Freedom From Atheism Foundation

[fadetree]

Originally Posted by Dragonsblood1987 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you say that asking if religion is followed for the sake of comfort, what is the ultimate goal of being spiritual? that isnt really a question with an objective answer. i wouldnt really say that judeo-christian religions are very spiritual, especially not in comparison with eastern religions.

eastern religions tend to explore spirituality as a means of achieving enlightenment. you are a soul, you have always been, just not always in your current physical form. everything that reality encompasses is bound in some way, thus making everything in it small parts of a whole. if you do good, you'll amass positive energy and go up a rung in the ladder when your physical form dies, being reborn a little bit closer to true enlightenment. or at least you'll have more means of becoming enlightened at your disposal. life and death are like the breath of the universe, theres a balance that is maintained, we're all part of a greater consciousness.



judeo christian religions however, are a bit more linear and black and white (though theyre the most frequently openly interpreted). god said "let there be light". bam. we're here. now that youre here, youve been gifted with free will. what you do with it is your choice, but if you dont do what god wants, he, the unconditionally loving creator, will punish you for ever with physical torture (although some offshoots of the big three have varying amounts of penance; its not always forever). if youre good and dont use the free will god gave you, you'll go to heaven, or some plane of positive energy to put it another way. in heaven, theres no pain, no hunger, everyones always happy you get to see dead loved ones again ect. if youre bad, youre barred from heaven, damned to hell or some negative plane where your only company is some chief embodiment of evil, and all the asshole that have ever existed and died before you.



it seems to me like spirituality doesnt play enough of a roll in christianity to even mention it, hence why i asked what i did.

I'm interested in what you think spirituality is. Do you think its some kind of learning or enlightenment process? The literal meaning of the word, of course, is 'dealing with spirits'.

You mention a bunch of stuff about Christian 'religion'. Its accurate enough according to popular opinion, but doesn't really have anything to do with actual Christianity. If you are a Christian, you are not bound by the old testament. You are not, in fact, bound by anything. Let me give you an alternate take :

In my christian circles, Sin is not a series of bad actions that God doesn't like, and Righteousness is not a bunch actions that he likes. Sin is an environment, and refers to the the fact that you have free will. The meaning of word for 'Sin' is basically 'apart from God', as in He's not directing everything all the time, which is another way of saying we have free will. He's not shooting down airplanes full of babies, we are.

Righteousness is not doing a bunch of good actions till you 'get good enough'. There is no good enough. The most super duper wonderful human you ever met is exactly as sinful as anyone else. The most despicable murderer is exactly as Righteous as anyone else. Hitler and Mother Teresa? Exactly the same from a sin standpoint. Those public Christians talking about how sinful one kind of person is over another? They are seriously mistaken.

Hell and eternal damnation? One way to look at it is that you may simply not recognise what you are being offered in the afterlife, and thus fail to accept it. Nobody sends you to hell, you just don't see heaven when it's in front of you. That applies to this life as well, I think. I personally do not buy the hellfire idea...JC mentioned some things in that regard but they were mostly metaphors for a 'really bad thing', which indeed it would be if heaven existed but you couldn't recognise it.

To me, Christianity means that
a) I believe in the historical Jesus. This is not unreasonable.
b) I think he was God's "son", avatar, representative, etc for us humans. This is unreasonable.
c) I accept the free gift that God extends through him. This is the only way to righteousness. Reasonable given (b) is accepted.
d) I try to be as much like him in my daily life as I can. Reasonable, even if you don't buy the God part he had some damn good suggestions.

Most of the rules that people go on and on about are really just Him trying to give us some clues about how to be happy. Breaking them is not any more sinful that not breaking them, its just usually stupid for practical reasons.

[Champion_Standing]

Originally Posted by Malice_Mizer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's called reading a fucking book and not dropping out of high school.

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[fadetree]

Oh also :

I don't think all the native indians and islanders zulu warriors from 1500 and what not who have never heard the name 'Jesus' are all going to hell. I believe God will treat us all fairly no matter who we are and what we've experienced. Notice I said 'fairly'...which if you think about it is kind of scary.

[fadetree]

And that big giant post that Malice_Mizer made? I agree with almost completely. I just tried to say it more simply and with less rustling.

And with that I'M OUT

[fadetree]

Originally Posted by Dragonsblood1987 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you say that asking if religion is followed for the sake of comfort, what is the ultimate goal of being spiritual? that isnt really a question with an objective answer. i wouldnt really say that judeo-christian religions are very spiritual, especially not in comparison with eastern religions.

eastern religions tend to explore spirituality as a means of achieving enlightenment. you are a soul, you have always been, just not always in your current physical form. everything that reality encompasses is bound in some way, thus making everything in it small parts of a whole. if you do good, you'll amass positive energy and go up a rung in the ladder when your physical form dies, being reborn a little bit closer to true enlightenment. or at least you'll have more means of becoming enlightened at your disposal. life and death are like the breath of the universe, theres a balance that is maintained, we're all part of a greater consciousness.



judeo christian religions however, are a bit more linear and black and white (though theyre the most frequently openly interpreted). god said "let there be light". bam. we're here. now that youre here, youve been gifted with free will. what you do with it is your choice, but if you dont do what god wants, he, the unconditionally loving creator, will punish you for ever with physical torture (although some offshoots of the big three have varying amounts of penance; its not always forever). if youre good and dont use the free will god gave you, you'll go to heaven, or some plane of positive energy to put it another way. in heaven, theres no pain, no hunger, everyones always happy you get to see dead loved ones again ect. if youre bad, youre barred from heaven, damned to hell or some negative plane where your only company is some chief embodiment of evil, and all the asshole that have ever existed and died before you.



it seems to me like spirituality doesnt play enough of a roll in christianity to even mention it, hence why i asked what i did.

I'm interested in what you think spirituality is. Do you think its some kind of learning or enlightenment process? The literal meaning of the word, of course, is 'dealing with spirits'.

You mention a bunch of stuff about Christian 'religion'. Its accurate enough according to popular opinion, but doesn't really have anything to do with actual Christianity. If you are a Christian, you are not bound by the old testament. You are not, in fact, bound by anything. Let me give you an alternate take :

In my christian circles, Sin is not a series of bad actions that God doesn't like, and Righteousness is not a bunch actions that he likes. Sin is an environment, and refers to the the fact that you have free will. The meaning of word for 'Sin' is basically 'apart from God', as in He's not directing everything all the time, which is another way of saying we have free will. He's not shooting down airplanes full of babies, we are.

Righteousness is not doing a bunch of good actions till you 'get good enough'. There is no good enough. The most super duper wonderful human you ever met is exactly as sinful as anyone else. The most despicable murderer is exactly as Righteous as anyone else. Hitler and Mother Teresa? Exactly the same from a sin standpoint. Those public Christians talking about how sinful one kind of person is over another? They are seriously mistaken.

Hell and eternal damnation? One way to look at it is that you may simply not recognise what you are being offered in the afterlife, and thus fail to accept it. Nobody sends you to hell, you just don't see heaven when it's in front of you. That applies to this life as well, I think. I personally do not buy the hellfire idea...JC mentioned some things in that regard but they were mostly metaphors for a 'really bad thing', which indeed it would be if heaven existed but you couldn't recognise it.

To me, Christianity means that
a) I believe in the historical Jesus. This is not unreasonable.
b) I think he was God's "son", avatar, representative, etc for us humans. This is unreasonable.
c) I accept the free gift that God extends through him. This is the only way to righteousness. Reasonable given (b) is accepted.
d) I try to be as much like him in my daily life as I can. Reasonable, even if you don't buy the God part he had some damn good suggestions.

Most of the rules that people go on and on about are really just Him trying to give us some clues about how to be happy. Breaking them is not any more sinful that not breaking them, its just usually stupid for practical reasons.

[Dragonsblood1987]

Originally Posted by fadetree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To me, Christianity means that
a) I believe in the historical Jesus. This is not unreasonable.
b) I think he was God's "son", avatar, representative, etc for us humans. This is unreasonable.
c) I accept the free gift that God extends through him. This is the only way to righteousness. Reasonable given (b) is accepted.
d) I try to be as much like him in my daily life as I can. Reasonable, even if you don't buy the God part he had some damn good suggestions.

but how do you willingly look past the contradictions in the unreasonable parts? thats means that on some level you understand that it isnt real right?

[Dragonsblood1987]

and i agree. if you consider jesus just another human, yes. he had some good ideas

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by Malice_Mizer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's called reading a fucking book and not dropping out of high school.

dude you completely describe Christianity in the way YOU see it. And half the time I roll my eyes about how wrong you are from MY perspective or anyone else's.

If you you didn't you'd be living a life like Jesus and feeding the poor and certainly wouldn't be arguing with people on the internet.

Its all fucking hogwash and everyone defines it all however they please. So yall should sotp arguing about it. Say what you will about Athiests, but at least they can all agree in the same thing, there is no god, end of the conversation.

Just relax nobody is persecuting anyone here and you're not going to change anyone's opinions about religion by yelling at them about how they are wrong on the internet.

[Malice_Mizer]

Originally Posted by Dragonsblood1987 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

but how do you willingly look past the contradictions in the unreasonable parts? thats means that on some level you understand that it isnt real right?

What contradictions? Again, if you read the Bible in the apostolic tradition, then contradictions do not exist. I hate to just say, "Read the Catechism," but that sounds like what is in order here. If you take the Bible alone, you can infer all kinds of messed up stuff. That's why every non-Protestant believes that there is both a Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition that must go hand-in-hand in order to achieve any kind of spiritual enlightenment from Christianity. The Bible alone can be anything to anyone. If pick up Shakespeare without any context of his era, or any teacher to help guide your reading and explain how certain passages are to be understood, then you'd be lost and think it gibberish nonsense. And you'd be justified in thinking so.

[Packet]

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

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