Catherins attempt at lawyering

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by kotton05 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rustled? Cuz I'm sure insulting grammar is the last resort of someone who's wrong on the internet.

The same could be said about telling someone they're rustled. Just sayin'.

[kotton05]

True~_~

[Man0warr]

I'm so rustled.

[Derubael]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

. Derubael and I don’t really get along lol…

naw we get along just fine, whatchu talkin about?

I was not serious when I made this post:

Originally Posted by Derubael

nvm chest, sanity just went out the window, don't bother. not worth saving at this point.

But since you really, really want to see me totally lose it this morning, I'll simply point out three things:

1) Nothing in your post disproves anything I said. Unbrella's petition was literally ignored for a ridiculous amount of time, at which point it was finally addressed in a Skype call with Myself, Sirken, and Unbrella, where a mediation was requested. i don't know if Sirken was even fully aware of what he was telling you not to worry about during your conversation together - and yes, I can see why having this brought back up months later may have frustrated you - but the fact remains that you had both GM's agreeing to mediate for the TMO dispute against BDA

2) We have few viable options when "forced" to discipline Class R guilds when a dispute cannot be mediated by players, due to the way Class R rotates mobs. If we tak away, say, the next FFA Nagafen.... there's no real punishment there - we have no idea if you would have even gone after that target to begin with. So we are more or less forced to take away a rotation mob if it becomes necessary to address a situation that way. To be perfectly honest I am very thankful that you guys in Class-R rarely have conflicts like this that need to be escalated to that level, as they seem to be more difficult to find a fair and appropriate punishment for a violation.

To close this out, your last statement, while perfectly legitimate from your point of view, lacks the full picture required to truly make that judgement. Any bias that you may have thought was present is a combination of growing pains from the raid scene transition combined with biased perception of events - don't take that to be an insult, almost everyone carries some kind of bias, especially without having access to any of the Class C disputes - where mobs are forfeited all the time to compensate for infractions. I think that over time it will become clear we are really striving for fairness and cooperation as often as is possible in today's raid scene.

Now lets stop trying to make my head explode, ty!

[Nirgon]

Stop running off the GMs guys seriously

[Clark]

Originally Posted by kotton05 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rustled? Cuz I'm sure insulting grammar is the last resort of someone who's wrong on the internet.

Grammar is Great!

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

naw we get along just fine, whatchu talkin about?

I was not serious when I made this post:



But since you really, really want to see me totally lose it this morning, I'll simply point out three things:

1) Nothing in your post disproves anything I said. Unbrella's petition was literally ignored for a ridiculous amount of time, at which point it was finally addressed in a Skype call with Myself, Sirken, and Unbrella, where a mediation was requested. i don't know if Sirken was even fully aware of what he was telling you not to worry about during your conversation together - and yes, I can see why having this brought back up months later may have frustrated you - but the fact remains that you had both GM's agreeing to mediate for the TMO dispute against BDA

2) We have few viable options when "forced" to discipline Class R guilds when a dispute cannot be mediated by players, due to the way Class R rotates mobs. If we tak away, say, the next FFA Nagafen.... there's no real punishment there - we have no idea if you would have even gone after that target to begin with. So we are more or less forced to take away a rotation mob if it becomes necessary to address a situation that way. To be perfectly honest I am very thankful that you guys in Class-R rarely have conflicts like this that need to be escalated to that level, as they seem to be more difficult to find a fair and appropriate punishment for a violation.

To close this out, your last statement, while perfectly legitimate from your point of view, lacks the full picture required to truly make that judgement. Any bias that you may have thought was present is a combination of growing pains from the raid scene transition combined with biased perception of events - don't take that to be an insult, almost everyone carries some kind of bias, especially without having access to any of the Class C disputes - where mobs are forfeited all the time to compensate for infractions. I think that over time it will become clear we are really striving for fairness and cooperation as often as is possible in today's raid scene.

Now lets stop trying to make my head explode, ty!

I don't disagree that I'm biased towards my own position, it's a predisposition and I'd say it's a relatively rational thought process, but re-read our PM conversation. It was tantamount to saying "do what I say or else" instead of going back and conferring with Sirken and admitting "yes chest, Sirken said this was a resolved issued but now due to new staff regulations we are re-opening the case and requesting you to send a rep.

That thought differs greatly from "I have no idea what this is about, I don't know/care what Sirken has told you, show up or it's a summary judgement against you and/or I'll just ban your accounts #DunkPic"

TMO and IB can just swap mobs indefinitely where the class R guilds are painted into a corner because we've created a rotation. We aren't going to break the rotation to avoid punishment because we aren't assholes but it's almost like that's what you want, to sow a bit of chaos.

[kotton05]

Peas deru and holy shit it looks like the p99 community needed a vent thread. Ever since I joined rnf has always made work more fun. Lately it's been so sad.

I appreciate every one of you!

Now let's take a step forward. Does anyone have ideas on how to make the scene better? What if a collective made a case study thread with petitions and rulings from raid disputes? Would anyone wanna tackle that to help create solid references and a more concrete standard in when/what/how to petition correctly? This would help current and new guilds greatly also avoid frivilous claims.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by kotton05 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Peas deru and holy shit it looks like the p99 community needed a vent thread. Ever since I joined rnf has always made work more fun. Lately it's been so sad.

I appreciate every one of you!

Now let's take a step forward. Does anyone have ideas on how to make the scene better? What if a collective made a case study thread with petitions and rulings from raid disputes? Would anyone wanna tackle that to help create solid references and a more concrete standard in when/what/how to petition correctly? This would help current and new guilds greatly also avoid frivilous claims.

The simple solution is C/R, remove FFA, full repops FFA. Removes the point where C and R are forced to interact and removes a shit ton of drama.

[Cecily]

But how are we ever gonna be pals if we never see each other?