White people...

[Raev]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I posted it to dispell the myth the America's policies are no. 1 in social mobility. Why is England even worse if it's about homogeneity?

England is quite heterogenous now with all the Pakistanis.

Originally Posted by JurisDictum

Don't believe the articles that look at first year earnings only. Overtime, college educated make far more money.

But is this because they went to college?

[JurisDictum]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

England is quite heterogenous now with all the Pakistanis.


But is this because they went to college?

So your saying the reason they all get paid more, is because they are all that much better at working than everyone else and care that much more than everyone else?

Or do you think maybe employers are more likely to select employees with degrees over employees without them for promotions?

[Nihilist_santa]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So your saying the reason they all get paid more, is because they are all that much better at working than everyone else and care that much more than everyone else?

Or do you think maybe employers are more likely to select employees with degrees over employees without them for promotions?

Its because knowledge is marketable and to attain that knowledge takes sacrifice and determination. The degree is to confirm that you have proven your knowledge to a high standard. Where as anyone can come in and BS about their experience like Chest and claim their warehouse job is actually financial analysis. With a large labor pool you have to employ stricter criteria when you choose to invest in an employee who will probably jump ship when something better comes along.

Your whole premise is mired in jealousy apparently. Who are we to determine why an employer promotes or pays an employee. You feel that achievement should not be based on merit? Trying to equalize outcomes rather than opportunities? Some degrees truly are worthless but its not societies fault you made a critical mistake at character creation.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So your saying the reason they all get paid more, is because they are all that much better at working than everyone else and care that much more than everyone else?

Or do you think maybe are more likely to select employees with degrees over employees without them for promotions?

There are all sorts of complex interactions here. So yeah, I think motivated people with high IQ will make a lot of money regardless of whether or not they go to college. But more than that, you just posted about how America does not have much social mobility. The son of Rich Banker X has access to job connections regardless of whether or not he spends the requisite four years of chemical and sexual debauchery at one of our nations finer institutions of learning. Then on top of that, I'm much more convinced of the value of a degree in Engineering or CS than one in Cultural Marxism aka Women's Studies or History or whatever.

I just don't understand how you can have such strongly held beliefs about complex systems with no evidence.+

[Aesop]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just don't understand how you can have such strongly held beliefs about complex systems with no evidence.+

That's just how white people be [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[JurisDictum]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are all sorts of complex interactions here. So yeah, I think motivated people with high IQ will make a lot of money regardless of whether or not they go to college. But more than that, you just posted about how America does not have much social mobility. The son of Rich Banker X has access to job connections regardless of whether or not he spends the requisite four years of chemical and sexual debauchery at one of our nations finer institutions of learning. Then on top of that, I'm much more convinced of the value of a degree in Engineering or CS than one in Cultural Marxism aka Women's Studies or History or whatever.

I just don't understand how you can have such strongly held beliefs about complex systems with no evidence.+

These studies are controlled for soci-economics. We think its because of signaling. Obviously some of it has to do with correlation. But it is self-perpetuating. People with degrees are assumed to be more ambitious and more capable at seeing things through. So when you get that peice of paper those things are projected on to you whether they fit or not.

Obviously going to score you entry jobs that others can't. That being said, science (the best entry jobs) have the worst long term earnings. But that doesn't mean Philosophy is the same as Women Gender Studies (the worst degree you can get for employment imo). Philosophy majors actually make quite a bit compared to other humanities. It is probably a mix of

1) the inherent signal value of a 4 year degree

2) Spending lots of time thinking critically and writing...your brain does get better at these things with practice.

3) Smart people tend to be attracted to philosophy.

But I see no need for "your degree is not worth it" arguments. Because they don't bare out statistically or even anecdotally if you ask people iRL that hire a lot. A lot of times they will say "I don't what degree it is -- as long as it is sort of related."

[Nihilist_santa]

I will even backtrack and say the worthless degrees do have worth just not to employers. You have to be able to make the opportunities for yourself. If you study Women's Studies like Raev mentioned then you better damn well be prepared to teach or write if you expect to make money using your degree. The expectation that you should "win" just for participating is a result of pushing egalitarianism but the realities are different.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

These studies are controlled for soci-economics.

Do you have studies that control for IQ?

[JurisDictum]

It's debatable if IQ tests test anything but how good you are at IQ tests.

[Raev]

I earlier suggested that smart, hardworking people go to college. I'm not a huge believer in IQ, but the fact is some people are a lot smarter and hard working than others. How do you propose to sort out these effects?