ASOIAF / Game of Thrones (SPOILERS INSIDE)

[Spyder73]

You are over rating Jon's significance greatly.

The Dragon has 3 heads, so he may be one of them, but Danny is the GOAT of the books and will remain the main character and ultimate victor

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Spyder73 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are over rating Jon's significance greatly.

The Dragon has 3 heads, so he may be one of them, but Danny is the GOAT of the books and will remain the main character and ultimate victor

and i feel you are over rating Dany's significance greatly. i firmly believe that Dany has a much higher probability of not surviving than jon. albeit, should dany die, it would be in a jesus like sacrifice herself to save all of westeros type of thing. the hard reality is that unless Dornish law becomes westeros law, she can not rule, and would have to marry aegon or jon. if Aegon is real (i dont believe he is) then he has the best claim to the throne. after Aegon, Jon would have the best claim to the throne. and after both Aegon, and Jon, then comes Dany's claim. she's third in line (4th if you still count stannis). i see her as the ultimate piece mover, as her actions will dictate so many other people's actions. but lil more than that. i simply do not see her as the Queen of westeros unless Stannis, Aegon, and Jon are dead (unless she marries Jon or Aegon, but then really they would be ruler and i dont think thats what she wants. Dany is crazy. people choose to ignore it because shes hot. but before the show came out, and she was just a dumb 16 year old girl, i think more people had jon pegged as the prince that was promised.

[Spyder73]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and i feel you are over rating Dany's significance greatly. i firmly believe that Dany has a much higher probability of not surviving than jon. albeit, should dany die, it would be in a jesus like sacrifice herself to save all of westeros type of thing. the hard reality is that unless Dornish law becomes westeros law, she can not rule, and would have to marry aegon or jon. if Aegon is real (i dont believe he is) then he has the best claim to the throne. after Aegon, Jon would have the best claim to the throne. and after both Aegon, and Jon, then comes Dany's claim. she's third in line (4th if you still count stannis). i see her as the ultimate piece mover, as her actions will dictate so many other people's actions. but lil more than that. i simply do not see her as the Queen of westeros unless Stannis, Aegon, and Jon are dead (unless she marries Jon or Aegon, but then really they would be ruler and i dont think thats what she wants. Dany is crazy. people choose to ignore it because shes hot. but before the show came out, and she was just a dumb 16 year old girl, i think more people had jon pegged as the prince that was promised.

DISCLAIMER: This got very wall of text very quickly, apologies

Lets examine the facts then. Does Jon Snow fit the prophecy more? or does Danny?

Lets us remember that Maester Agon confirms that high Valeryn has neither masculine or feminine undertones - so while the prophecy is translated as prince, it could be princess as easily as prince. This seems an odd fact to shoe-horn into the book unless there was a POINT to it, does it not?

From the stand point of things making sense, could Danny qualify has hers being "a song of fire and ice"? Well what is a song of fire and ice. From GRRM Fire is love, fire is passion, fire is sexual ardor and all of these things. Ice is betrayal, ice is revenge, ice is… you know, that kind of cold inhumanity and all that stuff is being played out in the books

So from this definition lets examine Danny. Has she loved? Yes, several people in fact. It is a common theme in the book. Sex? Well documented in the books her getting plowed regularly. Passion? Both positive and negative - She was so depressed when her baby and Drogo died that after she was done torturing the witch who killed them she went and jumped into the pyre with them. AHA! She can not be harmed by fire! She fits Fire PERFECTLY.

Ice? Betrayal? First her brother basically sells her as a sex slave to a barbarian horde, then her unborn son was killed to "save" Khal Drogo by a vengeful witch after she finally falls in love with him, She is exiled from the horde with NOTHING but like 5 people, Her captain of the guards then was reporting her activities to the Iron Throne, assassination attempts a plenty, everyone plotting against her constantly...she gets betrayed pretty much at every point where a betrayal is possible, far to many to recant. Revenge? She freed an entire people from slavery, shut down the slave fighting pits, took over half the world already, and killed the woman who essentially murdered her baby and husband.

Oh, SHE HAS 3 MOTHER F#CKING DRAGONS BRO

If Dannys story is not a song of fire and ice then what is? Jon is certainly important and will be revealed as being even more important in the upcoming events of ASOIAF,

But what would be more perfect, more fitting, than Danny taking over the Iron Throne, Jon uniting the North and becoming Lord of Winterfell, and then Danny coming to visit her half brother to make him Hand of the King (or whatever he would be, cousin?). Guess where it would leave us? EXACTLY WHERE WE STARTED WITH ROBERT AND NED, and the cycle continues.

I leave you with GRRM thoughts on people figuring out his plot.

“I want to surprise and delight my reader and take them in directions they didn’t see coming. But I can’t change the plans… So many readers were reading the books with so much attention that they were throwing up some theories and while some of those theories were amusing bulls**t and creative, some of the theories are right. At least one or two readers had put together the extremely subtle and obscure clues that I’d planted in the books and came to the right solution… So what do I do then? Do I change it?! I wrestled with that issue and I came to the conclusion that changing it would be a disaster, because the clues were there. You can’t do that, so I’m just going to go ahead. Some of my readers who don’t read the [online fan] boards, which thankfully there are hundreds of thousands of them, will still be surprised and other readers will say: ‘See, I said that four years ago, I’m smarter than you guys’.”

he is pot committed on Danny - she has come from nothing and is about to ascend to the top of the top - this has been the point of the entire series and people are realizing it now

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Spyder73 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DISCLAIMER: This got very wall of text very quickly, apologies

words

ok lets go one at a time

Lets us remember that Maester Agon confirms that high Valeryn has neither masculine or feminine undertones - so while the prophecy is translated as prince, it could be princess as easily as prince. This seems an odd fact to shoe-horn into the book unless there was a POINT to it, does it not?

i took this as a red herring and nothing more. i believe GRRM has flipflopped quite a few times on how things play out.

From the stand point of things making sense, could Danny qualify has hers being "a song of fire and ice"? Well what is a song of fire and ice. From GRRM Fire is love, fire is passion, fire is sexual ardor and all of these things. Ice is betrayal, ice is revenge, ice is… you know, that kind of cold inhumanity and all that stuff is being played out in the books

does the relationship between R&L not fit this description perfectly? not to mention the extra added flavor of Stark and Targ, Winter & Summer, Snow & Fire. ice is... cold humanity? trying growing up as Neds bastard in Winterfell around Cat.

Ice? Betrayal? First her brother basically sells her as a sex slave to a barbarian horde, then her unborn son was killed to "save" Khal Drogo by a vengeful witch after she finally falls in love with him, She is exiled from the horde with NOTHING but like 5 people, Her captain of the guards then was reporting her activities to the Iron Throne, assassination attempts a plenty, everyone plotting against her constantly...she gets betrayed pretty much at every point where a betrayal is possible, far to many to recant. Revenge? She freed an entire people from slavery, shut down the slave fighting pits, took over half the world already, and killed the woman who essentially murdered her baby and husband.
So from this definition lets examine Danny. Has she loved? Yes, several people in fact. It is a common theme in the book. Sex? Well documented in the books her getting plowed regularly. Passion? Both positive and negative - She was so depressed when her baby and Drogo died that after she was done torturing the witch who killed them she went and jumped into the pyre with them. AHA! She can not be harmed by fire! She fits Fire PERFECTLY.

actually, Dany can be hurt by fire. sure she has a higher tolerance, but im pretty sure Mirri's blood magic is the only reason Dany walked out of that pyre in season1/book1. also, Targs arent fire proof. every single thing you say dany has, i can argue for jon via Ygritte or Arya.

Dany physically owns dragons, but she has no control of them. dragon riders bond with their dragon, no rider can bond with more than 1. which means in all probability Jon will also have a dragon.

again, by westeros law, Dany can not rule legally. GRRM (as you say in your quote) LOVES to surprise and shock readers, and i think that it being so obvious about Dany makes her a red herring. i think shes one of the 3 dragon heads, and possible our sacrificial lamb, and maybe the wife to the king of westeros. but nothing more than that. i dont see Dany sitting the iron throne.

Jon is literally the only character in the story with plot armor.

[AenorVZ]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Before the show came out, and she was just a dumb 16 year old girl, i think more people had jon pegged as the prince that was promised.

I can't believe we just got accused of rethinking ice with our dicks.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by AenorVZ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can't believe we just got accused of rethinking ice with our dicks.

lol, i didnt mean to sound like that at all. i just think that the show has built dany up to seem way more important than i felt the book made her seem. part of me has always felt dany was the ultimate red herring. other parts think she'll give up her own life in a fashion that saves everyone else. i just dont ever see her sitting the iron throne.

one thing the show has done that i dont think was in the book, was showing the throne room of Kings Landing, essentially destroyed by 'winter'. im not saying KL will be ultimately destroyed, but i am saying i could see it. since the dragon has 3 heads, why can't westeros? give dorne, the reach, dragonstone, and the area around KL to Aegon or Dany. north of KL up to the twins (including the eerie, harrenhall, riverlands, westerlands, etc), and every thing north of that to Jon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[wts]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

since the dragon has 3 heads, why can't westeros? give dorne, the reach, dragonstone, and the area around KL to Aegon or Dany. north of KL up to the twins (including the eerie, harrenhall, riverlands, westerlands, etc), and every thing north of that to Jon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You just wrapped that up and put a bow on it. George needs to hire you.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by wts [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You just wrapped that up and put a bow on it. George needs to hire you.

lol. GRRM knows how his story ends. but thats part of the problem i think. its much more exciting to write when the writer is also on the adventure, learning things about the characters, world crafting, and seeing where the story goes.

but after you know the end for the story and the characters, it becomes less fun. because you are no longer creating things, world crafting, or playing god. you are just filling in blanks and planting your ass in a chair and putting words to paper. its no longer an adventure for GRRM to write this story, it has become work. and he doesn't like it.

[AenorVZ]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

it has become work. and he doesn't like it.

Me either.