issues" and "guild wars" into "Hey everyone, if WE play nice, we can ALL get gear"

That would be so cool! I never got to experience high end on RZ, but each of the pvp servers had some very interesting and unique things going for them. It won't happen here, though. The biggest guild is already comprised of very serious PKers and they have a good chance at becoming top pve guild. Anyone who wishes to compete with them will be forced to pvp.

Don't worry, there is no conceivable way for this server to become like RZ :P

[Zalaerian]

PKers will never get a guild. Just douse the hacking/exploits and this might be the easiest server to deal with.

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/1250/1317391438704.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/827/1317391438704.jpg/)

[Haul]

Trains were always a part of EQ. I think it will be easier on the GM's if they just allow it. If some jerk gets known for training then corpse/bind camp him back into childhood.

This.

[Taluvill]

*Shrug* The point of my post was "Don't enforce us, we will enforce ourselves." Regardless of what happens, I just don't want some GM coming in and banning people because they trained for a camp, or because it took 3 hours to deal with Naggy due to PvP.

There shouldn't be a play nice policy, just don't hack/exploit. If someone is greifing you, log out for an hour.

[Softcore PK]

*Shrug* The point of my post was "Don't enforce us, we will enforce ourselves." Regardless of what happens, I just don't want some GM coming in and banning people because they trained for a camp, or because it took 3 hours to deal with Naggy due to PvP.

There shouldn't be a play nice policy, just don't hack/exploit. If someone is greifing you, log out for an hour.

For the most part that's how it's going to be. The only exception is training. So don't train!

[HippoNipple]

wow you are delusional. why are you even playing here blubie scum?


Everything he said is true about RZ, but the dynamic will be different here then RZ. This server will have a lot more hate then RZ had back then.

There were only a couple strong pvp guilds back then and they were usually not that strong for a sustainable amount of time. The best raiding guilds were all anti pk and when they weren't raiding they were looking for reasons to PK without being labeled a PK. They were much worse then the actual pvpers when it came to griefing because once they found someone they could attack they would do anything to keep killing them as often as possible.

It was about 80-90% anti pk on that server.

[Silikten]

Pandemonium, Indignation, Veneration > RZ

[Bkab]

Pandemonium, Indignation, Veneration, Army of Grobb, Lollipop Brigade, every other guild on TZ > RZ

fixed

[oldfish]

that sounds lame as fuck. its funny how rzers try to come off like they played on the most hardcore server. what legit pvp server has anti-pk guilds that control the server like that? homosexuals if you ask me.

Anti-pk's had targets to kill all day long.

[Butthead]

it shud all be allowed.

it makes ppl have to work together.

i think the 8 level diff shud b gone too. make it more realistic...


/sigh

rip sullon zek

[Smashem]

it shud all be allowed.

it makes ppl have to work together.

i think the 8 level diff shud b gone too. make it more realistic...


/sigh

rip sullon zek
Truth. One of the main reasons I loved playing on Sullon Zek was that rules made PvP less fun. The only rule there was no same-team training, and even that one had to be broken sometimes because <Hate> was a bunch of xteaming faggots.

Playing on Rallos half the time = Being steamrolled by 20 Antis because you refused to join their guild. Then they'd put you on their faggot little PK Black List and CC you on sight. Then if you trained them you were the one not "playing nice."

I don't rock 8-man PvP groups to kill 2 people like some other faggots, so if 5 people wanna come and try to push my shit in while there's no one else around to help, I'm gonna recruit some help from the friendly motherfuckin' Runny Eyes and see how those fefs like it.

Screw worrying about whether or not it's feasibly enforceable: On SZ, training was a solid PvP strat against the mindless PvP zergs who thought they were hot shit but couldn't do jack on their own.

You want special rules for the Planes? SZ raiders had to bring people to search out and find faggots trying to wipe their raid with a train and take them out before they could get it done. Man up and stop trying to get rules in place that are only going to make GMs waste the time they actually get to put into this box.

[john_savage1982]

Training will happen whether intentional or not - especially when PvP happening in dungeons and high level raid zones.

Example: PvP action in Unrest. Monk runs from group who just rolled up, gathering mobs in the flight. Decides to FD to get mobs off him - mobs train attacks group.

Example: Raid PvP in Hate. Guild A is clearing trash. Guild B rolls up mid-pull and starts attacking Guild A. Monk comes back before he is informed of attack, finding Guild B in his way back. Most prudent move is to FD mobs off him onto Guild B who just surprised attacked his guild.

I think the context of training could make the issue less black and white than it seems on the surface. Instead of delegating GM time for arbitration, I believe it would be better for the players themselves to moderate each others' actions because, after all, this is a PvP server where reputation means everything. Do you think for a second that any respect (and forgiveness) will be given to players who consistently cause problems for others?

The complete freedom of interaction is what makes PvP so exciting. The less rules imposed, the more freedom for player-generated rules, which is, I believe, ultimately a more fulfilling MMORPG experience.

[gloinz]

Truth. One of the main reasons I loved playing on Sullon Zek was that rules made PvP less fun. The only rule there was no same-team training, and even that one had to be broken sometimes because <Hate> was a bunch of xteaming faggots.

Playing on Rallos half the time = Being steamrolled by 20 Antis because you refused to join their guild. Then they'd put you on their faggot little PK Black List and CC you on sight. Then if you trained them you were the one not "playing nice."

I don't rock 8-man PvP groups to kill 2 people like some other faggots, so if 5 people wanna come and try to push my shit in while there's no one else around to help, I'm gonna recruit some help from the friendly motherfuckin' Runny Eyes and see how those fefs like it.

Screw worrying about whether or not it's feasibly enforceable: On SZ, training was a solid PvP strat against the mindless PvP zergs who thought they were hot shit but couldn't do jack on their own.

You want special rules for the Planes? SZ raiders had to bring people to search out and find faggots trying to wipe their raid with a train and take them out before they could get it done. Man up and stop trying to get rules in place that are only going to make GMs waste the time they actually get to put into this box.

amen

[Envious]

All the hardcore Holocaust PK'ers successfully campaigned against training.

[Snufz]

SZ ruleset is the best.

Not many people would last on it though.

[Slave]

SZ ruleset is the best.

Absolutely true because of the fact that there were no play nice rules, no level limit to pvp, and that's about it.

Not many people would last on it though.

While that might have been true in the year 2000, it is now almost 2012 and the people still playing the game 12 years later are extremely hardcore compared to Live. Kind of hard to believe I had to explain that point.

[webrunner5]

So you are ok with 3 people or more in a guild ganging up on one person in another guild but against Training. Hmmm. Sounds pretty fair.

[Smashem]

So you are ok with 3 people or more in a guild ganging up on one person in another guild but against Training. Hmmm. Sounds pretty fair.
This is exactly the kind of faggotry the threat of training prevents.

Training not allowed? Large groups have no fear of the one asshole in the zone.

Training allowed? Even those groups think twice if they are afraid of a train. Even if they aren't afraid at all? Single guy can protect his camp by running a shit ton of mobs over the invaders.

If one guy you know is a PKer shows up where you're farming, you tell him to GTFO before you slap him in the face with your cock. With more than one person, that's usually no longer an option, so if you want to protect your farm spot, you gotta get creative (and by "creative" in this case, I mean not creative at all, as everyone knows I'm just talking about training and it's been done for over a decade).

[tsaC]

This is exactly the kind of faggotry the threat of training prevents.

Training not allowed? Large groups have no fear of the one asshole in the zone.

Training allowed? Even those groups think twice if they are afraid of a train. Even if they aren't afraid at all? Single guy can protect his camp by running a shit ton of mobs over the invaders.

If one guy you know is a PKer shows up where you're farming, you tell him to GTFO before you slap him in the face with your cock. With more than one person, that's usually no longer an option, so if you want to protect your farm spot, you gotta get creative (and by "creative" in this case, I mean not creative at all, as everyone knows I'm just talking about training and it's been done for over a decade).


Dear god, this has to be a troll post.. one person cannot be this dum in the brian

[Smashem]

Dear god, this has to be a troll post.. one person cannot be this dum in the brian
^^
Fef who doesn't want single players to fight back against Zerg PvP, so he calls me a troll because he has no logic to counter it.

Man up.

[Slave]

The big problem with training on Red 99 is that mob hate list does not work the same as in Live. You literally cannot get mobs off you without FD or running over an NPC fight with PCs for which the train socials. So here you will have classes that were classically awesome at training (like bards) completely unable to train mobs in their own defense. Bards are doubly screwed because the current code on mob hate does not allow them to swarm kite either, a big part, maybe the main part of what bard leveling used to be.

The level range is also a huge impediment to training rules. Consider the case of Fansy the Famous. Well, you'd have this times fifty because low levels will be constantly training higher levels who are unable to respond to them due to an arbitrary and fairly stupid, sorry, mechanic of level range to engage in PvP.

I think most of us would prefer no level range to PvP engagement, mob hate mechanics to be fixed, and if those two conditions are met, then no play nice rules on R99.

[Nirgon]

Just a request and a thought before the end game craziness or "end game" dungeon xping starts. Maybe there's a quick way to beef up the logging so GMs don't have to be on at crazy or Euro hours to handle training.

[Smashem]

The big problem with training on Red 99 is that mob hate list does not work the same as in Live. You literally cannot get mobs off you without FD or running over an NPC fight with PCs for which the train socials. So here you will have classes that were classically awesome at training (like bards) completely unable to train mobs in their own defense. Bards are doubly screwed because the current code on mob hate does not allow them to swarm kite either, a big part, maybe the main part of what bard leveling used to be.

The level range is also a huge impediment to training rules. Consider the case of Fansy the Famous. Well, you'd have this times fifty because low levels will be constantly training higher levels who are unable to respond to them due to an arbitrary and fairly stupid, sorry, mechanic of level range to engage in PvP.

I think most of us would prefer no level range to PvP engagement, mob hate mechanics to be fixed, and if those two conditions are met, then no play nice rules on R99.
A well articulated point that was actually thought out. If only everyone else could stop spamming "kewl story brew u mirin" while playing with themselves long enough to form a coherent thought, we'd have something going here.

Just a request and a thought before the end game craziness or "end game" dungeon xping starts. Maybe there's a quick way to beef up the logging so GMs don't have to be on at crazy or Euro hours to handle training.
It's called Slave's post. Get that shit done, and GMs don't have to worry about training anymore, cuz it'll be legit.

PS: I herd u lieked mudkipz. No? u mad? Come at me, bro.

[gloinz]

Training is how George Washington and Abraham Lincoln patriotically established america.
without the population having a way to fight a guerrilla war with the ruling nazi regime, the box is doomed to be run by a conglomerate of bluebie jewish overlords.
training allows us little folks to fight a war with anyone.

[Titanuk]

ooc must be serverwide

[steaks6]

fucking lol gloinz

also i like how rogean just typed reserved and got a 36 page troll

owned?

[Flunklesnarkin]

No rules.. (beyond no hacking / botting / boxing)


Embrace discord and let go of order >_>