Sakuragi's Warrior Guide

[Metallikus]

also when you parse warriors, you need to distinguish between ogre parses and everyone else.

ogres don't get bashed and kick stunned from the front so they don't lose .2 sec for each and overtime during a fight that adds up when take into consideration you miss your own kick/disarm/taunt opportunities and during the time you are stunned you do not mitigate as well as when you aren't stunned.

POSITIONING MOBS is also important for tanks: if you are constantly being bashed and kick stunned, you cant put the mob where you want, when you want to.

Also, you don't mention agility as much as you should, which increases the ability to mitigate more damage than most common folk imagine.

[Droog007]

Originally Posted by baalzy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A solid response for which I am thankful

That looks good on paper, and I'm not going to argue against it ... but I guess the reason I thought 2Hers had legs in the threat race is because they are often used when warriors are just wanting to max DPS (Staff of Battle gets a lot of use here, if I'm not mistaken).

So, given that DPS is similar (or even greater) while variance is greater (if you hit for max damage on every swing with a 2Her would it not vastly out-damage 100% accuracy/damage with 2 1Hers?), it just seems like the potential damage would be far larger.

And it's potential damage (even when you miss) that counts. Actual damage is just icing on the cake. You would just have to make up for the ~50ish% more procs (which is saying a lot, I realize).

[Splorf22]

The problem with 2H is that for some reason its melee threat is penalized by about 2/3. I have no idea way, and I posted a bug thread about it, and like every single one of my game mechanics bug threads it has been totally ignored by the developers. Do not use 2H as a warrior. http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=88535

Metallikus I did the math on ogres on the wiki page, which suggests the difference ends up being a few %. That being said, I've never played an ogre warrior so <shrug>

[Spitty]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That being said, I've never played an ogre warrior so <shrug>

THEN HOW ARE YOU OVERTRAINED?!?!

You need to be...wait for it...OGRE TRAINED.

[ctechguy]

You are asking for feedback, so here it goes....

I stopped reading before I made it through the first section, "Word of Warning". Seeing paladins and raids discussed in detail in paragraph 1 was tough, and I was done by paragraph 3 or 4. I did briefly skim down through the rest of the page.

While it was clear you have put a lot of thought and effort into the "guide", it seemed very inaccessible to me as a novice (about certain topics), and by quick initial scan, kind of skimpy on the philosophy of warrior class choice, how to get started and the life of a lowbie to mid-level warrior.

I played live from 1999 to 2003-ish on Quellious, and was the guild leader of Magi Discordia. I never went past 35th level during my time in the game. And the time I spent on the game was devoted to our guild (recruiting, crafting and assisting with gear for our newer members), holding buffing and assistance events at different zones on occasion, farming steins of moggok (50+ times or so :P), and occasionally grouping with a small, select handful of friends.

True "raiding" was never part of my experience during the live days, nor was I ever very interested in discussing the finer points of certain game mechanics and other minutiae. I realize not everyone is like me, and that people's tastes vary accordingly.

Perhaps my perspective is in the minority these days, but if I was new to P99 and came to the page to learn about being a warrior, I would probably find another resource.

To the elite, the initiated and those in the know, I'm sure it's very useful. But to those who already raid, I'm going to guess they already have most of if not all of this information already.

That being said, this is a far greater effort to contribute than I have exercised during my short time here, 4 weeks or so. And it is clear you have a lot of knowledge and have placed a great deal of effort into this page, and care about it's quality and content, as you have asked for feedback.

My suggestions would be to consider reorganizing the flow of some of the information, and providing more detail and attention to getting started and surviving in the Classic world, as a warrior, and all of the options that come along with it.

During my live playing days, one of my closest friends and highest level player I knew was a warrior. He was a great brewer and smith, among many other things, and when I thought of him, I thought of master trade skills, cultural armor, and such.

Thanks for the opportunity to provide some feedback, best of luck with your endeavor!

[Elements]

I'd be interested to know if the evasion disc applied to a warrior while stunned. Basically any non-ogre warrior opens themselves up to a larger degree of RNG splat.

[Efwan]

Originally Posted by ctechguy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are asking for feedback, so here it goes....

I stopped reading before I made it through the first section, "Word of Warning". Seeing paladins and raids discussed in detail in paragraph 1 was tough, and I was done by paragraph 3 or 4. I did briefly skim down through the rest of the page.

While it was clear you have put a lot of thought and effort into the "guide", it seemed very inaccessible to me as a novice (about certain topics), and by quick initial scan, kind of skimpy on the philosophy of warrior class choice, how to get started and the life of a lowbie to mid-level warrior.

I played live from 1999 to 2003-ish on Quellious, and was the guild leader of Magi Discordia. I never went past 35th level during my time in the game. And the time I spent on the game was devoted to our guild (recruiting, crafting and assisting with gear for our newer members), holding buffing and assistance events at different zones on occasion, farming steins of moggok (50+ times or so :P), and occasionally grouping with a small, select handful of friends.

True "raiding" was never part of my experience during the live days, nor was I ever very interested in discussing the finer points of certain game mechanics and other minutiae. I realize not everyone is like me, and that people's tastes vary accordingly.

Perhaps my perspective is in the minority these days, but if I was new to P99 and came to the page to learn about being a warrior, I would probably find another resource.

To the elite, the initiated and those in the know, I'm sure it's very useful. But to those who already raid, I'm going to guess they already have most of if not all of this information already.

That being said, this is a far greater effort to contribute than I have exercised during my short time here, 4 weeks or so. And it is clear you have a lot of knowledge and have placed a great deal of effort into this page, and care about it's quality and content, as you have asked for feedback.

My suggestions would be to consider reorganizing the flow of some of the information, and providing more detail and attention to getting started and surviving in the Classic world, as a warrior, and all of the options that come along with it.

During my live playing days, one of my closest friends and highest level player I knew was a warrior. He was a great brewer and smith, among many other things, and when I thought of him, I thought of master trade skills, cultural armor, and such.

Thanks for the opportunity to provide some feedback, best of luck with your endeavor!

I'm sure Sakuragi will probably have more of a political answer to this feedback, but I'd like to kind of point out something from playing many warriors from 99-present. Warriors do not become real warriors until 40ish. To be honest classic warriors were shafted aggro skills until that level. The life of a low-mid level warrior can be tough, yes you will be able to take more damage than anyone, but it's up to your group to learn how to not draw aggro off of you. Good warriors can, however, basically teach dps and healers how to master this. For instance, I personally would tell my groups not to attack until told to do so (normally after I've done some hitting, 90-95%, depending on the mob) and the same went for the raids I tanked/led. Obviously raid mobs wouldn't go down 5% quickly, thus raid would attack at 98 or so, but back in the day taunt worked a bit differently than people see now, but I won't go into all that.

[DrKvothe]

Originally Posted by Efwan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The life of a low-mid level warrior can be tough, yes you will be able to take more damage than anyone, but it's up to your group to learn how to not draw aggro off of you. Good warriors can, however, basically teach dps and healers how to master this. For instance, I personally would tell my groups not to attack until told to do so (normally after I've done some hitting, 90-95%, depending on the mob)

That's 10% of mob hp done solely by you. During that 10%, you're taking 3-4x hits (mob's not slowed) and the mob's hp is dropping 3-4x slower than it would if dps were going nuts. So in that 10% hp you could take as much damage as you will for the next 90%. If mobs are cc'd before you engage, when cc breaks they'll go running right to the enchanter or shaman (if they're slowed). That's extra mana and hp spent scrambling to get things under control. SK and pally can grab and keep aggro on each mob much quicker. DPS and CC and debuffers can just go nuts almost immediately.

You could have mobs rooted, but if your rooter is a bit too low level or if a mob is unusually magic resistant, that costs a huge amount of mana to maintain. Maybe it'd be more fair if sk and pally spells had to actually land to do threat, but as it stands their method for getting and maintaining aggro is much more robust to the various situations leveling groups are going to find themselves in.

This isn't classic, where mobs took 4x as long to kill. Your lowbie leveling group might have multiple epics, and will at least have weapons from a 50+ dungeon. A group's willingness to keep an epic monk or rogue waiting is a lot lower here.

As a low 50s shaman, I really enjoy hybrid tanks. The exp cost sucks, but I bet a 58 or 59 warrior takes more exp (or at least comparable exp) from the group than a 52-53 SK/pally.

[Efwan]

Originally Posted by DrKvothe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's 10% of mob hp done solely by you. During that 10%, you're taking 3-4x hits (mob's not slowed) and the mob's hp is dropping 3-4x slower than it would if dps were going nuts. So in that 10% hp you could take as much damage as you will for the next 90%. If mobs are cc'd before you engage, when cc breaks they'll go running right to the enchanter or shaman (if they're slowed). That's extra mana and hp spent scrambling to get things under control. SK and pally can grab and keep aggro on each mob much quicker. DPS and CC and debuffers can just go nuts almost immediately.

You could have mobs rooted, but if your rooter is a bit too low level or if a mob is unusually magic resistant, that costs a huge amount of mana to maintain. Maybe it'd be more fair if sk and pally spells had to actually land to do threat, but as it stands their method for getting and maintaining aggro is much more robust to the various situations leveling groups are going to find themselves in.

This isn't classic, where mobs took 4x as long to kill. Your lowbie leveling group might have multiple epics, and will at least have weapons from a 50+ dungeon. A group's willingness to keep an epic monk or rogue waiting is a lot lower here.

As a low 50s shaman, I really enjoy hybrid tanks. The exp cost sucks, but I bet a 58 or 59 warrior takes more exp (or at least comparable exp) from the group than a 52-53 SK/pally.

You're SK/Pallys grab aggro debate is worth little to none here, as people are looking at a Warrior guide. I would never argue warriors can hold their own aggro wise vs a pal/sk until their 50s, and even then a good sk/pal could still grab it if they really want it.

[DrKvothe]

I'm just saying there's a reason groups balk at being told to wait for 10% of a mob's hp. It doesn't sound like much, but it could extend kill times by a third if the warrior's dps is bad or the dps's dps is good.