ASOIAF / Game of Thrones (SPOILERS INSIDE)

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I will give you this, Dany is most definitely entitled and ignorant about why The Mad King was deposed. That's probably her most annoying part. It is interesting that Barristan doesn't impart some of his vast knowledge to her about this. I still tend to think that while she repeatedly bad decisions, she is surrounded by people who are actually making her more inept. They are decent at military encounters, but Barristan idealizes Dany for what she could be: the first good ruler than he has ever served. Jorah loves her for no other reason than he worships her beauty, or is just pathetic? I'm not sure what happened to him, but again, he sees Dany for what he wants her to be, rather than what she is. I'll admit she isn't the best ruler, but it's hard to be wise when your council doesn't explain more forcefully the consequences of your mistakes. She isn't being given an honest assessment of her abilities, and I still think she is "moderately successful". I'll put it like this, I live in the US. I'd take her as a leader over Obama or Bush in a heart beat.

oh dany. Dany suffers from Princess complex, same as Lindsay Lohan. shes been told shes special for so long that she believes it. id bet Barristan doesnt want to say anything bad about the mad king to dany, because Targaryens have a history of over reacting to news that they dont want to hear. Barristan has only been with Dany for a year or so, but he has served Targaryens his entire life, and he knows that well. and to be 100% honest, im not entirely sure that Dany isnt a little bit crazy (just like her dad). and the fact that you'd accept President Lindsay Lohan over either of the last two scares the shit out of me.

hopefully dany will learn. but maybe another blackfyre / targaryen war, targs led by Dany, and BFs led by Aegon.

shitty thing is, Stannis should be king at this point, an of the remaining claimants, i think Stannis would also make the best king. and soon, unless something big happens, they might have more support than people realize.

quick run down,

Arryns - Once great fam that would have had support (and did during Roberts rebellion), gonna be ruined by Robyn Arryn. The closest we have is Harrold Hardyng (Harry the Heir), if he looked up with Sansa, and had the right people supporting them, but theres no legit claim on the throne with out war to take it by force.

Baratheons - so Renly's claim is absorbed by Stannis, whom imo has the best claim. however, i fear that as he tangles with the WWs, Dany and her dragons will show up. he will save the realm by holding off the WWs, but he will learn that A) hes not azor azai, and B) he cant beat Dany's dragons as he watches them annihilate the WWs. and so imo, enter Stannis from stage left as the 1000th commander of the nights watch. AND after this last big WW battle, the Nights Watch and the position of Lord Commander will be highly respected and appreciated by the people of Westeros again.

Boltons - these are essentially the new Starks, as they rule the North. however they wont have the support to ever make a claim on the iron throne after the events of the red wedding. furthermore, the North remembers, dont expect the boltons to last too long.

Freys - lol.

Greyjoys - firstly, these nerds win on water, and lose on land. but Balon is gone, Euron is a raping pirate that will never have the support of Westeros, and will probably die when Victarion gets back. Vic could only rule Westeros if Dany put him there, and she wouldnt. Asha again has the issue of not being physically able to conquer westeros but wouldnt be shocked if she ended up in charge of pyke, shes good at getting people behind her (c wat i did there).

Lannisters - The Lannisters are fucked. be it due to the gods, bad luck, or the Dornish master plan. Tywin is dead, Kevin is dead, Tyrion is gone, Jaime can't fight nor can he inherent Casterly Rock as a member of the Kings Guard. Cersei is slowly losing her mind, her family's connections, her looks, and any grasp of power she might have had. Maggy tells us that Cersei will out live her children, so dont expect Tommen or Myrcella to have long happy lives.

Martells - these sneaky sand dwelling nerds have multiple tricks up their sleeves. Arianne Martell is smart, pretty, and dangerous. with Doran guiding her, they could be trouble. and with Oberyn's daughter Sarella disguised as a boy named Alleras studying at the citadel, it has to make us wonder what they are up to. im sure part of their plan is to install dornish law in westeros (as Dorne was never conquered by the Targs, they were allowed to keep their titles, laws, and customs when they were finally brought into the kingdom via a marriage pact). the biggest difference in Dornish law is that females are allowed to rule and be heirs over their male siblings, ie: by Dornish law, Cersei would actually be the legal heir to Casterly Rock over Jaime (regardless of KG status).

Starks - Jon Snow is their only hope at redemption as well as the iron throne. with Rickon being the heir to Winterfell (assuming Bran cant leave the cave). rest of them are dead or useless in terms of being King of Westeros. i dont believe Jon is Eddard's son, which is why hes not heir to winterfell, but could still be the heir to the iron throne, depending on the legitimacy of Aegon.

Targaryens - between Roberts Rebellion, Balons Rebellion, and the war of the 5 kings, id bet theres a lot of westerosi folks that yearn for the peaceful days of Targaryen rule. the problem here is that we now have an Aegon. and if hes a blackfyre, thatll be the start of a third targaryen/blackfyre civil war. if hes a Targaryen, well, he has a better claim to the throne than anyone else as he'd be Rhaegar's first son, and Dany is only Rhaegar's sister. if hes legit, shes nothing more than a pretty princess. Aegon doesnt have a strong enough force to conquer Westeros, but Dany does, which is why Dany needs to strike a deal with Victarion, which would essentially make her unstoppable on land and sea. personally i believe Dany could die in the final battle versus the WWs, kinda in a sacrifice herself to save the rest of us.

Tullys - pras blackfish, but nope.

Tyrells - these nerds will lose all claims to the throne with the death of Tommen. tuff times ahead.

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

oh dany. Dany suffers from Princess complex, same as Lindsay Lohan. shes been told shes special for so long that she believes it. id bet Barristan doesnt want to say anything bad about the mad king to dany, because Targaryens have a history of over reacting to news that they dont want to hear. Barristan has only been with Dany for a year or so, but he has served Targaryens his entire life, and he knows that well. and to be 100% honest, im not entirely sure that Dany isnt a little bit crazy (just like her dad). and the fact that you'd accept President Lindsay Lohan over either of the last two scares the shit out of me.

hopefully dany will learn. but maybe another blackfyre / targaryen war, targs led by Dany, and BFs led by Aegon.

shitty thing is, Stannis should be king at this point, an of the remaining claimants, i think Stannis would also make the best king. and soon, unless something big happens, they might have more support than people realize.

quick run down,

Arryns - Once great fam that would have had support (and did during Roberts rebellion), gonna be ruined by Robyn Arryn. The closest we have is Harrold Hardyng (Harry the Heir), if he looked up with Sansa, and had the right people supporting them, but theres no legit claim on the throne with out war to take it by force.

Baratheons - so Renly's claim is absorbed by Stannis, whom imo has the best claim. however, i fear that as he tangles with the WWs, Dany and her dragons will show up. he will save the realm by holding off the WWs, but he will learn that A) hes not azor azai, and B) he cant beat Dany's dragons as he watches them annihilate the WWs. and so imo, enter Stannis from stage left as the 1000th commander of the nights watch. AND after this last big WW battle, the Nights Watch and the position of Lord Commander will be highly respected and appreciated by the people of Westeros again.

Boltons - these are essentially the new Starks, as they rule the North. however they wont have the support to ever make a claim on the iron throne after the events of the red wedding. furthermore, the North remembers, dont expect the boltons to last too long.

Freys - lol.

Greyjoys - firstly, these nerds win on water, and lose on land. but Balon is gone, Euron is a raping pirate that will never have the support of Westeros, and will probably die when Victarion gets back. Vic could only rule Westeros if Dany put him there, and she wouldnt. Asha again has the issue of not being physically able to conquer westeros but wouldnt be shocked if she ended up in charge of pyke, shes good at getting people behind her (c wat i did there).

Lannisters - The Lannisters are fucked. be it due to the gods, bad luck, or the Dornish master plan. Tywin is dead, Kevin is dead, Tyrion is gone, Jaime can't fight nor can he inherent Casterly Rock as a member of the Kings Guard. Cersei is slowly losing her mind, her family's connections, her looks, and any grasp of power she might have had. Maggy tells us that Cersei will out live her children, so dont expect Tommen or Myrcella to have long happy lives.

Martells - these sneaky sand dwelling nerds have multiple tricks up their sleeves. Arianne Martell is smart, pretty, and dangerous. with Doran guiding her, they could be trouble. and with Oberyn's daughter Sarella disguised as a boy named Alleras studying at the citadel, it has to make us wonder what they are up to. im sure part of their plan is to install dornish law in westeros (as Dorne was never conquered by the Targs, they were allowed to keep their titles, laws, and customs when they were finally brought into the kingdom via a marriage pact). the biggest difference in Dornish law is that females are allowed to rule and be heirs over their male siblings, ie: by Dornish law, Cersei would actually be the legal heir to Casterly Rock over Jaime (regardless of KG status).

Starks - Jon Snow is their only hope at redemption as well as the iron throne. with Rickon being the heir to Winterfell (assuming Bran cant leave the cave). rest of them are dead or useless in terms of being King of Westeros. i dont believe Jon is Eddard's son, which is why hes not heir to winterfell, but could still be the heir to the iron throne, depending on the legitimacy of Aegon.

Targaryens - between Roberts Rebellion, Balons Rebellion, and the war of the 5 kings, id bet theres a lot of westerosi folks that yearn for the peaceful days of Targaryen rule. the problem here is that we now have an Aegon. and if hes a blackfyre, thatll be the start of a third targaryen/blackfyre civil war. if hes a Targaryen, well, he has a better claim to the throne than anyone else as he'd be Rhaegar's first son, and Dany is only Rhaegar's sister. if hes legit, shes nothing more than a pretty princess. Aegon doesnt have a strong enough force to conquer Westeros, but Dany does, which is why Dany needs to strike a deal with Victarion, which would essentially make her unstoppable on land and sea. personally i believe Dany could die in the final battle versus the WWs, kinda in a sacrifice herself to save the rest of us.

Tullys - pras blackfish, but nope.

Tyrells - these nerds will lose all claims to the throne with the death of Tommen. tuff times ahead.

Hahahahaha President Lindsay Lohan. Damn that's harsh, she isn't that bad.

I am an idealist. I'm from a shitty part of the world and I prefer benevolence, or at least attempted benevolence, to efficacy that comes with dishonesty. Not to bring politics into this, but GWBush and Obama are dishonest ass holes who are A) ineffective B) scum and C) couldn't run a lemonade stand. Even if Dany was as bad, and she may well be (just not in my opinion), having dragons would be legit for countering Russia. "Hey Putin, you like hunting bears? That's cool, I like killing tyrants whilst soaring atop this dragon."
I may be wrong, but you guys are seriously underestimating what Dany has accomplished.

I agree completely with what you say about Stannis having the best claim, but I disagree with him being the best candidate. He punishes Davos for smuggling in an attempt to save the garrison, and calls it honor. If he were so honorable, he would kill himself for having benefitted from a smuggler's crimes, rather than exact draconian measures on a man simply trying to help. Stannis is too brutal to rule justly. I have no doubt that he could do the job well, but the lower classes would suffer from his intractable sense of "honor."

I honestly think, of the characters with some remaining claim, that Jon Snow would make the best king. That being said, he is unlikely to be easily verified as a Targaryen, or to ever ascend to the throne. In his absense, Dany has the most potential to be a good ruler. And what about Tommen? He certainly doesn't have any glaring negatives to his character; at this point, I prefer him to Stannis.

Favorite characters:
1. Davos
2. Jon Snow
3. The hound
4. The Blackfish
5. Dany
I liked Tyrion until he got to Essos.

Least favorite:
1. Theon
2. Joffrey
3. Cersei
4. Robb
5. Baelish

[LulzSect]

Y u no liek Tyrion post ESSO? I rather enjoyed his travels post KL.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree completely with what you say about Stannis having the best claim, but I disagree with him being the best candidate. He punishes Davos for smuggling in an attempt to save the garrison, and calls it honor. If he were so honorable, he would kill himself for having benefitted from a smuggler's crimes, rather than exact draconian measures on a man simply trying to help. Stannis is too brutal to rule justly. I have no doubt that he could do the job well, but the lower classes would suffer from his intractable sense of "honor."

Stannis didn't cut his fingers for smuggling the onions. He cut off his fingers for ALL of his past smuggling crimes. The onions were simply an act of war in a time of war. He was rewarded for that specific act and never punished.

Stannis is by far the best candidate to rule the kingdom. He is an effective administrator, and that is what's needed most right now. With Kevan dead, there are very few people that could join the small council and actually govern. There are/were people who would be better rulers if they had a competent small council, but whoever takes the throne will pretty much be doing everything themselves at first.

Stannis is the only person who brings the full administrative package. He has experience in economics, administration, laws, and war. No one would be as effective or just as him in the current situation. Certainly, there are situations where people would be more effective rulers because of the support staff they have, but no one has that luxury, and whoever takes the throne will be flying solo for a while.

Stannis/Davos 2015.

[Sidelle]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Favorite characters:
1. Davos
2. Jon Snow
3. The hound
4. The Blackfish
5. Dany
I liked Tyrion until he got to Essos.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

^^^LOL, I couldn't resist, I had to post that. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Tyrion is the shit! He's my number one favorite character, hands down. He has a good heart deep down inside and really only wants to be loved. He's also clever and ambitious, which I respect a lot. Not to mention the great sense of humor and loyalty to his family (even if it's misplaced in some cases).

I agree with you about Ser Davos. I just love how honorable and ballsy he is. He does the right thing always, even if it means he'll die for it. He stands up to Stannis like no other because he sees how blinded he is regarding Melisandre and her so-called prophecies and predictions.

Dany was a girl I liked at one point. Or maybe I just felt pity for her being so alone in the world and used as a pawn by the ridiculously fat nerd, Illyrio, as well as the crafty Lord Varys. It made me root for her when she started accepting her lot in life as Khaleesi and really tried to make the best of it. I thought it was brilliant the way she handled (tamed?) Khal Drogo and earned his love and respect, even though part of me hated that she had to use sex to do it. In this male dominated world sometimes that becomes necessary. It's the only thing she had at that point.

But now Dany has become pretty arrogant (hubris much?) and in my opinion she's bringing a fuckton of shit down upon herself. She is biting off more than she can chew and is rapidly losing control of everything, including her dragons. So yeah, I can understand why people are annoyed with her because I am too.

My attention is piqued lately by the goings-on of the Dornish. I'm looking forward to seeing how Prince Doran and Princess Arianne's storyline unfolds.

Also, I really want more from the Blackfyres!

God I love GoT. So hungry for more . [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Tiggles]

$5 says Stannis dies via dragon fire after he is convinced that he can't be burnt.

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by LulzSect [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Y u no liek Tyrion post ESSO? I rather enjoyed his travels post KL.

Not sure, I just think he's a shadow of his former self. I want him to be in power.

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Stannis didn't cut his fingers for smuggling the onions. He cut off his fingers for ALL of his past smuggling crimes. The onions were simply an act of war in a time of war. He was rewarded for that specific act and never punished.

Stannis is by far the best candidate to rule the kingdom. He is an effective administrator, and that is what's needed most right now. With Kevan dead, there are very few people that could join the small council and actually govern. There are/were people who would be better rulers if they had a competent small council, but whoever takes the throne will pretty much be doing everything themselves at first.

Stannis is the only person who brings the full administrative package. He has experience in economics, administration, laws, and war. No one would be as effective or just as him in the current situation. Certainly, there are situations where people would be more effective rulers because of the support staff they have, but no one has that luxury, and whoever takes the throne will be flying solo for a while.

Stannis/Davos 2015.

DAVOS/DAVOS/DAVOS/DAVOS/LEONIDAS

1. Smugglers should lose appendages but fratricide is OK? Why does everyone absolve Stannis of his repeated series of dick moves? What would the man do to secure his crown? He'd certainly kill his brother (RIP Renly). I don't think that that is an effective tactic for ruling. And I understand that Stannis offered terms, and that Renly had zero claim to the throne. He still didn't deserve to die, and he especially didn't deserve to be killed by his brother. I know that these books are brutal, that people are murdered at weddings, that children are pushed from windows, that sausages are removed from their pair of meatballs, but I'm still not cheering for the people who commit the sins.

2. This guy is by far the biggest dickhead in the history of literature. Move over Judas. I could be biased (I am, I fucking hate Stannis), but I feel that this is an accurate assessment.

3. Stannis should change his name to Saddam HuStannis or BaStannis al-Assad.

Originally Posted by Sidelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

^^^LOL, I couldn't resist, I had to post that. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Tyrion is the shit! He's my number one favorite character, hands down. He has a good heart deep down inside and really only wants to be loved. He's also clever and ambitious, which I respect a lot. Not to mention the great sense of humor and loyalty to his family (even if it's misplaced in some cases).

I agree with you about Ser Davos. I just love how honorable and ballsy he is. He does the right thing always, even if it means he'll die for it. He stands up to Stannis like no other because he sees how blinded he is regarding Melisandre and her so-called prophecies and predictions.

Dany was a girl I liked at one point. Or maybe I just felt pity for her being so alone in the world and used as a pawn by the ridiculously fat nerd, Illyrio, as well as the crafty Lord Varys. It made me root for her when she started accepting her lot in life as Khaleesi and really tried to make the best of it. I thought it was brilliant the way she handled (tamed?) Khal Drogo and earned his love and respect, even though part of me hated that she had to use sex to do it. In this male dominated world sometimes that becomes necessary. It's the only thing she had at that point.

But now Dany has become pretty arrogant (hubris much?) and in my opinion she's bringing a fuckton of shit down upon herself. She is biting off more than she can chew and is rapidly losing control of everything, including her dragons. So yeah, I can understand why people are annoyed with her because I am too.

My attention is piqued lately by the goings-on of the Dornish. I'm looking forward to seeing how Prince Doran and Princess Arianne's storyline unfolds.

Also, I really want more from the Blackfyres!

God I love GoT. So hungry for more . [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dany is totally responsible for most of the fuckups she gets involved in, but ultimately she's still a child with a heavy burden and overwhelming personal tragedy. I empathize with her I guess... she's a stranger in a strange land. It's hard to adapt to that sometimes and I give her credit for TRYING to do the right thing, according to her own limited judgment.

I like the Dorne subplot as well. Lots of stuff will be happening.

And yeah, I really hope he gets done with The Winds of Winter soon. So many possibilities.

Originally Posted by Tiggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

$5 says Stannis dies via dragon fire after he is convinced that he can't be burnt.

hahahaha that would be great

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not sure, I just think he's a shadow of his former self. I want him to be in power.

Smugglers should lose appendages but fratricide is OK? Why does everyone absolve Stannis of his repeated series of dick moves? What would the man do to secure his crown? He'd certainly kill his brother (RIP Renly). I don't think that that is an effective tactic for ruling. And I understand that Stannis offered terms, and that Renly had zero claim to the throne. He still didn't deserve to die, and he especially didn't deserve to be killed by his brother. I know that these books are brutal, that people are murdered at weddings, that children are pushed from windows, that sausages are removed from their pair of meatballs, but I'm still not cheering for the people who commit the sins.

Renly was planning to kill Stannis. He even admitted to as much. Stannis is certainly not innocent, but with Davos around he has begun to recognize his faults (that's why he's at the wall in the first place). None of the potential leaders are perfect, and Stannis is clearly the best of the lot. Renly's death, while awful, is at least somewhat excusable. Usurping the throne is punishable by death, and in Stannis' view he is the one true king. Reasonably consistent despite a few mental backflips.

I can think of no other person alive I'd want running Westeros.

[Sidelle]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Stannis is by far the best candidate to rule the kingdom. He is an effective administrator, and that is what's needed most right now. With Kevan dead, there are very few people that could join the small council and actually govern. There are/were people who would be better rulers if they had a competent small council, but whoever takes the throne will pretty much be doing everything themselves at first.

Stannis is the only person who brings the full administrative package. He has experience in economics, administration, laws, and war. No one would be as effective or just as him in the current situation. Certainly, there are situations where people would be more effective rulers because of the support staff they have, but no one has that luxury, and whoever takes the throne will be flying solo for a while.

Stannis/Davos 2015.

Administrative skills aside, Stannis has embraced the dark side. It wasn't pork he and Melisandre were barbecuing on the beach at Dragonstone. It was his own men, even his brother-in-law, because they would not accept his new fanatical religious beliefs. What do you think he would do to the smallfolk if he would murder his own brother and bannermen?

Stannis is a tyrant and would probably be worse than Mad King Aerys ever was.

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not sure, I just think he's a shadow of his former self. I want him to be in power.

Yes, Tyrion is a litttle down and out now but I'm pretty sure he'll make a comeback and maybe become pretty important before the end of the series.

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. Smugglers should lose appendages but fratricide is OK? Why does everyone absolve Stannis of his repeated series of dick moves? What would the man do to secure his crown? He'd certainly kill his brother (RIP Renly). I don't think that that is an effective tactic for ruling. And I understand that Stannis offered terms, and that Renly had zero claim to the throne. He still didn't deserve to die, and he especially didn't deserve to be killed by his brother. I know that these books are brutal, that people are murdered at weddings, that children are pushed from windows, that sausages are removed from their pair of meatballs, but I'm still not cheering for the people who commit the sins.

2. This guy is by far the biggest dickhead in the history of literature. Move over Judas. I could be biased (I am, I fucking hate Stannis), but I feel that this is an accurate assessment.

3. Stannis should change his name to Saddam HuStannis or BaStannis al-Assad.

I strongly dislike him too. He's often described as 'fair' and 'just' but he's really just an evil, cold-hearted tyrant and no better than anyone else who would sell their souls for power. Someone who burns men alive for not converting to his new religion is not a great candidate for king of Westeros. That would not be a happy and secure realm. I think it's possible that he might actually become king at some point but I don't believe he would last very long.

I worry a little about what will become of Ser Davos at that point. Stannis doesn't deserve such unwavering loyalty. At some point I feel something's gotta give regarding Davos. He needs to let go of that idealistic view of Stannis and come to his senses.