Is this enormous balance problem going to be fixed somehow? [Archive]

MakeYouMad

10-23-2011, 04:08 AM

Typically, every good player on PvP servers either has casted or potion SOW up 24/7. On this server, they made it so root removes SOW and root lands a lot even on 140MR.

This has the following implications:

1. Every pure melee vs caster fight, the caster will be able to keep his casted or potion SOW up, the melee will have his SOW knocked off with root and be running slower with Jboots.

2. Every pure melee vs hybrid fight, the hybrid will be able to keep his SOW up while the pure melee will have his instantly knocked off with root or snare then be forced to use Jboots.

How the fuck is this balanced?

It was already next to impossible to chase down casters in outdoor zones, now melees will also be running slower than them too? Let's not forget that emu servers don't track player movement as well as EQ live, so it's already harder to hit targets running away from you in the first place. These two factors combine together to be a large balance problem.

This is starting to look exactly like VZTZ, big changes made to the game with no regards to melee vs hybrid or melee vs caster balance.

mimixownzall

10-23-2011, 04:14 AM

Not EVERY pure melee vs caster fight. If you find a mage without his pet, that is an easy kill right thuur.

Null

10-23-2011, 04:34 AM

I think that root and snare should not overwrite movement speed effects like SoW due to how much more often they land compared to classic.

I have already brought this up to my pal developers but we didn't have a lot of time to talk it over as something to change. However I will bring it up again next time we are talking about related topics.

Thanks for the concise and non-douchie beta feedback good sir!

Bockscar

10-23-2011, 06:04 AM

Aren't we going with classic resists where root/snare basically don't land on people in PvP gear? We won't need retarded fixes if we stick to classic. It worked then and it'll work now. We've seen what happens with custom shit.

Clearrain

10-23-2011, 07:33 AM

getting rooted or snared barely ever occurred at high level. It made my earth pet kind of useless other than being a badass.

Billbike

10-23-2011, 07:59 AM

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk81/djreverendrob/Waaambulance.jpg

It's beta. No need for a tantrum.

Palemoon

10-23-2011, 08:54 AM

For what it is worth, currently on Al'kabor:

Roots will NOT remove SoW

Snare type effects WILL remove SoW

Mardur

10-23-2011, 09:05 AM

Tantrum is the only form of communication that he knows.

Scailed

10-25-2011, 06:39 AM

[QUOTE=Palemoon;442061Roots will NOT remove SoW

Snare type effects WILL remove SoW[/QUOTE]

Correct~

Scailed

10-25-2011, 06:40 AM

Gnar

10-25-2011, 08:54 AM

How the fuck is this balanced?

makeumad = mad.

He does make a valid point; root / snare should not be landing so much on 140MR AND removing movement buffs.

dusk883

10-25-2011, 06:25 PM

Sounds like Bards will make good friends

Amuk

10-25-2011, 09:43 PM

Root/snare landing = boring pvp.

georgie

10-25-2011, 09:56 PM

Root/snare landing = boring pvp.

= paladins getting rocked by monks and camping out when monk is rooted. ik this thru personal experience

Nirgon

10-25-2011, 11:12 PM

Sprinkle

10-25-2011, 11:26 PM

they dont read any of the bickering you know

Null

10-25-2011, 11:33 PM

Lol let's have a pvp balance discussion about how to make all the classes "fair" in EQ pvp. Make it classic and tell people fuck off.

Make sure you open the forums to balance discussion, listen to people and make all kinds of on the fly changes until the community feels like things are balanced.

Threads down the road: "This class is OP", "Nerf this class", "Buff this class". Have fun with with custom toilet.

There is a difference between trying to get every class perfectly balanced in pvp with one another and altering a underline mechanic of the game to avoid being practically unkillable to over half the classes in the game.

Sprinkle

10-25-2011, 11:38 PM

null please roll the server , tired of playing garbage games , i want to play my eq

Amuk

10-25-2011, 11:41 PM

mimixownzall

10-25-2011, 11:51 PM

mimixownzall

10-25-2011, 11:56 PM

gloinz

10-25-2011, 11:59 PM

Paladins are going to be gods, btw.

Oh! you trying to run away? root

You trying to cast? stun

You trying to sick pet on me? Root

You trying to cast again? Stun

Wait.. another cast.. Stun

Here... I'll let you cast.. oh nm you're dead.

ya i have no idea why im against it since im playing a dwarf pally and they definately get the biggest boost by having their measley root get partial resisted so they can get a swing on a casters face

i guess i like not having to worry about roots/snares i guess since they can completely destroy you when you fighting more then 1v1

that and its a drastic change from classic eq

Sprinkle

10-26-2011, 12:50 AM

dwarf pally just add shield of rainbow + MDS = winner

Sprinkle

10-26-2011, 12:51 AM

thats for 29 pvp ( paw area )

if you want to pvp and win bind outside CB get a dojo axe level 12 - winner

Nirgon

10-26-2011, 02:53 AM

There is a difference between trying to get every class perfectly balanced in pvp with one another and altering a underline mechanic of the game to avoid being practically unkillable to over half the classes in the game.

It's pushing the envelope. At least you can defend something by saying "this is how it was, deal with it" and make your life easier. Something the blue server continues to do and I'd think the majority appreciates.

Harrison

10-26-2011, 02:58 AM

Anyone notice how all of cozmo's posts are about lowbie twink pvp and never about pvp at his level? Scrub detected.

MakeYouMad

10-26-2011, 05:25 AM

There is a difference between trying to get every class perfectly balanced in pvp with one another and altering a underline mechanic of the game to avoid being practically unkillable to over half the classes in the game.

Null, what are you talking about dude. In real EQ, casters can always run away from melees and melees can always run away from casters. It's even in terms of escape. People only stick around for fights they actually have a chance of winning. This is why people liked EQ live PvP.

With your changes, casters can escape just as easy as ever, but melees get this lopsided nerf to their survivability and effectiveness with CC spam. You did not fix any "mechanics problem". You just nerfed the shit out of pure melees and to a lesser extent, hybrids.

Seriously, I dare you to play a melee like rogue or monk with this system. Then every time 2 people appear on your screen, if one of them can cast CC spells, you have to take off running to the zone line before they get anywhere near you or die to kiting tactics. How is that a balance improvement?

Kiting other players is about the lamest form of PvP you could possibly add to the game. People would rather have you just flat out quadruple nuke damage and get nuked into the ground in 2 spells than deal with crap like that.

edit: Oh yea, if you're so insistent on making it so classes like bards have a harder time running away, why can't you accomplish this task with stun only? It affects all classes equally and has a reuse timer so it can't be abused nearly as bad as two people spamming snares for free kills on every melee they see.

Bockscar

10-26-2011, 05:49 AM

People who think they can fix Everquest always end up ruining the server they're working on. There's a reason the only really succesful emu has been the only one that truly tried to adhere to the classic ideal. With custom features, this will be another small-scale server that most people will stop caring about pretty soon.

People come here to play classic Everquest. If they wanted a game where balance adjustments are being made in pursuit of fairness, they'd play a newer MMORPG with much better facilities. The only reason people play on these classic emu servers is because they're looking for the classic experience. Most of those emu servers failed to provide that either by being too bad at creating it, or by intentionally deviating from it. That's why they were never really succesful.

I can't believe the devs here are making the staggering mistake of going custom when it has been proven by themselves that sticking to classic is the road to success. P99 is the exception to a history of terrible and highly temporary "classic" emus that rarely even lasted a full year. People do not come here looking for "Everquest with some balance changes that suit one guy's opinion on what would be better."

Not only that, but by going custom they're just inviting an endless avalanche of retarded suggestions and demands for every little thing that each player thinks would make the game better. If they don't stick to classic, they can't shut people up. There'll be no end to the ridiculous crap people will demand once you've shown that you're not adhering to classic. We're already seeing this now and the server hasn't even launched yet.

Lovely

10-26-2011, 06:02 AM

How about you dumbnuts stop talking for other people? You can write that you want to play 100% classic. But don't sit here and write that people come here to play 100% classic. Cause that's not true and it's been proven on numerous polls.

You guys make it sound like monks and rogue are exping in the middle of Karana's and then a druid jump them and they are toast. Things like that doesn't even exist. When you level a monk you either DUO inside dungeons fully buffed by a shaman/druid or cleric. If you don't do that then you're in a FULL GROUP in a dungeon.

CAN WE PLESAE MAKE ROOTS AND SNARES LAST LONGER? EVERYTIME I GO INTO A DUNGEON A MONK AND ROGUE ARE GONNA JUMP ME AND I WONT BE ABLE TO DO SHIT BESIDE ZONING OR GATING. CAN YOU PLEASE FIX THIS??? SERIOUSLY THIS IS SO UNFAIR THAT I WONT BE AMAZING IN DUNGEONS. PLZ FIX THIS ISSUE AND MAKE ROOT AND SNARES LAST WAY LONGER.

Bockscar

10-26-2011, 06:06 AM

inviting an endless avalanche of retarded suggestions and demands for every little thing that each player thinks would make the game better.

CAN WE PLESAE MAKE ROOTS AND SNARES LAST LONGER? EVERYTIME I GO INTO A DUNGEON A MONK AND ROGUE ARE GONNA JUMP ME AND I WONT BE ABLE TO DO SHIT BESIDE ZONING OR GATING. CAN YOU PLEASE FIX THIS??? SERIOUSLY THIS IS SO UNFAIR THAT I WONT BE AMAZING IN DUNGEONS. PLZ FIX THIS ISSUE AND MAKE ROOT AND SNARES LAST WAY LONGER.

Lovely

10-26-2011, 06:09 AM

What's even more funny is that the ONLY PEOPLE who get jumped solo are casters cause they are the ones playing solo. You won't see a single melee running around in the middle of a zone alone. Even on a blue server the melee's will try to find groups the second they log in and on a PVP server it's even more true.

I'm pretty sure that every single melee will log out in a dungeon or at a safespot like a city if they fix guards. Then they will form a group and move out together and exp in a dungeon. I'm so fucking sick of all this crying that makes no sense whatsoever.

Just on the beta alone I've run into melees at 100+ occasions and 100% of those times it was right outside a dungeon, inside it or at a Druid ring/Wiz spire with a group moving to a dungeon.

MakeYouMad

10-26-2011, 06:36 AM

Lovely didn't even play a PvP server before, he's just making shit up as he goes. On SZ, I'd walk around by myself on monk and run into solo rogues and other melees all the time.

Lovely

10-26-2011, 06:42 AM

Yes I did and this isn't 2001 anymore. People here aren't dumb enough to run around solo as a melee. They aren't on beta so why would they be on live lol.

Melee's rule instances and all the best exp spots/items and raids are inside dungeons. Meleee's are overpowered and that's why I'm rolling monk like I've always played in the past! GOGO POWER MELEE HOUSES! We will rule the casters easypeazy

MakeYouMad

10-26-2011, 06:53 AM

People here aren't dumb enough to run around solo as a melee.

So you're gonna have someone babysitting you 24 hours a day while logged in game? Somebody's gonna follow you around as you go stand at the bank and chain heal you while a bunch of casters, who you can't even see because you don't have see invis, spam nukes and CC spells at you from the roof?

Melee's rule instances

Instances? what fucking instances???

And are you female or an effeminate man? What the fuck is going on here???

Lovely

10-26-2011, 07:00 AM

Why would you leave your instance? You'll be at the same place for days until you out level it and then you hoop to the next dungeon. I really don't see any issue. At level 50 you'll have any even easier time. You'll be unkillable as a Monk unless you run around outdoors all solo doing stupid shit. No matter how many people chase you inside a dungeon you'll be able to FD past any mob so no one can chase you. Can also log out deep inside dungeons anywhere you like with /q while being FD.

If you don't have friends then join a big guild like Fish Bait and you'll have people to dungeon with anytime. Easypeaczy

Bockscar

10-26-2011, 08:10 AM

Those are some absurd assumptions that amount to little more than vague theory with no basis in reality. People aren't going to spend their entire lives inside a dungeon (there are no instances, WoWbie) and most of the players on any given server are loners who don't have a large guild to back them up at all times. You apparently assume that one never encounters melee players anywhere outside of cramped dungeons, and that's just stupid. It's just that melees generally can't solo, and grouping tends to take place in dungeons. Just about anything other than full-group grinding takes place outdoors. I don't know anyone who spends their entire life just grinding in the bottom of a dungeon, and this has never been a problem on PvP servers. Besides, casters are not nearly as fucked in a dungeon as melees are outdoors. Melees do not rule anything, it's just that the only place they don't have a huge disadvantage is in dungeons. Exp spots and item camps have always been dominated by casters, they just sometimes have to give it up if a bigger group comes to claim the place, and that has nothing to do with melees. You won't see a warrior camping FBSS by himself, and you won't see him hold any camp if two casters show up to take it. Melees generally can't do anything by themselves, and when you get right down to it, the only gameplay that doesn't essentially take place outdoors is in the very few dungeons available at any given level. Most raiding, soloing and 1v1 PvP takes place outdoors. At level 40+, anything that isn't in LGuk or SolB is pretty much outdoors - plane raids, most quests and very rare item camps (GBS, Quillmane etc.), casual PvP, exp soloing and so on. You talk as if the game takes place exclusively in narrow corridors when in reality most of it takes place outdoors.

Lovely

10-26-2011, 08:51 AM

No the fact is that you guys talk as casters run into solo melees all over the fucking place and melee are screwed. Fact 1 is that they aren't even screwed in a 1v1 even if it's outdoor. Most casters won't even have the mana to do 100 to 0 hp. You can read my thread instead of posting bullshit here that you haven't even tested yourself. You just talk out of your ass with 0 experience playing this beta.

Bockscar

10-26-2011, 05:14 PM

Like most of this community, you're obviously incapable of having a rational discussion without insane hyperbole and fabricated arguments that you can argue against to prove yourself right.

Lovely

10-26-2011, 05:20 PM

Having a rational discussion on these forums is hopeless and completely useless. I've tried it a few times and it never worked out.

Envious

10-26-2011, 06:45 PM

Welcome to the VZ/TZ crowd.

Anyway, with the outing the hacker thread seemingly locked... I'm glad SWTOR is coming. And ninja pandas.

R99 not legit bros.

Sprinkle

10-26-2011, 07:24 PM

Anyone notice how all of cozmo's posts are about lowbie twink pvp and never about pvp at his level? Scrub detected.

first off i dont see why you are always so mad harrison

second my comment is related to paladins winning in pvp , which can happen under 2 conditions ( in my opinion )

level 12ish in CB With dojo slam procs

or 29ish with massive dragonclaw , big resists lots of action in both spots

i didnt say at level 50 cause at level 50 i think paladins are shit

now 50 sk thats diff

and stop pretending like i have no pvp experience i was on zek for 11 years and have dozens of chars

coz was 12 for 2 years , 24 for a year , 29 for a year , then i leveled him

i usd him as a pvp alt and my main was max level all the time , early on / classic / kunark / velious i was a war

coz was in
level 12 flowers of happiness
level 24 horsemen of doom
level 29 not representing any tag

at 50/60 my war was in knights of no remorse / revered ( Rallos long standing guilds )

by luclin i had switched to bard , was in spirit of the bamboo , once sleeper was woken i joined wudan and stayed with them till the big fail merge ( thats server merge not guild merge )

Wudan was epic in its time , not to be confused with the pussy bluebie faggot guild wudan on p99 right now which is approximately 6 real wudan people

bard was back burner and wiz went primary , after 2 years of solid raiding i needed a break , wudan was epic but all good things come to an end

Coz was leveled to 70 anguish keyed and i joined defiant , and was NONSTOP pvping VS Pandemonium and hate

big battles not just scraps , port in fights in wall of slaughter , fighting for QVic / Tacvi and guild vs guild battles pre arranged

this lasted 2 years

after that i believe i ended up in ascending dawn on another char , got to 85ish as my max , when they released mercs i left EQ Because they unbalanced pvp horribly

almost all my experience with EQ is endgame , and almost all my best memories.......................................... ...

are lowbie pvp

Crenshinabon

10-26-2011, 07:50 PM

as it stands root does not cancel sow.... Rangers and shadowknight ( if darkness cancels it) will be tougher. Rangers needed the help anyways

mimixownzall

10-27-2011, 03:11 PM

60 paladins are bad ass in pvp.

valithteezee

10-27-2011, 04:27 PM

I have to agree with OP. All this "classic" era stuff has so much grey area. EQ in my opinion even after it went live was in a constant state of beta. Just look at the patch notes some of them are PAGES long. They we're working out bugs, fixing server instability, and improving classes via player feedback. I want to make a point that just because something functioned a certain way at release does not make it set in stone as being the "classic way".

My main gripe is the cancellation of SOW from root landing. This is just over the top and was only around for a short period because the community spoke up. I can agree that getting snared SHOULD cancel sow but root is ridiculous.

Melveny

10-27-2011, 05:31 PM

STRAY

10-27-2011, 06:40 PM

Melveny, your name rings a bell... who did you play in Defiant PoP era around when they absorbed Torrent / first dropped Quarm?

Melveny

10-27-2011, 07:20 PM

You may know me as Tweene, during that era time I was with HECK. Code of Honor more specifically.

You?

Sprinkle

10-27-2011, 07:24 PM

60 paladins are bad ass in pvp.

unless your a lowbie twink paladins are shit till they get a nightmare stick from time

or preferably a 2.0 and 1k AA

Sprinkle

10-27-2011, 07:26 PM

Sprinkle who were you in defiant? I led all the raids through end god all of anguish and the beginning of dodh. If you were pvping hate, then it was before their guild disbanded. Myself and Spymonk were leading defiant at this point, Mackeli was Mia , goldy was Mia, borgann was Mia.

Just curious

a wizard named cozmonaut

i remember spymonk we hung out all the time , melv your name sounds familiar but spy was iky monk , we did ROI alot , he pulled like a champ

i left defiant when hate broke up , defiant started scooping players and it basically tainted the guild

i think its very important for a guild like hate on every server , it takes all the mad angry people out of guilds like defiant ( Strategy / pvp / teamwork oriented ) and into those guilds

defiant was basically just like wudan which is why i loved it

Sprinkle

10-27-2011, 07:27 PM

You may know me as Tweene, during that era time I was with HECK. Code of Honor more specifically.

You?

90% sure you were a wood elf , most likely a druid

chance for troll tho , 10% chance of troll haha that sounds funny

Sprinkle

10-27-2011, 07:29 PM

i actually applied to defiant on my bard also , was in midnight haven a long time

was a pande app before that but they just shit on their recruits and it got old fast , and when they chose sped over me ( mega tool ) i was done with them

i ended up gettin an app dismissal over some shaman who always started shit with everyone , i think i told him off even tho i wasnt supposed to as an app , twice

i think his name started with a K , he was a barb , good shaman but a bigtime drama queen

not destiny of zek drama queen level but up there

Melveny

10-27-2011, 07:30 PM

Wood elf rogue

I'm thinking you were de or erudite

Sprinkle

10-27-2011, 07:31 PM

gnome of course

( that guild hated gnomes btw )

and i knew i got wood elf right i knew it

Melveny

10-27-2011, 07:32 PM

I remember that shm in guild. He was good app and good first few months, then developed an ego

Combobreaker

10-27-2011, 07:33 PM

I'm just fine with rocking Jboots and having my sow stripped everytime it lands.

I've always played melee.

Melveny

10-27-2011, 07:35 PM

STRAY

10-31-2011, 05:33 PM

I was Dhante DE rogue - Name changed to Huntington because of that lame-ass human SK Dhantes to avoid his horrible rep.

I was in Dissent, Torrent, and then finally Defiant.

Tamiah2011

10-31-2011, 05:49 PM

For what it is worth, currently on Al'kabor:

Roots will NOT remove SoW

Snare type effects WILL remove SoW

I posted on earlier post about this, In classic SoW was never removed by snare or root but your speed was reduced intill the snare/root effect wore off.

Dantes

10-31-2011, 05:57 PM

You know what would solve this? PvE.

Sprinkle

10-31-2011, 07:06 PM

I stopped playing shortly after dodh, just couldn't do it anymore. I heard spy took the reigns then retired and got with a guildy irl. Candydare took over, and led untill disband. I also heard of some merge with pande arrangement.

candy was a sweet cleric

and yea once defiant was tainted i think the quality started moving to pdm

pdm had some great people but id have liked to see defiant last longer

i told them not to take any of the hate apps , they told me to stfu , guess i was right.....