religion

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's antihistorical garbage. In Mein Kampf, Hitler declares several times that he's doing god's work by exterminating the Jews. Furthermore, the Vatican refused to ban this outrageously anti-Semitic propaganda when they were in the business of banning any literature that they didn't deem appropriate at the time. In the SS, when you took your compulsory oath to the Führer, you were expected to say, "I swear by almighty god, undying fealty." On your belt, if you were soldiered in the Nazi army, you had to wear a buckle that read, "Gott mit uns"; German for "God on our side".

Like every other form of totalitarianism and fanaticism, this was religious in and of itself.

[Toofliss]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No reasoned atheist is suggesting that this is the case. We're simply saying that rejecting any idea that jumps to the conclusion of a divine, unfaltering supernatural entity being the creator of it all is a much more rational and logical stance to take.

So how about a super intelligent entity being the creator of it all? Is that rational and logical to you? Remove divine and supernatural -- would you conclude that evidence points toward these rules being established by some entity?

Or the ship has already sailed and no matter how hard you look at this scenario, someone putting all these laws and rules into place is simply impossible?

[RobotElvis]

Originally Posted by Nihilist_santa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are spot on. Hitler was influenced by occult publications like Osatra magazine. They pretty much followed a strange form of theosophy from Madame Blavatsky and mixed it with some of the ideas from the Thule society and their weird space brother nonsense.Then this was peppered with nationalistic German paganism probably due to the romantics and people like Wagner influencing these guys growing up. Many of these people running these groups were defrocked monks and Jesuits like Himmler and Lanz Von Liebenfels. I don't think Hitler believed much of this after taking power and once Hess flew to England (he really believed in astrological readings)and was captured Hitler tried to put an end to many occult practices. I always laugh when people think Hitler and his cronies were Christians.

Me too if they only knew all that stuff.

No doubt the Catholic Church made a pact with him to remain in the seat of their western empire. What that was Germany?!!! some will say. Yes it was.

But no doubt when the church had served their purpose the would have also felt the rath of the third riech's Final Solution.

He had no vested interest in the Church.

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by RobotElvis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So you believe in/accept a supernatural force?
An impersonal one i mean.

No. I believe the existence of a supernatural realm is unlikely, and there is not enough evidence to support such a claim. I am not definitively claiming it doesn't exist either; that would also be an unsubstantiated claim.

[RobotElvis]

Originally Posted by Toofliss [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So how about a super intelligent entity being the creator of it all? Is that rational and logical to you? Remove divine and supernatural -- would you conclude that evidence points toward these rules being established by some entity?

Or the ship has already sailed and no matter how hard you look at this scenario, someone putting all these laws and rules into place is simply impossible?

There is no instance on the natural world where design does not implicate intelligence.
And intelligence implicates personality.

If there is consistent design in nature, then it comes from an intelligent source, that is an immutable consistency.

If there is an intelligent source then it has a personality of its own, that to is an immutable consistency.

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by Toofliss [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So how about a super intelligent entity being the creator of it all? Is that rational and logical to you? Remove divine and supernatural -- would you conclude that evidence points toward these rules being established by some entity?

No, not in the least. To believe such a claim to be true, we would need huge, irrefutable, massive, undisputed evidence.

You simply contemplating The Big Questions in life, looking carefully at the universe and thinking, "Hmm, this seems designed!" is not enough evidence. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I am saying it's illogical and irrational to definitively believe that this is the case.

[RobotElvis]

God does not always mean the god of Christians.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Originally Posted by Toofliss [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So how about a super intelligent entity being the creator of it all? Is that rational and logical to you? Remove divine and supernatural -- would you conclude that evidence points toward these rules being established by some entity?

Or the ship has already sailed and no matter how hard you look at this scenario, someone putting all these laws and rules into place is simply impossible?

That's stillman explanation without evidence. It's akin to claiming that Thor exists because lightning.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Originally Posted by KagatobLuvsAnimu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's stillman explanation without evidence. It's akin to claiming that Thor exists because lightning.

Still an.

[Toofliss]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, not in the least. To believe such a claim to be true, we would need huge, irrefutable, massive, undisputed evidence.

You simply contemplating The Big Questions in life, looking carefully at the universe and thinking, "Hmm, this seems designed!" is not enough evidence. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I am saying it's illogical and irrational to definitively believe that this is the case.

When I started out, it wasn't me looking for design. I started by just observing all of the things taking place. Orbit of the planets, cells and building blocks of life, physics and all of the natural laws, you name it. Countless months just contemplating questions that came to mind after observing the world in which we live.

After a while I started to look at how perfect it all was. While I don't believe anyone can perfectly calculate the odds of all of these laws, all of these coincidences, I know that the odds are ridiculous. When I think about the probability of all of these things just happening by chance, I rule that as impossible. When I removed the impossible, what remains is the truth (in my mind of course).

When I came to the conclusion that a creator of some sort must exist then I started going back to revisit the various religions. Could any of them have any truth? Keep in mind the first 3 decades of my life said absolutely not. I'm currently a Christian - probably a toddler, maybe even an infant in my faith. If I'm unable to reconcile some of my current struggles with the faith then I'll move on and look at other religions for answers.