Leapfrogging

[guineapig]

Originally Posted by Tork [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You beg the question everyone wants poopsocking removed, which I know not to be true - viva la rants and flames~

The only people that I can imagine wouldn't want to do away with poopsocking are the ones that are afraid that it's the only way for them to get a raid target. In other words Poopsockers are afraid of actual competition and prefer to just stand in line.

As stated before:

We have a plan in place that we are announcing shortly that will deal with mobs that haven't spawned yet.

Looking forward to it and am interested in how things will progress with said changes. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Supreme]

I remember there was a incident on Solusek Ro where the guilds involved could not work out a solution.

GM stepped in and stated that everyone present was part of the raid and the loot had to be shared among all guilds present.

Shared Loot...gann.

[Jael]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Being from Xegony, it is not that it didn't happen, but there were very few times that GMs would intervene. Leapfrogging was never one of them. As there got to be fewer GMs around, having one intervene was even more difficult.

But back on topic ... I have never seen any intervention due to leapfrogging.

Haynar

If you're one of Xegony's unwanted Gits, then you know how it was handled already. The first powerful guild ran everything and everyone, and took what they wanted when they wanted... until there was another guild (then 2 guilds then 3 etc) that became strong enough to not be pushed around.

Only when that happened were alliances formed, and things worked out among the guilds themselves.

The ONLY time a GM intervened was in Sleeper's Tomb, and both guilds got kicked out of the zone, however neither were suspended or banned and the guild that attacked first got to keep their loots.

*shrug*


However, now I have a fascination with who you were on Xegony. Hit me with a PM, if you would be so kind. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[azeth]

I'm interested if those of you who have "not seen GM intervention due to leapfrogging" are in agreement with that non-policy?

Consider a guild has a mage parked in NToV for COH. You and your guild drop Aary and pull the left wall drakes. What if that guild opens the mage and starts bringing people in ahead of you? Do you agree still the best policy is no policy?

^ I am not agreeing/disagreeing with either PoV.

[logiktrip]

Letting the players work it out is preferable, but the major difference was that on live servers people and guilds cared about their reputation to a different degree than they do here.

For example, two guilds on Terris-Thule were barred from entering Ssra for 24hours after a similar incident. The GM's made it clear they weren't going to deal with it, so we were forced to work alongside one another for the benefit of both guilds (we didn't want removed from our primary targets again.)

Things weren't all roses and we still bumped heads, but there was a working relationship that developed. I'm not sure that this is viable on a server with so little raid content while also having so many people ready to raid, but it would be nice.

[Serin]

The only times i ever saw GM intervention on my server was during kunark and luclin era.. Basically certain mobs were free for all targets, and certain mobs were "whoever gets there first with the most people"..

One time i remember in particular, was that a guild that was notorious for zerging would call in their entire guild (level 1-60) and have them all sit in a zone in order to lag the zone server so bad that it would prevent anyone from engaging the boss mob. (They actually brought down the zone servers several times)

When that happened the GMs stepped in and set up a forced rotation, because no agreement could be made between the guilds..

However, the other case was free for all targets..
Once the GMs got fed up enough with actually trying to mediate between guild conflicts.. They declared certain spawns "Too Contested" to be rotated. Things like Venril Sathir fell under this rule, as did Avatar of War, and King Tormax.. (basically mini-bosses) Those mobs would effectively become huge clusterfucks where every guild would run in and engage immediately and try to out damage everyone else.. It made it chaotic to say the least, but also made it quite random as to who actually "won" the loot..

That being said, Sure there were some people who would QQ cause they didn't get king tormax's head.. or whatever piece of loot they wanted.. but it made it very fair.. cause whoever could do the most damage won..

All in all, the gms didn't do much in the cat herding business.. They mainly stuck to what they were good at.. Fixing problems.. and let the uber-guilds sort out their own rotations..

[Oogmog]

I think what people are failing to realize, things were handled different on every server. Those who claim there was never GM intervention may have been on a server where this was true and others saying forced rotations/guidelines were presented to them could be true as well. I've skimmed through a lot of these forums, however, on my server we were forced into rotations just because the GMs who worked our server got sick of dealing with our crap.

We were forced to work out a rotation on VS and Trak after many problems/attempted KS's/leapfrogging/training.

In Velious, this is how things went down:
First guild to kill the rat guard in DN had rights to Zland(Until a wipe).
First guild to kill trash to Ikitair the Venom could not be leapfrogged unless they wiped and the first guild to kill roy had 24 hours from the time of his death to have NToV with no competition.
First guild to kill the first giant in the arena(Was a particular spawn, couldn't remember his name) could claim Vindicator/Statue/AoW.
Whoever was pulling and attempting to split Dain had his rights.
Yelinak was pretty much a first engage and it was yours since there was no trash(Mage CoH).
Whichever guild began clearing Tormax's area had his claim.

These rules for Velious were set in place after a Tormax raid where my guild was set up and pulling Tormax to WL zone line and our only rivals guild started zoning in and attempting to botch our pulls. After about an hour of the monks training each other, a GM showed up and asked which guild was there with a force first and began pulling.. it was our guild, so we had the chance on him first and if we wiped the other guild could claim it. Unfortunately, we were low on numbers and they ate our mod rods(right in front of the GM and nothing was done haha) and we wiped and it was theirs. Following the raid, the GM sat down with the two guild leader and created a system for every contested mob during the expansion.

So pretty much in Velious it's easy to have a fix for leapfrogging because on many occasions the trash itself requires a raid force to get through, or the dungeon is completely linear and you can assign a mob to claim the named. With Classic/Kunark, you can clear with a single group or 10 people or whatever. IMO, the only fair way to fix this is designate a set number of people actually clearing trash. Take for example, a group of 6 is clearing Shrooms etc on the way to Trakanon - by all means they can clear, set up a CoH chain if they wish, whatever. If a raid of 24 shows up, the group with 6 cannot delay them because they were there "first." In that instance it's not really leapfrogging but one guild trying to stall.

I'm not sure if this has been stated or not, and I apologize if so, but there's one underlying cause for this shitstorm that we're dealing with and its the fact that on any "normal" live server, there was maybe 2-3 guilds top competing over the planes/gods/dragons. Right now, I would say there are probably 6-7 guilds capable of downing those targets. While we're trying to relive the classic experience, there's never been a time where guilds would camp for days on end just for one single pop. Furthermore, on every server on live I've been a part of, if there was a guild in hate/fear/sky, it was just a general rule of thumb it was their zone and if CT/Inny/Dracho/Maestro popped while you were there it was your lucky day. Here, there's too many guilds competing for the armor drops for that to be an option.

[Kastro]

Another Solution would be to just enable PVP in all Raid/ Planar Zones [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]