Isn't there a better way to distribute raid loot? If not which is most fair?

[cbozeman]

DKP doesn't reward skill, and never has, and never will. That's it biggest short-coming.

There's a reason all the best WOW guilds (and FF14 guilds for that matter) use loot council; because the best loot needs to be in the hands of the best players if you expect to advance.

That said... you don't have this problem in Project 1999, since you'll be stuck in an expansion for years at a time - maybe forever! So all the baddies can rely on DKP and know they'll eventually get whatever they want.

Subjective loot councils are garbage by the way. SK Gaming did a YouTube interview back in the World of Warcraft Tier 10 raiding days (Icecrown Citadel), where one of their officers was saying, "Perhaps one person stood in something and got hit with it 2, or maybe 3 times in a fight... that would probably disqualify them from getting the loot."

Everything else was expected:

* Expected to be at each raid.
* Expected to be on time.
* Expected to have all consumables ready to go.
* Expected to be pushing max DPS / healing efficiency / tanking.

If you want a truly fair system, you need an objective loot council that scours through the combat log after every fight / during every fight and qualifies / disqualifies people based on their performance. Attendance, etc. should all be a given.

[Valrok]

It sounds like some greedy inner circles have jaded some folks from ever trusting them in other guilds.

[Erydan Ouragan]

I'm not really concerned about loot itself, i'm more concerned about being taken for a bitch.

The way i see it, leaders and officers of raiding guilds are like the CEOs and boards of companies. They go in with this official tone "our distribution system promotes fair use and fairness of the fair while simultaneously offering the best return to ratio on the investment of the investing parties, according to the regulation of actives and blah blah blah".

The reality is that they don't give a fuck. They're in it for themselves and their little clique. They sit in the officer channels, rolling around in platinum, caressing their epics and crowns of rile while laughing at their members behind their backs.

Their end goal is loot and to obtain it, they need more than just their little group of friends, so that's where the members come in. How many of you have ever grouped with the leaders and/or officers? Raiding guilds are often portrayed as teams, when in reality, it's run like a company. You are the workers, they are the bosses. That's why they never hang out with you, group with you, or even talk to you. You're that worker they see passing by when you arrive to clock in for your shift while they're going out for a round of golf.

They hold nothing but contempt and disgust for you at worst, indifference at best. If they could reach their loot goals without you, be absolutely certain that they would never even acknowledge your existence, for their world is limited to themselves and their close friends.

The rest of you are tools, a means to an end.

[zanderklocke]

DKP tends to sort itself out. Obviously, people who show up the most often will have the most points to spend. However, people that don't have as much time can still bank points and get the occasional item. That's how I got my Cloak of Piety and red dragon scales.

However, the bulk of my items were from farming on my own since I can't always log on for a raid.

[Eldon]

Originally Posted by Erydan Ouragan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not really concerned about loot itself, i'm more concerned about being taken for a bitch.

The way i see it, leaders and officers of raiding guilds are like the CEOs and boards of companies. They go in with this official tone "our distribution system promotes fair use and fairness of the fair while simultaneously offering the best return to ratio on the investment of the investing parties, according to the regulation of actives and blah blah blah".

The reality is that they don't give a fuck. They're in it for themselves and their little clique. They sit in the officer channels, rolling around in platinum, caressing their epics and crowns of rile while laughing at their members behind their backs.

Their end goal is loot and to obtain it, they need more than just their little group of friends, so that's where the members come in. How many of you have ever grouped with the leaders and/or officers? Raiding guilds are often portrayed as teams, when in reality, it's run like a company. You are the workers, they are the bosses. That's why they never hang out with you, group with you, or even talk to you. You're that worker they see passing by when you arrive to clock in for your shift while they're going out for a round of golf.

They hold nothing but contempt and disgust for you at worst, indifference at best. If they could reach their loot goals without you, be absolutely certain that they would never even acknowledge your existence, for their world is limited to themselves and their close friends.

The rest of you are tools, a means to an end.

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[Rayzor84]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know I encouraged you to make this thread and all, but you sound super paranoid about inner circles. Loot distribution in IB (sorry Rampage) and TMO, although loot council, goes to who deserves it and put in time. We both have extensive systems to track contribution and the council uses that to make an informed decision on who deserves it. Yes, it's subjective. Yes, it has it's down sides. Yes, you're being overly worried about not getting pixels and that screams loot whore to me which could turn into an amusingly ironic self fulfilling prophecy.

tl;dr: Guilds that lack fair loot practices will get a bad reputation for doing so and be mercilessly ridiculed for it.

I'm not really sure that desiring a piece of gear off hate trash mobs more often than once every 4-6 weeks qualifies as loot whoring.

[Ishbu]

Not to nag, but some of the sentiment in the OP is why all new games are instanced with 100% spawns rates and guarenteed drops for all, because for some reason the idea that investing more time means you get more back isnt fair to a lot of people.

DKP is clearly the best way. If some people cant play as much as others due to other commitments, why on earth should they get equal reward? That doesnt make any sense. If anything, you should be happy that you will have gear goals extending the fun for your character longer than the people who got everything quickly. It is a game you should want to play after all.

[Videri]

As long as all guild members are treated as equals, it is possible to divide loot fairly over time.

You can go "round robin." Suppose a bard item drops. All 4 bards roll and Bard 1 wins the item. Next bard item, the other 3 bards roll and Bard 2 gets an item. Next item, the remaining 2 bards roll; and the 4th item goes to the remaining bard. After that, all 4 /random again, and so on. Or, even better, carry on in the same order. That allows you to continue the even distribution across raids. If Bard 3 doesn't show up to the next raid, he or she gets skipped.

If you show up for more raids, you get to roll more; and over time, you get more loot. If you roll unlucky for long enough, you still eventually get loot, as others will no longer need the items that drop.

Another alternative: the Suicide Kings system.

[Guybrush]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

www.takenguild.com

our DKP system has been going strong now for 2 years

Hmmm, I seem to remember a certain half elf warrior who got all the loot in taken.
I guess that prophet has been lost to us however...

[toolshed]

After playing DKP all through EQ, I had an experience with a "loot council" in my first serious WoW raiding guild. It was awful. The corruption and loot distribution was so much drama all the time, and it just sucked putting in all that work and not knowing if you would be able to get your favorite item.