Game Mechanics: Charmed npcs do too much damage

[koros]

This one is hard to prove, however I have a midlevel enchanter here and on eqmac. My 28 enchanter here just destroys Mistmoore, whereas, my enchanter on eqmac also destroys everything, but his pet does not do nearly as much dps. NPCs hit for max on other npcs WAY too often here, and backstab in particular seems to be an issue.

No real way to verify this other than suggesting the devs make enchanters on eqmac. No patch notes ever spoke about a general npc ac/atk change, so I have to imagine it's classic.

[pharmakos]

wouldn't be that hard to prove really. charm the same NPC on both servers, have them fight the same NPCs, keep logs, and parse them afterwards.

[adam9242]

melee damage in general on p99 seems a bit higher than it was on live, mostly I think, due to the distribution of hits with too many being in the upper half of the damage range

[dali_lb]

Like Adam9242 says, if there is an issue it gotta be because NPC's hit a tad better on EMU servers.

It was first much later in game that they added a diminishing dps on charmed pets, because somewhere between Luclin and PoP, NPC's began to be designed around that you would always have a slower in group to slow them between 50 and 80% so they were redicolous OP'ed dps when charmed and hasted.

Just be glad that it works so well here [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[heartbrand]

Charm nerf is a month or so into gates of discord because of how crazy mob dps got and how it was being used to trivialize content

[Aeolwind]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Charm nerf is a month or so into gates of discord because of how crazy mob dps got and how it was being used to trivialize content

Charming a quad flurry 1100 hitting trash mob was overpowered?! Lies and slander.

Back on topic, AC values are what might be an oddity. We have the formula for determining Min-max range, and the values in between, what I don't remember us having was the actual AC values for mobs, or how to calculate it.

[Treats]

Originally Posted by Aeolwind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Charming a quad flurry 1100 hitting trash mob was overpowered?! Lies and slander.

Back on topic, AC values are what might be an oddity. We have the formula for determining Min-max range, and the values in between, what I don't remember us having was the actual AC values for mobs, or how to calculate it.

I still don't think the formulas for Max damage and the values in between are correct here. There shouldn't be any differing damage tables for different classes -- the only thing damage should rely on is Weapon Skill/Offense/ATK/STR and NPC Mitigation/NPC Avoidance.

Found awhile ago that the STR to ATK formula is not right here. It should only grant an efficiency-ATK bonus after it breaks the 75 point mark.

floor((STR * 2 - 150) / 3)

As for the Armor Mitigation and Avoidance for NPC's this is kind of difficult.

NPC Avoidance is fairly easy as all it relies on is the NPC's Defense Skill and Agility.

NPC Mitigation is difficult to determine what was actually used for this value. My best guess is that the NPC would have used the AC Hardcap determined by their level. This is from my other thread on Armor Class but I have found out a lot of stuff on there is wrong. The hardcaps for Mitigation AC based SOLELY on gear are close though (There is no hardcap on Spell or Class Bonuses).

Melee (non casters)

60 - 289
59 - 275
58 - 261
57 - 247
56 - 233
55 - 219
54 - 205
53 - 191
52 - 177
51 - 163
50 - 149 or 50 - 160
40 - 119 or 40 - 130
30 - 89 or 30 - 100
20 - 59 or 20 - 70
10 - 29 or 10 - 40
1 - 2 or 1 - 10

Caster (Nec/Wiz/Mag/Ench)

60 - 385
59 - 366
58 - 348
57 - 329
56 - 310
55 - 292
54 - 273
53 - 254
52 - 236
51 - 217
50 - 198
40 - 158
30 - 118
20 - 78
10 - 38
1 - 2

+ Monk Bonus for Mitigation
+ Iksar Bonus for Mitigation
+ Rogue Bonus for Mitigation
+ Spell Bonuses

I have no idea how they determined the Avoidance and Mitiation AC for NPC Bosses above Level 60. Possibly could have used straight level for Avoidance (disregarding a 255 cap on Avoidance), but I doubt this because I think hit % stayed the same no matter level of the NPC. Mitigation could have used higher values such as below or possibly even doubling or tripling the hardcap.

60 - 289
61 - 303
62 - 317
63 - 331
64 - 345
65 - 359
66 - 373
67 - 387
68 - 401
69 - 415
70 - 429

[Danth]

Also, there are still cases of mobs that just plain hit for too much, albeit mostly at low-mid levels. Between that and combat generally still acting a little wonky, with an added dash of charm itself probably being modeled on the generous side, you have a recipe for charmed NPC's dominating.

I suspect many of P1999's combat-related oddities stem ultimately from EQ Emulator being based on a version of EQ from after the great combat revamp of circa 2004.

Danth

[falkun]

Charm resist/duration was nerfed on P99 pretty extensively, I do feel devs got that part correct. What could still be off is AC/ATK/DMG calculations. Loraen has already posted how little difference in NPC melee damage is made by increasing AC by 400, which shouldn't be the case. I don't know if its clothies getting hit for too little or plate getting hit for too much, but I don't think the damage calculation considers AC accurately.

[Nirgon]

Post logs here vs logs there.

And by logs I mean like 100 fights of each server.

Probably want to make some text files and link them in here rather than [/quote] blocks :P.

But I do totally agree, seeing a dual wielding froglok quadding for spam 120s in Seb feels classic in absolutely no way.