Not a whine but can we please fix melee?

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by Villert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The fact that you even mentioned live servers and mercs is bad enough. The fact that you can't solo WITH a merc and the mudflated equipment I'm sure you had at that point, pretty much explains your skill in this game. I won't even make a joke about the ranger part...

?? My point here is to say that soloing dark blues has never been easy, especially pre-sod. This is in reference to what some people have said about soloing them. My thought was, "And this is what they're confused about????"

And your other point about not being able to find groups... If people want mages and enchanters and not you, then the game is broke. To be fair, I've heard a few people in these forums say that mages couldn't find groups in classic eq; maybe something -is- broke.

Sorry about pi***** some people off.

Cheers.

[Villert]

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry about pi***** some people off.Cheers.

Sorry if I came on strong with some of my posts, mate. It wasn't my intention to berate you and be an ass.

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

?? My point here is to say that soloing dark blues has never been easy, especially pre-sod. This is in reference to what some people have said about soloing them. My thought was, "And this is what they're confused about????"

Yeah, I wrote most of what I said before I read that you hadn't played on the server yet. Coming from a guy who never played more than a few days into Luclin, (played tons during the trilogy though) I remember what it was like to solo as a melee. And yeah, you're right - it was hard, but it was doable in certain situations and for certain classes.

When you do finally get online here, I think you'll find out exactly what we're talking about. It might not be right away, but get a few levels under a melee and you'll notice somethings not quite right.

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by Villert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry if I came on strong with some of my posts, mate. It wasn't my intention to berate you and be an ass.



Yeah, I wrote most of what I said before I read that you hadn't played on the server yet. Coming from a guy who never played more than a few days into Luclin, (played tons during the trilogy though) I remember what it was like to solo as a melee. And yeah, you're right - it was hard, but it was doable in certain situations and for certain classes.

When you do finally get online here, I think you'll find out exactly what we're talking about. It might not be right away, but get a few levels under a melee and you'll notice somethings not quite right.

Maybe you're right. I'll get the chance to try in a few days.

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by Takshaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So I know this may be beating a dead horse here, but I found something on the old castersrealm comment threads that may be of interest.

This link popped up in the magician bugs thread and it had to do with Magician phantom armor.

Quote is taken from this page:http://web.archive.org/web/20010523050159/eq.castersrealm.com...


This may explain why we are having problems with AC not working correctly? If what this guy is saying is true then your total AC is not just what effects the amount of damage that you take, but AC from agi/defense has an effect on chance to hit and ac from armor/spells affects damage taken. This is figured separately on the server, but you are just given a single number on your inventory screen.


*EDIT: Just incase some of you don't know Abashi was a Verant employee. I think he was in charge of public relations or something like that.

What I don't understand about this is .... is monk ac different than warrior ac?

Wouldn't a monk get damage mitigation if they had the same ac? Do monks just get a large amount of ac from dodge/defense/block skills and agi and very litte from armour? Hard for me to understand this.

Example:

1) Monk gets 75 ac from defense/agi (avoidance)
2) Monk gets 35 ac from equipment (dmg mitigation)

1) Equivalent warrior gets 35ac from defense/agi (avoidance)
2) Equivalent warrior gets 75ac from equipment (dmg mitigation)

(both have 110 ac displayed on the character/inventory window)

It also seems to me that most monks will have less overall ac than a warrior, and even though they'll have higher avoidance, they'll tend to take more damage and be inferior tanks because they have less mitigation. To solve that, they'd have to be twinked to have the same ac, and thusly get the mitigation bonus that'll make them equal to the warrior in defensive tanking. BUT, unless they can also get their hp to the scale that a warrior enjoys, they'll never trully be the tanking equal of a warrior.

I get this sense that monks feel they should avoid almost every blow and defensively tank equally as well as a warrior just because they have a better avoidance ability. Thing is, monks are dps and have always been dps. They're not tanks. I've seen twinked monks tank, but if your main tank is an average equipped monk then you're going to need some extra help. In classic EQ, rangers sometimes tanked, but I don't ever remember monks tanking (sorry to you monks out there). Monks want to be tanks AND dps AND pullers AND what else??

Can't be everyting, sorry monks!

If there's one thing I can think of monks that might help make them feel better... it's that you could probably go without armor longer than most others and still take hits ok. Leather doesn't have very much ac compared to plate. If all this is true, then I'd think that monks are more skill based when it comes to defense. Naked monks! Coincidentally, you can go without weapons and you still do respectable h2h damage. Take a normal (read: non-monk) melee's weapons away, and they're worthless. Don't go over 15wt!

Take this post with a grain of salt. You can even reply to my post and say STFU or "I read it with a grain of salt." That'll make me perfectly happy and I expect a few to react as though I were threatening their life.

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...rch_type=&aq=f

[Takshaka]

I think the idea is that monk AC is not necessarily different from Warrior AC, it is just that Monks tend to have more non-armor based AC and warriors have more armor based AC.

If the post that I found is indeed true, then monks should be getting hit less than warriors and for more damage(on average). However, if you think about it over time a warrior with a higher AC(even of that AC is mostly damage mitigation) should take less damage in the long run even if they are getting hit more often.

Again, if that information is correct and a monk and warrior each get hit 100 times the monk should be taking a heck of a lot more damage than the warrior(even if they had the same AC and assuming that the warrior has a lot of armor based AC). However, out of 100 attacks the monk should actually get hit far less often.

Granted, I am betting that this would be much harder to code into the server and so I do not necessarily expect it to work this way. If they can get a single AC value to at least come close to how it was on live I will be happy.

[Bahleted]

I'm trying to organize a post for those with the knowledge and skill to help resolve the melee issue.

If interested see my post so we can get this off the ground.

This conversation seems to be well saturated in the boards so let's. Turn it into a productive solution
If anyone is interested please see my post.

Thanks for your time and attention ladies and gents

[Bahleted]

I'm trying to organize a post for those with the knowledge and skill to help resolve the melee issue.

If interested see my post so we can get this off the ground.

This conversation seems to be well saturated in the boards so let's. Turn it into a productive solution
If anyone is interested please see my post.

Thanks for your time and attention ladies and gents

[guineapig]

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What I don't understand about this is .... is monk ac different than warrior ac?

Wouldn't a monk get damage mitigation if they had the same ac? Do monks just get a large amount of ac from dodge/defense/block skills and agi and very litte from armour? Hard for me to understand this.

Example:

1) Monk gets 75 ac from defense/agi (avoidance)
2) Monk gets 35 ac from equipment (dmg mitigation)

1) Equivalent warrior gets 35ac from defense/agi (avoidance)
2) Equivalent warrior gets 75ac from equipment (dmg mitigation)

(both have 110 ac displayed on the character/inventory window)

It also seems to me that most monks will have less overall ac than a warrior, and even though they'll have higher avoidance, they'll tend to take more damage and be inferior tanks because they have less mitigation. To solve that, they'd have to be twinked to have the same ac, and thusly get the mitigation bonus that'll make them equal to the warrior in defensive tanking. BUT, unless they can also get their hp to the scale that a warrior enjoys, they'll never trully be the tanking equal of a warrior.

I get this sense that monks feel they should avoid almost every blow and defensively tank equally as well as a warrior just because they have a better avoidance ability. Thing is, monks are dps and have always been dps. They're not tanks. I've seen twinked monks tank, but if your main tank is an average equipped monk then you're going to need some extra help. In classic EQ, rangers sometimes tanked, but I don't ever remember monks tanking (sorry to you monks out there). Monks want to be tanks AND dps AND pullers AND what else??

Can't be everyting, sorry monks!

If there's one thing I can think of monks that might help make them feel better... it's that you could probably go without armor longer than most others and still take hits ok. Leather doesn't have very much ac compared to plate. If all this is true, then I'd think that monks are more skill based when it comes to defense. Naked monks! Coincidentally, you can go without weapons and you still do respectable h2h damage. Take a normal (read: non-monk) melee's weapons away, and they're worthless. Don't go over 15wt!

Take this post with a grain of salt. You can even reply to my post and say STFU or "I read it with a grain of salt." That'll make me perfectly happy and I expect a few to react as though I were threatening their life.

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...rch_type=&aq=f

The soft caps are completely different for the two classes, so supposing that both the monk and the warrior have reached their respective soft caps the same AC would not mean the same thing at all.

Also, you have to take into account defense for mitigation and dodge for avoidance. I'm not sure if the defense caps are the same for the two classes at each level, dodge might not be.


But as you said, AC for a monk should not even be remotely approaching that of a tank class.

[girth]

Monks didn't need armor to tank, we dodged/blocked/riposted enough attacks that if you had a slow'er with you, monks could tank just fine. Once monks started getting Velious gear, it was apparent to most how OP monks were at offtanking, hence the huge nerfs in that era for monks.

[Zarniwooop]

Mobs don't miss.

You can dodge sometimes, but they don't miss you ever.