Guild Mentalities

[Jhaaz]

Basicallly there are 50 lvls right now on this server. Well what I dont really get is this so called friendly guilds that have lvl restrictions in order to get in to their guild. My ponder is I want to join a group of people and have fun with them from 1st to 50th, not wait till 46th lvl or whatever to join, most of the "fun" stuff is over by then, and you are just down to the raid grind. I dont really see why any guild that has alts or toons under their lvl req would make a lvl requirement for new people. I dont think there is a all 50th lvl guild on this server, cause I am pretty sure every guild has lower lvl toons in it type. And having to join one guild while one has to "wait" till they reach a certain lvl to join another guild is lame. Everyone eventually gets to max lvl.

In my experience people dont really get to know other people really well unless they do some 1 group stuff together, cause sure as hell cant get to know someone in a herd of 40 or so people on a raid. Yeh so "applications" and all that other stuff doesnt really tell you anything about someone or about the guild, accept maybe that they are applying to a job instead of playing a game. And the funniest of all is the uber guilds that tell you to get to know the guild better, but dont tag or give them access to guild chat, that is an oxymoron.

And the ones that claim to be causal or causal-raiding guild and yet they want all new people to be a certain lvl to join... why what difference does that make if you not raiding all the time.

And I have seen these patterns in most fantasy online games, just doesnt make since here imho.

[Odeseus]

Few things come to mind.

1) You want people who will stick around. Let's face it, if you spend all the hours needed to hit 46+, you will not suddenly abandon that character. At a lower level, say 20, it is much more likely to reroll something else and/or not stick around.

2) Along those same lines, you don't want to invest time, energy and possibly loot/plat to a toon that won't stick around. There isn't much that is quite as frustrating as helping someone out to get uber_item_x for them to just leave the guild or simply stop playing because they aren't having much fun in p99.

3) You want good players. It doesn't take much to get to say, level 20. It isn't easy but you don't have to be a great player to manage it. Particularly for classes like mages. However, level 46+ is definitely not easy to do. If you can manage that, chances are high that you at least kind of know your class/know how to play/are at least an average player.

4) You want want to avoid players with bad reputations. If you are a low level and are a complete ass, chances are high that only a few people know you and know you're someone to be avoided. At level 46+, you are much more likely to be known to a greater portion of the server (for good or bad). And at that level, guilds are much less likely to tag someone who will hurt their reputation on this server. In a small community like this, rep matters.

5) *for raid guilds only* For raiding guilds, they want someone who will actually raid and be useful in said raids. Until about 46, you are more or less useless (although this is just an assumption on my part, since I'm not part of a raid guild, nor am I anywhere close to 46). No reason to tag lower levels if they can't help you in raids anyway.

These are just the reasons I can think of off the top of my head as to why you would put a high level requirement on applications. I understand and agree that there should be more lower level guilds, but there are a few out there and you should try them out.

[Taluvill]

Originally Posted by Odeseus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Few things come to mind.

1) You want people who will stick around. Let's face it, if you spend all the hours needed to hit 46+, you will not suddenly abandon that character. At a lower level, say 20, it is much more likely to reroll something else and/or not stick around.

2) Along those same lines, you don't want to invest time, energy and possibly loot/plat to a toon that won't stick around. There isn't much that is quite as frustrating as helping someone out to get uber_item_x for them to just leave the guild or simply stop playing because they aren't having much fun in p99.

3) You want good players. It doesn't take much to get to say, level 20. It isn't easy but you don't have to be a great player to manage it. Particularly for classes like mages. However, level 46+ is definitely not easy to do. If you can manage that, chances are high that you at least kind of know your class/know how to play/are at least an average player.

4) You want want to avoid players with bad reputations. If you are a low level and are a complete ass, chances are high that only a few people know you and know you're someone to be avoided. At level 46+, you are much more likely to be known to a greater portion of the server (for good or bad). And at that level, guilds are much less likely to tag someone who will hurt their reputation on this server. In a small community like this, rep matters.

5) *for raid guilds only* For raiding guilds, they want someone who will actually raid and be useful in said raids. Until about 46, you are more or less useless (although this is just an assumption on my part, since I'm not part of a raid guild, nor am I anywhere close to 46). No reason to tag lower levels if they can't help you in raids anyway.

These are just the reasons I can think of off the top of my head as to why you would put a high level requirement on applications. I understand and agree that there should be more lower level guilds, but there are a few out there and you should try them out.

He hit the nail on the head there.

If your under 46 in a raiding guild, you can come sit with them for naggy and vox, but thats about it. if your a wizard or a druid, you can help with mobilization, but unless your a good friend of someones, why risk it or take the hassle?

You would be extremely surprised how well you can get to know people in a raid situation of 40+. In a raiding guild, good players can watch other players and tell pretty immediately if they are good, bad, or in between. People also talk on raids, and its part of what keeps it fun. If you sit there and are shy the whole time, you won't make any friends and you will sit there raiding monotonously. You have no idea how many friends I've made on raids just saying something stupid or funny and chatting about it for awhile.

The bad reputation thing is a serious concern. On a server like this, reputation means everything and a lot of us older players remember what happened and who said/did what back when fear was being contested, Naggy was being trained for, and when hate opened as well. So when you think of it like that, not much of anything is forgotten, and I imagine in a small community like this (although I expect it to grow with kunark through velious) a lot of people will remember a lot of what you do/say and what you post on the forums.

TLDR: Sorry for the wall of text, but there are guilds out there that invite you 1-50 and then raid, but you don't see many of them contesting for spawns in the planes/dragons. It's a different mentality that you have to adopt and accept, or just be the type of person to be a part of it. He hit everything perfectly.

[karsten]

Originally Posted by Taluvill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In a raiding guild, good players can watch other players and tell pretty immediately if they are good, bad, or in between

thats why we didn't invite taluvill OH SNAP


<3

[Taluvill]

Originally Posted by karsten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

thats why we didn't invite taluvill OH SNAP


<3

= ) Much love bro, I ain't hatin.

[Asher]

Originally Posted by Taluvill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He hit the nail on the head there.

If your under 46 in a raiding guild, you can come sit with them for naggy and vox, but thats about it. if your a wizard or a druid, you can help with mobilization, but unless your a good friend of someones, why risk it or take the hassle?

You would be extremely surprised how well you can get to know people in a raid situation of 40+. In a raiding guild, good players can watch other players and tell pretty immediately if they are good, bad, or in between. People also talk on raids, and its part of what keeps it fun. If you sit there and are shy the whole time, you won't make any friends and you will sit there raiding monotonously. You have no idea how many friends I've made on raids just saying something stupid or funny and chatting about it for awhile.

--- snip ---

I think you missed the point of the OPs message. He wants to join the guild at a lower level so he can get to know people and group up and level with their alts etc. If they are only willing to accept you at the highest levels there isn't really much time to establish a relationship or anything. Sure he wouldn't be able to assist on Planes raids or Vox or Naggy kills but during downtime, which I am sure there is a lot of since raid targets are killed as they spawn, he would like to be able to group with their alts.

I had a somewhat similar situation happen to me. I leveled to 46ish and wanted to get to know some raid guilds. I didn't want to apply anywhere when I was lower level because I am pretty particular about guilds I join and I like to stick it out with the guild I join. I sent some tells to some guild recruiters and wanted to get in on a couple raids with them to get to know them. Some of the smaller raid guilds had no problem taking me on a raid or two to get to know me and some others said I had to apply before they would "get to know me".

I ended up getting a temp tag by one of the guilds I raided with for communication purposes and someone from another guild acted like I just betrayed him. Apparently, raiding with multiple guilds to see which is the best fit isn't how I am supposed to conduct myself. I am sorry, if your guild requires me to apply just so I can get to know you I am going to look elsewhere, at least at first.

I was going to start popping into forums to try and get in on some groups with these guilds so I could get to know people but I think at 50 there isn't much grouping going on and it would is mainly pharming or leveling alts.

I probably should have just joined a guild when I was lower level and grew with that guild. I didn't expect drama over this.

/rant off

Yitro - 47 Wizard

[Odeseus]

These are just the reasons I can think of off the top of my head as to why you would put a high level requirement on applications. I understand and agree that there should be more lower level guilds, but there are a few out there and you should try them out.

I merely gave reasons why there are level requirements. I actually agree with the OP's larger point that there should be more options for lower level people. If I wasn't a mage and able to solo my way up to this point, I don't know how I would have been able to stand not having someone to talk to, to get help from and to group with. Particularly if your first toon is a melee, you kinda need a guild.

I'm level 34 now and still guildless, mainly because I know that once I join a guild, I probably won't be leaving unless all hell breaks loose. I'm stupidly loyal like that and I know it. So I know that if I join a lower end guild that would actually accept me at 34, I know I will want to leave to raid with some of the big boys eventually. And I don't want to "betray" the lower level guild by leaving. So I create for myself a catch-22.

So right now I'm avoiding making any decisions until I'm closer to 50 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Trimm]

As someone who handles some applicants and recruiting of a raiding guild, it is a bit of a balancing act. One one hand, we'd love to get to know players from a low level up and introduce them to our way of raiding and conducting ourselves, but on the other hand you want higher level committed players who will stick with you for the long haul. Whats to say the first cant also be the latter? Nothing really, its just been our experience that lower level applicants tend to burn out, get bored or simply vanish more than higher level ones.

We try to balance the two out by allowing players to submit applications before they are 46 to show they are interested in being a part of us, but we don't start the formal process until 46. That way, we can know your name and be on the look out for you when we are running around not raiding. Most all level 50 raiding mains have alts who are leveling up, so we try to include those people when looking for groups in their level range.

As stated before, 46 is the magical number in which you can zone into Fear, Hate and Sky where 90% of the weekly raiding takes place.

Edit: Also, we make it a point not to recruit players from other guilds. We don't like when it happens to us, and we don't want to do it to others. However, we also understand that many players want to be in guilds before 46, and have no problem with that. Its another balancing act that is tough because every guild wants quality players, but usually the same quality players want to level within an established guild. Our process is a little stricter than most, but its worked out very well for us, so unless something drastic happens it's what we'll continue to follow.

[korpse]

The Apostle's Doctrine is a guild that recruits based on guild members current lvl range. We started out as recruiting only players between 1-10. Now as everyone has been leveling up together, we recruit 10-20. Other guilds may follow a similar path. Send a tell to Stepka or any other members in game if you're interested.

[President]

Divinity started with zero level restriction.

Then it was level 30, immediate tag.

Then it was level 36, immediate tag, then a vote after a few weeks.

Then it was level 40, immediate tag, then a vote after a few weeks.

Then it was level 46, immediate tag, then a vote after a few weeks.

Now its level 46, raid for a few weeks & get to know people, temp tag, vote after a few weeks.

We *wanted* to be friendly to the casual player, but the casual player kept fucking ruining things that it had to be changed. How can you run a guild when someone joins at level 30, plays till level 40, takes a 4 month break, comes back and gets level 46 and goes RAWR I WANT RAID LOOTS IM A MEMBER! When they have contributed nothing to the guild, and 50% of the active players have never even heard of them.

There are thousands of other scenarios in which ease of recruiting and casualness caused issues, especially in this game where a high percentage of people don't make it past level 20, or 30, or 40. This happened all too often.


Hate the player, not the game.