Aftermath eating a full 10 days raid suspension

[VANVEM]

[QUOTE=FatMice;2234542]

Originally Posted by VANVEM [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dude you are delusional. We are telling you we want to work with the rest of the server to make it fair for all; to at least make a clear underling rule set. Otherwise we will continue to operate under server precedence.

I think I need to start writing some sort of disclaimer that these are my beliefs based on my discussions with my guildmates and leadership and that I am in way representing the officer core of Aftermath.

Dude! Read what I am typing and understand it, I have (for the sake of this discussion) conceded the fact that Detoxx, Pint, and the rest of aftermath are all sincere in what they are saying. and that they may VERY WELL have the best intentions here,but......

BUT YOU BROKE THE MOTHER FUCKING RULES! that fact hasn't changed, and in the most disrespectful way possible, if in fact you wanted to change things what they SHOULD have done is brought this very scenario up in the summit, they had the chance and if you go back and listen to it now, after the fact. it is blatantly obvious that they already had this planned. IF they had it would have been addressed, everyone of the GL's would have made damn sure they had. But by doing it this way, Pint is saying "see, I warned you"

Yep thats a great way to get people to trust in your motives, if Aftermath wants to Prove to the entire server that they mean what they are saying the Detoxx should approach the other GL's and offer a concession for stalling before a ruling comes down and ask that they all come back to the table to work out some real rules

[Nibblewitz]

The $50,000 question is: "Who prompted Sirken to go into Kael and deliver the news to CSG?"

Did Sirken collude with Aftermath? Or did Aftermath notice CSG in Kael, then trick Sirken into handing down this ruling?

[FatMice]

[QUOTE=VANVEM;2234563]

Originally Posted by FatMice [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dude! Read what I am typing and understand it, I have (for the sake of this discussion) conceded the fact that Detoxx, Pint, and the rest of aftermath are all sincere in what they are saying. and that they may VERY WELL have the best intentions here,but......

BUT YOU BROKE THE MOTHER FUCKING RULES! that fact hasn't changed, and in the most disrespectful way possible, if in fact you wanted to change things what they SHOULD have done is brought this very scenario up in the summit, they had the chance and if you go back and listen to it now, after the fact. it is blatantly obvious that they already had this planned. IF they had it would have been addressed, everyone of the GL's would have made damn sure they had. But by doing it this way, Pint is saying "see, I warned you"

Yep thats a great way to get people to trust in your motives, if Aftermath wants to Prove to the entire server that they mean what they are saying the Detoxx should approach the other GL's and offer a concession for stalling before a ruling comes down and ask that they all come back to the table to work out some real rules

Detoxx approached CSG on giving Statue loot to them. But I guess you didn't read those posts or care. We probably would have conceded State if it wasn't a repop; you know where for 4 hours we are racing to get to every mob we can. So with that mindset we needed Statue down to get to AoW.

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And the rest of us believe that you (your guild) wrote yourselves a loophole in the rule that you knew you were going to intentionally break on the next repop. Which goes entirely against what you're saying.

What? Now you think we are whispering in Sirkens ear not tomake the rules clearer while publicly advocating for stricter rules?

[VANVEM]

[QUOTE=FatMice;2234580]

Originally Posted by VANVEM [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Detoxx approached CSG on giving Statue loot to them. But I guess you didn't read those posts or care. We probably would have conceded State if it wasn't a repop; you know where for 4 hours we are racing to get to every mob we can. So with that mindset we needed Statue down to get to AoW.



What? Now you think we are whispering in Sirkens ear not tomake the rules clearer while publicly advocating for stricter rules?

ok Truth time, i will admit that the gesture to CSG was a good one, and its why i said i didnt think a 10 day ban was in order, but the spiritin which this little lesson was concieved, and executed is not in the spirit of what was trying to be accomplished

so again, if you mean what you say, do a concession, and ask everybody back to the table. Then negotiate in good faith to make the server a better place for all (including yourselves) then you can call yourselves the saviors of the server, but if you don't nobody will believe a damn thing you say

[Maner]

[QUOTE=VANVEM;2234563]

Originally Posted by FatMice [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dude! Read what I am typing and understand it, I have (for the sake of this discussion) conceded the fact that Detoxx, Pint, and the rest of aftermath are all sincere in what they are saying. and that they may VERY WELL have the best intentions here,but......

BUT YOU BROKE THE MOTHER FUCKING RULES! that fact hasn't changed, and in the most disrespectful way possible, if in fact you wanted to change things what they SHOULD have done is brought this very scenario up in the summit, they had the chance and if you go back and listen to it now, after the fact. it is blatantly obvious that they already had this planned. IF they had it would have been addressed, everyone of the GL's would have made damn sure they had. But by doing it this way, Pint is saying "see, I warned you"

Yep thats a great way to get people to trust in your motives, if Aftermath wants to Prove to the entire server that they mean what they are saying the Detoxx should approach the other GL's and offer a concession for stalling before a ruling comes down and ask that they all come back to the table to work out some real rules

In regards to the FTE races, it is basically a stall according to our rules as soon as one guild drops FTE and that same guild then clears to the mob. As the rule states you don't get an FTE message if you are not ready to engage the mob right then. The stalking rule is moot as the race up rule set superseded it.

[JurisDictum]

I'm a member of aftermath but have been a little ghosty lately, so I'm a bit removed from the current drama. Some advice ill give guilds trying to break into the NToV/Kael scene:

1) Sirken has been accused of bias by players in every top guild on the server. IB, TMO, Rampage, Aftermath whatever. The only bias this guy has is a tendency to keep the status quo and listen to the party with the most hard evidence. This tends to favor the currently most powerful guild(s).

2) Its not as easy to create rigged rules as you think. EQ is a surprising complicated game, evidenced by how guilds continue to innovate in this 17 year old game filled with fanatics that really should know everything by now. I remember we thought we were being cleaver by allowing instant FTEs by trackers vs Rampage...it didn't work out very well.

3) This server's raid scene will never be casual friendly. The staff has historically been very clear that there needs to be a place in the server for no-lifers that want to play 12 hours everyday...its classic.