Noble Dojorn Timers

[bktroost]

That being said if TMO and IB both posted it was a misunderstanding right now would we all be willing to go back to the old system? We can discuss our noble issues internally with BDA and Taken ect. But for the good of the server we can all agree that what we had is better than FTE clickfesting.

[Ella`Ella]

There was no misunderstanding. TMO and FE were both forbidden from Noble when they were suspended in the past thus, Noble should have continued to be forbidden during a raid suspension as previous precedent had evidenced. Noble has FTE shouts, is still contested even on YNYD at times and requires a large enough force to down. With these three metrics in place, there is no way you can manipulate Noble into NOT being a raid target.

Noble is still a contested raid target with the only exception that there is a player agreement to leave Overseers up. TMO didn't go after Tuesday's Noble as an act of aggression, that's simply a means to justify by the offending parties. TMO went after a contested raid target when it spawned while a guild that was raid suspended was in the zone - it's nothing more black and white than that - as any other guild was welcome to contest this open spawn.

Retaliation by clearing the rest of the overseers which damages the community as a whole is an act of aggression from both parties; IB (again, during a raid suspension against a 'raid target') and Taken. Killing these was not only a violation of a raid suspension by IB but it was also a spiteful attack on the server by cheating the other guilds of 3 more nobles during the week.

[-Catherin-]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There was no misunderstanding. TMO and FE were both forbidden from Noble when they were suspended in the past thus, Noble should have continued to be forbidden during a raid suspension as previous precedent had evidenced. Noble has FTE shouts, is still contested even on YNYD at times and requires a large enough force to down. With these three metrics in place, there is no way you can manipulate Noble into NOT being a raid target.

Noble is still a contested raid target with the only exception that there is a player agreement to leave Overseers up. TMO didn't go after Tuesday's Noble as an act of aggression, that's simply a means to justify by the offending parties. TMO went after a contested raid target when it spawned while a guild that was raid suspended was in the zone - it's nothing more black and white than that - as any other guild was welcome to contest this open spawn.

Retaliation by clearing the rest of the overseers which damages the community as a whole is an act of aggression from both parties; IB (again, during a raid suspension against a 'raid target') and Taken. Killing these was not only a violation of a raid suspension by IB but it was also a spiteful attack on the server by cheating the other guilds of 3 more nobles during the week.

TMO is clearly the only innocent one in this situation.

/sarcasm

id rather this not escalate but this was pretty ridiculous.

[bktroost]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There was no misunderstanding. TMO and FE were both forbidden from Noble when they were suspended in the past thus, Noble should have continued to be forbidden during a raid suspension as previous precedent had evidenced. Noble has FTE shouts, is still contested even on YNYD at times and requires a large enough force to down. With these three metrics in place, there is no way you can manipulate Noble into NOT being a raid target.

Noble is still a contested raid target with the only exception that there is a player agreement to leave Overseers up. TMO didn't go after Tuesday's Noble as an act of aggression, that's simply a means to justify by the offending parties. TMO went after a contested raid target when it spawned while a guild that was raid suspended was in the zone - it's nothing more black and white than that - as any other guild was welcome to contest this open spawn.

Retaliation by clearing the rest of the overseers which damages the community as a whole is an act of aggression from both parties; IB (again, during a raid suspension against a 'raid target') and Taken. Killing these was not only a violation of a raid suspension by IB but it was also a spiteful attack on the server by cheating the other guilds of 3 more nobles during the week.

I 100% agree with you that these mobs are raid targets, however, they are NOT given any consideration as so by the GMs. They are not on the 1/1/1 system and are when we got suspended I was told by Sirken that Sky mobs are good to go! Which, I firmly believe, should include Noble, OOAs and HoV. These mobs should NOT be just a regular mob and SHOULD be added be given the weight they deserve. However, they are not. Which is why IB got pissed that you guys came up to capitalize on "their Noble" even though they were in suspension... because technically they can still kill it according to previous GM suspension rules.

[Ella`Ella]

Originally Posted by bktroost [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I 100% agree with you that these mobs are raid targets, however, they are NOT given any consideration as so by the GMs. They are not on the 1/1/1 system and are when we got suspended I was told by Sirken that Sky mobs are good to go! Which, I firmly believe, should include Noble, OOAs and HoV. These mobs should NOT be just a regular mob and SHOULD be added be given the weight they deserve. However, they are not. Which is why IB got pissed that you guys came up to capitalize on "their Noble" even though they were in suspension... because technically they can still kill it according to previous GM suspension rules.

Should that be the case, TMO has made it clear that we would engage a noble on a day other than our own if we do not have a noble spawning on our day. I believe this is even posted here in this thread by Snackies. However, we have also agreed to not killing Overseers to any extent.

[bktroost]

Is that TMO agreeing to uphold this agreement in the near future should IB agree as well?

[Striiker]

The attempt to rotate this had several flaws and ultimately it failed because we did not have a consensus by all guilds involved. Getting everyone to willingly agree to anything is pretty much impossible on this server. There were too many instances of guilds looking out for their own interests instead of making concessions to arrive at an equitable solution.

It's unfortunate really.. A simple rotation would ultimately see every sky raiding guild get a Noble kill weekly (possibly more) or at the least, an equal number over a given period of time (but this requires compromise to get rolling). So, the final straw came when a perceived slight by TMO against IB happened and so IB retaliated by killing some overseers (which steps all over the remaining guilds who were not involved in any such actions).

So, the agreement is dead for the time being. The Efreeti cycle will be once again a FFA click-fest target.

[Ella`Ella]

Originally Posted by Striiker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The attempt to rotate this had several flaws and ultimately it failed because we did not have a consensus by all guilds involved. Getting everyone to willingly agree to anything is pretty much impossible on this server. There were too many instances of guilds looking out for their own interests instead of making concessions to arrive at an equitable solution.

It's unfortunate really.. A simple rotation would ultimately see every sky raiding guild get a Noble kill weekly (possibly more) or at the least, an equal number over a given period of time (but this requires compromise to get rolling). So, the final straw came when a perceived slight by TMO against IB happened and so IB retaliated by killing some overseers (which steps all over the remaining guilds who were not involved in any such actions).

So, the agreement is dead for the time being. The Efreeti cycle will be once again a FFA click-fest target.

It is unfortunate that IB's behavior led to such confusion for everyone else on the server. TMO will still respect the agreement that we put forth since the freeti agreement has been in place. Nothing has changed on our end. Our killing of IB's noble was under the premise that IB was not able to engage noble (or Overseers for that matter) during a raid suspension. Our understanding of this was furthered when IB leadership and membership remained on island 1 for about 30minutes while we waited and engaged Noble without a single /tell or /ooc from leadership validating or questioning our actions.

If Taken wishes to withdraw, then that decision lays solely on you and TMO will adjust accordingly.

[Erati]

Pretty hard to just press the 'reset' button once an agreement is broken especially when we have no measures in place to ensure that a similar situation doesn't happen again.

Without any form type of oversight, the Overseer agreement is subject to any guild's 'bad day'.

Until we as a collective group can decide on how we wish to enforce the "No Killing of Overseers", hoping and wishing that no one does seems pretty futile.

[Artaenc]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Should that be the case, TMO has made it clear that we would engage a noble on a day other than our own if we do not have a noble spawning on our day. I believe this is even posted here in this thread by Snackies. However, we have also agreed to not killing Overseers to any extent.

"a noble" is not accurate here, more like Saturday and Tuesday Noble unless I got the days mixed up.