ASOIAF / Game of Thrones (SPOILERS INSIDE)

[holahouze]

Originally Posted by AzzarTheGod [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I view Alliser Thorne on the show as more of a misguided tragic figure. On the other hand, forgiving him doesn't seem to make sense.

Not sure where I got this sense of faux sympathy for this misguided, small minded, oh I got it. It may be because he represents "old school" blood and bone ideals, and is very principled and knightly. He believes he is doing whats right with a sense of duty, seniority, and honor.

They made sure we knew Stannis was a desperate evil madman before justice was served. Alliser Thorne still hasn't gotten that look how evil he is treatment. Thorne is more like Ned Stark. Jon killing a knight in revenge doesn't seem to fit his character, interested to see how Jon and Thorne's first interaction ends up.

I don't think Thorne is like Ned at all. The show has altered his character some by incorporating some of Bowen Marsh character. I think Martin writes him as a bitter, mean-spirited asshole. Always took a dump on Jon. Would have had Sam killed or maimed if he had his way. Allied with Slynt. Being at the Wall was his punishment for being on the losing side and he embodies what is wrong with the NW. But, that's just my opinion. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[AzzarTheGod]

Originally Posted by holahouze [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think Thorne is like Ned at all. The show has altered his character some by incorporating some of Bowen Marsh character. I think Martin writes him as a bitter, mean-spirited asshole. Always took a dump on Jon. Would have had Sam killed or maimed if he had his way. Allied with Slynt. Being at the Wall was his punishment for being on the losing side and he embodies what is wrong with the NW. But, that's just my opinion. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I hear you. The show takes the mean-spirited bitter asshole thing and somehow it came off as "mean-for-your-own-good willfully ignorant narrow minded old school asshole" for me personally.

Has Thorne ever done anything unbecoming of a knight or his vows at the wall? Forget the personality traits, the doubting and hen-pecking he has done to Jon Snow and his friends.

What I mean is, holahouze, is I can't recall a smoking gun scene (Jon Snow's death can be seen as controversial, there was a vote among the Watch on it wasn't there?) where Alliser Thorne does anything chaotic-evil in the vein of what you would expect from someone who deserves an extrajudicial cold revenge killing. Jon Snow did break his vows afterall, in some peoples opinion. By no means does this justify murder to me, but this is Martin's world.

Being an asshole, and seeing his duty and vows differently than Jon "Liberal Heart" Snow, just doesn't do it for me. They should have showed some real unbecoming of a knight example of what a conniving dirtbag he is, in my opinion.

The show made sure to get Stannis ready for a nice cold extrajudicial revenge execution by turning on his family, and Thorne wasn't really there for me yet, as he is still hiding behind his vows and acting in defense of the Watch. This is why I am excited to see how it plays out. A sticky situation to be sure!

[holahouze]

Originally Posted by AzzarTheGod [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I hear you. The show takes the mean-spirited bitter asshole thing and somehow it came off as "mean-for-your-own-good willfully ignorant narrow minded old school asshole" for me personally.

Has Thorne ever done anything unbecoming of a knight or his vows at the wall? Forget the personality traits, the doubting and hen-pecking he has done to Jon Snow and his friends.

What I mean is, holahouze, is I can't recall a smoking gun scene (Jon Snow's death can be seen as controversial, there was a vote among the Watch on it wasn't there?) where Alliser Thorne does anything chaotic-evil in the vein of what you would expect from someone who deserves an extrajudicial cold revenge killing. Jon Snow did break his vows afterall, in some peoples opinion. By no means does this justify murder to me, but this is Martin's world.

Being an asshole, and seeing his duty and vows differently than Jon "Liberal Heart" Snow, just doesn't do it for me. They should have showed some real unbecoming of a knight example of what a conniving dirtbag he is, in my opinion.

The show made sure to get Stannis ready for a nice cold extrajudicial revenge execution by turning on his family, and Thorne wasn't really there for me yet, as he is still hiding behind his vows and acting in defense of the Watch. This is why I am excited to see how it plays out. A sticky situation to be sure!

I get you. Let's stick to show (as best i can). Up until the stabbing, i guess one could see Thorne as a grumpy uncle type. I took him to be more dangerous or treacherous than that, but see your point. But, surely, not like Ned.

As to the assassination attempt, i don't recall any meeting or vote on it - if that's what you're implying. it was a cabal, brought on my fear and loathing at Jon bringing wildings through the wall. It was insurrection and murder. Tricking Jon to come out of his room and carrying out the deed in the dark, on the down low. Not chivalrous or becoming of a knight (not that the show holds knights to be as such). And, after Hardhomme, it was just flat out stupid.

I expect chaos at the wall after Jon's stabbing. But, since the show appears to have turned it into a stealth move, I'm not sure. What i am sure of is, Jon returns and is fully aware of who stabbed him. Maybe magic happens, like BR or Bran visiting him while he's "out", so maybe he arises totally out of LC mode and in Jon Stark/Targaryen mode and onto other things. I just don't see him heading south without confronting the stabbing.