/target requires line of sight?

[Orruar]

For players, not corpses, /target requires line of sight. I saw a few random comments and threads about this topic elsewhere on these forums, but no definitive proof one way or the other. Does anyone have a link to a page with all previous patch notes that I could search through? I'm pretty sure that as far back as when I started raiding in Luclin, you could target players not in line of sight using /target.

[Orruar]

Does anyone have any proof that /target on a player should require line of sight? Or does anyone even remember this being the case?

[Uthgaard]

No. The reason it was disabled here wasn't because of some evidence, but because of issues with terrain. Players were pulling mobs through floors. You might remember juggs being pulled to crypt, king being pulled to bugs, etc.,

[Orruar]

No. The reason it was disabled here wasn't because of some evidence, but because of issues with terrain. Players were pulling mobs through floors. You might remember juggs being pulled to crypt, king being pulled to bugs, etc.,

Nah, I don't remember any of these things, but I wouldn't doubt they were happening. How were people agroing the mobs they were targetting? Chain cast lull until a crit resist?

[Uthgaard]

There's a problem with the physics of terrain in a lot of areas that have objects on top of ground. It's pretty dramatic around windmills and wizard spires. Haynar used to fix them, I don't know how. No one else I know does either. Unsolved mysteries are the new "client issue".

[Orruar]

There's a problem with the physics of terrain in a lot of areas that have objects on top of ground. It's pretty dramatic around windmills and wizard spires. Haynar used to fix them, I don't know how. No one else I know does either. Unsolved mysteries are the new "client issue".

I was just wondering how people were pulling mobs that they had no LoS on. And to what end? Wouldn't someone pulling juggs to crypt get completely wrecked by a rather large train?

[DoucLangur]

I do recall it being possible in Velious era to /target players and mobs without line of sight but I understand Uthgaards reasoning and prefer not being able to /target stuff - without LoS - to people exploiting the heck out of it :)

[Orruar]

Another question on this topic... Could it easily be changed to allow you to target players, but not mobs? Being able to target players without LoS is pretty important, particularly in velious with all the encounters where your clerics stay out of LoS of the main raid force.

[Uthgaard]

Yes, but ideally the actual root problem would be fixed so it could function as normal.

[Orruar]

I must have missed it. What's the root problem here?

[Orruar]

Still trying to figure out exactly what the problem here is. So let's say someone is able to aggro some juggs from crypt because they can /target them, and then chain cast lull or something else that doesn't require line of sight, but can cause aggro. If this is then causing a massive train that disrupts other players, that's a problem, but there are already rules against training. If pulling the fungi king to NG is a problem because someone else wants to camp fungi king, that's a problem, but there are already rules about doing multiple camps that solve this problem. The only unsolved "problem" I can think of is if people manage these pulls without training themselves or others, and the GMs don't want people to be able to pull long distances so easily. That's hardly a good reason to remove something as basic as being able to /target a player/mob that is out of LoS.

Is there something else I'm missing here?

[DoucLangur]

I think there are various problems, among others:
- pulling a named through all the zone, then FDing/CoHing/zoning out to clear aggro from train, then tagging the named single or with few adds
- involuntary trains, and the ensuing mayhem

[Szeth]

You rarely need to do all that crazy zoning out thing to get mobs single. You find out a path that the mob can take that doesn't have see invis. You dot it, FD, get coth'd, and then get invis. Upon standing said mob is going to walk back to you past all his buddys LIKE A BOSS solo.

[Orruar]

In another thread, Nilbog mentioned that this is actually just a bug, not intentional.

[Uthgaard]

He said it was likely, confusion happens when you all argue things in the wrong threads. But it wasn't introduced with Kanras' last update to targetting, it's existed since shortly after Kunark.

[Szeth]

Uthgaard can we get your brilliance to shine on the RotWF issue? <3

[Uthgaard]

I didn't do that epic.

[Szeth]

Are you insinuating it may be broken? All the ones you did, you defended adamantly saying that people were fucking them up on their own (likely true, average IQ around these parts is not 3 digits)

[Uthgaard]

I'm saying I didn't do that epic. They were all tested before launch, but you know the saying about inventing a better idiot.

[Szeth]

Haha, touche.

[Orruar]

He said it was likely, confusion happens when you all argue things in the wrong threads. But it wasn't introduced with Kanras' last update to targetting, it's existed since shortly after Kunark.

Can we get an actual current developer to comment on whether this is intended or not? And if it is intended, why remove this important classic mechanic? If you wanted to combat a seb training problem, you could ban the people training since that's already against the server rules.

[Uthgaard]

At this point nothing you're posting is furthering the purpose of the bug report, you're just provoking and trolling. Regardless of the reason it's in, it's not intended and it will be worked on. The bug's origin is irrelevant to you or the discussion.

[Orruar]

At this point nothing you're posting is furthering the purpose of the bug report, you're just provoking and trolling. Regardless of the reason it's in, it's not intended and it will be worked on. The bug's origin is irrelevant to you or the discussion.

You said clearly that this was intended. And now you say it isn't. That's kind of the point. You're the only one trolling around here.

[Orruar]

Something else to add that might be related to this bug. When trying to /assist someone on a mob/person who is not in LoS, /assist does not work. I assume this is because /assist does some sort of /target behind the scenes.

[DoucLangur]

Something else to add that might be related to this bug. When trying to /assist someone on a mob/person who is not in LoS, /assist does not work. I assume this is because /assist does some sort of /target behind the scenes.

Without supporting your trolling discussion, yes I second that issue:
/assist <puller> should work based on whether or not the puller is in assist range, regardless of where the target of the puller is. We used this in PoSky bridges back in the days - for group invites and corpse summons, mages would try to pop an Eye of Zomm on isle 1, and others would assist them to invite their target to the corpse summon group. But - different issue. Different bug report?

Cheers

Slozem