Russians Behind DNC attack!

[Lune]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is no control group, ergo you cannot know the cause inductively. We know the earth has gotten warmer over the past 150 years, we just don't know why.

We do know why, you're just denying the evidence because of a scientifically illiterate fixation on a control group.

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The other molecules that were placed into the machine that produced a different pattern.

That's not a control group. A control group is when you are performing an experiment, and you have samples/subjects where you do not change the variable, in order to isolate the independent/dependent variables, and causality.

They peeked inside a molecule and observed a helical structure. That's it. It told them nothing about how it got that way, and observing other molecular shapes told them nothing about DNA helices other than not all molecules are helix shaped.

What actually tells us about the cause of the helix is a massive series of experiments and observations (some of which do have control groups) dealing with molecular orbital theory.

Anthropomorphic climate change is also based on a mountain of experimentation and observation that gives us a high confidence (>90%) that humans have contributed to the warming.

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So if you agree that the atmosphere is a tremendously complex, chaotic system with many positive and negative feedback loops, why are you confident in our ability to predict it?

Years of science education and seeing unfathomably complex systems modeled in high detail. DNA replication, transcription, and translation is extremely complex, but we figured it out.

Ultimately it goes back to those two premises I stated. They are extremely well supported by the evidence, and they have the unanimous (>97%) support of the world's scientists, and I think it's more likely that the world's scientists are right about this than that they are all collaborating in a worldwide conspiracy.

There's also the fact that the people who reject climate change tend to also be the people who reject evolution (using similar mental gymnastics to what you're doing), and happen to belong to the party of oil and coal. And we've been through this exact ordeal in the past regarding CFC's and lead additives in gasoline: people who have something to gain out of the status quo trying to muddy the waters.

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am a pretty big environmentalist.

Being an environmentalist and a libertarian is like being a pedophile and a babysitter.

The environment is the #1 reason I'm such a statist.

[Raev]

I'm going to skip the multiple appeals to authority, straw men, and sexual insults that compose 95% of your post, and merely note that your increasing use of logical fallacies is a sign that you are in an area that you don't understand.

Originally Posted by Lune

They peeked inside a molecule and observed a helical structure. That's it. It told them nothing about how it got that way, and observing other molecular shapes told them nothing about DNA helices other than not all molecules are helix shaped.

I think perhaps I was too flippant and you read me too literally. The point is that a scientist who works with DNA has a high degree of control over the environment. They can shoot x-rays at it, add chemicals, or whatever else, and then measure the reaction and compare it with other chemicals going through the same process.

Think about it this way: if it was possible to create in a lab 100 copies of the Earth, half of which with more CO2 and half without and the ones with CO2 had higher temperatures, there would be no global warming debate. And before you say there is no debate, why are you are unable to do more than regurgitate the opinion of climate scientists? If you could do this experiment, a child of 10 could understand.

Instead, we have to proceed deductively. We know how some of the pieces of the puzzle work, and we can make some guesses about how they fit together, but it's not nearly as convincing, because as I stated earlier the atmosphere is a complex system and a chaotic one as well.

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm going to skip the multiple appeals to authority, straw men, and sexual insults that compose 95% of your post, and merely note that your increasing use of logical fallacies is a sign that you are in an area that you don't understand.


I think perhaps I was too flippant and you read me too literally. The point is that a scientist who works with DNA has a high degree of control over the environment. They can shoot x-rays at it, add chemicals, or whatever else, and then measure the reaction and compare it with other chemicals going through the same process.

Think about it this way: if it was possible to create in a lab 100 copies of the Earth, half of which with more CO2 and half without and the ones with CO2 had higher temperatures, there would be no global warming debate. And before you say there is no debate, why are you are unable to do more than regurgitate the opinion of climate scientists? If you could do this experiment, a child of 10 could understand.

Instead, we have to proceed deductively. We know how some of the pieces of the puzzle work, and we can make some guesses about how they fit together, but it's not nearly as convincing, because as I stated earlier the atmosphere is a complex system and a chaotic one as well.

Slippery slope demand for an experiment disguised as specificity which you're clinging to. Rather nihilistic logic train you're on too.

[Lune]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think perhaps I was too flippant and you read me too literally.

No I think perhaps you were trying to use terms like 'Control Group' that you don't understand to discredit a body of science that I'm now sure you lack the knowledge and state of mind to evaluate properly. Having control over the environment in a lab setting is not required to develop strong evidence for a hypothesis (even though there are numerous aspects, many small puzzle pieces of climate science that we can control in a laboratory).

[Jarnauga]

I think Paris Hilton has a good chance of being the 2024 GOP candidate. She's a successful business leader, cares about moral values, and has a great program:
[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Ahlgador

Slippery slope demand for an experiment disguised as specificity which you're clinging to. Rather nihilistic logic train you're on too.

I don't believe in our ability to simulate systems as complex and chaotic as the weather. So the only way to proceed with confidence is through experiment, which we are not in a position to do. This isn't nihilistic, but rather realistic. There are plenty of systems that aren't complex and chaotic where both inductive and deductive reasoning work very well.

Also Lune, I don't understand why you seem totally unable to grasp the simple concept that one cannot determine causal relationships by pure observation, as one can never rule out a hidden joint cause, but your mind seems only capable of generating a stream of irrelevant straw men and insults. Your coworkers must find you delightful.

[AzzarTheGod]

tab

[Jarnauga]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't believe in our ability to simulate systems as complex and chaotic as the weather. So the only way to proceed with confidence is through experiment, which we are not in a position to do. This isn't nihilistic, but rather realistic. There are plenty of systems that aren't complex and chaotic where both inductive and deductive reasoning work very well.

Also Lune, I don't understand why you seem totally unable to grasp the simple concept that one cannot determine causal relationships by pure observation, as one can never rule out a hidden joint cause, but your mind seems only capable of generating a stream of irrelevant straw men and insults. Your coworkers must find you delightful.

Raev: 97% of the world scientists agree on human made global warming. 97% of people way smarter than you and me. Now i'm sure you think you're smarter than that, but let me tell you: you're not.

[AzzarTheGod]

Originally Posted by Nihilist_santa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Guys whatever you do dont investigate the mysterious death of this DNC staffer. He was robbed but nothing was taken. It was clearly russian hackers and not a DNC leaker.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/lo...386316391.html

Hillary spoke on it and said gun control can fix it.

As far as the circumstances of the death go...not all that impressed. Robbery happens, victim fights back and refuses to respect the jooks. Gets killed for not respecting the jooks, and because the robber needed to win the fight. Robber runs off because guns are loud. Nothing gets stolen.

Its also possible he bumped into someone. Acts like a douche on his phone, refuses to apologize. Gets into a scuffle over not showing respect to a banger, banger kills him because hes struggling to win the fight. Banger kills him for touching him.

Last scenario that's possible, is the victim refused the jooks, got into a scuffle and broke free after a protracted scuffle, robber kills him on principle (2 bullets to the back) while he is running. Again, for not respecting the jooks which is part of street code.

DC is a murder capital, its incredibly dangerous place to live if you aren't making 120k+ a year and can afford a nice place.

He was living in complete poverty fair to say.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Jarnauga [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think Paris Hilton has a good chance of being the 2024 GOP candidate. She's a successful business leader, cares about moral values, and has a great program:
[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I will vote for Paris Hilton