Jar of acid

[Mabaw]

Merchents are missing Jar of Acid, and Empty Vial.

should be sold at merchents who also sell Resin and Jar of Laquer

[Webwolf]

I can confirm this. Without these components you cannot dye fine plate.
There used to be only two merchants who sold the jar of acid and and empty vials, Grham Embersmith in High Keep and Ukla in Rathe Mountains. As of now they only sell part of the items needed and the book on how to dye and stain.

Source:
http://web.archive.org/web/20001011101315/http://www.eqtraders.com/location/high_keep.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20001012061206/http://www.eqtraders.com/location/rathe_mts.html

[Webwolf]

/bump because it didn't get a reply by one of the devs.

[Gorgetrapper]

From what I remember, dye'ing isn't in the game.

[Webwolf]

From what I can see dyeing fine plate is in game as it should be but two of the merchant sold components are missing.

[Gorgetrapper]

This is why I say dye'ing should not be in the game. It was introduced when Legacy of Ykesha was released, or so it is said.



The Legacy of Ykesha is the fifth expansion for the popular MMORPG EverQuest.
Overview
The fifth expansion to EverQuest was a bit of a change from the previous four expansions. For one, it was much smaller in size. It also did not add much in the way of new content for high level players. Some of the expansion's highlights included:

* New Playable Race: Frogloks, a race of nobe frog men, had been in the game since launch, but only as NPC's.
* New Map System: A new cartography system allowed players to edit, create, and share in-game maps of the world.
* Guild Management: A new menu allowed players to quickly see guild members' name, location, rank, level, and other info.
* Armor Dye: Players could now purchase and craft armor dye to make a fashion statement.
* Increased Storage: Players' bank size doubled to 16 available slots.
* New Equipment Slot: Charms were added to the game giving unique and sometimes unusual benefits.
* New Mounts: Giant lizards known as Drogmors are purchasable from the Gulf of Gunthak.
* Downloadable: Ykesha was the first expansion available via download. A limited run of discs were available at retail.

http://www.giantbomb.com/everquest-the-legacy-of-ykesha/61-14656/

[Webwolf]

Gorgetrapper you just proved that you probably never played EQ Classic in the first place. Dyeing fine plate by Blacksmiths has been arround since classic. Dyeing any piece of armor by anyone is what was introduced in Legacy of Ykesha. Try to at least read the posts and comprehend them before you give your opinion. Is people like you that causes the devs to be confused about these types of subjects.

[President]

Gorgetrapper you just proved that you probably never played EQ Classic in the first place. Dyeing fine plate by Blacksmiths has been arround since classic. Dyeing any piece of armor by anyone is what was introduced in Legacy of Ykesha. Try to at least read the posts and comprehend them before you give your opinion. Is people like you that causes the devs to be confused about these types of subjects.

This was already discussed at length in other threads. I believe the conclusion was (buy devs) that dying armor was not in classic.

Your welcome to go through Alla or patch notes and prove them wrong.

[PearlJammzz]

Here is what the book reads:


How to Dye and Stain

Dyes are made from the extracts of plants and other organic material. You must go out and collect items from the environment to make the colors you desire.

Some include: permafrost crystals, evergreen leafs, sarcoscypha fungus, russet oxide, jack-o-lantern fungus, iron oxide, and charcoal.

Once you have collected an item, one who is skilled in the art of alchemy or poison making can extract the colors. This is done by combining it with a flask of water and an empty vial. This will create the extract.

From here you must purchase resin, a medium clay jar and combine it with the extract. One, two, or three resins combined will provide a different shade of the color.

Staining your Armor:

To apply your product to a piece of fine steel plate, you must forge the armor with lacquer, the dye, and a jar of acid.

Once this process is finished you will not be able to remove the stain from your armor.

As you can see it's MUCH different than the prismatic dyes that were added later. The prismatic dyes let you change any armor piece, at any time. Cloth, leather, chain, plate, whatever. This stuff is used ONLY for fine plate AND you have to forge the dye with the fine plate. This isn't the whole change colors on a whim thing that happened in LoY.

I also found a reference to it on alla. I am sure if someone spent the time going through the different items that are required for the combines they could find more/similar comments. Notice the comment that is in may of 2001. That's Velious era. Check it:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=4613&page=1&howmany=50#m98892037999842

[Virgis]

I stopped playing 3 months after SoL launched and I remember dyed fine plate. One of my alts had a black fine plate helm.

[Rogean]

It was possibly to dye fine steel armor as part of the tradeskill process, completely different from the armor dye mechanics introduced in LoY. That's all I can remember, I don't know the details of it, and I don't deal with merchant lists. One of the other devs will need to look into it.

[Hasbinbad]

Dyeing fine plate by Blacksmiths has been arround since classic.
Webwolf, you just proved that you were not around during classic (or that your memory is FUBAR).

[Webwolf]

Webwolf, you just proved that you were not around during classic (or that your memory is FUBAR).

If you read my first reply you will see my source of info. How about you post yours?

[President]

If you read my first reply you will see my source of info. How about you post yours?

Both of your "source info" links are from October 2000. After Kunark was released...

[PearlJammzz]

Both of your "source info" links are from October 2000. After Kunark was released...

Correct, BUT just because no one leaves a comment from Kunark era or Velious era as the first post doesn't mean that it wasn't in the game at that time. It's just the first time someone commented on it on Alla. If no one sees patch notes specifically stating that the dyed fine plate was in game then chances are pretty good that it was in at launch/around launch. I really wish we had more specific info, but unless someone can prove otherwise it usually goes with whomever has the best info.

That being said this change makes little difference to me (Rogue). I just know for a fact that this was around pre-Luclin so we'll get it sometime. If we get it at a late date then the books/components/etc. should be removed from the game, and noted to be added back at a later date yes?

My 2cp...

[Hasbinbad]

From http://www.eqtraders.com/articles/article_page.php?article=g285&menustr=030000000000
Fine Plate Dyes (Alchemy, Make Poison, Pottery, for use in Smithing) The very first set of dyes to be made available, fine plate dyes can only be used to tint fine plate armor. Fine plate is a line of basic, smithed plate armor. These dyes actually permanently change the color of each piece of armor. However, with the subsequent introduction of prismatic dyes, fine plate dyes have fallen into disuse. They are now useful mainly just by tradeskillers to improve skill in alchemy or make poison.Notice that it says "the first to be made available," implying that they were not available at one point.

from http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20011204.html
We will be polishing up issues regarding tinted items in game. In other words, things that shouldn't tint with a tinted item (e.g. your skin) won't tint when the feature is complete.notice how just as luclin is about to drop, they are still working the bugs out of armor tinting

from http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20011206.html
Armor layer tinting (e.g. tinting your armor without tinting your skin).again implying that they were still working out the bugs during december of '01

from http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20011210.html
As we wrap up the technology-related issues over the course of this week, making sure that everyone who wants to play EverQuest can play EverQuest, the programming team will shift their focus to aesthetic issues such as animation speed/timing, armor tinting, face-picker operation, etc. We do indeed plan on getting to all of these issues in the very short term.still not done!

Sooo, basically, stu fu.

[PearlJammzz]

The first to be made available does NOT imply that they were not in game in the original EQ.

What are you trying to show other than during the time of the Luclin launch there were issues w/ the dyes? Point taken, but regardless of the bugs present in oldschool EQ the above post that I made PROVED they were in game right after the Velious launch. My data pre-dates yours by the greater half of a year. Any solid evidence on when they were put into the game?

Seems your whole point is that we should not have it in the game because of some code related issues where sometimes the colors weren't showing up perfect? Are we now in the business of replicating bugs to be classic?

Soooo, STFU I will not :).

[PearlJammzz]

Earliest reference I can find to people actually dyeing the armor is early 2001. That at least puts us in early Velious times. I'll do some more digging when I don't have homework :).

[PearlJammzz]

Looks like the earliest reference I can find to the actual book being in the game is August of 2000. This puts it a few months into Kunark. Here is a like of the screen shot:

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/912/fineplatedye.jpg

So at the very least we should have it by Kunark era. Anyone else have some more definitive data?

[Webwolf]

So at the very least we should have it by Kunark era. Anyone else have some more definitive data?

I agree, eqtraders archives on web.archive.org clearly shows entries of fine plate dyes on dates pre Velious. However after reading this post by Nilbog (http://project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=30320&postcount=11) I kinda get what is going on, tho I hope I am wrong. It seems that he opposes dyes because he likes rubicite (and fine plate can be dyed rubicite red). So I think we may never see fine plate dyes even if we can prove that they existed back then. To me its very disappointing that a dev would leave a crucial part of a trade skill out of the game because of his personal prefferences. He is very active on these forums yet he avoids posts regarding fine plate dyes. Here is another exemple (http://project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2334&highlight=dyes). I am sorry for calling you out on this Nilbog but it needs to be addressed.

[Gorgetrapper]

Dyes are a crucial part of a trade skill? Since when?

[guineapig]

Dyes are a crucial part of a trade skill? Since when?

Well in a round about way it is beneficial to those working on trade skills.
They help people that are working on alchemy and poison skills by giving them other options for skill ups as well as more items to sell to players. Also, it makes fine steel items a bit more desirable for people to purchase. So in short, it helps the trade skill economy / community.

[Webwolf]

You said it all guneapig. I've spent countless hours and several thousands of plat on smithing in order to raise the skill high enough so I was able to make fine plate only to find out that the dyes that would make my product more desirable have been taken out of the game because of the rubycite.

Lets face it rubycite was always seen as crap since the early days with the exception of the BP which was nice on a twink. Even fine plate is crappy and intented only for low to mid lvls so its not like you would be seeing every one running arround wearing it, its actually quite easy to distinguish someone in a set of dyed fine plate.

[President]

You said it all guneapig. I've spent countless hours and several thousands of plat on smithing in order to raise the skill high enough so I was able to make fine plate only to find out that the dyes that would make my product more desirable have been taken out of the game because of the rubycite.

Lets face it rubycite was always seen as crap since the early days with the exception of the BP which was nice on a twink. Even fine plate is crappy and intented only for low to mid lvls so its not like you would be seeing every one running arround wearing it, its actually quite easy to distinguish someone in a set of dyed fine plate.

You are still yet to prove that the dyes were in the game Pre-Kunark so stop this bullshit about the "devs taking them out of the game because of Rubicite."

This shit works very simply. Prove it is supposed to be in the game and the Dev's will add it.

Thus far, you have not proved that this should be CURRENTLY in the game.

[Hasbinbad]

You are still yet to prove that the dyes were in the game Pre-Kunark so stop this bullshit about the "devs taking them out of the game because of Rubicite."

This shit works very simply. Prove it is supposed to be in the game and the Dev's will add it.

Thus far, you have not proved that this should be CURRENTLY in the game.
I love how he ignored the flurry of patches dealing with fixing tints as if that would have happened some large block of time after it was introduced..

His interpretation:

Verant starts EQ with tintable FP armor.
It is obviously wrong, to the point where it needs to be fixed because it dyes peoples skin.
Verant does nothing for TWO YEARS +.
One day, out of the blue, they decide to fix it, releasing 4+ patches dealing with the problem within a 1 week period and calling it an IMPENDING CHANGE.

Do you guys remember having tinted skin for two years? I sure as hell don't!
Hilarious no?

[PearlJammzz]

Those patches were all during the implementation/transition of/to Luclin. All they show is that they had bugs with them at that point.

I remember people having various colored armor back in the day but it was only the plate classes...and no one had it cause it was super spendy. Also there are no posts on EQTraders about all these supposed bugs that lasted years. I even found all the spawn locations for the ground spawn items needed:

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4821/groundspawns.jpg

Here is another info page (this page extends down to say how to apply it to the armor, and states once done it cannot be undone. EVER):

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/821/moreinfo.jpg

Notice how the items drop ONLY in the old world? This gives hints to the era. Why introduce this in late Velious/Luclin era, and make all the drops and the only places to purchase the items needed in the old world? And only apply this dye to old extremely out-dated armor? You have to think of what tradeskill stuff was able to be made by the Velious era. We had leather armor for rogues that trump even the best raid dropped armor now. Why would they implement the dye for old worthless armor at that point? They wouldn't.

Notice how it's for armor that's pretty much too expensive to make to even be worth it? A whole set isn't that much better than bronze, and it's craaazy spendy to make. That's why you didn't see a lot of it.

Do you have anymore info other than some patch notes that indicated that during the readying of Luclin they had issues with it? I am all about keeping it classic and implementing these recipes when they are supposed to be implemented, but your data sucks. What we have posted trumps yours. Of course the more specific we find the better we'll be.

Feel free to add anyone. The more information we have the better chance we have of figuring this out!

[President]

I am all about keeping it classic and implementing these recipes when they are supposed to be implemented, but your data sucks. What we have posted trumps yours. Of course the more specific we find the better we'll be.

Uh... really? Yall have shown NOTHING so far that shows armor dye is pre-kunark, and barely have information showing its pre-velious.

So no - your data sucks.

You guys need to get something through your head. What you have to do is prove it WAS in the game, we don't have to prove it WASN'T in the game.

What do you think has a better chance of being in the patch notes?

#1 "Added/Updated dyed fine plate into the game on this date"

#2 "There still isn't fine plate dye in the game!"

[Webwolf]

I really would like to hear from Nilbog about this. Isn't he the one in charge? President quit being a troll. I'm done talking to you.

[PearlJammzz]

Uh... really? Yall have shown NOTHING so far that shows armor dye is pre-kunark, and barely have information showing its pre-velious.

So no - your data sucks.

You guys need to get something through your head. What you have to do is prove it WAS in the game, we don't have to prove it WASN'T in the game.

What do you think has a better chance of being in the patch notes?

#1 "Added/Updated dyed fine plate into the game on this date"

#2 "There still isn't fine plate dye in the game!"

The information we have now firmly puts the items/recipes in game by Kunark. Thus far this is the best information we have. As I said the more specific the better. I have yet seeing a patch note that says the shit was added? All I see is patch notes saying that it was bugged at some time right before Luclin.

So do you have any information to add or are you just here to just yap yer trap?

Thus it stands it WAS in game by a few months into Kunark according to the data we have found. Anyone have anymore information?

[President]

I really would like to hear from Nilbog about this. Isn't he the one in charge? President quit being a troll. I'm done talking to you.

Really? Trolling? All I have done is tell you what the GM's require when making a change to the game. By continuing to IGNORE that and DEMANDING TO TALK TO THE LEADER you are the one being no better than a troll.

Sitting here whining about wanting to talk to a GM when multiple have people here have told you that you need to find evidence of when dyes existed is pathetic. Not to mention multiple stating IT WASN'T IN CLASSIC.

You need to get it out of your head that I am responding in an attempt to "troll" or "crush" your idea. If you want to get dyes for fine plate added to the game, you need to do exactly what I have stated in every post, and find proof of when it existed. (Thus far, it only seems to have been proven that it was post Kunark, pre Luclin).

Oh, and if you want to get GM's attention, ignoring helpful posts and whining in an incessant manner is not the way to do it.

[President]

Thus it stands it WAS in game by a few months into Kunark according to the data we have found. Anyone have anymore information?

No one here is denying the fact that the evidence shows it came in post Kunark except for Webwolf who claims it should already be in the game. I don't know why you are arguing with me Pearl I have not said anything else other than if you think it should be in the game NOW then you need to find evidence of that.

[guineapig]

I'm not going to take sides here but I will quote this:

"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence."

So while nobody has been able to firmly prove yet that the dyes are pre-Kunark, nobody has been able to prove that they are post Kunark either. Continue...

/em grabs some popcorn

[Omnimorph]

In my experience i never saw them in classic, hell i never saw fine plate in classic either.

What i do remember is seeing a bunch of interestingly coloured warriors running around with wurmslayers... so i'd say kunark was when it was introduced.

Was fine plate in classic? i didn't pay as much attention to tradeskills and recipes and what not in classic so i don't know. I don't remember people selling it or taking orders for it though, just banded...

[President]

I'm not going to take sides here but I will quote this:

"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence."

So while nobody has been able to firmly prove yet that the dyes are pre-Kunark, nobody has been able to prove that they are post Kunark either. Continue...

/em grabs some popcorn


Unfortunately Verant didn't put in patch notes what isn't in the game yet, but what was added/changed. So it's extremely hard to prove something like this wasn't in the game in comparison to proving when it was.


Although your quote is meaningful in the religious sense, it is not meaningful to dev's who are trying to get this game as close to classic as possible. Just like every other post of every other item/quest/change, they want who/what/when/where/why/how dated proof before making those changes.

[President]

Omni, It was discussed that fine plate wasn't classic, though I am not sure when it was added in, and unsure of the reasoning for leaving it in(here). I assume it was left in because nobody was going to complain about not having to wear bronze into your 40's.

[PearlJammzz]

heresay is heresay. Just because someone doesn't remember it doesn't mean it wasn't there. Still all I can find is references from Kunark era...but VERY early Kunark. Here is a May 11th 2000 screen shot from Alla:

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1629/evenmoreinfo.jpg

This wasn't a feature touted with Kunark so I imagine it came sometime between right before Kunark to right after Kunark. Again any better info is mucho appreciated. Sucks we can't find a specific post saying when it was added, but evidence now shows up at early as May 2000.

I am just trying to get the point across that it was at the very least during early, early Kunark. Being only old-world stuff I really do think it was probably added late in vanilla, right before Kunark. Again though no concrete evidence supports that this was in game prior to May 2000.

[Webwolf]

Really? Trolling? All I have done is tell you what the GM's require when making a change to the game. By continuing to IGNORE that and DEMANDING TO TALK TO THE LEADER you are the one being no better than a troll.

Read my posts and you will see that I am trying to make a constructive argument about a legitimate concern of many. You keep posting about something that clearly you have no clue about in an attempt of turning this thread into a flame. If that isn't that's trolling tell me what is.

And I am not demanding anything. I simply would like to hear Nilbog's opinion on this since he is the one in charge of trade skills and vendors and I don't understand his avoidance of threads regarding fine plate dyes.

[President]

Read my posts and you will see that I am trying to make a constructive argument about a legitimate concern of many. You keep posting about something that clearly you have no clue about in an attempt of turning this thread into a flame. If that isn't that's trolling tell me what is.

And I am not demanding anything. I simply would like to hear Nilbog's opinion on this since he is the one in charge of trade skills and vendors and I don't understand his avoidance of threads regarding fine plate dyes.



At no point have I ever tried to turn this thread into a flame. I have read every single one of your posts and at no point have you provided a shroud of evidence that dyes should CURRENTLY be in the game.

Yes, maybe it's time for a GM to come tell you to find evidence before they will incorporate it into the game since you are obviously too hard headed to read and understand constructive posts.

[Daydrem]

Dyes... not classic. that is all.

[Humerox]

Dyes were definitely post-Kunark release.

I didn't start playing until a week before the Kunark patch, and had been playing for a while before dyed armor was brought in.

Exactly when I don't know, but there is no question in my mind that dyes came after Kunark was released.

[PearlJammzz]

Well we have good evidence showing they were in game 2 months after Kunark's release so it was at the very least around that time.

Another thing to note that this dye was for 1 specific type of crafted armor that could be done ONCE. This wasn't the prismatic dyes that came w/ LoY.

So unless we can get better evidence it looks like all this should get put it right when Kunark does. At least we've gathered info on spawn points and recipes so it should all be put in correctly :).

And the reason no one really remembers it because it was just for show. The armor is crap, and stupid expensive to make. Not to mention the spawns for the items to dye it are on a long respawn timer (some of the stuff I found suggested up to 12hrs!), and require a rogue or shammy to mix it up.

So ya, it'd take a week of farming to just make 1 suit of a color, and even then it was just for show as the armor was worthless. Also it was restricted to plate classes. Yet another reason why we didn't really see much of it. It's really a minor thing to be in game, and won't ever be used by hardly anybody other than people who want to look cool walking around Freeport.

[Silvermink]

In my experience i never saw them in classic, hell i never saw fine plate in classic either.

What i do remember is seeing a bunch of interestingly coloured warriors running around with wurmslayers... so i'd say kunark was when it was introduced.

Was fine plate in classic? i didn't pay as much attention to tradeskills and recipes and what not in classic so i don't know. I don't remember people selling it or taking orders for it though, just banded...

I also remember banded being much higher trivial in classic. While Fine Plate may or may not have been in classic, it is in here, why not let us Dye it? Also, Wu's wasn't in classic I don't see people ranting to have it removed. It's not like dye is a game changing overpowered concept. It's also pretty probable all the recipes are in, just the vials are missing so not a huge amount of work to be done.

PS: sorry if i resurrected a dead thread.

[guineapig]

Well since it's resurrected I guess it's safe for me to ask if the missing pieces for these recipes will be added to the game shortly after Kunark launch?

Could even include it in the Patch that unlocks The Hole.