history lesson/faq

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by Wonton [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

this isn't true.. so



this isn't true either, so stfu. when you lie does the number 95 come into your mind?

Where is the lie in all of that?

I distinctly remember agreeing with Karsten and Jify, You, and Co. that having 24 hours to kill a mob from engagement is completely wtf retarded.

And I certainly remember talking to you and us coming to the agreement that my enjoyment comes from leaving smiles behind me when possible and yours comes from competition, server firsts, and getting things that others don't have.

What am I missing here?

[Wonton]

a screen shot?

[Dartagnan]

Um, this SolA argument is a bunch of poo. News flash, the SolA experience that is in today is the same as it was before the changes.

To say we somehow took advantage of this is a distortion. It's not our fault if the ZEM was done the way it is or even if it is incorrect. You make it sound like we are somehow deviant by doing this when people can lvl all the way up to 48 (unlike 50 as you portray it as) right now if they wanted. I am sorry but I will XP where I want to. I am not less of a person for choosing where I want to level up.

That is not "artificially grabbing power" either. It was legitimate.

Anyways, you mention in your post that I say that I feel entitled to things. I do not feel entitled and that is a distortion, a twisting of things I said.

As it stands right now, the rotation system takes away the achievements of those who hit the raid encounters first. I'm sorry but I grew up with the idea that achievement means something. It's not taken away because others achieved less.

Any group of people could seriously jeopardize IB's advantage if they were committed to doing so. Just because they are not able to doesn't mean Trans or anyone launch a coup on IB.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by Wonton [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

a screen shot?

You want a screen shot to prove that I agree with you on 24-hour claims and rotations? /boggle.

Do you want a receipt for each HQ pelt I sold you on an alt, too? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Dartagnan]

Yes, with dates plz.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by Dartagnan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Um, this SolA argument is a bunch of poo. News flash, the SolA experience that is in today is the same as it was before the changes.

Lol news flash, no it isn't. SolA was one of the first zones with a pumped up ZEM because it was a completely tumbleweed filled wasteland on live, but it sure as heck wasn't good xp at launch. If people wanted to fight healers and casters en masse, at least in Cazic Thule they had a whack at rubicite. This was actually one of the reasons that rubicite got yanked, because zones like SolA/Paw/Mistmoore/Perma were under-utilizeds and there was waiting lists for each section of CT.

To say we somehow took advantage of this is a distortion. It's not our fault if the ZEM was done the way it is or even if it is incorrect. You make it sound like we are somehow deviant by doing this when people can lvl all the way up to 48 (unlike 50 as you portray it as) right now if they wanted. I am sorry but I will XP where I want to. I am not less of a person for choosing where I want to level up.

That is not "artificially grabbing power" either. It was legitimate.

Stop taking everything I say as a personal attack. I was just illustrating how I've had somthing remotely similar happen to me and ppl i used to run with, too. Seriously, the server doesn't revolve around IB. People from all corners of the server were chugging along in SolA. Lord knows I ressed enough of them.

I'm not saying you are deviant for levelling up in SolA..But i'm not going to stand around and nod my head when the picture gets illustrated that you guys were embracing the hardest content and being uber from day one. You got to the top, and are at the top... congratulations. But the idea that everyone else was slothing around and drooling while you guys were 'grinding away' is silly. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]You want us to give you credit, that's fine. Give some back in return.

As it stands right now, the rotation system takes away the achievements of those who hit the raid encounters first. I'm sorry but I grew up with the idea that achievement means something. It's not taken away because others achieved less.

Any group of people could seriously jeopardize IB's advantage if they were committed to doing so. Just because they are not able to doesn't mean Trans or anyone launch a coup on IB.

The rotation system is the easiest system for the GMs to track and enforce and requires the least of their involvement. Just about any other system gets them far more involved than they'd like. That's the real bottleneck.

Does it make rotation the fairest solution? The best solution? The solution that rewards those who spend the extra hour or two a day playing?

Nope, it sure doesn't. But eventually you'll have to face facts: The powers that be are much more interested in being less involved and getting to play more/hit their real workload than standing around and handing you #1 lollipops in some form of hands-on score carding.

That's the way it shakes out. You and Hasbin have pounded out some pretty interesting alternatives to rotation that make sense and have merit. But none of it is as easy to keep a handle on from the GM perspective as "Trans is killing Nag this week, IB's got vox and IB's got fear"... It's painfully easy to figure out who killed what mob and make sure the rotation is sticking than anything of the other alternatives we've seen.

And on the surface that hurts IB a lot more than Transcendence and whatever other guild is coming up the pike, correct. And yes, Transcendence at this point has little to nothing to gain to come up with an alternative to a rotation. And yes, if everyone was a bit more civil on this server, it probably never would have come to this. Its just gonna be a big mess until there is less guilds (not likely) or more raid targets (eventually). Nothing is more classic 1999 EQ uberguild experience than having both dragons dead and Fear cleared the same night as the patch, and then standing around for 6 days on alts bitching about how some gimp guild was farming your Fear repops. Consider Phinny even being available and itemized an added bonus at this point of the progression. /shrug.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by Dartagnan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, with dates plz.

There's at least a half dozen members of your guild that can login to the forums right now and post that I've laughed with them that 24 hours from first engage to kill a raid target is insane an that rotation is a pretty unpopular band-aid to slap on a festering wound that won't erase any of the hurt.

Unfortunately, they are all busy playing the game and having fun. But believe me, if any of them want to log in and quote my post and say "Bubbles said that" I'll respond "yes i did".

And I do believe that.

It's a lot easier to complain about a current solution than to draft a working one that all parties will agree to. IB can sit around all day and draft solutions that will make them happy, Trans can draft solutions that makes Trans happy, and the GMs will continue to strive to figure out a solution that's fair enough to keep the server going and them as uninvolved as possible, regardless of who's happy.

As for Wonton, I find it hard to believe you don't remember telling me that your favorite part of EQ is the competition and getting items/kills that others don't have... last week in /tells.. If it wasn't you driving Wonton at the time, then I apologize. But i obviously don't have a screen shot cuz i didn't envision that conversation being all that important or note-worthy (and I still dont).

So if you want to go on the record saying you are against competition and wish everyone had the ability to experience every item and kill, then that's fine with me. That's always been personal view on EQ, anyways. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Dartagnan]

I'm not talking about live Bubbles. SolA experience was the same before and after the patch on this server. If you have a problem with SolA, then take it up with the GMs that made the ZEM, not the players (who I might add were not only IB) who leveled there.

This SolA argument keeps getting resurrected and used as an argument against IB. That's bogus.

Furthermore, the GMs have stated they do not want rotation. So they have an active interest in getting a solution here. Yet I do not see Transcendence coming up to the plate proposing anything here.

When you do rotation, the system says to IB screw you guys, your advantage means nothing now. The system says to Transcendence, enjoy the party, you get treats.

IMO who is being selfish here? Hasbin, Nizzarr and I have proposed systems that are compromises. You guys want to hold to hold onto a system that the GMs do not want. Of course you do because your value went up with this system compared to before. So instead of compromising and coming to an agreement, you are going to wedge yourselves as much as you can with the system that IB NOR GMs want. Yet we are called the selfish ones. I just find that interesting. I think IB realizes there needs to be compromise, but it does not lie in rotation, imo. Even if it did, it does NOT lie in the system we currently have. Yet I do not see Transcendence reaching out at all.

[Dartagnan]

Originally Posted by Bubbles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's at least a half dozen members of your guild that can login to the forums right now and post that I've laughed with them that 24 hours from first engage to kill a raid target is insane an that rotation is a pretty unpopular band-aid to slap on a festering wound that won't erase any of the hurt.

Unfortunately, they are all busy playing the game and having fun. But believe me, if any of them want to log in and quote my post and say "Bubbles said that" I'll respond "yes i did".

And I do believe that.

It's a lot easier to complain about a current solution than to draft a working one that all parties will agree to. IB can sit around all day and draft solutions that will make them happy, Trans can draft solutions that makes Trans happy, and the GMs will continue to strive to figure out a solution that's fair enough to keep the server going and them as uninvolved as possible, regardless of who's happy.

As for Wonton, I find it hard to believe you don't remember telling me that your favorite part of EQ is the competition and getting items/kills that others don't have... last week in /tells.. If it wasn't you driving Wonton at the time, then I apologize. But i obviously don't have a screen shot cuz i didn't envision that conversation being all that important or note-worthy (and I still dont).

So if you want to go on the record saying you are against competition and wish everyone had the ability to experience every item and kill, then that's fine with me. That's always been personal view on EQ, anyways. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This comment of mine was a joke.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Bubbles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Give some back in return.

Originally Posted by Bubbles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And yes, if everyone was a bit more civil on this server, it probably never would have come to this.

Ok, put on the brakes a second Bubbles. I know you mentioned that you have tried to stay out of this, and I am going to give you credit for that when others may not because I remember what exactly you are talking about. You are specifically referring, I believe, to the weeks previous to Trans attempting Nagafen for the first time. The weeks in which there was a daily barrage of baseless rumors, confused rage, accusations of GM favoritism, accusation of all forms of cheats, hatred based on failure to succeed, and outright lies perpetrated by Transcendence. Now, I know the tin foil hat has decided to walk a mile in our guild to a certain extent, but don't sit here and act like IB doesn't have a very good reason to be a bit aloof in our appraisal of anything your crew has to say.