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View Full Version : I am here to Kvetch: Run speed and mob agro.


Teddie1056
05-02-2012, 07:14 AM
Hey devs, Gms, someone, please do something about this run speed. I aint got no proof or anything.

1. Mobs were slower off the jump without a doubt. Never ever had something run like this off me on live. Their run speed was never close to their pursuit speed. They did run faster than before, but it is broken now.

2. IIRC, if you had multiple mobs on you that agroed, they wouldn't run until there was only one left.

3. I don't think that shaman mobs would sow other mobs. I used to hunt in SolA a lot on live, and nothing ever ran so fast I couldn't keep up with it, and warrior/wizard mobs wouldn't run faster than normal.

Destan
05-02-2012, 07:45 AM
Hey devs, Gms, someone, please do something about this run speed. I aint got no proof or anything.

1. Mobs were slower off the jump without a doubt. Never ever had something run like this off me on live. Their run speed was never close to their pursuit speed. They did run faster than before, but it is broken now.

2. IIRC, if you had multiple mobs on you that agroed, they wouldn't run until there was only one left.

3. I don't think that shaman mobs would sow other mobs. I used to hunt in SolA a lot on live, and nothing ever ran so fast I couldn't keep up with it, and warrior/wizard mobs wouldn't run faster than normal.

1. Their pursuit speed is little to no different than it was on live. Run at diagonals with mouselook and they will never touch you. Not once, ever.

2. This was generally true, but not always. If you had a group of mobs in an appropriate xp range, I too remember them sticking it out until one was left. However, greens or very low cons would still run, grouped or not, when low on health.

3. Shaman NPCs always sowed their allies. The reason you don't remember it happening in SolA is because sow is an outdoor spell, and SolA is an indoor dungeon...

Extunarian
05-02-2012, 09:02 AM
1. Their pursuit speed is little to no different than it was on live. Run at diagonals with mouselook and they will never touch you. Not once, ever.


This is not what he was saying. He is talking about mob flee speed on this server being as fast as their run speed upon initial agro. I'll admit it does look pretty funny when killing a bard npc to see them take off into a dead sprint at 21% health. I don't remember them running away at top speed.

Rkahor
05-02-2012, 09:14 AM
3. Shaman NPCs always sowed their allies. The reason you don't remember it happening in SolA is because sow is an outdoor spell, and SolA is an indoor dungeon...

Was just in chardok yesterday and the sarnaks there sow each other and I think thats considered an indoor dungeon. Don't think I could use my J-boots there

Phased
05-02-2012, 09:21 AM
These threads wouldn't exist if people weren't spoiled for so long. On live you never went into a dungeon without snare. That's how rangers, druids, and wizards got invited to groups.

Mobs always SoW'd indoors.

webrunner5
05-02-2012, 09:25 AM
Its the stupid direction changes that drive me crazy. I don't ever remember them going that crazy years ago.

Egil
05-02-2012, 09:54 AM
.

2. IIRC, if you had multiple mobs on you that agroed, they wouldn't run until there was only one left.

.

This only works with mobs of the same type. If you're fighting two kodiaks the first will fight to the death. If you're fighting a kodiak and a snake the mobs will flee.

feste
05-02-2012, 10:55 AM
Egil you sig is awesome!

Brimacombe
05-02-2012, 11:25 AM
Egil is correct. Social mobs will stay if they have another of their type with them. I have used that fact to my advantage many times.

Additionally, MOBs do not follow the bulk of the rules players must follow. There are exemptions and exceptions, but they just prove the rule. This is why you turn into a Hulk-o-Maniac when King Xorbb charms you, because you temporarily switch to the MOB ruleset plus you have all that gear.

-Brimacombe

bulbousaur
05-02-2012, 01:40 PM
On live, mobs would sow each other in indoor dungeons. It was a cheat they had, and PCs could not do the same. Saw it many times.

Slave
05-02-2012, 03:50 PM
1. Their pursuit speed is little to no different than it was on live. Run at diagonals with mouselook and they will never touch you. Not once, ever.



Mob run speed on P99 is significantly higher than it ever was in live. It is known.

Teddie1056
05-02-2012, 03:54 PM
I don't think they would sow each other, maybe they just wouldn't sow through walls like they do.

Either way, I used to be able to kill fleeing sowed mobs just fine on live.

Teddie1056
05-02-2012, 04:10 PM
Protip: This ain't classic.

Naelor
05-02-2012, 04:13 PM
lol

mwatt
05-02-2012, 08:39 PM
Its the stupid direction changes that drive me crazy. I don't ever remember them going that crazy years ago.

This comment has merit - they do seem to juke a lot more frequently than I recall them ever juking on live, at any stage in the development of EQ.

I also think the initial flee speed is slightly high.

I also think the mob hit box from behind is just a little bit too small.

To sum up my opinion (and I know, no dev asked me for it :) ) ... if the initial flee speed were a wee bit slower, the mobs jewked about half as much and If I could have a chance to hit them from a tiny bit further away, then mobs fleeing would be a fantastic return to one of the original attributes of battle in EQ. As it stands, it just feels a little bit wrong and is at least mildly annoying.

webrunner5
05-02-2012, 08:51 PM
The Mob hit Box may be not as small as we think. I think a lot has to do with their faster run speed and erratic pathing when running like hell. Just a thought.

Deverell
05-03-2012, 12:11 AM
Mob run speed is a little faster here than on live, but not so much that it really changes much. The big difference is that mobs can hit you from really far away if you're running in a straight line away from them, and people fail to notice this when it happens and just think the mobs are running really fast. Strafe away to avoid this and you'll see that they don't run that fast. It's maybe 5% faster than normal player run speed.

Mobs will SoW indoors and will cast it on eachother. They'll also buff the shit out of eachother, through walls and everything. That was the case on live as well. Gets kinda problematic in places like LGuk and Sebilis where you'll often have a dozen mob within casting range, so everything is fully buffed. If you're smart, you pull with dispel. Might knock haste and cleric hp buff off the mob.

kaev
05-03-2012, 12:22 AM
Egil you sig is awesome!

empty quoting for great justice!




Also, deverell's advice is good and is the only actual use I ever found for the Deepwater Gaunts clickie on live (a 7 second cast Cancel Magic? gee thanks so much for thinking of us Brad.)

Slave
05-03-2012, 12:42 AM
Mob run speed is a little faster here than on live, but not so much that it really changes much.

If that was the case, we would not have the 204th thread on mob run speed here that we are all now posting in.

webrunner5
05-03-2012, 02:40 AM
If that was the case, we would not have the 204th thread on mob run speed here that we are all now posting in.

What he said.

Spitty
05-03-2012, 02:58 AM
Agreed. I haven't been on p99 in a while because it's freaking ridiculous currently and not at all classic/fun.

I had to be on root spam for every mob, because if I'm even half a second behind the damn thing will be out of range before my spell lands and I'm gating before the train comes back.

If this was classic, then I was playing another game entirely from '99 on.

Hugmukk
05-03-2012, 03:02 AM
These threads wouldn't exist if people weren't spoiled for so long. On live you never went into a dungeon without snare. That's how rangers, druids, and wizards got invited to groups.

Mobs always SoW'd indoors.

you must be one of the classes above. Mobs did sow each other and in dungeons also, but ever since the patch the run speed of mobs when they are fleeing is 1.5x of their normal run speed.

Supaskillz
05-03-2012, 03:23 AM
Why are people spreading these lies about 1.5x normal run speed. This is obviously not true coming from someone who has done alot of playing since the last patch. I can chase running mobs and keep up unless they have sow. This feels pretty classic to me. Don't snare it, it gets adds, you wipe or evac.

Llodd
05-03-2012, 04:15 AM
What puzzles me is that such a fundamental part of the game has taken this long to implement.

All those who went befotre have been extremely lucky to have not had to deal with this.

ps. oh and has this really had an effect on server pop? seems to have go down a bit of late or is that just a natural cycle?

Destan
05-03-2012, 04:36 AM
If that was the case, we would not have the 204th thread on mob run speed here that we are all now posting in.

Yeah but not everyone posting in those threads is in agreement. Maybe the difference is many of you claiming it's out of control have been on project 1999 for so long you've forgotten what '99 was like. Mobs would run at a very similar speed if un-snared. I played a ranger from March of '99 to Velious, and that's just how it worked. Their run speed is hardly different, just fast enough to require focused chasing, just slow enough that you can keep up to melee them without sow.

If anything I'd agree with something another poster mentioned about their erratic movements. It does seem, but only sometimes, like they are bobbing and weaving a bit more than I remembered (which is part of why it seems 'challenging' to chase them down now). But this is why having a snare was a requirement in your dungeon groups on live. They would run, quickly, and bring adds. I know from experience, as a ranger every group I was in delegated snare duties to me. And if I failed, it would usually cause chaos. Until this patch I hadn't even seen the need to snare anything, since when it finally would run it would meander away like it had decided the fight was boring and was going to take a stroll.

kaev
05-03-2012, 12:01 PM
you must be one of the classes above. Mobs did sow each other and in dungeons also, but ever since the patch the run speed of mobs when they are fleeing is 1.5x of their normal run speed.

That just pure BS. If it were actually true you could not keep up with a fleeing mob without SoW, yet amazingly enough you can. They do not flee at pursuit speed either, this I know because, once again, I can in fact keep up with a fleeing mob using normal movement (no strafing) without a runspeed buff.

The hysteria in these "204 threads" is more than a little comical, thanks for the entertainment.

Teddie1056
05-03-2012, 03:13 PM
I used to farm Rathyl on live, and I do now. Rathyl paths out of his cell, out of the next cell, the runs into the jail pit and disappears upward. This is how it was on live, yet he would never make it to the disappearing part. Now I have to be vigilant as ever or I can lose my mob. I remember this real well, so it def isn't 100% classic flee.

Danyelle
05-03-2012, 03:16 PM
Flee speed and pathing are two completely different things.

Anything dealing with how fast the mob is running is flee speed. Anything dealing with where the mob goes when it runs is the zone's path grid.

If the later is your complaint, this thread should be about the path grid not being Classic. Not the flee speed.

Slave
05-03-2012, 07:16 PM
The problem lies in the fact that the natural movement speed of the mobs is much faster here than it was in Classic. That is likely what is causing such discrepancies in flee speed from Classic flee speeds. It's also the probable cause of mobs to not become frozen at 0% speed while in flee mode from a Snare effect, which would be Classic: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=72857

The natural movement speed of mobs here is NASTY faster than Classic. 10-15% faster for starters. If you had the lead, you could literally autorun in a straight line to the zoneline and win. Here you take 10 steps from nearly maximum cast range and they're up your ass, even with JBoots effect. Mobs should be EXACTLY as fast as players under most circumstances. There were actually those that were slower, ie beetles.

Combined with things like gigantic player hitboxes, tiny mob hitboxes, and flee speed while snared, well, these problems feed off each other synergistically and the end result is 204 threads of people expressing concern while others trollingly shit on them for not explaining the whole thing out in such depressing detail as above.

Teddie1056
05-03-2012, 09:48 PM
Yeah, no amount of people saying "Lulz newb, you don't know what classic is," is gonna convince me. I was there too guys back in the day. I think I know the run mechanics.

I do think the dungeon sowed mobs are due to casters being able to see through walls.

I am glad that the put in the kick stun though.

Safon
05-03-2012, 10:13 PM
Agreed. I haven't been on p99 in a while because it's freaking ridiculous currently and not at all classic/fun.

I had to be on root spam for every mob, because if I'm even half a second behind the damn thing will be out of range before my spell lands and I'm gating before the train comes back.

If this was classic, then I was playing another game entirely from '99 on.

Server is much better off without pansies like you. Stay out

Safon
05-03-2012, 10:18 PM
A disturbing amount of whiners up in this thread. Don't like the run speed?

Deal with it, or ragequit off the server like Spitty

Spitty
05-04-2012, 04:55 AM
You sure have flame for me, whomever you are. Kudos to you and your rage.