EQNext Discussion

[Calibix]

Originally Posted by Bantam 1 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah it has multiclassing which IMO blows.... not because its different or new, but because unless its done perfectly or near perfect.... it actually reduces choice and uniqueness of group comp.


If you give me 100 classes, but only 5 or 6 combos of abilities are "viable" then you only really have 5 or 6 classes. The rest are noob traps.

I can agree with most of that. What your describing is Rift basically. It sounded awesome but in practice there were only so many viable builds for PVE. You could be creative with PVP builds though and still be viable.

But like you say, if its done right, it could be great. All we can do is speculate. For example though, from the info I have seen, its not like everyone is going to be max level of all classes, only really hardcore players are going to accomplish that. The example they used is pally and SK. In order to advance as a paladin you have to get in good with the good guys for them to teach you. That prevents you from getting in good with the bad guys who would teach you SK stuff. You would have to fully train as one or the other, then go back switch your faction, and start over fresh as the other.

Furthermore, its being designed as extremely gear dependent game. When they talked about the teleporting rogue for instance, they described a situation where you would teleport, but then not have enough energy/stamina/mana/whatever to backstab unless you had gear that was designed for that type of playstyle. To me, that gives me motivation to play outside of filling an xp bar. Same as it is here when you decide I'm going to go get jboots, gebs, random item x, etc etc. Of course you can't really do that on P99 since the economy is so fucked, but you get the idea.

[Razdeline]

Horizontal progression is the closest thing to UO I have seen, I will be playing it.

[Razdeline]

I loved my GM swords/mage hallywack combo in UO. I liked having a class dedicated to crafting and making kegs of potions, and deadly poisoning my weapons.

[Thunderclasp]

Holy shit the amount of complaints here is high. We get it, it isn't EQ1. Here's a hint, if it's been 14 years since the release of the last game you liked, there won't be a game in the future you'll like.

I get it, I'm here because I played EQ1 from middle school all through high school. It broke my MMO virginity, and it probably can be said for most of the people here that isn't too far off from you. Most of us were young and impressionable. I've also gone back and played Master of Orion, Legend of Zelda, Diablo 1, etc. They were amazing because at the time they were. Now? Now, just the same as EQ is, they're just ways for us to be nostalgic and relive our youth.

I love EQ1, I've spent more days playing this than I'll probably spend doing any other game, but that doesn't mean its a good game. Grinding is awful, spending 4 hours just to make back XP you lost from 1 death is awful. Zoning, raiding, lack of freedom, attacking, etc etc are all bad. Other games have done them better. EQN will do them better.

We are a niche group of maybe 2000-3000 people. EQN is not going to cater to us, they couldn't care less about us. Like it or not, its a money making game. More cartoony graphics brings in more people (but comparing them to EQ1 graphics is still retarded people, come on now), Michael Bay combat brings in more people. What EQN is trying to do is bring in as much people as possible (revenue), while still trying to keep as close to the roots of the Everquest franchise as possible, while still trying to innovate.

I loved the EQN reveal. Better and more lore, facial moldability was a huge plus. Seeing Lavastorm, and the underbelly of Lavastorm, was incredible. Seeing Feerrott's humid swamp/jungle-esque landscape was awesome. The world seems very well done. Graphics was bleh, but more people than not like those graphics, and they're easier to render for video cards, so it's a necessary evil imo. Combat has been cried a lot about, but that was also most likely a max skilled warrior and wizard fighting noob mobs simply to show how actiony combat could look. The combat in the lava pit was spectacular. And heres the most important fact, that footage was from Beta.

Give the game a chance beyond a 50 minute demo a year before release.

[Nogdar]

Originally Posted by myriverse [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I love the "cartoony" complaints, too.

Original EQ = Cartoony. You were just willing enough to suspend disbelief to ignore it. I mean seriously, Ogres looked like Fred freaking Flintstone and Peter Griffin had a love child. Cartoony!

While I'll agree ogres are cartoonish, the world and models overall certainly aren't anywhere near as cartoonish as Tony the Whirlwinding Tiger and stuff - or you haven't been spending enough time in befallen, najena or guk... I think EQ has a touch of diabloish atmosphere in some dungeons that I enjoy, and that you won't find in WoW or EQ Next.

Also to answer a general comment I read a lot, I personally didn't expect EQNext to be EQ1 redone, it's stupid to believe it wouldve been as, as has been said, we are a tiny minority here. It doesn't change that the demos and what they were showing were disappointing to my taste and the game so far doesn't look like something I'll want to play - it's all I said^^

[myriverse]

They are every bit as cartoony as EQNext's Kerran. It's just that your mind isn't as open.

[Nogdar]

maybe you're right but I feel torture instruments and hanged skeletons not to be cartoonish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Roku]

From the panel interview:
"Butler: We don’t expect the need to build 10,000 rifle barrels to become a grandmaster."

Rifle barrels??

I hate you for this WoW ...

Everything else is intriguing enough to wait-n-see.

[raff01]

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dunno wtf tiggles is, I haven't seen him. Been meeting SOE devs though.. texted him a bunch of times and nadda. He pussy out or something?

Tiggles is one of the worst nolifers on P1999

[raff01]

Originally Posted by t0lkien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

EverQuest was/is epic. Nothing about EQN appears or feels epic (with a proviso below). They have gone for technological "advances" without any of the broad unifying sweeps of the original EQ. Notice how no-one cheered at the concept art or flybys until they were asked to do so? It's because we've all seen it before. It's all tight, small, and intensely detailed while looking careful controlled and contrived - just like every other modern console shooter. The style? How much more like Blizzard/Warhammer can everyone go and keep a straight face about it. Really, it's perplexing. Good grief, even the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight games from 10+ years ago felt more epic than this.

The multi-class thing? This was all tried and failed in paper systems before computer games existed. The only game to get it anywhere near right was Daggerfall/Obsidian franchise, and it was/is a *single player game*. Anyone building a new RPG should at least be aware of what has gone before it so it doesn't try to go down all the already disproven dry gullies that looked good initially but didn't work in the end. Class distinction is lost when you can be anything. The gameplay as a result is blurred and unsatisfying. Limitations are what makes great gameplay, not the lack of them. RPGing 101. And anyway, as has been said, everyone will figure out the optimal build and use it. Remember D3's "billions of builds"? Yeah. I'm wondering how many times this lesson has to be learned.

The animation system is nice. I don't mind the touches of Disney in the character facials. But these things do not make a game. We are here playing a 15 year old square-limbed game because it looks great, right? Gameplay. Gameplay is king. That does not mean a Diablo-esque combat system with lots of noise and action, and single player focus. Destructibility - the only way this can work in an MMO is where everything is instanced (so the world doesn't end up a pile of ash within the first day). Goodbye MMO; hello MO.

The usual journalistic sycophantism aside, even the crowd was underwhelmed. It's a mish-mash of secondhand ideas and "cool tech" thrown together. It's a game built around potential "tent pegs" of hyperbole and marketing, and hyped into absurdity before even this small reveal. What they did show was carefully constructed tech demos, nothing more. Lots of it will change before launch as they try to build the thing and find out why certain ideas don't work (again), and when it ships it will be smaller than even this presentation promises. EQN is a business idea before it's a game.

So the writing's on the wall. If anyone is going to make the game many of us are waiting for, it's going to have to come from the indie/kickstarter crowd, because the established companies are now officially out of ideas and out of touch with their roots.

Addendum: Rallying Call and the idea of a minecraft-esque physical depth to the world, along with emergent AI are solid ideas IMO. They will still revolve around set pieces (you'll dig down to discover another encounter piece precisely the same as you have encountered previously, with some level/power changes etc.) It won't be as "emergent" as they are selling it to be, but the procedural aspects of it that they do pull off could be compelling. You lose as much as you gain with this direction, but it has the potential to create a new type of experience i.e. a different type of game. Not better, different.

Don't you still get it? EverQuest was epic to all of us, cause it was 1999 and it was the 1st game of this kind and we were for most, teens. Its like your 1st great love, its a feeling you always try to come back to but somehow just never can.
Sad truth mate is we all grew old and we just don't see MMO's now the way we used to, all stuck deeply in nostalgia acting like it's still year 2000 and Kunark was just released...
EQ Next is as epic as a MMO can get, you just don't see it. If you were 15 right now and hadn't ever known either EQ, EQ2 or WoW, playing EQN for the 1st time would be forever a fond memory and you'd be looking for it all your life.