Alright, IB, Dozekar and Blackwater, knock it off

[Dominick]

Originally Posted by Ezalor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm talking about your previous post, where you stated that allegations of misconduct against Blackwater are necessarily false, precisely because Blackwater has yet to be held liable for any misconduct by the United States government's executive branch.

There are not new, when Obama took office, he would have been briefed. There has been three (two and one coming up) annual contract reviews that he or his administration could have acted on and killed the funding.

He could have made a speech that Blackwater was a mean icky poo company, but not a peep. He can call conservatives names in a speech but he can't address such an injustice that you claim happened?

I appeal to the logic that a purportedly "progressive" "hope and change" administration would not reward people who rape service people and murder innocent civilians by paying them on a fat contract. I am not talking about liability, as in a suit or charges. I am talking about cancelling an "at will" services contract, that the government can cancel in a half hour after deciding to cancel it.

The contracts with these and other security firms are written so that if you don't need them, you send them home. There are hundreds of these firms in theater, ready to work, and able to be paid. They could replace the Blackwater people with new people for liberal political groups to make allegations against.

Its like you discover your yard workers are beating your neighbors puppy. You go outside and fire them, you don't have to keep them, unless you discover the allegation was unable to be proven.

His administration can recall eggs because a few people got a stomach ache from salmonella. His administration can try to ban drilling across a whole seabed, because one well went horribly bad. He can apologize about the United States being such a bad player internationally.

He didn't do any of those things I would expect a sane administration to be able to do. He actually awarded Blackwater a new contract, and that has thrown a lot of doubt on the claims they are an army of rapists and murderers.

http://tinyurl.com/2d4segh

Originally Posted by Ezalor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you seriously that daft? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you seriously think that advances your argument?

My original point can be summed up as the motivations behind Blackwater and other contractors are political.

Either Obama is complicit in Murder and rape or the allegations are not credible.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Abacab *****h [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you have any proof of these allegations from a private security firm? Because I can definitely show you every allegation you've listed holds true for the U.S armed forces, but I haven't seen one smudge on any private security firm aside from the usual political ramifications and agendas.

This is a complete red herring. Yes the US armed forces have done sketchy shit as well, including rape, torture, wrongful killing, etc. But the difference is that the US is held to higher standards of accountability, because a soldier can always be court-martialed, when no such recourse exists for private security contractors (until recently at least - the Iraqi government I think has the jurisdiction to prosecute them now under the SOFA agreement, or some other agreement, I'm not sure). Numerous allegations have been made against Blackwater (many of which probably carry enough evidence for some sort of conviction), it doesn't matter whether there's incontrovertible proof of these allegations, the point is that they've been made. It's actually kind of amusing that you say you can "prove" that many of the things I said hold true for the US military, when the only reason you can prove anything is that the accusations against them can actually be presented and argued in a court, whereas private security contractors are demonstrably harder to prosecute.

I'm sure Abacab that you're well-aware that sometimes US soldiers commit crimes but for [often political] reasons they either go unpunished or are given a slap on the wrist (just look at the wikileaks video of the helicopter shooting in Iraq for evidence of this). Why wouldn't the same hold true for Blackwater? Why are you all so convinced that their record is spotless?

Also, Azeth is stupid.

[G13]

I'm sure Abacab that you're well-aware that sometimes US soldiers commit crimes but for [often political] reasons they either go unpunished or are given a slap on the wrist (just look at the wikileaks video of the helicopter shooting in Iraq for evidence of this). Why wouldn't the same hold true for Blackwater? Why are you all so convinced that their record is spotless?

Wikileaks was completely discredited over that video. The people being attacked by US forces were carrying RPGS and AK47s

Get your facts straight

[Contact]

"Either Obama is complicit in Murder and rape or the allegations are not credible."

Beautiful straw man, absolutely fabulous. Blackwater was, at the time, the only firm capable of protecting American diplomats etc. in Iraq w/o a total reorganization. Being a pragmatist, Obama went with continuity over endangering the civil corps over there. Was it a moral choice? Whatever. Explain to me why Blackwater now has a new name if they are so innocent. Big tough men that couldn't handle the heat? Hardly.

[Sarkov]

Guys calm down its just a guild name... :\

[Serrack]

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wikileaks was completely discredited over that video. The people being attacked by US forces were carrying RPGS and AK47s

Wow, didn't know that. Do you have any sources for that information? I'd love to take that to a similar argument on a different board.

TIA

[Dominick]

Originally Posted by Serrack [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wow, didn't know that. Do you have any sources for that information? I'd love to take that to a similar argument on a different board.

TIA

It was rolling around SA for a while. When you look at freezes you can see they are armed.

[Zexa]

Straw man ad hominem red herring, therefore non sequitur circular reasoning.

I learneded that debating on the internet is easier if I know these words.

[Zexa]

Originally Posted by Dominick [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It was rolling around SA for a while. When you look at freezes you can see they are armed.

I assume you're talking about the incident with the Iraqi Reuters journalists. There were a group of men standing around in a courtyard being watched from the air. They were armed but you are allowed an AK-47 and weren't making any threatening actions. There was a fire fight with US forces nearby and the pilot saw one of the journalists go down on one knee, raise his camera to record, and then took him out.

It did look like he was holding an RPG.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Zexa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Straw man ad hominem red herring, therefore non sequitur circular reasoning.

I learneded that debating on the internet is easier if I know these words.

Zexa is sexa.