Question, Re: "Lists"

[Natewest1987]

Is there going to be anything in place to prevent list abuse?

Couple scenarios I can think of...

- PC unable to kill said spawn comes and puts name on list, sits in zone till higher lvl does it. Is the expectation that if we see a lvl 1 on the list we petition for a GM? What if that toon is under roleplay or anon and simply out of sight / invis and therefore can't even be /conned?

- PC puts name on list & brings group of friends who also put their names on the list to discourage other players from sitting around and waiting and can therefore pass the item off to whomever or whichever alt they want after looting it a couple times. Are you going to sit in zone, near spawn camp waiting for an item to drop if there are 4 or 5 people ahead of you ?

- I'm assuming this would be disabled for raid targets?

[zaneosak]

I cant find the posts right now but one of the admins or mods replied to an older thread about this list thing and said there was limitations. You have to been in the zone, be able to hold the camp, etc. etc.

[Wurl]

They also said you'd have to be in an appropriate level range to join the list, IIRC.

[Fammaden]

The understanding is that the list feature is for legacy items only, so for raid targets what is there? Just lustrous russet? I'd assume for raid zones it would be more left to the discretion of the guild.

Also, seems like the list was for specific named mobs, not for items per se. So if its something that drops off multiple things in a zone randomly, there wouldn't be a list feature?

[soronil]

Originally Posted by Natewest1987 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

- PC unable to kill said spawn comes and puts name on list, sits in zone till higher lvl does it. Is the expectation that if we see a lvl 1 on the list we petition for a GM? What if that toon is under roleplay or anon and simply out of sight / invis and therefore can't even be /conned?

- PC puts name on list & brings group of friends who also put their names on the list to discourage other players from sitting around and waiting and can therefore pass the item off to whomever or whichever alt they want after looting it a couple times. Are you going to sit in zone, near spawn camp waiting for an item to drop if there are 4 or 5 people ahead of you ?

Here's the idea:

Level requirement, and you have to be near the spawn. There are also anti afk checks. But, you are not expected to kill the spawn. In fact, if an exp group is there killing that camp, it would be KSing if you, as the top person on the list, killed their mob.

Whoever owns the camp kills the mob, and if the item drops, the person at the top of the list gets a notification and gets to loot it. I assume it works like loot does today, where you have 2-3 min exlcusive window to loot.

If there's not really a group "camping" the spawn, the mob is still going to die. These camps will always have a bunch of level apropriate people sitting there, waiting on the list. 5? 10? 20? Anyway, the mob is going to die, because all of those people want to move up on the list.

If you get 20 friends to zone in at the same time as you, and all get on the list together, and you all want to wait 1. for all the people already ahead of you and 2. all the people in your own group until your turn, then sure. But what is the point of that?
You're not going to trick/intimidate anyone by adding a bunch of people at once. As long as all those people you brought stay, however many hours/days, they get their loot. If most leave right away, then the people logging on (think in terms of multiple people an hour, if nothing but to just check how long the list is) will just jump on and fill the list back up.

It's exhausting how many people have not read any of the dozens of similar questions/responses think they've come up with some great idea to abuse the system that the devs have not thought of. If there's obvious flaws, I'm sure it will be adjusted quickly, but let's just assume they are smarter than most of us with regards to this and trust that they've thought out some of these more trivial ideas.

[Barantor]

I think with all the same type questions on this it would be beneficial to see some of it in action to show how it works and then folks can direct these questions to that.

[Videri]

Originally Posted by Natewest1987 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is there going to be anything in place to prevent list abuse?

GMs said they would police it early on. Any problems or shortcomings of the List will be addressed when they become apparent.

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Originally Posted by Natewest1987 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

- PC unable to kill said spawn comes and puts name on list, sits in zone till higher lvl does it. Is the expectation that if we see a lvl 1 on the list we petition for a GM? What if that toon is under roleplay or anon and simply out of sight / invis and therefore can't even be /conned?

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You will need to be the appropriate level that we pre-determine to add to the list.

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Originally Posted by Natewest1987 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

- PC puts name on list & brings group of friends who also put their names on the list to discourage other players from sitting around and waiting and can therefore pass the item off to whomever or whichever alt they want after looting it a couple times. Are you going to sit in zone, near spawn camp waiting for an item to drop if there are 4 or 5 people ahead of you ?

If those 4 or 5 people are willing to wait for hours just to help their friend(s) get more items, that's their choice. All we have to do is get on the list after them. If they all leave once their friend gets a thingis, then poof, we're farther ahead on the list.

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The items will still be going to those that put the time in. This is not a "Casual" mechanism. This is a "Fair playing field for those that can put the time in".

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Originally Posted by Natewest1987 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

- I'm assuming this would be disabled for raid targets?

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lists
We would like players to have their fair shot at obtaining limited time items, and to that end we are devising a system for a server-kept 'list' of players in line to loot said item.

This indicates there will only be a List for limited-time items. Certainly not for raid targets. Certainly not for every camp or mob.

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[Videri]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lists
We would like players to have their fair shot at obtaining limited time items, and to that end we are devising a system for a server-kept 'list' of players in line to loot said item. Upon entering a zone or camp area, you will be able to enter a command to add yourself to the list for this item. While your name is on that list you must remain in the zone or camp vicinity until your name reaches the top (You'll have a limited time to re-enter the zone or area in case of disconnection). Once your name is up, and the item drops, you will automatically be granted exclusive permission to loot that item from the corpse. We hope this system will prevent the practice of passing camps and/or items to friends, corpsing additional items, and so on. We believe this should closely mimic how the majority of camps were handled in classic Everquest, and is the best solution to mechanically enforce it. More details about this system will be announced prior to launch.

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I want to address a few misconceptions I've seen about the Lists.

The items will still be going to those that put the time in. This is not a "Casual" mechanism. This is a "Fair playing field for those that can put the time in". You will need to be the appropriate level that we pre-determine to add to the list. You need to stay ONLINE and in the zone or near the camp. You need to pass AFK Check Mechanisms. You can only loot it once. Etc. This system is purely to prevent the same people or group of people from holding the camp for days or weeks at a time and stocking up the items for themself and their friends/guildies.

AND they said at some point GMs would be there early on to ensure things go well.

[Natewest1987]

thanks for the replies!

[Wenai]

In an ideal world, it will be like Scout Roll, or Chardok Quest player agreements. Where people show up, help others get their stuff, and then continue on with their day.

Let's hypothetically say that a level 30 Cleric shows up to get a Manastone. Waits his turn in line, helps people out throughout the period. Cleric's turn on the list: everyone refuses to help the guy. He can't solo the EE, and dies. I really... really hope people aren't going to be like that.

Leading up to the announcement of Green, I was pretty sure Manastone in particular was going to be a gong-show. I am glad to see the list system announced. My suggestion would have been to make Manastone Magic/Lore/NoDrop and Soulbound w/ a minimum level loot requirement. Then just revert it to its classic status after removal from drop tables. That way people can only loot one at an appropriate level, and can't corpse or trade them.

I think I like the idea of a list system slightly better because it can properly police order. My hope is just that people get locked out of the list for some significant period of time (measured in weeks) after they successfully loot one; or else we may see more incentive to let that poor Cleric die.