Game Mechanics: Ridiculous Critical Resist Rate for Necromancer Lulls

[Danth]

Nah, by the time you got into grouping you already knew not to use those spells. Long and the short of it was they effectively just didn't work (maybe once in a blue moon) with Harmony being a major (and outdoor-only) exception. Hence why feign pulling and use of enchanters was the norm. I played a Paladin for a good many years, and I well remember both the lull line's uselessness and it's later revamp into overly good functionality--then, as a Paladin, the annoyance of never getting an upgrade to "Pacify."

I can't speak for the Necromancer undead lull spells, but I've no particular memory of them using such spells much.

Danth

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I will look into seeing if necromancers are affected differently than other folks, but fails should be common.

I don't think Necromancers are affected differently. I think they are affected exactly the same, and I wonder if that is accurate. It's not really an effectiveness issue because even with 75% critical resists you can FD and try again which is not an option for an enchanter. It just doesn't really make sense to me that necromancer lull would have charisma based failure, but I didn't post any evidence, just a gut feeling.

On Loraen (with 225ish charisma) I would guess that Lulling a L50 mob I would get about 50% resists (compared to like 5% resists for normal spells) and of those resists about 5% would be critical resists.

I know Xornn says Lull is worthless in his enchanter guide but a) he ran around with 100 cha and b) he didn't have a WC cap in case of an ugly critical resist. IIRC there was a post where someone (Giegue?) posted evidence from ~2000 that Lull worked pretty well but my search foo is sucking tonight and I can't find it.

[kaev]

Maybe the higher level spells in the line could be used successfully if you've got a good option to get out of Dodge, the specific spell Lull has the second issue of not reducing agro range enough for relatively closely spaced mobs. You'd have to be standing 3 steps from the zl.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know Xornn says Lull is worthless in his enchanter guide but a) he ran around with 100 cha

I'm pretty sure all non-bard lulls are CHA based, which means Xornn's advice would be applicable for your necro.

[koros]

Lull was horrible, it's probably too good for enchanters. Didn't "critical resist" come later?

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by koros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lull was horrible, it's probably too good for enchanters. Didn't "critical resist" come later?

No, it was there from the beginning. As Danth said, I learned early with my paladin that it was only useful to pull with. It was more like "critical success" that was the rarity. This did not change until after Velious when it was then usable by everyone. I mean, really useful.

There was a reason there was specific mention from Rich Waters.

Traditionally, most lull spells haven't really worked very well. Lull had a high resist rate and wasn't very reliable. We've recently looked at lulls and improved the way they work to make them more useful to players. You should find that the lull line of spells works more often than it did, though it will still fail some of the time.

It did not work, and it did fail from the beginning. Harmony did work, and too well. Nerfing harmony's absurd usefulness, they made the lull line as a whole work better.

But, I can only say this from personal experience with a paladin, cleric, and enchanter of the time. Those were people I knew irl and grouped with daily. If there was something strange about necromancer lull, I believe it was isolated to necros, which I have no experience with.

Should be researched.

[Nirgon]

We definitely would try to pacify our way through lower guk live side before Kunark, especially the king room. I'd note that we never invised all the way down. There might need to be more see invis creatures down there, or the ones that do, (the frogs at least) should all green aggro.

[koros]

I was agreeing with you about lull not being that useful Nilbog. I was just under the impression that originally a "resist" from lull was the same as a "critical resist" is now, and that if the spell was resisted the mob aggroed. Therefore critical resist was added to make lull more useful, by virtue of the fact that a critical is a somewhat rare event even worse than a normal (non aggro resist).

Am I incorrect? I didn't use lulls that often, but played with classes who had them.

[Treats]

I think koros is right. There shouldn't be a difference between a critical resist and a regular resist on the lull spell line. Any resist should probably cause aggro making the spell line nearly useless (classic).

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Treats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think koros is right. There shouldn't be a difference between a critical resist and a regular resist on the lull spell line. Any resist should probably cause aggro making the spell line nearly useless (classic).

Casters realm from 2000: according to the wayback machine:

http://web.archive.org/web/200105050....asp?SpellID=8

here are three options when you cast Lull on something. 1) It works as advertised. 2) It's resisted and you have to recast. 3) It's resisted and the mob comes after you, as well as all of his buddies. My recommendation for this spell is do *not* depend on this spell to make unwinnable situations winnable. Use it to make winnable situations even easier.

Lull has 2 effects 1) reduce call for/respond to help radius and 2) reduce % for something to help if it does actually receive the call for help. It is resisted the same as any other save vs. magic and 50% of resisted spells result in aggro response. Against high blues/whites this is about a 40% resist and thus a 20% chance of aggro response. It is unwise to try to lull yellow/red cons in a camp with lower cons. Always be prepared for the worst, but it's great for setting up a staggered spawn. This spell can be useful in non-camp situations where there are frequent roving MOBs. Since it reduces the call for help radius, it can cut down on the number of roving MOBs that join the battle. Note that the spell DOES work on undead, but they have HUGE call for help radius' and thus the effect is not as marked. Later spells in the series increase the aformentioned effects.