ASOIAF / Game of Thrones (SPOILERS INSIDE)

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and Robb should've been smart enough to know that.

what has Robb ever done that shows u he had a single brain cell? every decision he made was wrong [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

what has Robb ever done that shows u he had a single brain cell? every decision he made was wrong [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nothing. That's my point... He should've been smarter. Alas, he wasn't

[Sidelle]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

what has Robb ever done that shows u he had a single brain cell? every decision he made was wrong [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nothing. That's my point... He should've been smarter. Alas, he wasn't

Eeyup... Robb is one if my biggest disappointments in ASOIAF. Before I ever read about the Red Wedding and learned his fate, I can definitely remember facepalming at his decisions about the Westerling girl and the Karstarks. It was so glaringly obvious after that things were gonna get ugly with Walder Frey. Crabby old fucks like him, who are known for their history as being an unreliable assholes, do not just accept the kind of insult that Robb dished out when he ultimately rejected the Frey girl.

I remember thinking: Why the hell did he do that!? A son of Ned Stark should have known better. He was raised by the most honorable man in the seven kingdoms, for fucks sake.

Anyway, I'm back to catch up on this thread now. I've been immersed in the Outlander series, re-reading them again and watching the show's first season [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. I think recently someone here (Sirken maybe?) mentioned that someone was cast for the role of the Westerling girl for future episodes of GoT. My interest is piqued so I guess I'll be looking for some info about that.

<3

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Sidelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think recently someone here (Sirken maybe?) mentioned that someone was cast for the role of the Westerling girl for future episodes of GoT. My interest is piqued so I guess I'll be looking for some info about that.
<3

i swear i can trace every problem in my life to a woman. i could have warned robb and saved his life. and also, was not Sirken that told u that. afaik they merged the westerling girl into talisa and killed her at the RW to kill the theories about Rob possibly still having an heir [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Aenor]

Originally Posted by Mandalore93 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He's done nothing treasonous that anyone's heard of.

I would call leading Robb's Western force on a forced march to barrel into Tywin's massed army while keeping his personal force in reserve so that it can retreat from the carnage intact and in good order treasonous. This was the opposite of why Bolton was chosen. He was chosen for his cool-headedness. Instead, he acted like you would expect the Greatjon to act, rushing in headlong against a massed force. Except that he kept most of his own force back.

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is a 0% chance that Theon can convince Balon to join the Northern cause.

Another plot hole the size of the Grand Canyon.

[Aenor]

I'm at the end of Clash of Kings now and I'm going to keep an inventory of plot holes because they're really starting to pile up.

So it was Edmure who ordered the Winterfell garrison at the Twins to go with Bolton to seize Harrenhal. I suppose this was Martin's way of spreading the stupid around among the Starks and Tullys to make it more believable. But first of all, the 400 men at the Twins aren't going to make a difference in taking a castle the size of Harrenhal. However, they're just the size force needed to hold the Twins and ensure Walder Frey's loyalty, at swordpoint if needed.

I'm past that part of the book so i don't remember if Edmure specifically communicated this to the garrison as a direct order from Robb. If the Winterfell men at the Twins weren't convinced it was Robb's orders, however, I can't imagine they would have obeyed, knowing what was at stake and having seen what a disaster Bolton's previous adventure was for the North.

Robb thinking it was the "honorable" thing to marry his Westerling sidepiece is more believable because he's a stupid child, but you could still poke holes in it. His dad got some trim on campaign and came home with a bastard but still kept his marriage vow with Robb's mother. Maybe Robb thought it was true love and worth throwing his kingdom away for but, come one. If he loves her that much he needs to consider their survivability, which depends on getting back through the Twins and retaking the North.

The obvious thing for Robb to do is conceal his new love, speak nothing of his intentions and show up at the Twins still maintaining the ruse that he intends to marry a Frey. Once he's back at the Twins with his army back in the East he can treat with Walder Frey and offer new terms (i.e. Edmure in his place). With Highgarden joining the Lannisters, Robb would know that he can't hope to hold the riverlands, only the North. Getting his army back above the Neck and retaking Winterfell would be his overriding priority at that point, and revealing his new piece of ass to the Freys at that point makes that difficult to accomplish.

Lastly, I just read the chapter when Ramsey takes Winterfell. Theon has just witnessed a force of Bolton men betray their liege lord and slaughter his castellan, other bannermen, knights and men-at-arms. They accomplish this feat while losing only 20-30 men according to Ramsey, meaning they're left with over 500 after Ser Rodrick's force is extinguished. Such a force is easily enough to storm the walls of Winterfell and take it from Theon's garrison of 17.

This strikes me as incredibly lazy writing. Martin could have dedicated two pages to the exceedingly brief siege of Winterfell whereby Ramsey took it by force. Theon is not a trusting character. He has enough base cunning to know that, if Boltons are slaughtering Stark bannermen, they're not likely to bow down to or spare Ironmen. So, plot hole the size of the Milky Way, Theon opens his gates to a superior force because, having witnessed Ramsey's force commit a supreme act of treachery, he naturally assumes that they'll be loyal to him? I'm losing respect for Martin by the page. This is what happens when you give people half a decade between books.

[Sirken]

Edmure's people do not question Edmure or ask him if those are Robbs orders. they follow chain of command no questions asked. thats what soldiers do and have always done.

i truely dont think Robb was aware of all the consequences of his actions. as you say, he was a dumb boy, and he grew up with a father that idolized "honor". and so Robb, interpreted "honor" in his stupid 16 yr old way, and , well, RIP.

in winterfell it is said that 50 men can hold off 5000 men. it was built as a defensive structure for protecting itself from outsiders.

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[LulzSect]

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[Sidelle]

^^LOL

[Aenor]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Edmure's people do not question Edmure or ask him if those are Robbs orders. they follow chain of command no questions asked. thats what soldiers do and have always done.

i truely dont think Robb was aware of all the consequences of his actions. as you say, he was a dumb boy, and he grew up with a father that idolized "honor". and so Robb, interpreted "honor" in his stupid 16 yr old way, and , well, RIP.

in winterfell it is said that 50 men can hold off 5000 men. it was built as a defensive structure for protecting itself from outsiders.

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Not Edmure's men at the Twins. Rob left men there before Riverrun was freed. And Theon didn't have 50 men :P