Yeah the low/mid-level vacuum in raiding guilds has more to do with the lack of substance for the non-raiding player. 9/10 they'll just get bored regardless of the kind of community in the guild. There's nothing to do but group with alts, if they aren't busy.

If you are starting from 40 or something and are already grouping with members during off-raid time you might get a good feel for the kind of players you want to group with not only in how they interact with each other but also in how they interact with the game. When applying to a guild they're doing the same to you. Even on a low level character you might be making some friends in high places :)

Keep an eye out for alts. Even raid guilds have tagged alts running around all over the place.

Sue your /who all commands and seek out some of these players and try to get in groups with them. Lots of recruiting happens this way. before you know it you have spent 5-10 levels getting to know a few people from a guild and those very same people will end up being your sponsor when it's time for you to apply.

Hang in there man!

That sounds like what I would say to them before telling them to STFU and get to the back of the line. If they don't like it boot them.

No reason to punish all people for being lower level.

Just my thoughts not trying to pick on any one guild in particular.

Yitro - 47 Wizard

I wouldn't consider that punishing people of lower level - it's hard to have enough low levels in a guild whose purpose is to beat the crap out of the high level stuff without them getting bored. Once they get bored it's like, "sorry buddy we've moved on and now you have to catch up again." It makes sense to just have people that are willing to keep up with the pace of the rest of the guild. Considering the size of this server it's very easy to run into anyone from any guild and to get a feel for their membership. Player interactions are fairly commonplace... if they aren't, start sending /tells!

As I said, that is one example of thousands.

I think you forget how the guild system works in this game. "Booting" someone is not as easy as it sounds. This isn't WoW where you can kick someone out of the guild at any given time whether they are logged in or not. You have to be in the same zone, they have to be online, and I believe you have to even be targeting them.

Ha.. that, too. Membership is precious 'round these here parts. Some consideration has to go into making you a part of a community :)

That is true. If they wanted to be asshats they would still have access to your guild chat but you could easily block them from your forums and excommunicate them from your raids and if they were being complete assholes I am sure the GMs could manually remove the tag.

I understand why guilds do what they do it is just frustrating to the new players who don't really get much of a chance to get to know the guilds that we think we would like to join.

Yitro - 47 Wizard

/agree. Got to be there. It't hard to get to know people, let alone all of the folks already in a guild that conceivably know each other. I remember in the old days, how folks would want to tag all the time and I was like- I don't even know you. And I was a mage so as a mage I really needed to develop social and player skills to be able to hook up consistently with those on my friends lists that I had good groups with. If they were tagged, and I saw another member of that guild I would say hello and ask if they know that person on my friedns list, if they did not, that spoke volumes to me. If they did and it was positive, that spoke volumes more because I knew if I grouped with them, they could tag back to their member to compare experiences and I could to the same.

You never heard of http://peacepipeguild.com

That is my point, doesnt matter how long people play, whether it is 2 weeks or 6 months, everyone will stop playing their toon at some point. The point I was making is that you can enjoy anyone's company in a guild regardless of what lvl they are or how long they play. HIgh lvls get bored just as much as lower lvls do. Lower lvls actually have something to do, like lvl up. In reality when you invite someone into your guild you dont know how long they will be playing, and it shouldnt matter, just have fun with they during the time they are active.

There is more to this game than just raiding, that is only one aspect of it. If you limit your guild to just raiding, then your guild will miss out on the lvling up part. Guild contribution should not be just on some job performance, but contributing by bringing a good sense of humor or even some ideas that others havent thought about or information that others dont have, etc etc. None of those things have anything to do with lvl or class.

You can raid without placing lvl requirements on new people, it isnt necessary, I have seen it before in other guilds.