religion

[RobotElvis]

Originally Posted by leewong [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First, I would state it arose from a colony of cells not a single cell...a colony. We have examples living today of fungi that form simple sets of four identical cells stuck together, others that form balls of 32-64 not quite identical cells with some specialized functions, up to full-blown multicellular organisms with 50,000 highly specialized cells, including reproductive germ cells.

Here is a possible theory. It is all hypothetical but shows just how easy early animals could evolve from just a single colony of cells:

1) A species of single celled organisms began forming aggregates of cells stuck together by a glue of secreted proteins and sugars (we can see species which do this today). All it takes is a few mutations to produce this effect. These cells have an advantage over other cells in some environments.

2) It is important not to forget these cells didnt live in colonies BEFORE the mutation that started gluing them together. These single cells developed flagella BEFORE a mutation started gluing them together. Now, a mutation appears that orients the flagella in the same direction, so that most of the flagella could work together to control the swimming direction of the colony.

3) Now you have a mutli-cellular colony that is fully mobile. It is important to remember that these cells are developing multiple mutations simultaneously. It isnt just one mutation at a time. During that same period this group of cells could be also developing mutations that allow chemical signals to be sent from one cell to another or to detect light.

4) It isnt hard to imagine from here how this colony could develop into a more sophisticated one later. A little mutation here, a little mutation there, and the cells are able to become ever increasingly complex and specialized. Small steps...

One thing you also have to consider. This isnt just one colony but trillions of colonies all mutating randomly from one another. Nature then determines which will survive an which will perish after each new mutation. You may have a handful of colonies all developing the proteins that glue them together simultaneously or thousands of years apart. Some colonies may not have had flagella for instance when the gluing protein mutation arose. Some colonies wouldnt ever produce the gluing mutation. It all depends on the random mutation and the environment selecting for it.

Once upon a time..........

Good story really it is.

Ok so that sounds simple enough I can imagine that happening honestly I can.
Now all we have to do is gather some of those cell colonies that still exhibit those properties and Boom! We have the proof.

You should ask oxford for a grant.

[capco]

Originally Posted by RobotElvis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Once upon a time..........

Good story really it is.

Ok so that sounds simple enough I can imagine that happening honestly I can.
Now all we have to do is gather some of those cell colonies that still exhibit those properties and Boom! We have the proof.

You should ask oxford for a grant.

Can you even begin to fathom the immensity of time that is 5 BILLION years?

[RobotElvis]

Originally Posted by capco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can you even begin to fathom the immensity of time that is 5 BILLION years?

Time! The God of evolution. Can't prove a hypothesis in a lab? Just not enough time.

[Glenzig]

Originally Posted by capco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can you even begin to fathom the immensity of time that is 5 BILLION years?

I can fathom that if time was the only real roadblock to observing evolution, that this would essentially be a cop out excuse. If all of these random and unguided mutations occurred millions and billions of years ago, then great. It take millions and billions of years for biological change from one species to another. The thing is, we are further along in the evolutionary timeline than any of those organisms. If all it takes is time, shouldn't we be seeing at least some observable evidence of one kind of anything living changing into another kind of thing?
Not bacteria that's resistant to certain antibiotics. I'm talking about real change. Alligators or sharks, some of the oldest known living things. Shouldn't they be changing in some observable way after all this time? Its been millions of years for them.

[Neyphlite]

Originally Posted by Glenzig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can fathom that if time was the only real roadblock to observing evolution, that this would essentially be a cop out excuse. If all of these random and unguided mutations occurred millions and billions of years ago, then great. It take millions and billions of years for biological change from one species to another. The thing is, we are further along in the evolutionary timeline than any of those organisms. If all it takes is time, shouldn't we be seeing at least some observable evidence of one kind of anything living changing into another kind of thing?
Not bacteria that's resistant to certain antibiotics. I'm talking about real change. Alligators or sharks, some of the oldest known living things. Shouldn't they be changing in some observable way after all this time? Its been millions of years for them.

http://www.sci-news.com/biology/scie...ies-01652.html

Heres some new species just discovered in 2013...New species are found every year. Walking sharks, flying squirrels, all kinds of shit goin on. As for Aligators and sharks...They are 2 of the most alpha predators on earth. Has it ever occurred to you that they have evolved to the point where there is no need for them to evolve any further with there spot in the food chain so secured? The only thing that actively hunts sharks and gators are humans.

[RobotElvis]

Originally Posted by Neyphlite [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

http://www.sci-news.com/biology/scie...ies-01652.html

Heres some new species just discovered in 2013...New species are found every year. Walking sharks, flying squirrels, all kinds of shit goin on. As for Aligators and sharks...They are 2 of the most alpha predators on earth. Has it ever occurred to you that they have evolved to the point where there is no need for them to evolve any further with there spot in the food chain so secured? The only thing that actively hunts sharks and gators are humans.

Species, kinds, classes, all the same thing right?

So sharks and gators pressed the stop button on evolution.

Thought that was impossible.

[Neyphlite]

Originally Posted by RobotElvis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Species, kinds, classes, all the same thing right?

So sharks and gators pressed the stop button on evolution.

Thought that was impossible.

I never said that a stop button couldn't be hit. Things evolve for a reason. My guess to that reason would be survival and as such theres really no need for a shark or gator to evolve to survive when they have survived the millions of years that they have.

[G13]

Originally Posted by Neyphlite [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I never said that a stop button couldn't be hit. Things evolve for a reason. My guess to that reason would be survival and as such theres really no need for a shark or gator to evolve to survive when they have survived the millions of years that they have.

The walking sharks and gators are still sharks and gators

Try again

[leewong]

Originally Posted by RobotElvis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Species, kinds, classes, all the same thing right?

So sharks and gators pressed the stop button on evolution.

Thought that was impossible.

No, they are still evolving but they are very well suited to their environment. When you are extremely well suited to the environment then nature is going to reinforce your current traits because they are beneficial traits. Also, it isnt as if sharks are still the same species they were a few hundred millions of years ago. Hundreds of variations have happened since then so today we have over 400 distinct sharks species all arising from a common ancient shark.

[RobotElvis]

Originally Posted by leewong [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, they are still evolving but they are very well suited to their environment. When you are extremely well suited to the environment then nature is going to reinforce your current traits because they are beneficial traits. Also, it isnt as if sharks are still the same species they were a few hundred millions of years ago. Hundreds of variations have happened since then so today we have over 400 distinct sharks species all arising from a common ancient shark.

You sure like to anthropomorphise nature.

I thought it was random mutations that produced evolutionary processes, not mutations reinforced by Nature.