You quit Wow for pj99 I did?

[AnthonyHJ]

Originally Posted by webrunner5 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What unbelievable minds the original Devs had to have had to still make this game something we get excited about yet today. Pretty cool. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] And we live in a world now that anything over 2 years old is crap lol. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] 15 years and going. Crazy.

What I find amusing is how many of the original creators left by the time PoP hit. I mean, Project 1999 is basically EQ as created by its original team, warts and all. That must say a lot about the original Vision...

[stormlord]

Anthony I agree a lot with what you say, but I have to be the devils advocate.

There's a blurry line between "not idiot-proof" and "tedious". I don't think p1999 walks the line very well, yet neither does Wurm Online - the one I've been playing for the past few years.

I think the philosophy of making something which isn't idiot-proof is just about allowing players to suffer negative consequences which're the result of their own bad choices. Yet there's a blurry line here. Bad choices can be confused with baseline ignorance which most any human will be reasonably expected to have. Most of us have experienced such baseline ignorance on p1999 or on live when a large train came rolling through and wiped our group. There's no reasonable way even the best players can react affectively. The result is the players die and it's not really a bad choice at all. It's not a consequence they're suffering because it's not avoidable. It's a negative consequences on rails, forcing the player to experience it.

And yet even if something IS avoidable, we all sometimes momentarily lose concentration or have to go afk or are just having a slow groggy day. Even the best will fail sometimes. So strictly speaking failure is on rails since everybody is going to experience more than once.

Then there's the issue of the amount of negative consequence. How much? If you die, do you lose 5 minutes of experience or 1 hour or 50 hours or do you permanently die? I think classic EQ up through Velious had a fairly high amount of negative consequence which made it even worse for those things which couldn't be avoided. This is why people who liked EQ were called masochists. How could someone enjoy negative consequences which're so high?

There's this spectrum of allowable ignorance and amount of negative consequence in different games. I think when players say a game is dumbed down they're talking about both. In EQ's case, it had high negative consequences and its tolerance for ignorance was so low even the best players were deemed ignorant. It's like that Plane of Justice zone in POP where everybody is found guilty. This is because it confused baseline ignorance with bad choices one too many times.

[Bboboo]

I quit WoW mostly because of the daily/weekly restriction caps. If I wanna grind something out and make 9/11 sized pizza box towers I should be able to.

Raiding was fun but they needed to add more bosses faster or at least make some of them really challenging mechanical wise. Boosting damage output on a boss doesn't really make it hard.

[Jimjam]

Never played WoW, is it any good?

I tried Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies and City of Heroes... mmorpg killer here, :s.

[Fame]

Have not played live wow since I created my p99 account, feels goog, is goooog

[Kunnin]

Originally Posted by SamwiseRed [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

WoW died when BC came out. world pvp died. unique classe for each faction was now shared. arenas. gimme fully populated vanilla wow server and ill play it.

^^THIS. Vanilla also seemed a little more balanced imo. Some classes had some classes down but for the most part if you were good you could bang.

The same thing happened to certain servers on EQ when LDoN came out. You could make items no-drop and lvl in instances... Less world pvp.. rewards for pvp lowered (no gear).. ppl still avoided even though consequences lowered. I loved eq pvp.. it was different from anything else. Vanilla WoW was the next best thing in my eyes. Still a lil gritty. Drunken rambling now, but you get the point...

[webrunner5]

I played Wow for about 8 months as a Hunter not long after the game came out. It was fun in the beginning. Liked where there was no real zoning like EQ has. But the higher I got the longer it took to "Fly" there. Got to be boring as crap because of that part alone. Plus you really could not Twink a alt toon with the gear you got. Went back to EQ and never have stopped since. Still play live now.

[Shaniril]

WoW started a slow death for me when Wrath was released and they started simplifying a lot of the gameplay mechanics and removing content (world raid bosses etc). I drifted around between other mmo's (eq2, aion, ff14) but nothing really felt right until I landed on p99. I sometimes take a break and check out other titles but for as long as it's around I'll always find my way back to this game.

<3 EQ1 <3 P99!

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by webrunner5 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I played Wow for about 8 months as a Hunter not long after the game came out. It was fun in the beginning. Liked where there was no real zoning like EQ has. But the higher I got the longer it took to "Fly" there. Got to be boring as crap because of that part alone. Plus you really could not Twink a alt toon with the gear you got. Went back to EQ and never have stopped since. Still play live now.

Same is true in classic EQ's case. The higher your level the further you have to go generally from your bind point to your camp. It's a balance between wanting a bind point near to a city and having it close to your camp. The designers of hte game deliberately placed the low level content adjacent to the cities to make it easy to find, but didn't go the same lengths for high level content.

They should have added more bind points or more opportunities for gaining faction to get good bind spots without having to trash important faction you need for other things. Or more places like High Keep where your bind is almost exactly where your camp is.

This is what makes the lower levels in classic EQ so fun. It's so much easier on the negative consequences:
1) You're generally closer to where your camp is - less travelling after you die
2) No hell levels (adds to the already higher experience loss)
3) All classes can tank somewhat (lvl 20+ classes start to specialize too much)
4) Less experience loss when you die (minutes are lost, not hours)

You can still die in a dungeon at low levels and have a difficult time getting the corpse, but like at high levels other people in hte dungeon can help you get it. I died many times in blackburrow, for example. But since there were usually a lot of players down there I didn't have too much trouble. And if there were few I generally could jump in from the top and drag my corpse a good distance. I might die, but it'd be closer to the entrance. It's easier if you're hybrid or caster.

[maahes]

Originally Posted by SamwiseRed [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

WoW died when BC came out. world pvp died. unique classe for each faction was now shared. arenas. gimme fully populated vanilla wow server and ill play it.

Never thought I'd see the day, but I agree with Sam's statement 100%. This is exactly why I am searching for a v1.12 WoW server. Few up and comers that have potential.