Would PoP be considered classic if it was released before Luclin?

[webrunner5]

Originally Posted by oldhead [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everything you said is wrong... how is that possible without trying?

I disagree. Luclin and PoP were well oiled machines compared to Classic. It was probably the Zenith of any game in the world at the time and I think probably the best era of the Original EQ. And Yes, I loved the Beastlord class and AA's also. The graphics in Luclin were over the top compared to Classic. Now I think some of the older character models looked better, Ogre, Troll, but the zones were just beautiful. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Bumamgar]

Originally Posted by oldhead [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everything you said is wrong... how is that possible without trying?

I disagree. Luclin and PoP were great expansions for a variety of reasons.

Luclin:

• AA rather than level boost was an excellent idea. Not only did AA give players a way to increase their character's power, it also gave a bit of customization control to the player other than exclusively via gear. Pre-Luclin, there were few options for customization. Sure, people may have had some variety in gear, but there really wasn't that much variety at the high end. Character customization is a good thing.
• Multiple key quests with gating mobs for end-game content. While there is some of this in Kunark and Velious (VP key in Kunark, Sleeper's key in Velious) they aren't nearly as comprehensive as Luclin with the Emperor and VT key quests. Heck, the keyed zone in Velious isn't even considered the 'end-game' zone, but rather a side trek for some nice toys. NToV is the end-game zone and can be accessed without any keying at all.
• Tiered raid content. This trend really started with Velious, but Luclin takes it even further, with a fairly clear progression between open-zone raid mobs -> Ssra named -> Vex Thal

PoP:

• Tiered content taken to it's logical conclusion, with only a few zones available initially, requiring personal flagging (via PoJ Trials) to access Tier 2 and then a combination of key quests and flagging to unlock later zones. Before the addition of level based access (a bad move, imho) there was a real sense of achievement when unlocking access to a new zone.
• New tradeskill items breathed new life into the market, providing several items that were of use even to raid-geared characters.
• Tiered quest armor. Ornate vs Elemental armor gave players a way to obtain decent gear without raiding, or raiders a chance to fill in a few slots that were lacking due to bad luck on drops. However, Ornate wasn't good enough to completely negate old content.
• Pickup raid scene blossomed. For a variety of reasons, but largely due to the need for backflagging, the PoP era was a pickup raider / casual raider's dream expansion. Given the effort required and itemization of the tier 1 - 2 content in PoP, end-game guilds generally had no desire to monopolize this content. They did, however, need to flag new recruits and absentee members, so the PoP era saw a large number of open access, pickup raids on pre-elemental content. Also, given the amount of content available in PoP and the time investment required to farm elemental armor and key for things like PoEarth-B, end-game raiders were often kept busy enough in PoP that Luclin and Velious targets opened up to lower tier guilds and pickup raids as well.

[Danth]

I agree with Mandalore's statement that Luclin and Planes of Power are mechanically superior to the earlier expansions. However, I still enjoy the earlier expansions more; improved mechanics don't necessarily equate to more fun. The later expansions had faults of their own that for some players (such as myself) more than cancel out any gains from the mechanical and technological improvements.

Danth

[Missingo]

Beastlords were a great class but Luclin overall was meh for me. Wish we had beastlords on here (yeah I know its not classic, shaddup)

[webrunner5]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree with Mandalore's statement that Luclin and Planes of Power are mechanically superior to the earlier expansions. However, I still enjoy the earlier expansions more; improved mechanics don't necessarily equate to more fun. The later expansions had faults of their own that for some players (such as myself) more than cancel out any gains from the mechanical and technological improvements.

Danth

I think we can all agree to your statement on here or we would not be playing P1999 lol. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But some people get, got bored doing the same old thing and wanted new content, and Luclin and Pop had it in Spades. It is just like here, some people have 10 alts or more now, and a lot have even moved to Red because of Kunark being out like going on 4 years now.

So you can't just lump everyone into one group and say you are right and they are wrong and vice versa. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[webrunner5]

Originally Posted by AceDSilva [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sony can't always have own something they didn't create. It wasn't Sony's product initially, they bought the rights after Verant couldn't float the game anymore. Verant produced Kunark, Velious, and most of Luclin I believe, and somewhat had a hand in PoP, but anything after that was solely SOE's direction, and well...

Tell that to the Sony's lawyers. There is a reason none of the spin offs on all the servers you can log onto, even here, are free to play. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] And even Rogean has control of the Log in thingy. It is his baby.

[apio]

Originally Posted by AceDSilva [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sony can't always have own something they didn't create. It wasn't Sony's product initially, they bought the rights after Verant couldn't float the game anymore. Verant produced Kunark, Velious, and most of Luclin I believe, and somewhat had a hand in PoP, but anything after that was solely SOE's direction, and well...

did you even read the wiki entry? I thought the article made it pretty clear

[mokfarg]

Originally Posted by webrunner5 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I disagree. Luclin and PoP were well oiled machines compared to Classic. It was probably the Zenith of any game in the world at the time and I think probably the best era of the Original EQ. And Yes, I loved the Beastlord class and AA's also. The graphics in Luclin were over the top compared to Classic. Now I think some of the older character models looked better, Ogre, Troll, but the zones were just beautiful. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well oiled? I quit because the entire game didn't feel like one cohesive world any longer. The game no longer felt like a wonderful fantasy world, rather a mix matched graphics, cobbled together pile of do, with books, PoK, Bazaar, Sci -Fi theme, cats on a moon, ball of crap. It was no longer built as a wonderful immersive world to pull you in, rather built for convenience as a monster killing factory.

[86753o9]

Originally Posted by mokfarg [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well oiled? I quit because the entire game didn't feel like one cohesive world any longer. The game no longer felt like a wonderful fantasy world, rather a mix matched graphics, cobbled together pile of do, with books, PoK, Bazaar, Sci -Fi theme, cats on a moon, ball of crap. It was no longer built as a wonderful immersive world to pull you in, rather built for convenience as a monster killing factory.

Well said.

[Decad]

Design/Raid issues aside, one of the reasons people promote/put down Luclin and pop was because it powers up the unwanted classes epenis big time while those power classes got their epenis screwed big time.