Enchant Spells (Cultural Armor)

[Treats]

These spells should require a gem as well as the block to Enchant them until April 17, 2001.

Unsure about Enchant Velium (Velious) -- I only see Velium Bar as the required component

Spell Changes:
Removed Gem component from the following spells. They will now only require the metal components. These are the Enchant spells for making cultural armor.
Enchant Velium
Enchant Mithril
Enchant Adamantite
Enchant Steel
Enchant Brellium

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20010417a.html

Enchant Velium (Velious) -- Unknown (Nothin in spdat)
Enchant Mithril -- Blue Diamond
Enchant Adamantite -- Blue Diamond
Enchant Steel -- Jacinth
Enchant Brellium -- Jacinth

[Furme]

unpopular bump =p

[Treats]

Fix?

[Splorf22]

So making a set of DE cultural should require 10 blue diamonds or what not? No wonder they took that out.

[Ele]

no wonder I don't remember seeing this armor around on live lol

[Sarius]

Helluva guy Treats is

[Frieza_Prexus]

Enchant Velium did indeed has a component: http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20010417a.html

[Treats]

The Velious spdat that I have from February 2, 2001 doesn't list any other component for Enchanting a Velium Bar.

Enchant Velium
Summoning Enchanted Bar of Velium


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Classes: Enc (L44)

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Requires 22098 as a reagent

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Skill: Alteration
Allowable Targets: Self

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Resistance Check: None

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Mana Required: 200
Spell Duration: Instant
Casting Time: 6.0 seconds
Spell Recovery: 2.25 seconds

[Nirgon]

I dropped a spell file for Koros if you want that. It's a few months before Luclin and a result of one of the last patches I think, it's the straight dope too.

[Ele]

Caster's Realm has some comments indicating that enchanting mithril did indeed require Blue Diamonds. The linked page is a screen shot post-patch, but the comments come months before hand and show evidence that Blue Diamonds were required:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010725174205/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spell.asp?Id=1416

FORGET THIS SPELL, By Bowynn (3/7/2001)

With the implementation of blue diamond jewelry this spell is effectively worthless. Not only is Blue Diamond jewelry implemented, but each metal makes a DIFFERENT piec of jewelry meaning a person can basically wear EIGHT pieces of blue diamond jewelry, Head, 2 earrings, 2 bracers, 2 rings, and a necklace.

DISAPPEARING DIAMOND, By Rhiannan crystalweave (1/28/2001)

Someone asked earlier if the diamond is just needed as a component to cast the spell or if it's consumed? It's consumed! I was called upon to cast this spell and the diamond said, 'Buh-bye'. As far as where you buy the spell, it's sold in the Felwithe casters guild by the vendor who sells the tiny daggers if memory serves me correctly. I bought all 4 of the new enchant spells and all were sold by vendors you wouldn't expect.

DISGRUNTLED ENCHANTER, By Bette (1/28/2001)

The fact that these diamonds usually sell for around 250, and 3 bricks are required for an enchanted elvish chain tunic. In addition to the difficulty in requiring a temper. Wouldn't one say 4int 4wis 2sv mag is kinda shabby for the amount of time and PP put into the armour enchanted mithril can make? My guild has been working on suiting our elvish officers in these tunics. Being that we're a low-mid level guild a 4int 4wis tunic is a very nice peice, but at the level that it's accessible its both useless and extremely expensive, which makes selling it a prohibative trade at best.

54TH ENCHANTER, By Yazz of prexus (1/28/2001)

Memmed this, casted it and we now know you need 2 items.
1.)A large brick of Mithril 2.) A blue diamond.

As for where this drops, I have no idea.

Enchanted Admantite same thing:
http://web.archive.org/web/20010725174954/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spell.asp?Id=1418


SPELL COMMENTS
WAY TOO EXPENSIVE REAGENT, By Shaniallon of mithaniel marr (3/12/2001)

I feel this reagent is way too expensive after the new jewlery came..
Blue diamonds are like 2k now, so a tunic of imbued adamantite would be 6k per attempt, is this really the meaning? SMR is like 5k now, and is a better deal for a caster.

[Ele]

EQTraders identifies Enchant Mithril as requiring a blue diamond as a component in this February 23, 2001 snapshot for "Enchanted Elven chainmail"

http://web.archive.org/web/20010223165052/http://www.eqtraders.com/secrets/recipes_smithing_high_elf.htm

(large mithril bricks are enchanted using the level 49 enchant mithril spell. This eats a rare drop blue diamond as it's material component. The enchanted bricks are then formed into mithril rings using the recipe provided above)

http://web.archive.org/web/20010204190300/http://www.eqtraders.com/secrets/darkelf.html
February 4, 2001 snapshot from EQTraders

Enchanted adamantite requires blue diamond as part of enchant adamantite

enchanted adamantite chain requires, enchanted adamantite. The enchanter must enchant the bricks before you forge them into rings (This spell eats a rare drop blue diamond as it's material component)

Trivial: imbued arms >185

http://web.archive.org/web/20010412193037/http://www.eqtraders.com/secrets/recipes_smithing_human.htm
April 12, 2001 snapshot of EQTrader Human cultural armor
(Note: enchanted large bricks of HQ ore are made using the level 49 enchant steel spell. It eats a rare drop jacinth as it's material component. The enchanted large bricks are then formed into various enchanted rings, folded sheets, etc. as listed below)

[SirAlvarex]

All of a sudden the oddly overpowered Elven cultural armor makes sense.

[nilbog]

Will nerf this when I get time..

Obvious question is: what to do with all the existing cultural armor, if anything?

[quido]

Rename it and make it statless like with BD gear, then setup custom combines requiring the statless pieces and the constituent gems!

[Frieza_Prexus]

Rename it and make it statless like with BD gear, then setup custom combines requiring the statless pieces and the constituent gems!

^^^^

[SirAlvarex]

Rename it and make it statless like with BD gear, then setup custom combines requiring the statless pieces and the constituent gems!

That...actually makes sense.

[SirAlvarex]

Although one could argue that the immense amount of money people paid to get the armor "as is" would be inline with how much it would cost post-Blue Diamond requirement.

Now that I don't know what to do about.

[Treats]

Will nerf this when I get time..

Obvious question is: what to do with all the existing cultural armor, if anything?

I thought about this awhile ago the only solution I could come up with would be to reimburse every piece of armor on the server with the components it took to do the combine (Minus the gem of course).

This way if you still wanted the cultural armor piece you would have all components and just require the gem. I'm sure some of the assholes of the server would charge you to perform the combine though. Perhaps implement an NPC in EC for a limited amount of time that would take all of the components and the gem to reward you with the item combine.

Jeremy's idea is pretty good too, make the cultural armor statless for a limited time and then implement an NPC in EC that will give you the stat armor for that plus the gem. After awhile just empty the statless armor from the database.

[-Catherin-]

So making a set of DE cultural should require 10 blue diamonds or what not? No wonder they took that out.

actually a lot more than 10. its one blue diamond PER enchant. so add it up. takes 3 enchanted blocks to make one enchanted sheet. 3 enchanted sheets to make a BP. also needs the chain jointing which needs another enchanted block. so TEN blue diamonds for the Breastplate ALONE

[Frieza_Prexus]

If you go with the statless solution, be sure to make it non-wearable.

Wasn't one of the big draws of it on live that it looked way different, and that it gave a lot of prestige? Must enforce classic fashion choices.

[AexDestroy]

Am I the only one who still thinks none of this armor should be in the game at all before Velious? What resources did people find to say that any of the Cultural armor should be in before velious? I personally never saw a single piece of this dope ass enchanted cultural armor that we enjoy before mid-late velious.

[zanderklocke]

This nerf makes sense. I mean for bards, the mystic koada stuff is better than planar except for maybe greaves, BP, and maybe boots. It's pretty much better than singing steel too due to no stats on singing steel aside from greaves and BP. Basically, only better armor in game is the blazing armor. Seems odd that for 2-2.5K, bards can have better armor than planar drops.

I'm just happy I upgraded beyond mystic koada armor, otherwise I'd be pissed!

[Crawdad]

Well, this will potentially make a lot of Bard twinks very, very sad. I can't foresee leaving existing armor the same though. It would cost what, about 70ish Blue Diamonds for a full suit?

I had finally started to find Mists, too...

[Vega]

I thought about this awhile ago the only solution I could come up with would be to reimburse every piece of armor on the server with the components it took to do the combine (Minus the gem of course).

This assumes the combines are 100% success rate.

If you go with the statless solution, be sure to make it non-wearable.

Wasn't one of the big draws of it on live that it looked way different, and that it gave a lot of prestige? Must enforce classic fashion choices.

I guess I haven't checked, but don't the non-enchanted versions look the same?

[Splorf22]

actually a lot more than 10. its one blue diamond PER enchant. so add it up. takes 3 enchanted blocks to make one enchanted sheet. 3 enchanted sheets to make a BP. also needs the chain jointing which needs another enchanted block. so TEN blue diamonds for the Breastplate ALONE

Ouch! And imagine trying to skill up with those requirements in the game. So basically elven cultural smithing will vanish until Velious.

[kaev]

Hey, don't forget to nerf all the Wu's (except hands) while you're at it, and those lovely Wizard rings, and...

[Menemas]

Blue Diamonds for Tier'dal and Koada'dal, but only Jacinths for Dwarven? /facepalm

[Ele]

Hey, don't forget to nerf all the Wu's (except hands) while you're at it, and those lovely Wizard rings, and...

.

Just make the current enchanted armors non enchanted versions. Add an NPC that will exchange if you hand in the appropriate # of gems to make it enchanted. For a limited time.

People need to remember that blue diamonds were just vendor fodder until these recipes came online.

[Splorf22]

. Add an NPC that will exchange if you hand in the appropriate # of gems to make it enchanted. For a limited time.

WHAT? NOT CLASSIC

[Ele]

WHAT? NOT CLASSIC

!!! non-classic solution to non-classic problem! Just brainstorming silly goose.

The people crafting this stuff have already made a ton of plat off of it. At least allowing people to get the proper item it should have been if they want to redeem a few dozen blue diamonds/jacinths should be allowed. Although I doubt anyone will dump a bunch of blue diamonds into those sets, jacinths much more likely.

If the items are left in game as is, but no one bothers crafting more of the enchanted stuff, then it skyrockets in price (like imbued plat fire rings).

#1 spells must be fixed to require jem & metal components;
#2 figure out what to do with current enchanted versions (leave in like imbued rings, go statless like BD jewelry, or convert to non-enchanted versions);
#3 decide whether to allow people to redeem or upgrade if they want to turn in the appropriate amount of gems.

[teija]

i just dropped like 25k on a set of this stuff.....would rly hate to login 1 day to a stripped toon, think i would quit actually.

[tacomagradd]

i just dropped like 25k on a set of this stuff.....would rly hate to login 1 day to a stripped toon, think i would quit actually.

I agree 100%. We going to blame players who spent their hard earned cash on this and solve the problem by making them pay the price? Sounds like a good way to get people to /q.

I should add, I was one of those non-forum followers who lost out from buying Blue Diamond resist gear my guild required right before patch.

[Splorf22]

I'm just trolling. On a more serious note, there are only 4 slots in NPC turnins right? Is the code smart enough to handle a stack of 10 Blue Diamonds?

[-Catherin-]

personally I think the cat is too far out of the bag in this situation to put it back in now. It would cause some pretty significant problems. it is not realistic for most of the player base to throw dozens of blue diamonds at gear they already spent a lot of money on to keep it the way it is.

Just like wus and the imbued rings, what was made is probably going to have to stay, just fix the future enchants to use those gems.

possibly make what has already been crafted no drop so that it stays where it is, effectively removing them from circulation

[kaev]

...

possibly make what has already been crafted no drop so that it stays where it is, effectively removing them from circulation

That seems a very good suggestion to me.


Bias: I have a Human Blacksmith with 211 skill and have made some of the mediocre Qeynos forge stuff that would be affected by the Jacinth requirement. Also, I have a WoodElf who wears some of the more unbalanced HighElf stuff, but hoping to replace those with planar drops over time since he's a Warrior, so the proposed nodrop change would potentially cost me pp I could get reselling those pieces while the suggested blue diamond turn-in requirement would lead me to simply stop using the HighElf pieces as they are not worth that kind of pp to a Warrior. I do not have any chars wearing any of the most powerful (Dwarven) stuff.

[Erati]

I agree with Cath on this one, making the existing items no drop would make sure that the people got what they paid for yet keeps it out of circulation if its deemed nerfed

[tacomagradd]

I agree with Cath on this one, making the existing items no drop would make sure that the people got what they paid for yet keeps it out of circulation if its deemed nerfed

This sounds like a fair compromise.

[Menemas]

I support Catherin's compromise

[SirAlvarex]

+1 on making the armor no drop.

[Frieza_Prexus]

If the no drop solution is on the table, might as well go ahead and nix any era-inappropriate items as well. Wu's, Sol Ro wizard rings, etc.

[Buellen]

Time wise I would think the converting of all the enchanted cultural blacksmith to stateless would be very time consuming, but probably more classic solution.

Flagging all the various pieces involved to no drop would probably be a quicker solution if not totally classic for our current time line.

Non enchanted cultural blacksmith combines might be more in demand after "whatever FIX " s applied.

just some thoughts

Garue 45th level Half elf warrior

Buskier 34th level human Cleric

[Karnaji]

I think that the current pieces in circulation should be made NO-DROP so we're not screwing over dozens of people who have these pieces, and they should retain their current stats

This is basically the same idea as many other pre-nerf items, is it not? Why not continue with the current pattern.

[Lostprophets]

If the no drop solution is on the table, might as well go ahead and nix any era-inappropriate items as well. Wu's, Sol Ro wizard rings, etc.

+1 for this idea.

[thieros]

Problem: Cultural too easy/inexpensive to craft due to reagent not being required when enchanting spell

Solution:
1) Leave already crafted gear as is and fix recipe
- Clearly the right choice - The gear is era-appropriate and can be crafted either way. The fact a reagent was required but not implemented does not mean this armor should not exist. So when nerf implemented, gear should stay the same. Easiest fix, but also the best all things considered.

2) Make no drop and fix recipe and fix recipe
- Good second choice. Prohibits inflation of current in game gear while retaining the benefits that players have spent their hard earned plat on acquiring the gear.

3) Remove stats and fix recipe
- Makes 0 sense - See above. era-appropriate gear. Makes great sense for non era-appropriate gear, i.e. BD jewelry but for people that spent 25k/set(some of us having many characters geared out in this attire) is huge knock to them who wasted money on what is a legitimate era-appropriate piece of equipment

4) convert to non-enchanted versions
- Makes 0 sense - See above. era-appropriate gear. Does make sense in any scenario considering amount of work and unsure what this really accomplishes aside from slapping a lot of people in the face that spent 25k/set(some of us having many characters geared out in this attire)

Anyway you look at it, sucks for us crafter's: drumas, catherin, lewelyn, myself, and many others that have poured tons of time(and plat) upping skills but we can continue making the gear albeit at an extremely high cost as catherin has pointed out. There is already a deficiency in EQ tradeskills that was recognized and fixed in later expansions, but we shoot for classic here so what ya gonna do!

[SirAlvarex]

This mistake is different from the other crafting ones. IE this armor should have been *uber* rare. 10 Blue Diamonds for a single BP? Excluding failures? That alone is what, 40k? The other gear (Wu's) will eventually be in the game, and so in 3 years it won't matter that there are pieces floating around. While there is armor that was nearly best in slot for bards/paladins/(Warriors? Lotsa Dex) that could be floating around. It's akin to having planar gear be no drop, since characters of all levels can use it.

I think no drop is the best solution since the damage has been done. There was a ton of money that changed hands due to this bug and unfortunately nothing can be done about it, but atleast the problem can be fixed moving forward.

[SirAlvarex]

Really making it no drop fixes the biggest flaw that is coming up right now: Insider Trading. There are now atleast 2 crafters that know this change will go in soon(ish). Which means that unless the armor is made no-drop, you guys can farm a bunch of Morning Dew and make full sets ready to sell for 100% markup of what they used to be sold for.

Making the armor no-drop means that we won't get a mudflation of armor in the market between now and the patch.

[-Catherin-]

Would love an idea of what they are planning to do with the nerf to this. I've stopped taking orders in fear of the backlash if it gets nerfed in a bad way, and I cringe at how many people may still be buying the armor with no knowledge of what may happen to it

[Vega]

This mistake is different from the other crafting ones. IE this armor should have been *uber* rare. 10 Blue Diamonds for a single BP? Excluding failures? That alone is what, 40k? The other gear (Wu's) will eventually be in the game, and so in 3 years it won't matter that there are pieces floating around.

Actually, I think the comparison to Wu's is more in favor of the cultural armor than you think. Wu's shouldn't even be in the game yet, where as the cultural should be (if rarer). Also, if you go by these:

Wu's (other than gauntlets) wasn't available until 6 months or so after velious release.

These spells should require a gem as well as the block to Enchant them until April 17, 2001.

Then the cultural will get easier to make again before Wu's is even back in game.

An important aspect that I think people are glossing over is that blue diamonds seemed to only be used for enchanting at this point in the timeline (per Ele's quote):

I feel this reagent is way too expensive after the new jewlery came..
Blue diamonds are like 2k now, so a tunic of imbued adamantite would be 6k per attempt, is this really the meaning? SMR is like 5k now, and is a better deal for a caster.

The price for blue diamonds is artificially inflated here because people know the jewelry will be coming. Ele's other quote said something about blue diamonds being around 250. The armor wasn't as cheap on live as it currently is here, but we're also talking about making it potentially 10x as expensive as it was on live at this point in the timeline.

[kaev]

Still a smith advertising this stuff in EC, really would like an idea what the devstaff is gonna do (and when.)

[Edame]

Bump

[Nodalis]

Would love to know what is going to happen, as far as removing stats, making no drop, or leaving existing pieces as they are. This is going to affect a lot of people, a good portion of the server, and not just twinks, have some form of cultural armor on.

[Stinkum]

I personally am in favor of all the cultural armor, as well as all other items that should not exist in this timeline, being completely deleted from the game.

[nilbog]

Pending update,

Enchanting for cultural armor requires classic reagents: Enchant Mithril - Blue Diamond, Enchant Adamantite - Blue Diamond, Enchant Steel - Jacinth, Enchant Brellium - Jacinth

[kaev]

I personally am in favor of all the cultural armor, as well as all other items that should not exist in this timeline, being completely deleted from the game.

Lotta players would be hit hard by that, many of whom really had no way to suspect there was any issue with the gear they bought (not counting the damned Wu Monkeys, they know or should know they're using gear that shouldn't exist.) I wouldn't cry any tears for them myself, but I can't see the powers-that-be taking such a harsh position.

[kaev]

Pending update,

Enchanting for cultural armor requires classic reagents: Enchant Mithril - Blue Diamond, Enchant Adamantite - Blue Diamond, Enchant Steel - Jacinth, Enchant Brellium - Jacinth

No impact on existing? You know that's just going to encourage smiths to stockpile enchanted metal right? Gotta make hay while the sun shines. This won't really change anything about the inappropriately large amount of enchanted cultural flooding the server, just gonna raise the prices a little after the update until demand vs. supply settles. :(

[Stinkum]

They most likely won't do anything affecting the already existing armor.

This is the same thing they did for Wu's -- removed the recipe, but no impact on the stuff that was already made. Prices went up slightly, but not by much, since there were already literally 1,000s of Wu's sets in circulation. There is a large saturation of these cultural sets in game as well.

[nilbog]

No impact on existing?

I made the changes necessary to fix the bug in the original post.

The options of what to do with the existing armor are being discussed amongst developers.

[kaev]

I made the changes necessary to fix the bug in the original post.

The options of what to do with the existing armor are being discussed amongst developers.

Glad to hear that.

[Nodalis]

Thanks for the update

[Kevynne]

Nilbog, wus armor isn't in till velious but you left it in.

Therefore SYOU should've left blue diamond gearin.

Anyways

Leave in current cultural armor, disable the recipes.

[Treats]

Nilbog, wus armor isn't in till velious but you left it in.

Therefore SYOU should've left blue diamond gearin.

Anyways

Leave in current cultural armor, disable the recipes.

The recipes do not need to be disabled...

They were supposed to require certain gems to enchant the metals, this is the problem.

I still still think giving all of the materials that were used to create the pieces back to the players is the best solution. Making the armor no drop would be alright I guess too but then it will have no value.

No Drop = Worth 0 Plat
Materials = Recreate item with proper gems, sell for a lot more plat because the armor will be very rare

[Erati]

Disassemble armor that should be in the game currently.

Leave assembled items like Wu's, Imbued Fire Opal Wizy Sol Ro rings etc untouched tho you shouldnt be even able to make them.

That makes no sense. Disassembling the stuff also means you need to reset the skill they gained from making items which would mean they get X2 chance to skill up.

Also people of all walks of life with have cursor overflow of disassembled items as many many characters wear full sets of the stuff, and usually they did not make it.

[pharmakos]

wouldn't be fair to the players to do anything with the existing armor

maybe if this was caught closer to kunark release, but the current kunark economy is already so bloated that i don't think these armors are breaking anything.

[Kevynne]

Imbued jewelry should be in game but isn't.

[pharmakos]

right, and that^ stuff shouldn't even be here yet.

cultural armor is era appropriate stuff. the jacinth sets wouldn't even have been that much more expensive.

[Elements]

Although I dont mind the No drop idea for current sets of cultural Im not terribly fond of smiths stockpiling enchanted mats pre nerf in order to take advantage of price spikes post nerf.

What if current sets go no drop, and any stockpiled enchanted bars get removed but reimbursed for their production cost?

[Wrench]

Although I dont mind the No drop idea for current sets of cultural Im not terribly fond of smiths stockpiling enchanted mats pre nerf in order to take advantage of price spikes post nerf.

What if current sets go no drop, and any stockpiled enchanted bars get removed but reimbursed for their production cost?

+1

know for a fact some smiths are stockpiling since nilbog commented here

takin advantage of the system and slimy as f*ck

[Vandy]

They will most likely revert any currently enchanted metals to the unenchanted version to nullify this.

[Elements]

They will most likely revert any currently enchanted metals to the unenchanted version to nullify this.

That would work too. Probably easier to do.

[Menemas]

right, and that^ stuff shouldn't even be here yet.

cultural armor is era appropriate stuff. the jacinth sets wouldn't even have been that much more expensive.

1 Jacinth per CAST of enchant <insert metal>. It takes approximately 74 enchanted bricks to make a full set of armor. With Jacinths currently worth about 300p, that's an increased cost to the smith of 22,200p, not adjusted for failure chance. I don't even want to think about the sets that require blue diamonds or black sapphires.

[kaev]

1 Jacinth per CAST of enchant <insert metal>. It takes approximately 74 enchanted bricks to make a full set of armor. With Jacinths currently worth about 300p, that's an increased cost to the smith of 22,200p, not adjusted for failure chance. I don't even want to think about the sets that require blue diamonds or black sapphires.

Aye, the Human Qeynos stuff is barely worth the trouble without the Jacinth requirement, no real market except for occasional pieces at any price that's reasonable from the smith's perspective, I can't see anybody making it except at a severe loss once this gets patched. (LOL'ing everyday at people who think Essence of Sunlight actually worth anything on this server as it is.)

[pharmakos]

i happily paid 14k for 5 pieces of electrum Enchanted Full Plate (i'm a dexterity/sv magic whore). would still have happily paid for it if i had to cover the cost of Jacinths too.

Lewellyn was tough to track down though! i really hope the devs don't make me get this stuff smithed again. he's the only human cultural smith i know of, and he plays pretty much the opposite times i do (he's euro)... took me like a month to catch him online the first time around (he doesn't use the forums so i couldn't just PM him)

[kaev]

My smith would've done those five pieces for quite a bit less than 14k :D When I tried to sell the enchanted Human cultural back last fall nobody was ever interested in buying so I eventually quit trying. I've still got some enchanted mats leftover in my smith char's bank for nearly a year now. Now I just have my mule sell the Rallos-imbued Freeport stuff (won't be affected by this change as does not use enchanted ore) since there is occasionally somebody around who wants to buy, and I'll take orders for other imbues (except Mith Marr and Bertoxx, lololol).

[pharmakos]

appears to have been fixed in the new patch http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=124070