Troll or Barb - shaman race?

[beentheredonethat]

From your experience which one works out better, especially for leveling?
Trolls have really nice regen, but it seems like there are better stats for Barbs and no exp penalty... do these benefits outweight Troll regen in any way?

[citizen1080]

Ogre - If you are not tanking your mobs you are doing it wrong. And getting stunned mid slow is no fun.

However, if you have the funds for barb spirit hammer than I might go that direction..cause its nuts...at least till velious.

Troll regen is a moot point once you have torpor.

So from a min/max standpoint I would say ogre > barb > troll depending on your bankroll

[beentheredonethat]

bankroll at 10 plat.... Is Ogre a good assumption therefore?

[skorge]

Come Velious trolls > barbs...so u can say the top two shaman classes are ogres and trolls...because snare doesnt work as it should here due to a faster mob run rate, the regent symbol of innoruk plays no part in decided which race is better...if it did then the troll would be better than ogre IMO. Ur regen will suck as ogre its probably about even, the frontal stun immunity vs the extra regen. Just dont play iksar cuz u wont be able to use the JBB

[mokfarg]

Ogre - If you are not tanking your mobs you are doing it wrong. And getting stunned mid slow is no fun.

However, if you have the funds for barb spirit hammer than I might go that direction..cause its nuts...at least till velious.

Troll regen is a moot point once you have torpor.

So from a min/max standpoint I would say ogre > barb > troll depending on your bankroll

Bob what set of shaman gear/weapons should someone be going for on a budget of 3k? I am not real familiar with pricing but I know you are! I was thinking about some jaundice pieces and totemic, whatever is the best AC per plat.

[beentheredonethat]

Come Velious trolls > barbs...so u can say the top two shaman classes are ogres and trolls...because snare doesnt work as it should here due to a faster mob run rate, the regent symbol of innoruk plays no part in decided which race is better...if it did then the troll would be better than ogre IMO. Ur regen will suck as ogre its probably about even, the frontal stun immunity vs the extra regen. Just dont play iksar cuz u wont be able to use the JBB

Thanks, would you put any points into Dex/Agi as shaman? Seems like Ogres have those stats at lowest in comparison to Trolls/Barbs

[vageta31]

Bob what set of shaman gear/weapons should someone be going for on a budget of 3k? I am not real familiar with pricing but I know you are! I was thinking about some jaundice pieces and totemic, whatever is the best AC per plat.

AC doesn't work correctly on this server, your best bet is to load up on cheap hp/mana gear and get ac in any spots that you cant get something better. Things like glowing bone collar, plat fire rings/plat skull rings, embroidered sleeves/cloak, sebilite belt, golden jaded bracelets, gatorscale leggings, etc.. Most of that is very affordable and together add up to a large amount of hit points that make the earlier levels much easier.

[vageta31]

P.S. Go ogre. Troll regen makes the earlier levels easier, but long term the ogre is the stronger choice. People will always chime in about their favorite race but in terms of power Ogre has a clear advantage in stats and stun immunity. Ogre's truly are the best choice in any class they can be.

[Kevlar]

Go barb, trolls and ogres look like dogshit.

Everquest is all about style, you won't regret it.

[aresprophet]

P.S. Go ogre. Troll regen makes the earlier levels easier, but long term the ogre is the stronger choice. People will always chime in about their favorite race but in terms of power Ogre has a clear advantage in stats and stun immunity. Ogre's truly are the best choice in any class they can be.

Listen to Bob and this guy, they know what's up. That frontal stun immunity on a spellcaster is the biggest thing ever. It'll save you mana, save you time, and save your life.

[Webwolf]

Go barb, trolls and ogres look like dogshit.

Everquest is all about style, you won't regret it.

[SwordNboard]

Iksar. Once Velious comes you'll be happier. Besides Gear isn't that bad for an iksar considering you get good jewelry. You won't be tanking high end anyway unless you're camping something, in which case, will be lower level than you anyway.

[aresprophet]

Iksar. Once Velious comes you'll be happier. Besides Gear isn't that bad for an iksar considering you get good jewelry. You won't be tanking high end anyway unless you're camping something, in which case, will be lower level than you anyway.

I believe Iksar cannot use JBB and other JB pieces.

[SwordNboard]

I believe Iksar cannot use JBB and other JB pieces.

No they can't, but it's not game-breaking. All you min/max'ers will dwell on this though as if it's the only reason you're rolling the class. Also, Iksar have the most wisdom if your play style is more caster oriented, which by suprise, is what a shaman is.

[aresprophet]

No they can't, but it's not game-breaking. All you min/max'ers will dwell on this though as if it's the only reason you're rolling the class. Also, Iksar have the most wisdom if your play style is more caster oriented, which by suprise, is what a shaman is.

JBB is one game-changer of an item, though. I could take or leave the rest of the JB stuff but the bracer is probably the single best Kunark class armor piece.

[SwordNboard]

...best Kunark class armor piece.

This server isn't stopping at Kunark. Gotta think ahead! Besides, to the OP, play what you like the most. Going for max stats will just have you with your account in the EC forum later on.

[beentheredonethat]

Well, I'm not min/maxing in any way. Just want to go with whats more fun/easier to play with least downtime.

[blizzil]

troll with natural regen + regrowth + fungi Tunic = better than stun immunity.

add in a shawl with velious its not really a contest.

[beentheredonethat]

troll with natural regen + regrowth + fungi Tunic = better than stun immunity.

add in a shawl with velious its not really a contest.

realistically i have a better chance of winning a lottery than eventually getting a fungi.

[Muaar]

Been thinking about this exact subject for some time, but for pvp. I originally was a troll, then decided barb because of the exp penalty - but I'm thinking ogre shaman will me the strongest choice for pvp. Interrupts galore!

[SyanideGas]

Troll for the regen.

[citizen1080]

Those of you saying JBB is not a big deal have never played a shaman with one. It is Game breaking...there is no debate. None. It is still game breaking in velious where this server stops.

To put it bluntly...picking Iksar on the ground that they have higher innate wisdom is retarded. Wisdom is not only incredibly easy to max but it is also not all that useful.

Like necromancers HP = Mana for shaman. You are better off stacking hp than wisdom gear except for certain circumstances...such as raid buffing.


Look at it this way...even if you are not a min/max'r do you really wanna be 60 one day and watch a ogre shammy solo lodi..while your barb gets fucked up due to stuns?

troll with natural regen + regrowth + fungi Tunic = better than stun immunity.

add in a shawl with velious its not really a contest.

Like I said...moot point with torpor.

[Orruar]

Anyone who says ogre for stun immunity is probably just repeating what they've heard, and never actually played a shaman. A turgurs'ed mob bashes once every 32 seconds. Only about half of those land. So a non ogre gets interrupted once a minute or so. And if you're tanking unslowed mobs that can possibly kill you, you're doing something wrong. Learn to use your pet effectively to absorb damage early in the fight. The only time I wish I had stun immunity is when I'm PLing and tanking many unslowed green cons.

Starting stats are the only reason I'd consider ogre a good choice. However, with velious, it will become rather easy to cap STA and get wis to 200+ with any race, so stats become less important.

Troll regen is nice, but it can't beat barb spirit hammer. An extra 8 hp a tick for a troll is like getting 4 mana a tick, which can then be converted to 20 damage max. So you get an extra 3 dps or so from troll regen. Barb hammer is far more than that. I haven't done any parsing of it, but by eyeballing, I'd say it's somewhere in the 10-25 range. And you don't need to be rich now to afford one. Save your money and by the time you're of the level to proc it, you may have enough.

Barb > Troll > Ogre

[beentheredonethat]

there are so many conflicting posts. Sounds like Ogre just has better stats by far though.

[deneauth]

I would say Ogre if you are only interested in the max/min aspect of your character. I like barbarians better because they do get decent stats and blackburrow is the best newbie zone in the game. That and my live character was a barbarian shaman xoxoxo :) Oh yeah and barbarians look super cool too!

[Gris]

Something to keep in mind about trolls (and iksar) is that while racial regen becomes less important at 60, it is very nice from 1 to 59.

[Huddaan]

So pretty much:

Ogre = Best for min/maxing and awesome frontal stun immunity, is a big fatty

Troll = Less downtime with regen, also big

Iksar = Less downtime with regen, gear is lacking till Velious, no JBB

Barbarian = Not hated, less exp penalty

So.. Just play what you think looks cool, you'll still be happy with your choice.

On a side note, what does everyone think about these two 2handers?

Barbarian Spiritist`s Hammer vs Granite Face Grinder

[Extunarian]

GFG is fun. I just sold mine but I'd usually hit for 120's with str around 230.

The downside is that once you have a jbb every weapon you use basically gets a delay of 80 since you only swing once between casts, but it's addition to your dps is not trivial.

And to add to the jbb argument...as a soloing shaman I couldn't imaging life without a jbb. Our damaging spells just cost too much mana.

[Extunarian]

JBB is so overrated

In a group larger than 2? Yes.

Solo/duo? The efficiency the jbb brings to the table cannot be overstated.

[Ephirith]

I can't stand looking like an ogre or troll, and the lore behind ogre/troll/barb is completely boring to me and in fact largely non-existent.

So I rolled an iksar, and it's always going to suck balls not being able to use the JBB, but EQ was never a game where I felt like I wanted to min/max, in which case ogre would be the obvious choice.

Probably because one of the things that sucked me into EQ was the difficulty and inconvenience inherent in the design, and then the sense of accomplishment when you succeed. The other day in Firionia Vie I had to sneak my level 14 Iksar across hordes of spider elves with no invis, only to climb onto a dock infested with hostile guards and hope there was a friendly invis-er nearby who could help me onto the boat.

In WoW, I would have simply stepped onto the boat. Convenient? Yes. Fun? Memorable? Immersive? No.

[Sslaesha]

In WoW, I would have simply stepped onto the boat. Convenient? Yes. Fun? Memorable? Immersive? No.

This is why EQ reigns over all.

[Kevlar]

In WoW, I would have simply stepped onto the boat. Convenient? Yes. Fun? Memorable? Immersive? No.

I take it you never tried taking a zeppelin as alliance. Wow had the same exact mechanic, a transport for good races and a transport for bad.

[Ephirith]

I take it you never tried taking a zeppelin as alliance. Wow had the same exact mechanic, a transport for good races and a transport for bad.

Last I checked there's no Iksar boat. And there is a lot more at stake here if you get knocked out by the guards trying to sneak onto a boat, like exp loss and a long, dangerous corpse run. I'm not saying WoW was a bad game, I had a hell of a good time playing it, just highlighting the things I like about EQ

[mokfarg]

AC doesn't work correctly on this server, your best bet is to load up on cheap hp/mana gear and get ac in any spots that you cant get something better. Things like glowing bone collar, plat fire rings/plat skull rings, embroidered sleeves/cloak, sebilite belt, golden jaded bracelets, gatorscale leggings, etc.. Most of that is very affordable and together add up to a large amount of hit points that make the earlier levels much easier.

I thought they got the AC issues worked out or am I incorrect? I imagine this would be a priority if AC was broken.

[mokfarg]

I can't stand looking like an ogre or troll, and the lore behind ogre/troll/barb is completely boring to me and in fact largely non-existent.

So I rolled an iksar, and it's always going to suck balls not being able to use the JBB, but EQ was never a game where I felt like I wanted to min/max, in which case ogre would be the obvious choice.

Probably because one of the things that sucked me into EQ was the difficulty and inconvenience inherent in the design, and then the sense of accomplishment when you succeed. The other day in Firionia Vie I had to sneak my level 14 Iksar across hordes of spider elves with no invis, only to climb onto a dock infested with hostile guards and hope there was a friendly invis-er nearby who could help me onto the boat.

In WoW, I would have simply stepped onto the boat. Convenient? Yes. Fun? Memorable? Immersive? No.

I liked the way my ogre looked untill he is now forced to wear the most ugly helm on the world ... I know it isn't classic to be able to hide it but ... :(

[beentheredonethat]

what is this jbb acronym everyone talks about?

[quenyar]

http://http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Jaundiced_Bone_Bracer (http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Jaundiced_Bone_Bracer)

Mana free 263dd spell as effect...

[isoka]

From your experience which one works out better, especially for leveling?
Trolls have really nice regen, but it seems like there are better stats for Barbs and no exp penalty... do these benefits outweight Troll regen in any way?

Leveling. As a shaman, you can either solo or group.

Grouping : In such a case, your main role will be to keep your group buffed and to slow incoming mobs. You might be used as a healer, but you would burn all your mana into healings making it difficult to keep up with buffs and slow unless you have torpor.
Anyway, in such a situation, mana pool isn't that important since you most likely never face situations where you have to chain cast healing spells or direct damage spells to get out of a shitty situation. Remember. Your role is to keep the group buffed, to keep the mobs slowed, and to patch heal. This is done through a nice mana regen, not through a huge mana pool.
The troll/iksar regen (especially while sitting) makes a huge difference when combined with cannibalize regarding mana regen. Stun immune ability and barbarian spirit hammer are of no use there.

Soloing : Two schools (both involve a slowed mob).
You will see many people saying that if you aren't tanking your mob, you are doing it wrong.
Pros : You kill your mob faster since you dps while tanking and you don't have to wait for your pet to be full life to engage another mob.
Cons : You take the hits (so you lose mana since those hp lost aren't converted through canni), you don't meditate (so you lose even more mana through time), you don't use your pet regen ability since you tank.

The other school is to root, dot and have pet on mob while either medding, either JBBing.
Pros : You take less hits so you have an overall higher mana regen (remember, root is only 30 mana and often saves more than 60dmg of melee hits, especially at high levels where mobs hit for 150 and double attack).
Cons : Your pet will need to regen inbetween fights but you will also need to canni inbetween fights to rebuild the mana used for slow and dots. So it's not really an issue.

So, in the soloing field, I would say that all three races can find their happyness. Barbs and ogres will most likely go the first way while trolls and iksars will most likely use their regen ability by rooting their mobs. The only situation where you might want the stun immune ability is against a mob you can't root.

Regarding torpor, the moment you get it, you will basically turn into an endless mana machine. However, you could wonder why all shamans want a fungi, even with torpor. It's because it makes it more convenient. The more hp regen you have, the less you have to torpor. Regen ability is really strong for a shaman.
So at the end of the day, Ogre, Barb, Troll or Iksar, the moment you get torpor, you can do whatever you want, it's just that some races will need to torpor more than some others.

isoka, troll forever

[boozehammer]

Thanks for that post, Isoka. Confirming my experience as a caster-based troll shaman, instead of hearing I'm 'doing it wrong' from all these meleeing shammys. I've solo'd 1-50 (90% of the time, but never grouping out of need) as a root/rot'er in safety and with surprising (to me) speed.

That's what is nice about the shaman class, they can be very versatile.

[quido]

Shamans suck