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View Full Version : Making Half-Elf Bard...startings stats?


JayFiveAlive
04-13-2010, 06:50 PM
I got a friend to join me in experience the awesomeness of P99, so I am making a half-elf Bard to play with him...

I know starting stats don't matter much, but I want to be the best of the best! Old school EQ.Castersrealm recommends putting 20 points into STR and 5 points into DEX as a Half-Elf. Is that indeed the route I should take? What do you all think?


Thanks! Can't wait for the server to come back up!

MrBeerBelly
04-13-2010, 08:06 PM
I got a friend to join me in experience the awesomeness of P99, so I am making a half-elf Bard to play with him...

I know starting stats don't matter much, but I want to be the best of the best! Old school EQ.Castersrealm recommends putting 20 points into STR and 5 points into DEX as a Half-Elf. Is that indeed the route I should take? What do you all think?


Thanks! Can't wait for the server to come back up!

That probably isn't the route you should take. Also starting stats were very important in classic, as there really aren't uber items readably available to boost your stats.

Bones
04-13-2010, 08:09 PM
I would put it into DEX and CHA. As a bard, you really wont be using the STR that much, except maybe to hold a buncha crap.

JayFiveAlive
04-13-2010, 08:16 PM
So maybe split between DEX and CHA? 15 15?

PearlJammzz
04-13-2010, 08:33 PM
Just make sure that no important stat is below the 75 or whatever that makes a big jump into gimp status.

Minch/FureeZeb
04-13-2010, 09:00 PM
8 sta 11 dex 11 cha

JayFiveAlive
04-13-2010, 10:17 PM
Any of you have a 50 Bard? 8 STR 11 DEX and 11 CHA sounds pretty tempting :D

Zilo
04-13-2010, 10:25 PM
i was a DumbF**K and put most of my points into AGI..........ya..............as a half-elf ranger............it was like 20 to agi and like 5str 5dex...........yaaaaaaaaaaaa

Dangergirl
04-14-2010, 12:21 AM
Your stats should focus towards how you think you will play your bard.

Charisma is going to allow you to lull, mezz and charm better - to me the biggest strengths of a bard.

Dexterity is going to allow you to twist tunes better (I think). Some bards get off on having 3 songs going at once. Reduces bard song fizzles (song ends abruptly). (I am not 100% sure on this info but have heard it from many sources)

Strength is going to let you hit in mele a bit harder and carry a few more items. Bards do wear heavy plate armor. Bards do not get double attack so their mele is not such a strength. But if u love to mele...

Stamina is going to give you + HP. I think wars get 5 hp per each stamina at lvl 50, so mebe bards get 4 per. If you think you might do alot of lull pulling this might be a consideration.

In the end you can always carry extra gear to make you better one way or another. +80 hp and + 55 hp finger ring or 7 cha 5 dex finger ring x 2 are more than your starting stats in just 2 slots so in the end: do not lose too much sleep over it.

Eastwood
04-14-2010, 12:28 AM
Hmm my thoughts..., not a pro here but I do play a half elf and know that gear weighs a ton when your a noob, bronze is heavy, str gear doesnt seem to come till later unless you have money early on.

That's not a great reason to go str but it is always a useful stat IMO.

Dex affecting song twisting? I highly doubt that. I have no way to prove it, but I think that's more of a frame rate and casting delay thing, which I believe is a fixed rate. And a bard should probably avoid proccing weapons when possible, you dont want agro, not saying I would turn away a SSoY until I could get into Kunark, hopefully by then the warriors are holding agro a lot better than you with their double attacks and slams/kicks, im sure they will be.

Agi, dont plan on getting hit. Defense skills are minimal as a bard.

Stamina, that sounds useful, altho maybe not a great return on points invested, 4hp per stam?

Charisma sounds like a good one of the bunch, since you probably want to wear more melee oriented ac/str/stam gear for survivability, so charisma coming out of your natural stats might be a good idea.

Gellineau
04-14-2010, 01:17 AM
Dex -> twisting....if when creating character and check Dex it says affects your missed notes....this is when you start a song - miss a note -> must try to start again (this can happen many times) -> if wish to keep three songs going u can absorb miss start or two but if u are shooting for 4 you don't want to miss notes (not enough time between stopping first and getting 4th off before restarting first again).

I like 11 x 2, Sta 8 because from all my reading on this spare time Sta is apparently one of hardest attributes to raise....I plan on pulling n Cc so the charisma is also a boon - thank you for that breakdown Minch.

nalkin
04-14-2010, 01:57 AM
I've been wondering about this sort of thing myself, and I have noticed all the "go stam" advice and what not. But whats the point of going 8 stam? Lets round up and say a 50 bard gets 5hp per stam point, thats a whopping 40hp. That is less than 1 hit from a creature. Lets suppose you put all 25 points into stam at start which gives +125hp. That is like 1 attack round maybe. Am I missing something?

The argument for casters makes even less sense for me because you gain like 1-2hp per stam point at 50. So I mean when a creature can hit me for 200+ damage why do I care if I have like 20 more hp?

Elendae
04-14-2010, 02:45 AM
the argument goes that with shammy buffs + gear STA is the hardest stat to cap. 5 of any stat doesn't really do a whole lot, but the idea is to waste as little of a shammy's buff as possible. I guess, if that makes any sense.

mitic
04-14-2010, 03:15 AM
i was tempted to go for cha but then i went for dex when i created my bard.

highend ull need dex and cha for songs (as mentioned in above posts) since u wont be considered as a tank nor as a real dps

low and midlvl u can actually tank stuff in groups, it depends where your focus is at..raiding or casual grouping

Autum
04-14-2010, 03:15 AM
I used to play a bard on live back in 2001-2003 and came to the conclusion that stamina was the way to go. Although I initially put points into charisma and such when I created the character, once I got high level I never really gave much value to it. I don't recall ever being passed 150 or 160 charisma fully geared and don't remember ever having an issue with charm/mez etc.

I geared my bard almost identically to how I would gear a warrior (as did all the bards in my guild at the time) with the thought that a dead bard sings no songs.

Although that extra 10 stamina or whatever it comes out to be will not add that many HP in the end, if you follow a general trend of going for stamina/HP and AC there will be a huge difference with your overall finished product.

Even if you're not tanking as a bard, in most group and raid situations whenever there's an add, or five or six, the bard is usually the one that gets stuck with the aggro at first b/c of your songs. Having the HP and AC will keep you alive so that you can mez/charm/do whatever it is you're doing. No matter how much charisma you have, you cannot mez anything if you're dead or your songs keep getting interrupted.

Anyway, I've written enough. That's the strategy that worked for me, make of it what you will.

-Autum

Gwence
04-14-2010, 04:26 AM
k playing a bard is easy, put all your entry stats into WIS, next find a tailor and get a full set of FINE SILK, dont wear plate it is BUGGED and you wont be able to attack anything EVER.

In addition, NEVER NEVER use an instrument. The client will read it as an error in the coding and your weapons will be DELETED and then all your songs will be deleted as well!

Basically just attack stuff with hand to hand when possible. And ALWAYS PLAY Jax's Jig O'Vigor. Nothing else, just that song, and maybe the AE Fear but only when you have multiple mobs in camp for CC purposes.

That's what I do

guineapig
04-14-2010, 07:26 AM
I went full stamina on my half-elf bard and put the remaining points into dex. Charisma is extremely easy to raise and star ruby jewelry adds cha/dex.

If you are in a group situation dex will not help you with twisting songs unless you are getting lots of aggro. If you are getting lots of aggro it's probably due to your weapons procing... maybe from that high dex? Hmmm.

In any case stamina keeps you alive longer and is the hardest stat to raise in the game. If you are going to be pulling in dungeons you will want enough hitpoints to make it back to camp. Go stamina.

Gwence
04-14-2010, 07:58 AM
If you like to melee as a bard you should reroll as a ranger or a rogue, bards have instruments for a reason and in just about every scenario conceivable instruments are > melee.

Until epic comes out at least.

mrgoochio
04-14-2010, 08:29 AM
do instrument modifiers even work correctly yet?

Gwence
04-14-2010, 08:35 AM
Yea string and percussion do.

If wind ever got fixed that would be pretty awesome. Horn songs are pretty lame regardless.

Jete
04-14-2010, 08:48 AM
Anyways, I am too lazy to read back, but whoever said it depends on how you plan to play your bard hit it right on. If you suck at pulling, don't wanna melee, cant charm / cc worth a darn... go with dex so you can be a mana song bot for a cleric who knows how to push the CHeal button.

Str if you wanna be a melee bard.. as Gwence said before...

Cha if you wanna charm / mez better... but honestly I don't think cha affects mez but that's my opinion.

Int if you plan on charming for a long time without access to a manastone.

Now with all that said, my personal advice is go all cha, and put the rest in dex. Once you wear decent gear str doesn't even matter, during raids and groups more often than not you will have an instrument out. Good bards will be assist pulling / charming / cc during raids and groups. Bad bards will sing one song and /afk out... for that you don't even need to spend your stats, but I digest-

Omnimorph
04-14-2010, 10:14 AM
Bad bards will sing one song and /afk out... for that you don't even need to spend your stats, but I digest-

It's good to digest from time to time, especially after a meal!!

Starting stats on a bard, i'd probably go with some cha, then sta like people say. Can't go wrong with sta.

these people saying spend 11,11, 8 ... don't you people try and get your stats to look neat by ending with a 0 or a 5? like 80, 85 etc. that's what i always do :p

JayFiveAlive
04-14-2010, 10:32 AM
Great discussion guys, thanks a lot for all the input! Sounds like a few others were wondering as well :)

Sounds like I will probably be putting most points into Cha, then dex and possibly some in Sta.. maybe 15 cha, 8 dex and 7 sta.


Love all the input, keep it coming :)

Omnimorph
04-14-2010, 10:42 AM
Love all the input, keep it coming :)

Have you tried making a realistic gear plan? It's a pretty good basis to work on, can switch in items as you go later on. ie. base it on having full lambent, electrum rings etc, tally up the stats you'll have, and see what your totals are, then you can see which stat you should ideally put it in.

Would also occupy some time from now til the servers are up :cool:

firesyde424
04-14-2010, 12:53 PM
**DISCLAIMER** I did not play a bard until luclin came out. Playing a bard on this server through the original world has been a very different and in many ways, harder experience. Almost to the point of requiring that I relearn how to play the entire class. Having said that, it's very possible that the information below is based on experiences that aren't relevant to the "classic" world because many of the bard's defining abilities that I experienced, weren't available then. ***DISCLAIMER***

After playing a bard for the better part of 5 years, one thing is clear. Bards are NOT a DPS class. Yes, they can do damage in a per second fashion, but the end result is laughable compared to almost any other class. The strength of the bard class is its ability to "cast" while moving, twisting multiple song effects, CC, overhaste, and mana regen that stacks with spell regen. Not to mention harmony songs and of course, nobody does resists or speed like a bard can.

Even though bards are "generalists," they almost always end up as CC or pullers. In general, dex and cha are your friends. These stats reduce the "fizzle" rate of your songs, allowing you to twist more consistently. Considering that starting stats are more important in the classic world, I'd suggest maxing dex and putting the rest into charisma.

Again, as a bard, you are not the Tasmanian Devil of DPS, you never will be. Yes, I know bards can stack chants, yes I know they can charm other mobs, yes I know (insert generic bard DPS rant here). It doesn't matter. Bards just don't have the abilities or damage bonuses of other classes and weren't meant to in the first place. If you want an argument that you have a real shot of winning, get into a fight with a monk about who's the better pulling class. ;)

JayFiveAlive
04-14-2010, 01:19 PM
Have you tried making a realistic gear plan? It's a pretty good basis to work on, can switch in items as you go later on. ie. base it on having full lambent, electrum rings etc, tally up the stats you'll have, and see what your totals are, then you can see which stat you should ideally put it in.

Would also occupy some time from now til the servers are up :cool:

Believe me that is an awesome idea, but uhh.. I have no idea how to do that. Is there an easy builder that allows me to do that ala Thottbot style?

astuce999
04-14-2010, 02:28 PM
**DISCLAIMER** I did not play a bard until luclin came out. Playing a bard on this server through the original world has been a very different and in many ways, harder experience. Almost to the point of requiring that I relearn how to play the entire class. Having said that, it's very possible that the information below is based on experiences that aren't relevant to the "classic" world because many of the bard's defining abilities that I experienced, weren't available then. ***DISCLAIMER***

After playing a bard for the better part of 5 years, one thing is clear. Bards are NOT a DPS class. Yes, they can do damage in a per second fashion, but the end result is laughable compared to almost any other class. The strength of the bard class is its ability to "cast" while moving, twisting multiple song effects, CC, overhaste, and mana regen that stacks with spell regen. Not to mention harmony songs and of course, nobody does resists or speed like a bard can.

Even though bards are "generalists," they almost always end up as CC or pullers. In general, dex and cha are your friends. These stats reduce the "fizzle" rate of your songs, allowing you to twist more consistently. Considering that starting stats are more important in the classic world, I'd suggest maxing dex and putting the rest into charisma.

Again, as a bard, you are not the Tasmanian Devil of DPS, you never will be. Yes, I know bards can stack chants, yes I know they can charm other mobs, yes I know (insert generic bard DPS rant here). It doesn't matter. Bards just don't have the abilities or damage bonuses of other classes and weren't meant to in the first place. If you want an argument that you have a real shot of winning, get into a fight with a monk about who's the better pulling class. ;)

I played a bard for 7 years on live, and I agree with everything Firesyde said.

Question for Jete Veux, does manastone give mana back to the bard on this server? It never did on live. The only thing that ever gave mana back to the bard on live was divine rez and flowing thought items.

cheers,

Astuce Subterfuge

Excision Rottun
04-14-2010, 02:38 PM
I played a bard for 8 years.

Go STA and DEX imo....for reasons stated above.

Skope
04-14-2010, 02:45 PM
I went full stamina on my half-elf bard and put the remaining points into dex. Charisma is extremely easy to raise and star ruby jewelry adds cha/dex.

If you are in a group situation dex will not help you with twisting songs unless you are getting lots of aggro. If you are getting lots of aggro it's probably due to your weapons procing... maybe from that high dex? Hmmm.

In any case stamina keeps you alive longer and is the hardest stat to raise in the game. If you are going to be pulling in dungeons you will want enough hitpoints to make it back to camp. Go stamina.

Charisma is also noted for being one of the most difficult stats to max out (minus shammy buffage), but in the long run, for all classes, int included, stamina is your safest bet.

Granted, with int classes you'll gain more with +hp items than you will with +sta, but they both help ;)

mreynert
04-14-2010, 03:14 PM
Cha if you wanna charm / mez better... but honestly I don't think cha affects mez but that's my opinion.


I've noticed a strong difference in the number of resists on mez with different levels of charisma, mostly only for higher level mobs though. From personal experience buffing my own cha up to 160ish with cha gear made mezzing a bit easier in camps higher level than my bard, and with a cha buff on top of that putting me near 200 it became laughably easy. I was CCing and pulling lord in lguk at 37-38. Cha also has a HUGE effect on pulling, if a lull resists there is a secondary check done to see if the mob will aggro and this check is Cha based. Got 17 resists in a row trying to break lord room in lguk with 200+ cha and not one aggro whereas if you were say below 100 you'd aggro almost every resist.

As to the rest of the comments here, agree with most of them. Str is negligible and without double attack your melee is a dot at best, if you want to do damage with melee and I use the term "damage" loosely you'd want to be proccing to do it...but this presents aggro issues and is only good when you have a tank who can hold off of you, or are yourself bard tanking (which I did for the vast majority of my 40s due to lack of tanks...have even tanked raids though can't stand up to incredibly high damage mobs and we lack the efficiency of real tank CH chain healing)

As to STA...I disagree on this a little bit...bard hp to sta gain is pitiful, I'm trying to remember the conversion rate from in game, but at 48 it's not that much from personal experience. I am however, in no way stating that you should ignore sta...I put points into it myself at character creation and it's saved me a few times with that little bit. For the most part though you should either be capable of avoiding damage or it'll be so much damage the pittance you get from sta will likely not save you...but it can and it is to be considered. I have purpled about 5 times where I would have died without those bonus sta points.

Dex is helpful, reduces number of missed notes and increases amount you will proc. The exact effect on missed notes I've not noticed, proccing can be good or bad, depends on how you want to play and what your role is at the time. Many will argue against proccing weapons, and on raids you mostly have an instrument out anyway...unless fighting trash or for some godforsaken reason are tanking, but if you have a good tank proccing weapons shouldn't be an issue unless you picked bad ones.

My 2 copper on the matter.

*edit* And one more thing to note, on raids you will likely never mez either as the current bard mez caps out at lvl 46 mobs. May occasionally charm something for a quick CC, but this is not normal.

mreynert
04-14-2010, 03:18 PM
If you want an argument that you have a real shot of winning, get into a fight with a monk about who's the better pulling class. ;)

Unfortunately even if this is the case you may end up stuck in camp while the monk pulls because the cleric yells at you if the mana cables start to lose slack.

mitic
04-14-2010, 03:31 PM
Unfortunately even if this is the case you may end up stuck in camp while the monk pulls because the cleric yells at you if the mana cables start to lose slack.

if the bard is hasting the group, using MR/FR/PR-songs vs caster mobs, slowing and doting the mobs during the fight, clerics wont realy need him as mana battery ;) (if the group has enough dps, that is)

mreynert
04-14-2010, 03:34 PM
if the bard is hasting the group, using MR/FR/PR-songs vs caster mobs, slowing and doting the mobs during the fight, clerics wont realy need him as mana battery ;) (if the group has enough dps, that is)

Oh no no no...that only means the pulling isn't good enough...cleric still has mana, expand the borders!

firesyde424
04-15-2010, 03:31 PM
Unfortunately even if this is the case you may end up stuck in camp while the monk pulls because the cleric yells at you if the mana cables start to lose slack.

Well, there is that. But you won't need to worry about it till level 32. I seem to remember the range of the group regen songs being very small until the AoE HP/Mana regen songs came out. You could take a few steps out from the group to where the mob was being tanked and the cleric would complain because he wasn't getting mana song any more.

Dangergirl
04-15-2010, 04:35 PM
Monk and bard in grp monk will always end up pulling casue bard + mana for grp heals slows and dps will flow the exp faster that way.

Was just in a sol b grp where monk was new to the zone, bard lull split the camps then monk took over.

taamas
04-16-2010, 05:59 PM
I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents, and offer what little knowledge I remember from my Bard days.

I played a raiding Bard from Kunark to PoP. I stopped midway through PoP because EQ got stupid and boring, but I digress. I was pretty much the only Bard in our guild for that span of time, believe it or not. So, I had my work cut out for me every raid night. Honestly, I don't remember what I put my starting points into. Hell, I don't even remember where I leveled besides kiting hill giants in Frontier Mountains and grouping in Karnor's Castle lol. Anyways, I'm pretty sure I didn't put any points into CHA, nor did I gear for it at all (besides CHA bonuses on Bard set gear of course). For the amount of times I played CC for exp groups, I don't feel it affected mezzing in the slightest. I'd get occasional resists, but nothing that ever wiped the group, much less killed a single person. I didn't do much charming though, so CHA never really mattered to me.

What I have a feeling I dumped my creation points into (and what I geared for) was STR/STA/DEX. I had some grand notion back then that I was *actual* melee DPS lol, hence the STR. I was always in the thick of it with melee, and consequently the Bard Epic was the best thing to ever happen to that character. :) I did have lots of DEX though, and that probably contributed to my playstyle the best. I prided myself on keeping up 4 buff songs when I wasn't CCing. DEX will help counter song fizzles, which ruin your rotation and mess with your rhythm.

In summary, my personal view of the Bard class was to provide support utility for the group/raid, while throwing in some melee DPS. Hindsight is always 20/20, and knowing what I know now, I would dump all my points into STA/DEX if I ever rolled a Bard again. But again, that would be to complement my playstyle, which was a grouping/raiding player. If you were more of a casual/solo player, spreading out the points to incorporate CHA may be beneficial if you plan on charm soloing (which I never did).

I'm really surprised I don't have carpal tunnel though.

nalkin
04-17-2010, 01:16 AM
In another thread someone mentioned this cha gear:

platinum star ruby veil +9
(2X) electrum star ruby ring +14
platinum cat's eye neck. +9
(2X) golden cat's eye bracer. +14
crude stein +15
siryn hair hood +13

could anyone name anymore cha gear? And is there alot available in Kunark/Velious?