Etiquette of rolling on item you already have?

[Reptak]

I've wondered about this often, seldom seen it discussed, and it hasn't really come up yet, but I would like to know ahead of time. Do you think it is ok to roll on an item you already have under these circumstances:


Pickup group
Droppable item
Lore or not lore
Big ticket item [~10k +]


A good example would a fungi tunic or SoS. Logistics aside of being able to loot it, do you think it is cool to to /ran on it? Obviously among friends, this issue is moot.

Common sense would tell me in a PUG, it would be fine. Something just smells a little wrong. Big ticket items are commonly sold for pp which would allow you to get things you need so it seems to me all should be able to /ran.

Just curious what the general consensus is. Not trying to be greedy here, and in general it seems a little unfair when one 1 party member gets a windfall (would be nice in a PUG to try and sell quick and split pp), but I would think it more fair that all are allowed to roll.

[falkun]

Assuming you are with the same 6 people all night, the first drop is /random between the 6, then start getting each person a piece of loot until all have one, then start over again. If you had one from a previous visit to the camp (read: with different members), then I'd say its fair game for all 6 for you to try to obtain a 2nd of said item. Where it gets into the grey area is when loot dropped for 6 people and one person won it, then 1 or more persons were replaced, but some original members still remain and another piece of loot drops. Do the other original members that didn't win loot have priority over the new guys? (I don't have that answer, and I'm asking rhetorically)

TL;DR: Greed + Round Robin.

[pickled_heretic]

Greed it all, unless there's a predetermined arrangement (such as in a guild or friends). I think round robin is fine too - this does NOT apply to bringing something that you got before the group formed. Selling and splitting the money would be ideal but it's not practical.

NBG only on crap you wouldn't bother selling.

[Atmas]

Assuming you are with the same 6 people all night, the first drop is /random between the 6, then start getting each person a piece of loot until all have one, then start over again. If you had one from a previous visit to the camp (read: with different members), then I'd say its fair game for all 6 for you to try to obtain a 2nd of said item.

I agree for all this.

As far as new members coming into a group they should have their equal chance to win loot from the point they came in. Other people who were there before may not have won loot but they had the chance. The grey area for me is what happens with people who have won an item already are still in the group when new members have joined.

[pickled_heretic]

that's why greed on everything is the simplest, and my preferred method. shit sucks to have someone win 2 gebs in a row. that's life. it will happen to you one day too.

[Snaggles]

Greed rolling is the only capitalistic way of doing loot because it doesn't penalize the fortunate. Raiding is the only exception of course.

For the record I've always been a horrible roller and dirt poor. Still, better to lose an item due to rolling than justification.

Note: I think round robin is fun amongst friends but since all items are valued differently it's not perfect for strangers. Same reason a cash based economy works better than bartering.

[DoucLangur]

"Consensus" on this server if any could be named would be "greed greed greed".

That aside, I try to persuade groups to do the following:

NBG on spells (arguable, I just like it that way - if people don't wanna go along with it, I'll skip that) and if wanted, melees get exclusive rolls on non claimable spells instead.

In general: Roll on every valuable drop you like. If you win something, you're out until everyone got something (basically round robin). However. If you wanna roll on a better item - do so, and if you win, hand your old win down to the group for another roll.
-> In other words: Common sense!

Now for what I haven't tried yet:
It gets tricky when replacements come in. I would never deny a new joiner to roll on anything from the moment they join. So what to do with people that were in the group before?

In this case I would say "everything resets". BUT - among previous group members, previous winners could roll again and in case of a win give their win to the second highest roller who was already in group before.

Of course that means giving up your "turn". So it would be decent if the person that got your win would roll for you until you get some (lesser) win in return.

Not sure I made much sense, I hope I got my idea across :)

The good thing is - the common sense part (first points) is easy to realize in groups. And the "I win my 2nd hiero cloak, but I give my win to you" thing is something I can do in private with someone. If the group would object to me letting someone else loot, I can always give that person the item I have, and loot myself.

Cheers,

Slozem (shit luck on dice, never won an item beyond 12k yet, and lost JBB with 5(!) out of 6 dice rolling for me)

[Slave]

I would say that the general server consensus on this is that Greed is the only way of being completely fair at all times. If ANYone wants to roll on a drop, they can.

[mwatt]

Personally, I think need before greed seems more in keeping with the original spirit of Everquest and the way it went down long ago.

One thing I do agree on is that if this is discussed and accepted up front, then anything is ok.

[pickled_heretic]

NBG is bullshit on items that are worth 50k. people exploit the shit out of that. They bank it or won't use it anyway, claim need on it, and then you see them auction that shit in the EC Tunnels an hour later. Greed everything, it's the only fair way.

[Akim]

Greed everything, it's the only fair way.

[Wotsirb401]

Alpha on gems, make sure you know the selling value of each gem so you arent giving one guy a gem that sells for 36pp and another guy a blue diamond or something stupid.

Obviously if this is a guild group or group of friends use NBG

PUG should always be Greed, if someone has a heiro cloak and another one drops and they happen to win the roll. Give them the amount of time on the corpse to get a guildie or friend down to crypt or wherever you are to hold the 2nd one. If they are unable to accomplish this.. give to 2nd highest roll.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Mostly agree with previous post.. alpha on gems or items that are gonna npc for a significant amount of plat.

But if its an item not worth a fortune.. but still a bit valuable.. i can see giving to a person in need.

I also see the point of a fungi tunic being free rolled for everybody..

I guess im somewhere inbetween the NBG and FFA argument... guess it just depends on how rare / valuable / sellable an item is...

like i think it would be pretty douchey to loot a no trade item just to sell a MQ

[Vondra]

In general if you're in Sebilis or something, you can expect everyone in the group to /rand on every thing of value that drops. If they win something, they'll still continue rolling too. If you join a group and no loot rules are discussed, you can expect that this is the way it's going to go down.


Sometimes groups will agree that once someone wins something of value, they stop rolling until the others get stuff, this is fine too. It isn't expected though and if you want that system, say so early on. People are usually fine with it though.

At any rate, NBG is basically dead in PuGs (on anything of much real value, anyway).

[MrSparkle001]

Yep, refer to my sig.

[mwatt]

NBG is bullshit on items that are worth 50k. people exploit the shit out of that. They bank it or won't use it anyway, claim need on it, and then you see them auction that shit in the EC Tunnels an hour later. Greed everything, it's the only fair way.

Sure you get the occasional doosh who sometimes gets caught, sometimes doesn't. On the other hand you frequently end up with people who can't even use an item getting it and someone for whom it is important their class, possibly even class-defining (e.g. some spells) NOT getting it. I would call that unfair as well... in fact you are actually LEGISLATING unfairness with your policy because it is actually guaranteed to happen and going to happen more often than the dooshy one. Unless todays gamers are in general more dooshy than gamers of yesteryear, which I suppose could be argued.

[pickled_heretic]

Sure you get the occasional doosh who sometimes gets caught, sometimes doesn't. On the other hand you frequently end up with people who can't even use an item getting it and someone for whom it is important their class, possibly even class-defining (e.g. some spells) NOT getting it. I would call that unfair as well...

How is it not fair? You have a square shot at anything that drops, and you can sell it. That's as fair as it gets. Then you can buy your class defining spell / item or trade for it with someone else's. Restricting the flow of wealth based on what class you are and what drops at the camp you're at, or being forced to trust people who you don't know to be honest about telling they actually need is not fair.

[Diggles]

I need the plat!

[Splorf22]

The reality is everyone needs 50k+. Either you can use the item directly, you can buy something awesome with it, or you can make a twink, or whatever. Generally speaking my threshold at 60 is 5-10k for need, which covers really 99% of the items in the game.

My biggest problem with Kunark is how Verant decided to make 3-4 items (NoS, Fungi, Hiero Cloak) that were best in slot for literally everyone and put them on rare-drop rare-spawn mobs.

[Diggles]

I need the plat!

[EnnoiaII]

I've wondered about this often, seldom seen it discussed, and it hasn't really come up yet, but I would like to know ahead of time. Do you think it is ok to roll on an item you already have under these circumstances:


Pickup group
Droppable item
Lore or not lore
Big ticket item [~10k +]


A good example would a fungi tunic or SoS. Logistics aside of being able to loot it, do you think it is cool to to /ran on it? Obviously among friends, this issue is moot.

Common sense would tell me in a PUG, it would be fine. Something just smells a little wrong. Big ticket items are commonly sold for pp which would allow you to get things you need so it seems to me all should be able to /ran.

Just curious what the general consensus is. Not trying to be greedy here, and in general it seems a little unfair when one 1 party member gets a windfall (would be nice in a PUG to try and sell quick and split pp), but I would think it more fair that all are allowed to roll.

On live I would only ever setup/join FFA groups unless I knew we were going to be at a place for several hours (like Bastion of Thunder) and there were multiple chances for everyone to get something, anyway. If something dropped that I was going to sell that I could tell someone in the group was actually going to use and they really wanted it and weren't being a dickbag about other people wanted it normally the others wouldn't roll on it (it was a pain in the ass to find a decent tank on Brell...I can probably name all of them right now if I had to), but normally I just ended up with more money.

[Flunklesnarkin]

On live I would only ever setup/join FFA groups unless I knew we were going to be at a place for several hours (like Bastion of Thunder) and there were multiple chances for everyone to get something, anyway. If something dropped that I was going to sell that I could tell someone in the group was actually going to use and they really wanted it and weren't being a dickbag about other people wanted it normally the others wouldn't roll on it (it was a pain in the ass to find a decent tank on Brell...I can probably name all of them right now if I had to), but normally I just ended up with more money.

I'm the same way... I also try to wait for everybody else to roll and if the person i think deserves to win the roll doesn't win

ill try to roll then toss to the person if i win

[Seaweedpimp]

Few things i would like to add. Coming from a person who used to have to start thier own groups because of the class they chose. This would be my rules in your average pickup, even half filled with guildies.

Spells are NBG, aslong as you can actually use it. But this is more or less decided by the group. For instance you have a level 55 shaman in your crypt group, and a torpor drops off emp. If you cant use it , or for a long time on a valuable spell like this then i would like to treat it like a normal item drop, with whatever value. 10k 20k 30k, whatever.

Any gem is alpha unless its a jacinth, diamond, blue diamond or black sapphire. Those will also be rolled upon like they were a piece of equipment.

I like to hoarde the items till the end, then when the group restarts with new players or breaks, you can all roll then and go down the list of your choice of drop in order.

Or, just roll when shit drops each time and if you win that item you cant get a duplicate.

Say I won a diamond off a scarab. Our first drop of the night. I can roll on other gems but i cant roll on the diamond. Some groups like this idea more.

[Seaweedpimp]

If op means if the char has that item before he gets in the group, and the same item drops hell yeah he has a right to it.

[Flunklesnarkin]

I usually don't care what the loot rules are as long as they are consistent and the group knows up front what they are.

oh and people aren't overly greedy lol

[Reptak]

If op means if the char has that item before he gets in the group, and the same item drops hell yeah he has a right to it.

Yes. That's what I meant. It seems there is a strong consensus on this forum and I imagine it is most likely typical of the server too. I also appreciated people's views on other aspects of loot in PUGs, even if they were a little different than my original question.

Cheers.