#31
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I began working for my company a little over a year ago, and they require that I carry health insurance as part of the terms of my employment. It's only around $56 a month, but were it elective, being under 30 and in relatively decent health I probably would not have opted in. This past february I messed my knee up pretty bad, and ended up with a patella sublexation. That night I went to the ER and had an x-ray. Were I not insured that would have wound up costing me $900. Later that week I went to an ortho and he had me get an MRI. I honestly don't even remember what that cost, but I think ballparking it around $1500 is more than fair. After that I went through 2 months of Physical therapy. Out of pocket that would have cost me $1900, my insurance covers 90% of PT costs, I payed $94. The MRI I paid a $600 deductible for. The ER visit ended up costing me about $300. All told this cost me under a grand. Without insurance I would have been looking at about $4,500-$5,000. I also pay around $4 a month for dental insurance that offers a max coverage of $1,000 per year, and I've used that for a year. In the last year and a half I've gotten ~$6,000 worth of medical expenses taken care of for $1500 + ~$60 a month for 18 months. Now obviously my plans aren't terrible, and my employer covers a good chunk of the monthly costs.. but my injury was nowhere near "catastrophic" and aside from my dental (I really let my teeth go throughout college), being young and healthy absolutely none of this was expected. Without insurance it would have sucked. A lot. I can't even imagine what a large injury, or even something more common such as a pregnancy would wind up costing somebody who was uninsured. I don't relay the story to say "Obama care is awesome!" but rather to point out that for every story like yours, there are probably a pretty decent amount that are just like mine. I'm the same as you with my car insurance. I live in a state that does not require it, however I've paid in my entire driving-aged life because if I hit somebody I sure as fuck don't want to be sued for an insane amount of money. I'm not entirely sure I agree with saying that the amount our employers end up paying in to our insurances would wind up in our paychecks. It would be nice, but there is just no way that I believe I would see much, if any of that money as direct-pay compensation. Anyway, I'm off-topic, and rambling, but just wanted to say, that for everyone that pays in and doesn't use it, there are those that do. Personally, I don't think it's worth the gamble, even at a young age. That's at least kind of why I enjoy the notion of those that are going to gamble paying SOMETHING into the system regardless on the off chance that something terrible does happen to 1/10000 that do and the rest of us get stuck with the costs. | |||
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#33
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#34
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That being said. I can see how this could maybe be potentially helpful to middle class or lower middle class people. In fact I'm all for taking money out of the NSA's pockets and giving it to Not for Profit hospitals to take care of the underprivileged. =) How much might 10 billion out of 53.4 billion do? I wager quite a bit without further burdening the lower classes. It would also allow for many more jobs for doctors and nurses. Perhaps we could you know give out a few tuitions for people who want to work in those places? I dunno =) I don't think disliking the current legislation is racist. | |||
Last edited by runlvlzero; 09-26-2013 at 11:44 PM..
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#35
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Also, keep in mind that I could afford a $5k injury like yours every 18 months or so and still only break even with my insurance. It's pretty insane really. I know there are a lot of people who like to go to the doctors office for every little issue, and that's fine. I just shouldn't have to subsidize these peoples' hypochondria. As for the employer compensation part.. Any employer looks at the total cost of employing someone, and that includes the health care portion. If you removed all employer health care tomorrow, employers would suddenly have a windfall of extra profits. If you think this would just go on forever, you don't know the first thing about business. People would begin to demand more actual compensation, and this would lead to much more room to poach talented individuals and compensation would rise until it's near where it is it with the health care included. There are probably better ways (other than a sudden 100% shift to no employer based insurance) to make sure this process is as smooth as possible. Also, you should understand just where the marriage of employment and health insurance began. It started in WW2 when FDR had placed various wage controls on industry. Industry then began to offer health insurance as a backdoor compensation, and they eventually got this written off on their taxes as well. | |||
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#36
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I mean, I don't want to pay extra for pregnancy covereage or shit I don't need either. Nobody does, but that's just the way it is. You don't get to pick and choose every little thing you want in your coverage. If you could it would probably be even more expensive. Again, I disagree with the hidden cost factor, because I highly doubt someone like you or I would see much of what our employers are currently paying wind up in our direct compensation if they didn't have to pay it. | |||
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#37
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http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/...countries.html http://www.forbes.com/sites/carolynm...e-big-picture/ Quote:
Companies are greedy. Employees ALWAYS want more compensation. As you mentioned, if they were to stop contributing to employee health plans, the company would instantly have much more profits. The only thing that would make those companies interested in putting that money into direct compensation for their employees would be to stay competitive when recruiting talent (you mentioned this also). I don't think there is any reason to assume that this would be the case. All of the companies in the industry already have a good amount of talent. The proverbial "line" regarding compensation has already been drawn. The benchmark is there. One company may use some of it's new profits to raise it slightly, but there is no way that they are going to use 100% of their new saved money to directly compensate employees in an attempt to get more talent. A slight raise (2%-5%) industry wide would still not account for nearly what the employer was paying in the first place to cover their employees. | ||||
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#38
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I don't know about you guys but I'm fucking STOKED for this shit.
I've had type 1 diabetes for 24 years now and the shit it's done to my savings account is ridiculous. I have to maintain health insurance even if it doesn't do anything for me so that I can keep a certificate of credible insurability which would guarantee that going forward I wouldn't be denied coverage due to my pre-existing condition. Most (read: 99%) of plans don't cover anything that I need and the ones that do are split between both prescription insurance and health insurance due to diabetic supplies being a medical supply and insulin being a medication. So that's two things that sap my income without providing any benefit. All in all my monthly expenses are about $300 for insulin, $100 for strips, $75 for syringes and pen needles. That's almost $500 a month and that's the BARE necessity of what I need. That is essentially a second apartment lease and that's just to survive. The affordable care act is pretty much a dream come true if I understand it correctly.
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Millburn Pennybags - Blue Palmer Eldritch - Teal | ||
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#39
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"that's just the way it is" lol... That's exactly my point. It's not that way because of some underlying economic reason. It's that way because the government mandates it, and has for quite a while. We force people who are in groups that use the health system less to subsidize those who use it more. Clearly it's wrong on moral grounds, but it's also fucked up on utilitarian grounds. I mean, we're basically encouraging people to be unhealthy. And if you think we wouldn't get all or most of the hidden costs that our employers pay in the form of compensation, you're wrong. Economists from pretty much every diverse school of thought would agree on this. I bet you also think the minimum wage is the only reason we're not all being paid 5 cents an hour? | |||
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#40
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Last edited by Orruar; 09-27-2013 at 11:37 AM..
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