Instill Doubt (Intimidation)

[Hakurou]

There currently are several issues with this skill, first of all the minor ones. Instill doubt (Intimidation) should raise your skill by using it, as long as you have a target other than yourself, no matter what it is, how it cons, how far away or what position you were in (sitting or FD). The skill always rose very slowly so you would hit the button all the time whenever you traveled. On P99 it only rises when you're in melee combat with a con blue mob or higher, which is a real pain as you can't force to make it fail by using a special attack (see below).

The second and bigger issue is that Instill doubt doesn't work at all like it used to on live, it's actually quite a lot better here and probably is unbalanced in PvP situations.

How I see it currently work on P99:
Instill Doubt does a skill check instantly after hitting the key when in range of a mob. If the skill check is a success you do a regular resist check against fear and that's it. Basically ID is an instant cast fear that will nearly always work once you hit a certain skill level. A get out of jail free card you can use to just fear away a mob, bandage up and finish it, think about that in PvP.

How it used to work:
I need to do a bit of explaining to get the full scope of Instill Doubt down here. There are three conditions that need to be met for ID to work after the skill check.

Condition 1) First of all ID is a 'kick', while the skill button doesn't share the same timer as any monk special attack or backstab, if one of those skills aren't usable by the time the ID animation comes to an end (yes the ID kick is performed roughly 5 seconds after you hit the button, at the end of the animation) it will fail, as your kick timer is down you can't perform the ID kick. ID will also put your kicks / backstab into recycle mode.

Condition 2) The ID kick must hit for at least 1 point of damage, if it misses, gets dodged, parried, blocked, riposted or plain can't do damage because of non magical boots it fails.

Condition 3) This is the fear resist check. Needless to say if fear is resisted it fails.

Reference:
http://web.archive.org/web/20011109052343/http://monkly-business.com/articles2.asp?ArticleNum=76

[Hakurou]

Bump, this skill isn't working at all like it should be.

[Nubben]

I was going to make a topic about this, but I'm glad I decided to search first. This post has all the same information I was going to post, plus a better reference than my own. In any case, I'd like to add that Hakurou's post is 100% accurate, and I'll still add my own reference although the one in the OP is probably better.

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2851

[Happyfeet]

Yes, that's exactly right. It's not working properly. You nailed it though, I just never bothered to post it.

[Tarathiel]

oOoOOOo

[Sajan]

Nailed it indeed.

[dbouya]

bump, I still don't think instill doubt works like it did back in classic.. it's way too effective.

[Arteker]

u forgot iD effect is cancelled when u sit or fd .or should.

[nilbog]

This was an old thread; unlocked due to age.

Bump.

[Kender]

it was never as useful on live as it is here. that instant effect makes it much easier to strafe away, return and hit button.

also, i dont believe on live the fear had a snare effect like it does here. the mobs would run off at full speed. on here there is a noticable difference in run speed

[Theturtlehermit]

the OP is correct. I MAINED a rogue on live for YEARS during the vanilla/kunark/velious era. Instill doubt had to have kick/bash/backstab timers up 5 seconds after you pushed the button (and the animation ended) , if kicked was evaded somehow no fear. Then the fear gets checked against fear resist... and even at 150 skill IT STILL FAILED TO EVEN TRY TO KICK 90% of the time. This makes solo in PVE for melee with ID to have a %1000 easier time. ITS BULLSHIT BALANCE!!! I WANT CLASSIC BALANCE!

Basically, Instill Doubt was 99% worthless in Classic. P99 has given those classes with ID an extra ability that isnt Classic and makes the game much easier for those classes. Bullshit Classic experience. And not to mention Overpowered.

Even if you had max skill for the Era in Instill Doubt, the multiple factors of it not even procing a kick at the end of the animation, the evade of the kick, and the fear resist meant that against dark blue trash mobs, when you pushed the Instill Doubt button , there was only like a 5% chance of the fear actually landing AT MAX SKILL.
Here on P1999 it seems like a 90-100% success rate at like lvl 20 lol

[Theturtlehermit]

"2.30. What does Instill Doubt do?

Instill doubt causes the rogue to go through several combat animations, and on success, will attempt a kick, which if successful will send the enemy running a la the fear effect. It can not be relied on as an escape ability, because success is fairly rare. Also be very cautious in areas where trains start easily (e.g. Guk, Solusek B). If the skill does happen to work while fighting indoors, the creature may run off and come back with the entire zone which won't make you or your group very happy. On the other hand, it is useful as an auxiliary fearing method when fighting out of doors."
http://teir-dal.tripod.com/id47.html
http://www.roath.demon.co.uk/Instill.htm

[nilbog]

Instill Doubt was changed in a March patch. Is this still an issue?

[Theturtlehermit]

im not familiar with the change in march

[Pezy]

No, not an issue. The success rate may still be a bit higher than it was on live while at lower levels, but it's still just as awful as I remember once 40+.

[Theturtlehermit]

oh i see. well thats better. I am remembering times when i first started like a year or two ago.

[Nirgon]

Basically, Instill Doubt was 99% worthless in Classic.


yessir

[Scrubosaur]

I used ID quite a bit while leveling my bard. The last time that I remember using it was fear kiting around KC in my low to mid 40's. The success rate was good enough that I decided to take ae fear song off my play list and instead use ID for the fear effect so that I could twist regen / haste / snare.

[Zliz]

A bit old thread, but I mained a Rogue from 2000-2002. When I was bored, probably around 2001/2002, I would stand behind Shady in EC, do ID until it fired, then melee him down. Shady is level 45 and I was level 60. I can't remember how it worked "in the wild" (while fighting mobs), but it would certainly land on Shady. A very very rough memory tells me I maybe had to ID 3-5 times typically until it would attempt to land on Shady.

So, it wasn't 99% worthless for sure.

[Daldaen]

A bit old thread, but I mained a Rogue from 2000-2002. When I was bored, probably around 2001/2002, I would stand behind Shady in EC, do ID until it fired, then melee him down. Shady is level 45 and I was level 60. I can't remember how it worked "in the wild" (while fighting mobs), but it would certainly land on Shady. A very very rough memory tells me I maybe had to ID 3-5 times typically until it would attempt to land on Shady.

So, it wasn't 99% worthless for sure.

Agreed. Version we have that allows you to utilize it for leveling is far from classic.

It's success rate was pretty poor and its duration quite short.

I remember there was only one bard trainer in Freeport that would let you train this as a bard. So it was neat in that it was a rareish skill to have. But far from practical.

[Velerin]

I don't think it was quite as good as it was here but it was definitely a reasonable method to solo back in the day. I used it + SBDs for snare on my rogue to solo random mobs in FM. The key was that your backstab ability had to be unused when the kick went off (about 5 secs after you pressed it) or it would autofail. Think a lot of people didn't know that and assumed it was useless.

[Frudrura]

I am not sure this is as useful as people are saying... with 200 Intimidation skill, I can go maybe 3 consecutive seafuries start to finish without the skill working one time. Maybe I am missing something or perhaps whether the fear casts at all (whether it get resisted or not) is a function of the mobs level you are fighting compared to your level?

/rez

*Forgot to mention, it seems like when I do any type of instant clicky (jboots, monk epic) after hitting the Intimidation button and before it either says "Not scaring anyone" or a fear gets cast, it won't say anything. It seems to cancel the intimidation more or less, of course the animation continues, but I haven't seen it fear and it doesn't say anything after that.

[Elroz]

found this in logs from AK server if it's worth anything here, shows a successful fear check proc being resisted :

[Fri Apr 12 19:17:40 2013] You have become better at Intimidation! (64)
[Fri Apr 12 19:17:40 2013] Zasarab was hit by non-melee for 9 points of damage.
[Fri Apr 12 19:17:40 2013] You kick Zasarab for 9 points of damage.
[Fri Apr 12 19:17:40 2013] Your target resisted the Fear spell.