Do Not Engage: Warriors Vs. PALs/SHDs

[Grod]

Rangers are actually a really versatile class that could bring a lot to a raid if played correctly. The problem with the class was not the class itself, but the fact that the majority of the people playing the Rangers didn't know how to utilize some of the tools that were given to the class properly and the class got a bad reputation because of it.

It was always humorous to me how powerful that class was (even prior to archery) and how bad the classes reputation was. Most people are probably not even aware as to how good the class can be because they never got to experience or raid alongside a skilled Ranger. Kind of a shame really.

[Nakara]

rangers literally have 1 job:

engage the raid boss with /weaponshield and cast as many flame licks / low level snares as you can before it wears off then let the main tank take over with a giant threat lead

[Shabaza]

And whats about the Death Touch Target?

Don't forget this second job of Rangers. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Grod]

Originally Posted by Nakara [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

rangers literally have 1 job:

engage the raid boss with /weaponshield and cast as many flame licks / low level snares as you can before it wears off then let the main tank take over with a giant threat lead

I know some guilds did that but it's definitely inefficient and inferior to simply playing normally because anything you gain in DPS through the threat lead is going to be more then lost by losing the DPS from the Ranger not to mention you then lose the ability for the Ranger to use that weaponshield to save a potential wipe if the tank happened to die. Inferior strategy all the way around. Threat and positioning are something that can be done reliably without the Ranger doing that but of the classes with an avoidance discipline Rangers had the longest one and the best agro mechanics.

A lot of times what happened when a tank died is that either the boss would plow through several DPS which might ruin the chances of success or the next tank would get agro and die before the CH rotation hit him. A good portion of the time when a tank died it led to a wipe and on some encounters the clearing and setting up of the actual boss fight took quite a while so a wipe was very counter productive. Even if it's not 100%, of all the classes, the Ranger is the best class to pull agro and tank the mob while the next tank gets setup after a tank death. Wasting the ability of the Ranger to salvage a wipe after a tank death, which good rangers could pull off with a fairly high success rate, is absolutely asinine from any quality guild. Did guilds do it? Sure they did, but it was still stupid and inferior to using the class correctly.

Moving on, Death Touch logically went to the class that provided the least to the raid encounter which, on many boss encounters, was either the Enchanter after tash or a boxed character.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Grod [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Threat and positioning are something that can be done reliably without the Ranger doing that but of the classes with an avoidance discipline Rangers had the longest one and the best agro mechanics.

We used it on mobs that had the potential to a) kill the initial tank before the first CH even landed if we waited to let the tank get aggro, or b) start wiping clerics if we timed the start of the CH cycle too early before the initial tank could get sufficient aggro. At the time, we knew no other way to do it. Mostly on the AoW/Status of Rallos Zek/Vindicator encounters in Velious, if I recall correctly. I don't remember doing it for anything else, and after Luclin we pretty much saved our /disc timers for Trueshot. Maybe one ranger was designated to save for weaponshield, unless it was AoW/SoRZ/Vind. Again, that was just my guild, and that was in the Velious era. /shrug (side note, reading stories on Alla of people soloing AoW/SoRZ/Vind with their level 9325235 characters makes me weep)

Secondly, you had more than one ranger on raids (or at least we did) with weaponshield ready to save the raid if needed. We didn't start doing massive damage until Luclin, so it wasn't a huge loss if the initial weaponshield ranger went down. Raid was more worried about losing monk/rogue DPS.

[Tenudil]

I think its a combination of taunt not being quite as effective especially at lower levels as it was in classic and hybrids getting things they shouldn't have until later expansions. When i played classic SK's and Pal's seemed to spend the time i was pulling medding up and couldn't reliably keep up a continuous pull cycle. I have found that to not be the case here. They also had significantly less hp's for a while. I haven't played one past level 4 or 5 here but it did seem to me that they had several of the abilities they shouldn't have gotten until later expansions, increased mana/hp pools and reduced spell costs, and the melee timer not being reset. But i may also have been mistaken. Anyone have any insight on what they do or don't have here?

A couple of posts down.
http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum...ead.php?t=3400

Here's the list of major boosts to knight abilities since December of 99, as least as well as I can remember them. It's been a long time, so my order and timing compared to expansions is no longer reliable, but I'll try anyway.

Pre-Kunark:
-Knight HP is given a boost to bring us to a level between that of rogues/rangers and warriors. Previously, a naked level 50 rogue would have more HP than a knight. He still out tanks us, though.

Kunark:
-SK Lifetap progression is altered, so that the level 60 tap is 338 HP, rather than 150.

-Harm touch is given a damage boost post 40, and moved to the lifetap resist table. HT has ever since remained in relatively close
proximity to a high end wizard nuke.

-LOH is given a serious boost in damage healed, approximately doubling it.

-Hybrid mana pools are -greatly- enhanced. First, our mana-per-stat-per-level is set equal to casters, removing the nine level penalty. Second, our spells are set to cost the listed mana cost, not twice it, and in the case of the SK's lifetaps, three times it.

Velious:

-Hybrid /discs are introduced. Rangers and bards win big. Knights don't get much.

-Knight defensive caps are raised from 225 to 252. We can finally out mitigate, but not out dodge, a rogue. Warriors still out dodge, out parry, out riposte, and flat out out avoid and out mitigate us. This is as it should be.

-The Great Two Hander Change. This is described above, but the -real- bonus is a seperate, nearly concurrent change.

-Hybrids are flat out given detrimental spell haste on all dots, stuns, DDs, taps, snares, etc with a casting time of 3.1 seconds or greater, not including items. Further, the act of casting a spell no longer causes 'next melee attack' timer to restart. Previously, wielding a 45 delay weapon meant I would swing 4.5 seconds after my last swing, or 4.5 seconds after finishing my last cast. Now, it means I will swing 4.5 seconds after my last swing, unless I am casting at this time, in which case I will swing immediately after the cast is complete. The timer then starts again at 4.5 seconds. This means that I can cast 'between' melee attacks.

[Grizzl]

Moving on, Death Touch logically went to the class that provided the least to the raid encounter which, on many boss encounters, was either the Enchanter after tash or a boxed character.[/QUOTE]

Why youuu.......i auta.........

My Bind Wound is maxed!! at 100!!. Can definitely help the clerics when
oom.
Any what if someone runs out of food/water? no one is going to want
to waste precious mana summoning. Fishing Skill....... maxxed!!!


Seriously tho, chain rune is a nice spell worth keeping us around for......[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Harrison]

Originally Posted by Grod [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know some guilds did that but it's definitely inefficient and inferior to simply playing normally because anything you gain in DPS through the threat lead is going to be more then lost by losing the DPS from the Ranger not to mention you then lose the ability for the Ranger to use that weaponshield to save a potential wipe if the tank happened to die. Inferior strategy all the way around. Threat and positioning are something that can be done reliably without the Ranger doing that but of the classes with an avoidance discipline Rangers had the longest one and the best agro mechanics.

A lot of times what happened when a tank died is that either the boss would plow through several DPS which might ruin the chances of success or the next tank would get agro and die before the CH rotation hit him. A good portion of the time when a tank died it led to a wipe and on some encounters the clearing and setting up of the actual boss fight took quite a while so a wipe was very counter productive. Even if it's not 100%, of all the classes, the Ranger is the best class to pull agro and tank the mob while the next tank gets setup after a tank death. Wasting the ability of the Ranger to salvage a wipe after a tank death, which good rangers could pull off with a fairly high success rate, is absolutely asinine from any quality guild. Did guilds do it? Sure they did, but it was still stupid and inferior to using the class correctly.

Moving on, Death Touch logically went to the class that provided the least to the raid encounter which, on many boss encounters, was either the Enchanter after tash or a boxed character.

Lawl misinformation

[Bubbles]

When i was levelling my warrior, i simply was lucky to get groups with mages and necros and enchanters and such...

Easiest way to maintain aggro as a warrior : stop grouping with rogues and rangers. /thread.

Seriously, this whole argument is only even relevant if you are in a melee-heavy XP group. As for shammys, if you're in a group where the shaman is needing to slow every mob, your dps is shameful.

As for raiding, healing a warrior far more efficient, but you're still going to want paladins for blind and SKs for aggro-generation too. And you can tank with any of the 3 thats actually logged in during raid times.