Raid Changes

[Slave]

Variance is probably the worst thing to ever happen to this server.

[Splorf22]

So the longer I stay on this server the more I am convinced that the current implementation of the raid scene is retarded. I absolutely understand why we have variance: no one wants a raid where everyone knows precisely what time a mob will spawn and is sitting there fully buffed. Said raid mob is promptly blasted into oblivion in 25 seconds and the GMs get to figure out who killed him. OH WAIT WE STILL HAVE THAT. Let me recap what happened last night from my point of view (I'm an enchanter in Vesica).

#1 Venril Sathir: I was XP'ing on my warrior when VS pop was announced in guild chat. Finished killing my mob (60 seconds), logged into my enchanter who was camped at the entrance to KC, and VS was already dead because TMO had a bunch of people either sitting there or camped out in his prep room. We had a group of people camping the basement with Yendor scanning track like a madman, by the time they got to VS prep he was at 80%.

#2 Faydedar: Similar sequence, except we got to have 100+ people on the boat to Timorous, which was actually pretty funny. Depending on who you ask, either TMO was kiting it or had FTE, either way IB/VD got the kill in a general clusterfuck.

#3 Innoruuk: Similar sequence. Logged in and got a port to Hate where 3 seconds after entering the zone I was grav fluxed by Innoruuk who had been pulled there by IB, and about all I did was cast resist magic on our wizard who got some nukes in.

Look I want to compete for boss mobs as much as the next guy. If IB/TMO were wiped off the server, I would probably quit too because doing the Kunark content simply isn't that hard right now. What makes it fun is trying to get there before the other guy. The problem right now is that that competition takes the form of sitting at the spawn point for hours at a time.

I've proposed this idea before, but a 1000% better solution is to spawn all the raid mobs (including the epic mobs) at the same time. Collect all the 7 day mobs and put them on 1 timer with no variance, and all the 3 day mobs and put them on another. Results:

Casual guilds like BDA/Divinity/Taken actually get some mobs because IB/VD/TMO can't be everywhere.

Way less bitching and raid interference and kiting and such because there is a good chance the top guilds go after different mobs. It would be worse at the end when only a few targets would be left, but hardly worse than it is now.

No poopsocking - we can all clean our socks!

Actual skill-based competition! ZOMG! Success is determined by picking targets, splitting forces, killing quickly, and not wiping rather than by sitting in a room alt-tabbed out watching movies for 96 hours.

Tons of fun: The server population would probably hit 1000 for 8 hours or so as everyone races around trying to kill 20+ bosses.

I really don't see any downsides to this. I'm guessing that the distribution of loot would remain pretty similar.

[Lazortag]

There's nothing meritocratic about the raid scene as it is. It doesn't take any extra skill or preparation, just the ability to camp your character in a certain spot. The way the kills are spread out actually makes it easier for big guilds to monopolize content. I have few a similar stories about VS. A while ago when I played more on this server I was tracking VS for div. No one asked me to, I just decided it might be a good idea since we'd killed VS the week before and we knew when his window started. When I got to KC, about 30 people from a certain "big guild" were all in the zone near VS's room. I probably stayed in the zone for over 8 hours straight and their numbers never dipped below 30. I went to sleep, logged back in after waking up and they were STILL there. Are you going to tell me that takes more skill?

The variance was put in so that GM's would have to deal with FTE disputes less, but actually now that the spawns don't happen all at once, you get more FTE disputes every week. If Bosses #1, 2, and 3 spawn on monday, tuesday, and wednesday, respectively, then you have a maximum of three FTE claims that need to be sorted out. But if they all spawn at once, not every boss can have this problem. This is proven correct by the fact that when server repops (rarely) happen, you see a lot less FTE disputes happening (you also (used to?) see smaller guilds getting more targets. What a shock. Maybe they aren't such "newbs" after all). Now stretch this to over ten raid mobs (naggy, vox, CT, inny, the djinn's in sky, VS, talendor, gore, sev, trak, faydedar, master yael, etc.) all happening within a small time period, and see how often you're going to have guilds disputing FTE claims.

I'm not sure the variance should be removed entirely, but it should definitely be reduced. Pretty much everyone wants it reduced at least a bit. Having to wait 96 hours for the CHANCE at a raid boss is completely unreasonable. It's also not classic.

[Brokabb]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's nothing meritocratic about the raid scene as it is. It doesn't take any extra skill or preparation, just the ability to camp your character in a certain spot. The way the kills are spread out actually makes it easier for big guilds to monopolize content. I have few a similar stories about VS. A while ago when I played more on this server I was tracking VS for div. No one asked me to, I just decided it might be a good idea since we'd killed VS the week before and we knew when his window started. When I got to KC, about 30 people from a certain "big guild" were all in the zone near VS's room. I probably stayed in the zone for over 8 hours straight and their numbers never dipped below 30. I went to sleep, logged back in after waking up and they were STILL there. Are you going to tell me that takes more skill?

The variance was put in so that GM's would have to deal with FTE disputes less, but actually now that the spawns don't happen all at once, you get more FTE disputes every week. If Bosses #1, 2, and 3 spawn on monday, tuesday, and wednesday, respectively, then you have a maximum of three FTE claims that need to be sorted out. But if they all spawn at once, not every boss can have this problem. This is proven correct by the fact that when server repops (rarely) happen, you see a lot less FTE disputes happening (you also (used to?) see smaller guilds getting more targets. What a shock. Maybe they aren't such "newbs" after all). Now stretch this to over ten raid mobs (naggy, vox, CT, inny, the djinn's in sky, VS, talendor, gore, sev, trak, faydedar, master yael, etc.) all happening within a small time period, and see how often you're going to have guilds disputing FTE claims.

I'm not sure the variance should be removed entirely, but it should definitely be reduced. Pretty much everyone wants it reduced at least a bit. Having to wait 96 hours for the CHANCE at a raid boss is completely unreasonable. It's also not classic.

this sounds absolutely terrible. how in the fuck you guys play on the blue server is beyond me. poopsocking and 300 people handholding killing one raid mob is so stupid, and you guys do it for every fucking encounter lmao. what an awful concept. BURN IT DOWN

[Nagash]

Although not classic that is a good idea. I would leave the variance in though. Why? Simply because once a target is killed at a certain time, you're almost guaranteed to get this taget locked for the people in that time zone and basically screw everyone who isn't. I.e. if a European guild kills VS, that means f... off for everyone who doesn't play on euro time (aussies, US, etc) and likewise the other way round.

Edited for clarification: The boss should all pop at the same time, said timer having a variance attached to it. For example, if the timer is 72h +/- 6h, the bosses would pop between 66h and 78h but all at the same time.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Nagash [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Although not classic that is a good idea. I would leave the variance in though. Why? Simply because once a target is killed at a certain time, you're almost guaranteed to get this taget locked for the people in that time zone and basically screw everyone who isn't. I.e. if a European guild kills VS, that means f... off for everyone who doesn't play on euro time (aussies, US, etc) and likewise the other way round.

I'm pretty sure anyone can kill any thing regardless of what time it is on the other side of the world.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Nagash [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Although not classic that is a good idea. I would leave the variance in though. Why? Simply because once a target is killed at a certain time, you're almost guaranteed to get this taget locked for the people in that time zone and basically screw everyone who isn't. I.e. if a European guild kills VS, that means f... off for everyone who doesn't play on euro time (aussies, US, etc) and likewise the other way round.

So then just make the variance smaller. The windows don't need to be more than 24 hours long for people in different time zones to benefit equally.

[Ele]

#1 Venril Sathir: I was XP'ing on my warrior when VS pop was announced in guild chat. Finished killing my mob (60 seconds), logged into my enchanter who was camped at the entrance to KC, and VS was already dead because TMO had a bunch of people either sitting there or camped out in his prep room. We had a group of people camping the basement with Yendor scanning track like a madman, by the time they got to VS prep he was at 80%.

VS was pure mobilization. We had maybe 2-3 people camped in pit from the night before when they logged in to respond.

[Flunklesnarkin]

I'm not convinced.

Not a huge raider in eq.. actually never done it... but i don't see why camping raid targets should be changed because you dont want to actually spend the time to camp them.


It's simple imo.. if a group of people wants a raid target.. they log on in force and go to a spawn point and wait. Camping is always time consuming but if you really want the gear its worth it.

P99 actually seems to have a nice enforcement of camps thing going... but like i said i haven't raided yet.. idk how well they enforce raid camps or w/e.


Would be lame if one afk ranger could claim a "camp" while a group of people were there waiting for a monster.

[Aunt Bedelia]

Originally Posted by Flunklesnarkin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not convinced.

Not a huge raider in eq.. actually never done it... but i don't see why camping raid targets should be changed because you dont want to actually spend the time to camp them.


It's simple imo.. if a group of people wants a raid target.. they log on in force and go to a spawn point and wait. Camping is always time consuming but if you really want the gear its worth it.

P99 actually seems to have a nice enforcement of camps thing going... but like i said i haven't raided yet.. idk how well they enforce raid camps or w/e.


Would be lame if one afk ranger could claim a "camp" while a group of people were there waiting for a monster.

Looks like you know what you're talking about.