religion

[leewong]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. this has nothing to do with christianity
2. The slave owners had christ killed. His followers were the poor and the downtrodden... His theology, at the time of his life, would have zero effect on the actions of those who own slaves. You guys don't see religion as history, which is your biggest problem. Christ, as a historical figure, had influence over a very limited number of people. He was preaching to them.

Whatever theology has occurred since then is attributable only to individual theologians, not to the man himself. Religion is a fluid, living thing than reflects cultural changes. One day you'll understand that.
Ignore thousands of years of collective wisdom of your ancestors at your own peril.

1. Um, so Bible passages from the New and Old Testament have nothing to do with Christianity...interesting.
2. So what. The slave owners should not affect what laws Jesus is passing down to human beings anymore than a murderer not following his laws would. If God was truly omnipotent he could write a book in such a way that it is timeless. What you are suggesting is that God writes different rule books for different cultures and that his laws change as time passes.

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by leewong [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. Um, so Bible passages from the New and Old Testament have nothing to do with Christianity...interesting.
2. So what. The slave owners should not affect what laws Jesus is passing down to human beings anymore than a murderer not following his laws would. If God was truly omnipotent he could write a book in such a way that it is timeless. What you are suggesting is that God writes different rule books for different cultures and that his laws change as time passes.

No, I'm suggesting that men wrote the Bible, and every other book, not God. You are at fault for assuming that a book of morals, written by men, has no value because you don't believe in God. If God doesn't exist, then why bring him into this? Why not take moral lessons from the Bible, since they are the teachings of men? Are you honestly telling me that there is nothing in the Bible that you find valuable? If you are, then you're a sociopath. The New Testament is 95% at least sound moral philosophy.

My point about it not being about christianity is that A) I'm a baha'i and
B) As always, you guys miss the point of religion. This isn't God sitting on high giving you instructions on life. This is YOUR ANCESTORS who were smarter than you, who saw the savage nature of the society that they lived in, telling their people "Hey dickheads, maybe you should stop killing one another and being ass holes."

If you don't believe in God, that's fine. But don't expect your arguments to convince me to not follow my religion. I have a sense of morality that doesn't bring me into conflict with any tribe, race, religion, or culture. That morality came from a religious upbringing. Does that make me evil?

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If Christ believed in an afterlife, and if he knew slaves rebelling against their masters would simply be murdered, why wouldn't he advise them to submit to bondage? Why did MLK not advise blacks to fight in a bloody rampage against whites. Practicality is always lost on you idiots. Slave revolts never work.

Christ advised the obedience of slaves. That's 1000x better of a strategy than anything you dip shits could come up with. Ask Spartacus or Nat Turner.

Ah yes, what a strategy indeed! He was working in the best interest of the slaves, of course! Oh, and just to be sure it seemed authentic, there's a bit about how it's okay to beat slaves within an inch of their lives - and if they die, no big deal, the slaves are our property after all. No worries, it's all part of the strategy. It has to be practical, right?

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

However, if you assume the moral high ground, people generally, as an introspective reaction, tend to see the evil in their ways.

Completely baseless assertion. People who assume the moral high ground because they think they have god on their side are the people who end up rationalizing things like bigotry, slavery, and genocide.

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's immoral to follow any teaching, because existing is immoral.

This is a complete non-argument and not even worth addressing. Warfare is necessary to kill people like Hitler who want to exterminate entire ethnic populations. The fact that every human being has a carbon footprint doesn't make every human being immoral. What a waste of a thought.

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only "religion" that scares me is this incessant desire from liberals and atheists to silence anyone who has a different opinion. What a fucked up world we'd have if you guys had the power to create a society without diversity of opinion, culture or thought.

More nonsensical confusion of religion and irreligion, and also not really even worth addressing. This is the typical non-thinking religious reaction to having their shitty, immoral beliefs challenged: "You just want to silence everyone that doesn't agree with you!" No, us challenging you does not mean we're trying to silence you. Get over yourself.

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh, and there are plenty of countries that have thought police apparatuses. I suggest you move to Iran, China, or Russia; you'd all fit in perfectly. Drones following the queen like in every other hive.

And speaking of societies without diversity of opinion, culture or thought, have you looked at Iran lately? Have you looked at North Korea? Do you know what a theocratic dictatorship is? Did you know that this is what religion created?

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And speaking of societies without diversity of opinion, culture or thought, have you looked at Iran lately? Have you looked at North Korea? Do you know what a theocratic dictatorship is? Did you know that this is what religion created?

Iran has been islamic for 1400 years, and for most of that time, it was a world or at least regional power. Now, it is a retrograde shit hole, but not because of Islam. It's because the elites believe that their philosophy is superior to all others, and others should submit to the correct thinking. It's the exact argument that you make. You keep saying how your positions are superior, and you'll be damned to see any other position. You are intolerant.

Oh and by the way. Iran banned slavery back in the Achaemenid era, because of Zoroastrianism. Most of the world had slavery at the time, but the Persians stopped due to religious teaching. Riddle me this Batman, what was evil about that edict?

Religion is millennia of culture, art, philosophy, and literature. I honestly don't understand why you guys don't get that. I am not 100% sure that God exists, how the fuck could I be. I don't believe in spirits, the soul, and while Id like to believe in an afterlife, I'm certainly not convinced that there is anything beyond this. What I am 100% certain of is that there are good christians, bad atheists, and vice versa. I am also 100% certain that different cultures and their religious beliefs have practical values to give modern humanity. The Upanishads, Quran, Bible, and the Avesta all have something useful within their pages.

im done again. There's no point arguing

You're convinced that the world started in the post Christian period, and that the modern culture you enjoy has no connection to Christianity. Those are both unequivocally false precepts, but I couldn't xonvince you otherwise even if I wasted my whole life trying.

Keep hating everyone around you. I'll have a smile on my face with all the other idiots at the shrine praying to the sky God. We'll all do charity and try to feed the hungry, and you'll be in your basement expounding on your supreme morality on Internet forums.

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Keep hating everyone around you. I'll have a smile on my face with all the other idiots at the shrine praying to the sky God. We'll all do charity and try to feed the hungry, and you'll be in your basement expounding on your supreme morality on Internet forums.

Sounds like you're the guy with the problem hating other people dude.

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by Sidelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm curious. Why is it a "problem" for you if other people believe that, though? Maybe you don't realized that you're making the same mistake a lot of religious people do: you judge, mock, and condemn the beliefs of other people if they happen to oppose your own.

I think they call that intolerance, no?

So again I ask: why is it a "problem" for you personally?

Yeah thats pretty much my point. These guys don't see how close they are to religious fundamentalists...as someone who grew up in Iran, I see it immediately.

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sounds like you're the guy with the problem hating other people dude.

I have maybe 10-15 posts in this thread, 3/4s of them are positives about religion, the remainder is attacking those who attack my beliefs. In contrast, this thread is 200 pages of "religion is and always has been evil and those who practice it are evil." Somehow, that makes me the hater? Get a grip

[Glenzig]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sounds like you're the guy with the problem hating other people dude.

You need better reading comprehension skills.

[Glenzig]

Originally Posted by leewong [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. Um, so Bible passages from the New and Old Testament have nothing to do with Christianity...interesting.
2. So what. The slave owners should not affect what laws Jesus is passing down to human beings anymore than a murderer not following his laws would. If God was truly omnipotent he could write a book in such a way that it is timeless. What you are suggesting is that God writes different rule books for different cultures and that his laws change as time passes.

You do realize that the bible was written for the entire human family right? No, you probably didn't.
You realize that there are still countries where slavery is legal right? So would it be more "timeless" to not speak of slavery? Or would it be more beneficial to set some practical principles for those who may still own slaves?

Obviously God is wise enough to realize that no matter what century you live in, slavery would be around in some areas. I'd call that pretty "timeless".