Max Resist Cap should be 255

[Splorf22]

It has always bothered me that the stat cap is 255 but the resist cap is 500 or something. 255 is not an arbitrary choice: the mediocre programmers at Verant, unaware of stuff like Amdahls Law, were trying to save memory and use byte values to store these things serverside (for a rough savings of 45kb; they were morons). This is the same reason nothing in Kunark has more than 32k HP, which is the amount which fits into a signed 2-byte integer.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2180 from 1/15/2001

Uh...315 WIS isn't possible, I think. A gnome cleric I know by the name of Bishoopugget on Luclin had his WIS stat wrap from 255 back to 1 when he tried to go higher.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-2256.html Also from 1/1/2001

This is enough to get you close to 255 rp. Do not go over 255 you will get mess up. I have tried it both ways and no matter what VI says I resist the RP with 239 rp and get creamed with 255+.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-5049.html 3/2002

At 54 your likely to be taking full or near full damage on every WW dragon AE, so instant cast buffs will be of fairly significant importance... you'll drop fast if you lose symbol + hb + resist buffs. As I am sure you know shoot for 100+mr AND 100+cr or fr simultaneously depending on the type of AE you will be facing. If you can get a bard in your group it would be helpful but DO NOT roll over 255 in any resist when fully buffed (inc bard songs)... Verant keeps saying that the resist rollover bug is fixed and I keep seeing evidence to the contrary. Ideally you should be sitting around 190-210 in the resists you need for a specific encounter when fully buffed. That number is from my personal experiences. Example:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10918 11/2001

That's an old rumour, and I'm pretty sure it's completely false. People just expect to resist *everything* at 300 resists, and when they don't, or when they have a string of bad luck, they start looking for reasons why. Resists may be capped at 255 (or 200), but they don't roll over. I sit at 262 MR fully buffed, and I resist a lot more than I do unbuffed, and a whole lot more than I would at 7 MR, I'm sure.

As far as i know:
Resists are based on level a lot. A lvl 60 with worst resists will resist much more then a 55 with better resists.
Resists cap at 255. They don't roll over, they just cap.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9096 8/2001

I think EM legs have poison resist too, add on a couple of +5 resist all items, prismatic shield for 10 resist all, BD bracers and earrings, electrum diamond mask, then add talisman of shadoo and DMF and you're above 255 at that point. Disease shouldn't be much different, because like poison it's seen as a giveaway resist on items, though I do agree that disease resist is rarer just because it seems to be the forgotten resist stat.

Now let's also remember that this was the dot-com boom. If you were a great programmer, were you working at Verant Interactive? Hell no. My suspicion is:
1. Originally the programmers stored both stat and resist values in 1-byte unsigned integers with no check
2. Somewhere in late Kunark people started getting enough gear to go over 255; some programmer did the 1-liner hack val = min(255, val) thus at least fixing the wraparound
3. Somewhere after this (before Planes of Power for sure) the typedef was changed. It might have been around the release of Luclin where Verant realized that their itemization guys weren't talking to the game balance guys and decided to handle everything with caps.

It's definitely not an ironclad proof or anything, but if things really were the way I suspect it would be almost impossible to prove one way or another. Nirgon where the hell have you been on this issue?

[Ele]

I approve.

[Splorf22]

^

Nirgon, where are you to keep this thread alive???

[Nirgon]

Approved

So let it be done

Trivializes the fuck out of content!

"hur hur hur got 400 magic gonna go immune VS/Phara Dar".

Omg... so not classic... I gotta go lay down... momma's gettin' the brain pains.

The chickens are comin' home to roost bluebies, you will reap the error of your ways.

[Itap]

Take notes nirgon, this is how you do a bug report.

[Nirgon]

I don't need to take any notes, scum

[Fountree]

I really don't see any of this as definitive proof, and with a big change like this I'm pretty sure you're going to need more. And if it is in fact impossible to prove one way or another then...well don't fix what's not broken?

[Zeelot]

After seeing this thread and thinking about it, I'm pretty sure the 255 cap is classic. Wish I still had some of my old SS's to confirm. All on a fried HD. I remember having resists cap at 255 back in the day for what its worth.

[Splorf22]

I really don't see any of this as definitive proof, and with a big change like this I'm pretty sure you're going to need more. And if it is in fact impossible to prove one way or another then...well don't fix what's not broken?

It isn't, as I said in my original post. I just think it's far, far more likely. Why would Verant use a 2 byte integer for resists when using a 1 byte integer for stats? It just doesn't make sense.

[Nirgon]

I'm not asking for a window where it rolls over past 255 :P That is cray.

But 255 should be the cap.

[Nirgon]

Levels also need to be *greatly* considered when resisting spells.

Dragon fear should send basically every non 57+ flying.

I had quotes that are long gone since sites are down where guilds say "don't come to Kunark dragons unless 57+" or "now that we're all 58+ we're downing them". Will hafta do the digging but .... 255 is cap pals.

The 300+ stuff is like PoP era. I logged in PoP on a wizard someone had obtained to PvP and people were resisting Lure of Ro and rapture and shit, beating faces with Vanazir and lol'ing :P.

[Silo69]

i had sites that are also long gone that say the complete opposite

guess were both shit out of luck eh?

also resists always went over 300+ with a bard never 255

[Nizzarr]

would take a major rehaul of the spells system to go back to the old system -- When they changed resists they also changed dragon aoes to reflect that change.

not sure if thats even possible on this client. Would create a lot of problems and probably take 5+ patches to get shit right.

At the rate we're getting patches(once every 2-3 months) this would break the game for almost a year.

[Nirgon]

^ ill be submitting this Silo69 quote as evidence to the pixel crimes division. Chooses subverting the server for easier pixel gain over authentic classic.

255 was resist cap :P

Source (http://innoruukguildalliance.yuku.com/topic/940/Killing-Severilious-EJ-Dragon-is-possible)

Resists past 255 don't matter, there's a cap at that point. Used to be that it would roll over, so that if you got 256 PR, you really only had 1. And we wondered why Trak would always land his ae on us =p

[Silo69]

if thats your "proof"

then i have over a hundred of similar postings about how -cha helped necro's fear

your gonna need way better than that

[Nirgon]

Goofballs and weirdos on ZAM don't quite measure up to someone explicitly describing a raid strategy on a raid guild board during that era.

(September 2000)

[cyryllis]

edit: it appears on live LOWER resists seemed to work better than higher? http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:kXaLhZNS0I4J:www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php%3Ft%3D10918+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Seems that people resisted spells with 170-200 resist better than they did with 255. Obviously its true because I found it on an old post. Seems we need to fix this so I can bank some resist gear and roll around with 180 instead of 300+

edit x 2: above link disproves display cap of 255, since duirng velious people are posting comments regarding 300 resist, and person directly in thread says they display over 260.

[Nirgon]

It can display more than that, but it won't use more than that.

Asked dev to explain, his answer regarding functionality:

DB might say max resist is 256; however the sourcde says Max Eff. = 212



well for resists the source contains a maximum for each mob... and it's price is right style.
trak is 252 closest to that number without going over with a grace of 2
the grace means 85% effective and 75% effective...
so for trak do not go past 252... hit it dead on... 253 means your working with ~215


Answer regarding showing that you have more than it, but using not all of it or less (including a bit of above):

the DB has maximum displayable; source has maximum obtainable.


AKA a lvl 55 can only go as high as 100 resist, anything over won't be considered, whereas a lvl 60 gets the full money 252. Then the "broken part" explaining going over... is clearly explained in bold.

I think the missing piece of the puzzle is something like you can only be effective up to a certain amount based on your level. I'll ask more.

[Splorf22]

edit: it appears on live LOWER resists seemed to work better than higher? http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:kXaLhZNS0I4J:www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php%3Ft%3D10918+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Seems that people resisted spells with 170-200 resist better than they did with 255. Obviously its true because I found it on an old post. Seems we need to fix this so I can bank some resist gear and roll around with 180 instead of 300+

edit x 2: above link disproves display cap of 255, since duirng velious people are posting comments regarding 300 resist, and person directly in thread says they display over 260.

I can't tell if you are serious or not, so let me make this crystal clear. Both the client and server will store your resist values. For the client, there is no reason not to use a string or whatever: there are 11 values, so you would be saving 11 bytes. HOORAY. The server has 3000 players and maybe 10000 NPCs. That's 130kb of memory savings. Wrong, but not 0. Therefore it is reasonable, in fact even LIKELY, that the server used 1 byte and the client used more. Which means that the client would display 50000 resist, but the server would simply not accept that value. Which is the whole point that they are debating in the thread!

[Nirgon]

I have a raid guild's board comments and deeper explaination from an EQ dev that matches this resistance behavior exactly.

Make 255 the cap and apply to all NPCs, its still MORE classic.

And to Nizzar's comment, Uthgaard's formula doesn't consider PoP or classic or anything. It's a custom set that I find to be very lacking, ESPECIALLY considering players 57 and under. It's functional, and has rhyme and reason now. However, it needs to be steered closer as we approach Velious raid content.

Aside, invis pulling and 255 resist cap need to go in before Velious lest we taint the sacred Velious pixels. This isn't asking for anything insane either. I can't recall a SINGLE dragon fight where all the 60s completely resisted every fear and aoe. Claiming such is just crazy.

[Splorf22]

Could you get him to post the source code?

P.S. who is this guy and what code does he have?

[Nirgon]

1. Source would do us no good, its drastically different than eqemu. What we need is the logic to follow that can be coded.

2.
A - Can't say
B - Whatever we wanna know when he has time.

[Nizzarr]

if you were 60s with 255+ resist back then it was easier to resists aoes.

They made the 2002/09/04 patch in that effect, they removed the level part of the equation and replaced it with a minus 150 resist adjust on some of the aoes.

With the 255 resist cap, you had something like ~215 resists after the 6 level difference between you and the dragon in Veeshan's peak. This translates to around 365 resists right now with the current system.

So currently, the dragon aoes are hitting more often than not. Changing This would make it much easier for our current overgeared characters to resists the aoes.

If you want more info on this, look up the resist change patch.

[Nirgon]

Severilous aoe should be cake to resist this much is true.

Dragon fear'd still hit me around the 200 marker at 60, but wouldn't last full duration almost ever.

[Nizzarr]

I'm all for switching to the old resist system if its manageable.

Here's a snippet from hoshkar's aoe(Diseased Cloud) lucy.

2002-09-04 11:33 Changed Resistadj from 0 to -150
2002-09-04 11:33 Changed Durationtext from 1 ticks @L1 to 3.0 mins @L60 to 1 ticks @L1 to 3.3 mins @L65
2002-09-04 11:33 Changed Unknown139 from to 1
2002-06-12 12:27 Changed Unknown130 from 0 to 100
2002-06-12 12:27 Changed SpellIcon from to
2002-06-05 11:20 Changed SpellIcon from to
2002-03-07 11:32 Initial Entry

So you can see that for classic there was no -150 resist adjust, but the mob level(65 or 66) was doing most of the resist adjustment. If you were not 60, you'd get raped by all those aoes. If you were 60 and had 255 resist you were in the 75%+ resist on level 66 mobs.

My point is if you do change this, you need to bring back mob level resist adjustment and get rid of the set -150 on most of the aoes encountered in kunark. Having 255 resist and those -150 adjust is just plain ridiculous.

edit:
Being fair, the current system isnt that bad -- its just not tuned for classic. That system was designed for the planes of power era and the raiders then had luclins + ntov resists.

I cant imagine the amount of work that would be involved in changing the resist system back to the real classic experience. Thats why I dont think we will see any of it.

[Nirgon]

Don't think making resist max 255 is too hard for one.

Also check my poison breath classic DB shot dude, shows -150 on poison breath (nice lil contradiction to your argument here sir). Pretty much seals it for me. This is well before 2002, esp in EQ years with expansions about a year and change or so apart.

Changing back and forth from 0,-150,0 and other values is pretty common for the lucy entrees around PoP/Luclin etc.

[Nirgon]

So you can see that for classic there was no -150 resist adjust

http://i49.tinypic.com/a3nkfo.jpg

Your forumquest is over.


http://whatgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/funny-gifs-deal-with-it.gif

[quido]

Prove that the 255 cap is a cap within the server and not within the client! Perhaps the old client was being sent values over 255 and the client merely truncated them.

PROVE ME WRONG SUKKAS

[Nirgon]

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/299/319/333.png

[Bamzal Sherbet]

Prove that the 255 cap is a cap within the server and not within the client! Perhaps the old client was being sent values over 255 and the client merely truncated them.

PROVE ME WRONG SUKKAS

everything capped at 255. resists for some reason are the only one that didnt have it capped on the client display.

Even AC and ATK used to show "out of 1000"

http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/eq_original_ui_inventory.jpg

[Nirgon]

The database snap shots appear to be admissable as evidence in court..

However, the code itself... I mean I could just lie and paste something in myself. That's harder to prove.

Can one of the chiefs of classic implementation explain to me what would be required as proof codewise?

This piece of the convo confirmed for me what part is DB and what part is source:


well for resists the source contains a maximum for each mob

^ I would think the DB would have mob specifics (that's how I, or anyone else I consider a talented source dev who uses a DB would do it)... seems real backwards to me but.. this was the 1999 coding approach maybe? I was in high school when these guys were coding this shit and my... how practices have changed... I think storing things in plain text at one point was considered safe as long as the DB software was considered up to date? Lawl.

As far as maximum obtainable, not even mob specific..

the DB has maximum displayable; source has maximum obtainable.


Again wtf. You'd think max displayable and attainable would both be static variables in the source if one was being done that way? Or something in the DB that could be changed on the fly.. for what purpose I can't think of a reason without a resist system overhaul... I'm not sure what madness they had going on... but, I'm not sure WHERE (how? heh?) it was stored then as opposed to now on the eqemu source matters.

The point is that 255 is referenced to be the cap and the player sources mentioning it are extremely credible in my eyes. That said, I can't see anyone refuting the point in these few threads that we can find.

This one sticks for me, and trust me I will be quick in the event I make a mistake to readily admit any fault and bring it up any time I put my word on the line (Venril aoe was ferking dumb but misleading based on what was stored/access restriction due to # of modifications.. user not admin access atm, botching the pvp debuff amount from memory.. shoulda fact checked). The -150 resist check and 255 cap are during the same era and I am sure correctly implementing this cap would bring raid encounters much more in line with what I remember. I'd of course never ask for something goofy like the roll over bug to be added somewhere to the timeline for the "true timeline" project completion server that rolls out some day.

This resist stuff is ole Uthgaard's bag along with some of the other head scratcher issues to try and make work here. The current code is "much more classic" than whatever existed before, of this I am certain, however, getting 400 magic or w/e and perma resisting Venril taps is a classic immersion destroyer for me.

[Nizzarr]

2002-09-04 11:33 Changed Resistadj from 0 to -150
2002-06-12 12:27 Changed Unknown130 from 0 to 100
2002-06-12 12:27 Changed SpellIcon from to
2002-06-05 11:20 Changed SpellIcon from to
2002-03-07 11:32 Initial Entry

heres lucy from poison breath

Fact is, there were no resist adjustment before the resist change patch. it was all based on levels.

For the funnies, look up diseased cloud, Stream of acid, Chaos breath and stun breath

[Nirgon]

Why does this DB have the shadoo stacking issue correct and from a classic Velious source... and also show a -150 for Trakanon? It's irrefutable Nizzarr.

This just makes fight a little more interesting for top end guilds, but in no real way puts them in any risk to be failed by the numbers and gear (hi blue diamonds!) used to engage them.

Stacking MR to 400 to immune VS tap is silly, that is my shining example of why this needs to change. It is insanely not classic. People seem to be JUST fine with hitting the 255 ceiling as far as most things go, we're just removing the ability to overstack and turn some encounters into laughable fights by comparison or make VS killable without enchanters for example (makes me light headed thinking about it, oh my immersion).

Your lucy entry has nothing from the 2000-2001 era for these spells. I see lots of things (look up hundred blows and other things) that are data mined and changed rapidly but then again brought back in line with their classic values. However, their current -150 or what have you resist modifiers match what is being used in what is currently admitted as evidence to change things.

[Nizzarr]

Give me lure of ice from your DB, if theres a resist adjust on it then the 2002-09-04 patch was applied to it.

Oh wait you wont post that if it has one will you?

[Nirgon]

Okay I'll work on getting that. I'm an honest person.

[Treats]

The spdat is weird differentiating between PC spells and NPC AoE's.

Here is Envenomed Breath and Poison Breath (Velious spdat):

Envenomed Breath
Adding 3 Poison counters
Decrease Current Hitpoints by 30 (L24)
DoT for 189 Hit Points (HP) in 7 ticks


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Classes: Shm (L24)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Range to Target: 200 feet
Pushes Target Back: 0 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skill: Conjuration
Allowable Targets: All

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Resistance Check: Poison + 25

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mana Required: 100
Spell Duration: 7 ticks (42 seconds)
Duration Formula: 1
Casting Time: 3.10 seconds
Spell Recovery: 2.50 seconds

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spell cast on you: You have been poisoned.
Spell cast on someone: Soandso has been poisoned.
Spell fades: The poison has run its course.


Poison Breath
Adding 9 Poison counters
DoT for 750000 Hit Points (HP) in 5000 ticks
Decrease Current Hitpoints by 1200 (L1)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Classes: None

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Area Effect Range: 300 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skill: Instantaneous
Allowable Targets: Point Blank AoE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Resistance Check: Poison

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spell Duration: 5000 ticks (500.0 minutes)
Duration Formula: 11
Recast Delay: 35.0 seconds

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spell cast on you: A green mist seeps into your skin.


For the PC spell it has a resist adjust of Poison +25.

Poison Breath has none, just Poison.

The resist adjust had to have been stored server side for these AoE's, Nirgon has shown it being -150.

This could have been done once parsing began on the spdat because they didn't want anyone to know the resist adjust values. Another possibility is anything without +5, +10, +15, +20, +25 had it taken from the server database and was overridden.

Give me lure of ice from your DB, if theres a resist adjust on it then the 2002-09-04 patch was applied to it.

Oh wait you wont post that if it has one will you?

There is no way this is possible, the last update to that database was made in May of 2001. I'm sure there are different adjusts for each of those spells you mentioned also -- Stream of Acid, Diseased Cloud, Stun Breath, Chaos Breath. It doesn't really prove anything, it just shows that the adjust was taken server side.

I'm afraid to get the correct Resist adjusts for all AoE's you would have to go through that database spell by spell.

[Nirgon]

My boss would ask me if I was feeling OK if I was storing a non-static comparison/type variable inside a class file and not as a system property in the database. The point is, I believe they were taken from code source and moved into the database (aka someone with good design skills got involved).

AKA: spell database is created, all spells are default 0 by that column (hence 0), you see it changed to -150 when someone got to updating that.

I might have more goodies for ya :P, stay tuned!

[Unfun]

Pic from velious-era with resists over 255. Could be a client issue but why cap all other stats at 255 (note the str) but not resists?

http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/images/shadoz.jpg

[Nirgon]

Again display vs effect gained... mentioned in the comment I posted.

They'd go over 255, then suddenly get hit 100% of the time by things.

[heartbrand]

lots of conjecture in this thread no solid facts

[Nirgon]

Comments from a raid guild in September 2000 without them disputing it is good evidence to me, bub.

[Giovanni]

Again display vs effect gained... mentioned in the comment I posted.

They'd go over 255, then suddenly get hit 100% of the time by things.


There were definitely theories on live that pvp resists over 255 were actually rolling over and decreasing your ability to resist spells.

[cyryllis]

i have proof from a forum from 2000 that shows that neg cha helped necros fear better. no one said it didnt so it must be true.

your logic wins

[Nirgon]

This comment is from a raid guild posting from provable experience, not some guy on zam saying he thinks he heard or thinks he noticed negative cha stuff.

[heartbrand]

I have proof from forums that an anti-camp raidus is in effect

[Silo69]

i have proof that jumping increased distance when fleeing from a mob

[Nirgon]

Jumping does do that though and strafe running reduces the range a mob can hit you by about 1/3 (classic too not just here).

I'm not contending necro CHA, I believe its proven to only work for enchanters although it would make sense that it SHOULD effect charm spells of other classes. I know it mattered for enchanters on live, not sure on the others.

Tell me you really think or can find raid strategies saying to get 400 magic resist to be immune to Venril Sathir tap in Kunark. That shit is cray.

[Silo69]

cha here has no benefit with necro and charm mechanics, fact its not classic, necros have there own secret resist modifer when it comes to charm according to nilbog

cha is SUPPOSE to affect necro charm but here it does not

/not classic?

[Nirgon]

This is about the 255 resist cap where an experienced raider specifically reports the issue and instances of it happening to his guild.

Show me proof of someone in Kunark saying "get 400 resist" for anything, especially as a way to be immune to VS tap.

This shouldn't be a terribly complicated change to implement and would make things much, much more classic.

This Shadoo thread would be going to exact same way without that DB shot. /shrug.

[Silo69]

you cant get 400+ resists without a bard in your party...

why are you so mad at bards?

[Splorf22]

Silo, must you even troll the bug threads?

Anyway like most stuff this isn't cut and dried. Unless we had an actual log resist rates we'll never know for sure. I just feel that based on the evidence its far more likely that 255 was the cap, and the -150 was added because really what else could they do? Trakanon has the same amount of HP as Nagafen and Vox and they wanted to make him a challenge.

[Nirgon]

Nag/Vox breaths had -modifiers too. You didn't resist them as easily as say a flame shock from an NPC. I'm aware of level differences, fact remains. Dragon roar was harder to resist than a casted fear from a red con NPC as well.

[Yibz]

Although I'm all for making certain mobs harder, basing all of this off what someone said on a forum isn't good enough. People say dumb things on the forums all the time (see VS).

[Nirgon]

It's not harder, its more classic. 0 people stacked MR to 400 to resist VS tap. It was not possible.

Higher resist items will be going in for Velious. It will be VERY sad to see some melee in 400 magic/Velious ac gear and a cleric stamp him down.

[Silo69]

Silo, must you even troll the bug threads?

Anyway like most stuff this isn't cut and dried. Unless we had an actual log resist rates we'll never know for sure. I just feel that based on the evidence its far more likely that 255 was the cap, and the -150 was added because really what else could they do? Trakanon has the same amount of HP as Nagafen and Vox and they wanted to make him a challenge.

no im not trolling im sick of you guys that dont even play here do nothing but look for ways to "make this server classic" in your free time

you cant go by one post of some random guy that said something and assume by that one post to destroy the integrity of the server because you are over everquest

you guys use to post great info with reliable sources but lately i constantly see you guys posting "i am certain this is the way it was".. not good enough get lost post better info

i can post over 20+ replies by players in the 2000 circa that thought -cha helped necro's fear better and we know that its not the case....

one post isnt good enough to revamp an entire resist system, diminishing returns make sense but bards and primal always put players way way over the cap and it was just hearsay like your speculation

we need more info other than 2 guys posting about there thoughts and "this guy says" thats all i see

"sondoso says that getting over 255+ mr would make root land everytime i swear" your just as bad as the -cha guys lately

you are getting lazy im here to stop you from your bullshit

[Nirgon]

I play here (both servers).

We've changed things based on 1 person from a credible raid guild's comments before (OP has tons of stuff though).

Sorry I can't find 20 sources talking about resists going over 255. I can't find ANY saying get 400 resist or "I had about 400 resist and it never hit me" from 1999-2000 anywhere.

Why are you bringing up necro CHA? No one is saying that should be the case here.

There weren't many posts about things that weren't broken in live pal. There will never be patch notes for something like this. The guy who posted that isn't an idiot or just guessing.

I understand most of the people who claim to have played since 1999 don't know what the benefits of a necro or a shaman are or which to roll or want to start a rogue solo and complain about xp rates (totally unrelated to their rogue's ability to solo, but yet they complain).. or they fondly remember solo'ing Trakanon on their druid in whatever expansion and are used to ezmode EQ. Sorry this change has proof, and being unable to gimp VS with 400 magic or the other raid bosses rustles your ezpixel Jimmies.

Invis pulling is another one of these hotly defended topics by people such as you. It is goofy.

[Splorf22]

no im not trolling im sick of you guys that dont even play here do nothing but look for ways to "make this server classic" in your free time

you cant go by one post of some random guy that said something and assume by that one post to destroy the integrity of the server because you are over everquest

you guys use to post great info with reliable sources but lately i constantly see you guys posting "i am certain this is the way it was".. not good enough get lost post better info

i can post over 20+ replies by players in the 2000 circa that thought -cha helped necro's fear better and we know that its not the case....

one post isnt good enough to revamp an entire resist system, diminishing returns make sense but bards and primal always put players way way over the cap and it was just hearsay like your speculation

we need more info other than 2 guys posting about there thoughts and "this guy says" thats all i see

"sondoso says that getting over 255+ mr would make root land everytime i swear" your just as bad as the -cha guys lately

you are getting lazy im here to stop you from your bullshit

Of course I still play you tool, that's why I have like 10 characters in my sig.

And as I have stated about a million times, a 255 cap on resists is the logical thing. It should take evidence for resists to go over 255, not vice versa. If you wanna find a bunch of posts recommending 300PR for Trak be my guest.

[Nirgon]

Here's an account of a player with 255 poison/magic..

Source (http://www.graffe.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-4885.html?):

Encsed in Forst? Blister? Root? Hrm.. doesn't seem to be the AE stuff that woushi does when we kill her. I'm on the Inoruuk server, and we've killed her, but only probs we have are her Stun (gawd that is annoying) and her fear. We do full poison resist and have no problem about AE nukes or AE DoT's.. Just that stupid-
"You begin to cast Lure of Frost"
"You are stunned"
"Your casting has been inturupted"
"You lose Control of yourself"
"You are no longer stunned"
"You gain Control"
"You are stunned"
"You are stunned"
"You are no longer stunned"
"You are stunned"

GAWD it's a nightmare!!! (Had 255MR and 255PR (Thanx Bard)) and STILL Got stunned and feared.


Another gem regarding players should have a chance to resist naked (bout 5%, same source)

I reisted his ICE spells twince NAKED! was damn lucky I guess, had time to gate

[falkun]

While max resists displayed should be 255, there is evidence that the resist number does not roll over and that the server actually uses the additional resist that isn't displayed above 255:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010630164355/http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/bard_talk.html

ITEM: Resists.

DESCRIPTION: One of the key things that bards offer their groups, especially at higher levels, is resistance boosting. Bards would like to see a greater value for resists that get up to or near 255. There is also a rumor that there is a roll-over bug when resists exceed 255 that should be dispelled.

Resists over 255 don't roll over, but there isn't much evidence that they do anything. With 500 MR I resist all fears from Klandicar. People with 100 say they resist most, with 175 they say they resist all. With 430 MR I resisted very little from the enchanter warder in ST. Resists may or may not be working properly, but it's certain that having a bard is not as useful as having another class, and this is with MR - the resist a bard can buff far beyond all others.

[Splorf22]

That post seems to say the guy thinks resists cap at 255.

[falkun]

That's Thott of Mithaniel Marr's Afterlife guild. Not saying he had code access, but he's up there with Furor about knowing EQ's mechanics. If he says "the resist values do not roll over, the variable just does not display values larger than 255," I'm inclined to believe him. And that's how I read his post.

[Splorf22]

Resists over 255 don't roll over, but there isn't much evidence that they do anything.

That seems 100% consistent with what I wrote on the first page (probably there was a rollover bug, then it was "fixed" to cap at 255 with a 1-line hack, and finally Verant made caps a first-class part of their system in PoP)

[kaos057]

Heres some more
http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?p=98779

Resists should be able to go over 255 but anything over 255 is pretty much ignored. So if you have 500 MR its the same as having 255 MR.

[Nizzarr]

This server uses the pre-planes of power resist changes.
The -150 aoe check were added on that patch.
Resists were "capped" at 255 then.

You cant fix this without fixing ALL of it at the sametime.

Effect of this patch: Hoshkar/Nexona are much "easier", Phara dar is much "harder".
Velious mobs gets harder/easier depending on the mobs. This would need to be fixed before velious release.

[pasi]

This server uses the pre-planes of power resist changes.
The -150 aoe check were added on that patch.
Resists were "capped" at 255 then.

You cant fix this without fixing ALL of it at the sametime.

Effect of this patch: Hoshkar/Nexona are much "easier", Phara dar is much "harder".
Velious mobs gets harder/easier depending on the mobs. This would need to be fixed before velious release.

This.

[Nirgon]

Fixed before Velious absolutely

People probably remember their Velious dragon fights better and as it stands I see a lot of "well this is a joke here" going on during beta.

So, truzme.

I know Uthgard went at length with players here trying to tune things for Kunark but...

Let's be honest with ourselves. They were likely trying to weasel something into their favor :P.

Another great issue to bring up regarding raid encounter difficulty is the extra dot tick dilemma that's being researched.

My personal "vivid memory" test would be in full blue diamond etc, buffed and seeing how many times Lord Yelinak's AoE hit me.

[Niples]

bump for max 255 resist, also stop the rechargin of stuff would be awsome

[Tecmos Deception]

Don't derail a classic mechanic thread with that shit, Niples.

[Raev]

If resists are simply capped at 255 Velious will be impossible. You need like 350 MR to even think about resisting Dragon fear from a L66 mob.

OTOH, a true classic system would make Velious much, much easier, because we won't need bards for every group.

[Niples]

wasn't trying to derail was just thinking out loud sorry

[Daldaen]

If resists are simply capped at 255 Velious will be impossible. You need like 350 MR to even think about resisting Dragon fear from a L66 mob.

OTOH, a true classic system would make Velious much, much easier, because we won't need bards for every group.

Requiring a bard for every group for a small chance to resist an AE is extremely not classic. So is requiring you have 90%+ of your slots filled with Max resist gear. People would throw on some BD jewelry and a few other pieces to hit 100-150, then let the rest of it come from buffs or bards.

Really hoping this is resolved before Velious launch. There has been an undue necessity to have Max MR gear on this server for far too long. It's dumb really that I have to devote more than a bag to just MR to have a fraction of a chance to resist fear.