Project 1999 - Will 1999 ever happen again?

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- - Will 1999 ever happen again? (/forums/showthread.php?t=228052)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sadre Spinegnawer (Post 2186925)

Always a good post topic, imo.

My take is, the first years of MMO's were a once in a lifetime thing. It was new, there was little competition, the internet itself was still new, computer games were more complicated than consoles, people still used computers (most my friends rarely use a computer: they use their pads or phones for most of their online living) as their only online source, and people's attention spans were not divided into a thousand things.

What you are asking, I think, will there ever be a game that requires time, hours at a spell, playing a challenging game with others, and not just for a few weeks before a new game catches your attention, but for months and in fact a year+?

No, that will not happen. Too much has changed with the internet, people, the ways people use the games and devices, etc.

I would argue that is why p99 works. Let's face it, it is a one-off server, and it attracted everyone missing the way we used to do stuff with these things.

I see absolutely no chance of any subscription based, persistence RPG online world in the future. No one is gonna pay, not enough to make any company want to actually invest the kind of capital required. That is why all "persistent" worlds are riddled with PTP loopholes.

It takes tremendous talent and work and money to create a balanced persistent online world that is also policed for hacking. Where is the market? E-gaming deals with session games, where you play these little matches. But a persistent, more-or-less non-linear and open gameworld like eq or even eq2?

No market that will ever command the necessary talent/time/money required to build it.

TL;DR We are stuck with one-offs forever now. Brad McQuaid can enjoy seeing his dream fail, for, it will.

One of the bestselling games on the PS4 last year was Bloodborne. It's not an easy "give you everything" type of game. It falls into a different genre from MMOs but it's proof that a difficult game can be successful *IF* it has compelling gameplay and content.

In some ways I agree that Verant was lucky to get Everquest out the door when they did--I signed up for beta because it was one of the few 3D-accelerated games on the horizon--but I also think the co op group gameplay was revolutionary. Alot of games represent a technical achievement for their time but don't retain any kind of following.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_jon3s (Post 2187012)

The next MMO that will really hook people will be something that uses VR.

You mean... Second life? Oh you said "next", not previous or current.

I'm holding out for AR rather than VR. AR = Augmented Reality. Something like Ingress but using AR glasses/headset.
AR headset = transparent light-weight glasses, maybe plugged into a smart phone. VR Headset = Darth Vader helmet tethered to a toaster oven.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morningbreath (Post 2186889)

does anybody else think a tougher MMO could be on the horizon?

No.

too big of a risk for a game developer, it's just going to get "more accessible" (easier) and flashier. sub fees still exist in some games but that will completely go away and we'll get much more invasive cash shops.

GW2 and the like rim the edges with their cosmetics, future games will go at least wrist deep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamwiseRed (Post 2187014)

No it will never be 1999 again.

well then let's get to work on the backwards time machine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tann (Post 2187044)

GW2 and the like rim the edges with their cosmetics, future games will go at least wrist deep.

On the surface, and so they can claim no p2w. But what is actually happening there is players buy cosmetics to sell to other players, then buy the best gear that takes forever to get the normal way. Full on impulse P2W with capital letters. This they said they weren't going to do, so we paid the hefty box fee. But they did it :p

Don't even get me started on the gambling scheme there with the black lion chests. The big whales spend $1000's in that game, seriously, have met many.

This is all games do now, their whole development plan revolves around getting big money from a small amount of people. If an idea that makes the game more fun interferes with another plan which targets their big ass cash cows, well out goes the fun. So no, it's over, it's what they are all doing.

Don't fall into the common trap of believing challenge is what is missing from things like WoW and gives EQ its soul. WoW is a more "challenging" game than EQ in nearly every way. PvP is necessarily more challenging than anything on Blue because your opponent has the capacity to be smarter than you. WoW's raiding is far more complicated from a tactical standpoint.

What EQ has is tedium, and delayed gratification. It takes a long time to achieve something, and your achievements generally feel good. Also, the sense of community that comes from the absolute need to rely on other people (to travel, to barter items, to level (for most classes)). The destruction of WoW's community that occurred during Wrath is what really, more than any other single thing, destroyed WoW for millions. You were no longer in a cohort with your fellow players, had any reason to interact with or rely on them, etc.

Every MMO since has had the same problem. The extreme on-the-rails nature of their content, soloability, and convenience has resulted in an experience where social bonds seldom formed organically the way they do on P99, and meaningful interaction is really what ultimately fuels enjoyment of an MMO for many people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lune (Post 2187094)

WoW is a more "challenging" game than EQ in nearly every way.

It was? Weird, because the four months I played, I couldn't stop feeling I was a goat endlessly chasing carrots. It was the first mmo that I literally fell to sleep at while playing, and I think I got another gold star thingy while doing it. I remember it as about the dumbest game (well not as bad as AC2), little to no thought or planning required. Just hop in, follow the arrows, nibble on a carrot, get a reward/achievement, then log. I could flex my brain in games like EQ, UO, EVE, SWG, AO. But in WoW, I just flat-lined.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daywolf (Post 2187113)

You clearly didn't read or understand my post, but:

Like I said in my post, WoW has PvP, which is as difficult as your opponent's skill and intelligence (sometimes greater than your own). Did you clear the hardest heroic content? EQ raid content doesn't even come close to being as challenging. Tedium is different than challenge. Playing an enchanter or bard really well, splitting with a monk, isn't as difficult as playing arenas at even a medium level.

Some of the class rotations were also far more complicated and involved than your typical EQ 1-button warm-body buttonmashing.

Dying and going on a corpse run is tedious. There's nothing hard about having to run really far to get your body. It's just a punishment that adds a sense of risk and excitement to the game (And also reliance on other people). It was this tedium that was missing from WoW, not challenge.

@OP with these minecraft pvp kids becoming our future. We should save our humanity now and just nuke the planet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokesan (Post 2187057)

well then let's get to work on the backwards time machine

Been done.

http://i.imgur.com/BlfHrDh.jpg